Shopping for a card again (3090, 4080, 7900 XT/XTX)

pavel said:
Huh? The 6800 and 6900 are two of the worst cards in the chart.
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That's the V-synced 60hz 1080p chart. Which is something AMD has been relatively worse at, for awhile. Its not only the newest RDNA3 cards.

If you look at the main power usage chart for "gaming", where they don't V-sync and the cards are allowed to fully utilize: you will see the efficiency of the 6800 (if you understand that the 6800 is as good or better than the 3070 ti. And not a lot worse than the 3080).

And the 7900 XTX spanks the 3090 and 3090 ti in performance and power usage-----when you are actually using the card for what it probably should be used for.
7900 XT also beats the 3090 on power usage, for similar or better performance.

1692478163896.png


As for why someone would test V-sync at 60 hz?


Well, a lot of people still have 60hz displays, for one.

But also, 60 fps is considered the standard for gameplay. So, if someone is interested in keeping heat and power usage down, they might like to know how much power/heat they can save, if they limit their games to 60fps/60hz. Summers are hot these days and many people don't have good Air Conditioning. Even with AC, a small bedroom or office can heat up noticeably, after playing a game for an hour, with a computer which is using 300 - 400 watts, etc.


**P.S. even with Freesync/Gsync, you should still V-sync to your refresh rate. There's a big article about it on Blur Busters.
 
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chameleoneel said:
As for why someone would test V-sync at 60 hz?


Well, a lot of people still have 60hz displays, for one.

But also, 60 fps is considered the standard for gameplay. So, if someone is interested in keeping heat and power usage down, they might like to know how much power/heat they can save, if they limit their games to 60fps/60hz. Summers are hot these days and many people don't have good Air Conditioning. Even with AC, a small bedroom or office can heat up noticeably, after playing a game for an hour, with a computer which is using 300 - 400 watts, etc.
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Also TV gaming. A non-trivial number of people have 60Hz TVs, or a setup that only supports 60Hz. While basically any high-end TV these days is 120Hz, or perhaps even 144Hz, that's only true in the high end, and only recently. If you buy a lower spec TV, they are still often 60Hz, and you don't have to go that many years back and even higher spec ones were often 60Hz.

That aside, you can well have a setup where you can't do 120Hz with your TV even if it supports it. I have a RTX4090 and a S95B and there was a period where I was gaming on it at 4k60 because there was no good way to make it work higher. My receiver was older, didn't do HDMI 2.1. I could plug straight into the TV, but in addition to some signaling issues with the fiber optic HDMI cable, the eARC on the TV had issues and didn't work with all the surround sound channels, and there were frequent issues. So going through the receiver to the TV was the way to go, but only 60Hz. I eventually replaced the receiver (and the fiber optic cable) and life is good now, but that's yet another component that has to be replaced so I can see how people, particularly those targeting lower end cards, would say "nah, I'm good bro" and just do 60.
 
chameleoneel said:
That's the V-synced 60hz 1080p chart. Which is something AMD has been relatively worse at, for awhile. Its not only the newest RDNA3 cards.

If you look at the main power usage chart for "gaming", where they don't V-sync and the cards are allowed to fully utilize: you will see the efficiency of the 6800 (if you understand that the 6800 is as good or better than the 3070 ti. And not a lot worse than the 3080).

And the 7900 XTX spanks the 3090 and 3090 ti in performance and power usage-----when you are actually using the card for what it probably should be used for.
7900 XT also beats the 3090 on power usage, for similar or better performance.

View attachment 591680

As for why someone would test V-sync at 60 hz?


Well, a lot of people still have 60hz displays, for one.

But also, 60 fps is considered the standard for gameplay. So, if someone is interested in keeping heat and power usage down, they might like to know how much power/heat they can save, if they limit their games to 60fps/60hz. Summers are hot these days and many people don't have good Air Conditioning. Even with AC, a small bedroom or office can heat up noticeably, after playing a game for an hour, with a computer which is using 300 - 400 watts, etc.


**P.S. even with Freesync/Gsync, you should still V-sync to your refresh rate. There's a big article about it on Blur Busters.
Click to expand...
Oh, okay. I was wondering - because, I would probably move to, min. 120 hz refresh rate (VRR - up to 120?) 4K TV.

The 3090 Ti does look awful - I was considering a 3090 but not 3090 Ti - that is one reason - the other, 2nd card owners selling that card seem to demand/request way over value (imho) - I've seen sellers wanting 4070 Ti money or 7900 XT $$.
I don't want to haggle (if that's their starting price). The 7900 XTX is probably the best AMD value (used card prices aren't bad) - but, I did have reservations/concerns about the power consumption.

The 4080 appears to be the most efficient card? Similar values to 3070 Ti and 6900 XT power consumption for a lot more performance - tough to beat that?
 
Sycraft said:
Also TV gaming. A non-trivial number of people have 60Hz TVs, or a setup that only supports 60Hz. While basically any high-end TV these days is 120Hz, or perhaps even 144Hz, that's only true in the high end, and only recently. If you buy a lower spec TV, they are still often 60Hz, and you don't have to go that many years back and even higher spec ones were often 60Hz.

That aside, you can well have a setup where you can't do 120Hz with your TV even if it supports it. I have a RTX4090 and a S95B and there was a period where I was gaming on it at 4k60 because there was no good way to make it work higher. My receiver was older, didn't do HDMI 2.1. I could plug straight into the TV, but in addition to some signaling issues with the fiber optic HDMI cable, the eARC on the TV had issues and didn't work with all the surround sound channels, and there were frequent issues. So going through the receiver to the TV was the way to go, but only 60Hz. I eventually replaced the receiver (and the fiber optic cable) and life is good now, but that's yet another component that has to be replaced so I can see how people, particularly those targeting lower end cards, would say "nah, I'm good bro" and just do 60.
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I had a friend who switched to 120hz from 60Hz (and went through the same) - but, they managed to get the 120 VRR (but, had to run through hoops - still isn't happy). I don't have a stereo receiver yet, though - so, I am dreading this change/hassle.

For now, I'm using 60Hz, too.
 
pavel said:
I had a friend who switched to 120hz from 60Hz (and went through the same) - but, they managed to get the 120 VRR (but, had to run through hoops - still isn't happy). I don't have a stereo receiver yet, though - so, I am dreading this change/hassle.

For now, I'm using 60Hz, too.
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I picked up an Onkyo TX-RZ50 and it does the trick. VRR, 4k120, ALLM, HDR, etc all work just fine going from the card to the receiver to the TV.
 
reading this thread as I'm about to pull the trigger. 4080 prices in europe are nuts
I'm getting a Sapphire Nitro+ 7900XTX for 1077 euros. Closest 4080 is about 200 euros more
think I'll get the AMD. If I don't like it...I can change
 
Seems like it’s a waste of time to recommend anything to anyone these days. They already make their decisions then come ask for validation. Do what you feel is best. No thread can help you if mind is already made up.
 
TheOne&OnlyZeke said:
reading this thread as I'm about to pull the trigger. 4080 prices in europe are nuts
I'm getting a Sapphire Nitro+ 7900XTX for 1077 euros. Closest 4080 is about 200 euros more
think I'll get the AMD. If I don't like it...I can change
Click to expand...
Where in Europe? The 4080 reduced in price - a little - but, just for the brand, Zotac - and I think some Gigabyte Eagle models - also, only at certain stores - some are open box. I dunno if I can save up - should I just wait for a long time? :) I can afford a used 3090 soon - the 4080 I prefer although the vram is a bit less. Also, even if I get a used 4080 - most of the choices are Zotac (again), Asus Tuf - and possibly an FE - and mostly, I'd be avoiding tax.

KickAssCop said:
Seems like it’s a waste of time to recommend anything to anyone these days. They already make their decisions then come ask for validation. Do what you feel is best. No thread can help you if mind is already made up.
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Are you talking to anyone in particular? Or just bitter about some of the replies to your posts (for some reason)? I dunno about others but, I've 'liked' a number of your posts.

Anyways, for me, personally, for my use case - it seems Nvidia is the way to go (even though I'd like to get a 7900 XTX) but, I do more than gaming - and the 3090 and 4080 - is pretty reliable for Compute, Blender, Video Editing (DR) and heck, even AI.
The 7900 XTX might be okay for those - but, the jury is still out - I mean, it's kind of risky to go with that one - plus, every site I go to - has quite a few ppl who complain about coil whine, overheating, noise - and then the crashes/stutters and other issues - this includes Linux use.

P.S. It's still expensive here, too - and few 2nd hand options.
 
Why all of this measurbating on power draw?, just enjoy the card and game or AI on, folks. Too much obsession here if you can afford a 4 figure VC you can afford the utility bill.
 
pavel said:
Where in Europe? The 4080 reduced in price - a little - but, just for the brand, Zotac - and I think some Gigabyte Eagle models - also, only at certain stores - some are open box. I dunno if I can save up - should I just wait for a long time? :) I can afford a used 3090 soon - the 4080 I prefer although the vram is a bit less. Also, even if I get a used 4080 - most of the choices are Zotac (again), Asus Tuf - and possibly an FE - and mostly, I'd be avoiding tax.


Are you talking to anyone in particular? Or just bitter about some of the replies to your posts (for some reason)? I dunno about others but, I've 'liked' a number of your posts.

Anyways, for me, personally, for my use case - it seems Nvidia is the way to go (even though I'd like to get a 7900 XTX) but, I do more than gaming - and the 3090 and 4080 - is pretty reliable for Compute, Blender, Video Editing (DR) and heck, even AI.
The 7900 XTX might be okay for those - but, the jury is still out - I mean, it's kind of risky to go with that one - plus, every site I go to - has quite a few ppl who complain about coil whine, overheating, noise - and then the crashes/stutters and other issues - this includes Linux use.

P.S. It's still expensive here, too - and few 2nd hand options.
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If you're intending to do AI work at all... I think there are some ways to do it on AMD, but Nvidia is much easier for it. Here's a self-reported chart for Stable Diffusion (which is what I use my GPU for, as far as AI work goes):
https://old.reddit.com/r/StableDiff...d_gpus_and_iterationssecond_based_on/jk7n210/
I advise you to go ahead and grab Nobara as your Linux installation if you want to do Stable Diffusion, as Linux performs much faster than Windows for it, and Nobara sets it up pretty easily. You can just reserve a small portion of an SSD for Nobara and it will work just fine for it.

GPUs are kind of in a weird place right now. You can get a used 3080 Ti (which is what I have) and get pretty decent performance for not too much money, but it will probably feel like a sidegrade to your old 3080 because it's only a little faster (~3090 speeds) and doesn't really have any extra VRAM. I fell back to mine because I already had it. You don't have a GPU. The 3090 would be a... slight performance upgrade. Mainly you'd just get more VRAM. For the 4XXX series, the 4070 Ti is again pretty much a slight upgrade to the 3080, but basically at some less wattage (~280 vs ~320), and supports newer featuresets. The 4080 spikes in price (~1.5x the price of the 4070 Ti?), but kind of not enough in performance, imo, and only 16GB VRAM at most. The 4XXX series is kind of weirdly 4070 Ti (but only if on sale) or 4090... or bust, imo. AMD is 7900 XTX priced at around 850 USD if you can find it... or bust. It would be a large increase in raster performance, and about the same as a 3080 Ti on RTX (and the 24GB VRAM, though idk if it can utilize it), which feels like a decent deal... but keep in mind you're missing all of the extra software and RTX perf. Otherwise... nothing. At least nothing that wouldn't be worse than your previous 3080. Honestly? It'd be a slight upgrade, but I would look for a good deal on a 4070 Ti. It would save some money on electricity due to its really low TDP (dunno about Canada elec prices) and use that towards your next card. Also enjoy newer featuresets from the 40 series. Or a used 3090 for more VRAM. Otherwise if this isn't AI use, 7900XTX is good because worst case scenario you can just turn off RTX in any game and suddenly it's probably almost as smooth as the 4090.

I'm using USD prices, but I assume Canadian prices are somewhat comparatively in the same ballpark.
 
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You are going to smoke those 4080s like i did my A64 FX build vs. P4 EE garbage before the C2D/Q era.

Enjoy (y)
 
StoleMyOwnCar said:
If you're intending to do AI work at all... I think there are some ways to do it on AMD, but Nvidia is much easier for it. Here's a self-reported chart for Stable Diffusion (which is what I use my GPU for, as far as AI work goes):
https://old.reddit.com/r/StableDiff...d_gpus_and_iterationssecond_based_on/jk7n210/
I advise you to go ahead and grab Nobara as your Linux installation if you want to do Stable Diffusion, as Linux performs much faster than Windows for it, and Nobara sets it up pretty easily. You can just reserve a small portion of an SSD for Nobara and it will work just fine for it.

GPUs are kind of in a weird place right now. You can get a used 3080 Ti (which is what I have) and get pretty decent performance for not too much money, but it will probably feel like a sidegrade to your old 3080 because it's only a little faster (~3090 speeds) and doesn't really have any extra VRAM. I fell back to mine because I already had it. You don't have a GPU. The 3090 would be a... slight performance upgrade. Mainly you'd just get more VRAM. For the 4XXX series, the 4070 Ti is again pretty much a slight upgrade to the 3080, but basically at some less wattage (~280 vs ~320), and supports newer featuresets. The 4080 spikes in price (~1.5x the price of the 4070 Ti?), but kind of not enough in performance, imo, and only 16GB VRAM at most. The 4XXX series is kind of weirdly 4070 Ti (but only if on sale) or 4090... or bust, imo. AMD is 7900 XTX priced at around 850 USD if you can find it... or bust. It would be a large increase in raster performance, and about the same as a 3080 Ti on RTX (and the 24GB VRAM, though idk if it can utilize it), which feels like a decent deal... but keep in mind you're missing all of the extra software and RTX perf. Otherwise... nothing. At least nothing that wouldn't be worse than your previous 3080. Honestly? It'd be a slight upgrade, but I would look for a good deal on a 4070 Ti. It would save some money on electricity due to its really low TDP (dunno about Canada elec prices) and use that towards your next card. Also enjoy newer featuresets from the 40 series. Or a used 3090 for more VRAM. Otherwise if this isn't AI use, 7900XTX is good because worst case scenario you can just turn off RTX in any game and suddenly it's probably almost as smooth as the 4090.

I'm using USD prices, but I assume Canadian prices are somewhat comparatively in the same ballpark.
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I agree and acknowledge all that - the 3090 is not much of an upgrade - it does provide 24gb (so way more vram - I had 10gb) but, I shouldn't have to pay more than I did (initially) for the 3080 - so, there's that. The power consumption is higher - approx. 3060W, right? I think this is pretty close to a 7900 XTX's albeit without the performance - considerably less but still not awful.
I also, kinda wanted to upgrade to the next gen - it makes more sense - the only reason to get the 3090 is because of cost/price - if I decide or am forced into it - because of how much more $$ I need and it's a lot unless I compare to a 4070 Ti - the problem there is you're back to low vram - 12gb.

These are the price differences in Canada:

zotac 4070 Trin $980
(used: $900)

Zotac 4080 Trin $1400
(used: $1300)

Zotac 4090 Trin $2099
(used: $1700)

Prices for used cards (lowest) - *except for 4070 Ti - new*
4070 Ti: $980 -> $720 USD (new card)*
4080: $1300 -> $955 USD
4090: $1700 -> $1249 USD
I have approx. $800 CAD so far.

It's not AI use - but, I thought AI might be a 'major thing' eventually/in the future. It's mostly for video editing - Davinci Resolve - and Blender (a bit).
I intend to mostly use Windows - but, on occasion, Linux - as I get into it again. I'm reading about how difficult/limited options - it is to modify settings like fan curves/speeds, power limits and undervolting (really limited) - so, I might be using Windows (a lot), unfortunately. Especially, gaming - which is '3rd on the list' and not a priority but I will do it sometimes. I have some gamer friends.

The games I played, the 3080 *barely* hit 60fps (sometimes dipped to high 50s) @ 4K res. I think it was on Ultra (maybe experimented on High - but, I don't remember and didn't keep track). 60 Hz Tv.

Also, my 12700K might be a bottleneck for some of these gpus - 4090, at least? The rest of the gpus - there should be no concern about that all?

My Corsair RM850x is a bit low wattage for a 4090 or 7900 XTX - but, I wasn't anticipating or suspecting I'd be able to get a 4090 (the 7900 XTX, too - used ones are much reduced prices - I notice the odd one come up for $1k CAD, on occasion).
 
So for reference, this is the data that I'm using for conclusions. It is Tom's Hardware, but they provide a lot of charts, tables, and data. I also think they're using a 12900k, which might be particularly relevant to you as you are using the same gen: https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/gpu-hierarchy,4388.html
pavel said:
Also, my 12700K might be a bottleneck for some of these gpus - 4090, at least? The rest of the gpus - there should be no concern about that all?
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In some locations, even my 3080 Ti is slightly bottlenecked by my 5950X in Hogwarts. That being said, it was solely my opinion and decision to return my 4090 because of that game, because I personally thought it might be a sign of things to come. When I'm recommending options to others, I don't take my "hot takes" into consideration. That said, the 4080 would also bottleneck in that game, and any similarly coded game. The 7900XTX will not, due to some odd driver difference. In other games, such as Cyberpunk, it was a complete non-issue.

pavel said:
zotac 4070 Trin $980
(used: $900)

Zotac 4080 Trin $1400
(used: $1300)

Zotac 4090 Trin $2099
(used: $1700)

Prices for used cards (lowest) - *except for 4070 Ti - new*
4070 Ti: $980 -> $720 USD (new card)*
4080: $1300 -> $955 USD
4090: $1700 -> $1249 USD
I have approx. $800 CAD so far.
Click to expand...

Well, you probably don't want a Zotac either way. But yeah as you can see, the 4080 is in the ballpark of about 50% more expensive, but is only about 25%ish better than the 4070 Ti on average for FPS, depending on game. Except for the used market, where I guess you weren't able to locate a 4070 Ti that was actually used, as I understand it.
The problem with the 3090 is I believe Nvidia is not bringing DLSS 3.0 to the 30 series? Unless you get the 4090, you're going to be forced to use DLSS within probably 1 year, I estimate, at most, at whatever the next generation game will be, especially at 4k. You probably want DLSS 3.0 rather than the 2.0 that iirc the 30 series is stuck with.

pavel said:
The games I played, the 3080 *barely* hit 60fps (sometimes dipped to high 50s) @ 4K res. I think it was on Ultra (maybe experimented on High - but, I don't remember and didn't keep track). 60 Hz Tv.
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But you mentioned 4k. I believe the memory bus on the 4070 Ti might be an issue at 4k (or at least I've read some reports of that being the case). The Nvidia product stack is just priced like shit, honestly. The 4090 literally has twice the performance of the 4070 Ti on 4k and twice the VRAM (and bus width for said VRAM), and it's pretty much twice the price, so this is the first time that the only card that's actually worthwhile in a product stack has been the freaking "Halo-level" card, especially if you're considering 4k. But you can't afford that, so your only option might be hoping that 4080 drops very low somehow, or you just get more money. Alternatively... there's AMD, but only if you're satisfied without Nvidia's features, AI performance, and Ray Tracing (though it does at least match a 3090 in that... which sucks). This is why I didn't bother with 4k. I'm satisfied with 3440x1440. 4k is just a stupid pixel count increase.

But it might be fine with DLSS.
 
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pavel said:
Oh, okay. I was wondering - because, I would probably move to, min. 120 hz refresh rate (VRR - up to 120?) 4K TV.

The 3090 Ti does look awful - I was considering a 3090 but not 3090 Ti - that is one reason - the other, 2nd card owners selling that card seem to demand/request way over value (imho) - I've seen sellers wanting 4070 Ti money or 7900 XT $$.
I don't want to haggle (if that's their starting price). The 7900 XTX is probably the best AMD value (used card prices aren't bad) - but, I did have reservations/concerns about the power consumption.

The 4080 appears to be the most efficient card? Similar values to 3070 Ti and 6900 XT power consumption for a lot more performance - tough to beat that?
Click to expand...

Power consumption is a really minor factor to consider in my opinion, at least if you live in a market where electricity is relatively inexpensive. Generally, the primary reason to consider it is PSU size and heat, unless you live in a market where electricity prices are insane like they are in many places in Europe. Otherwise, the difference in operating costs for most people might only be around a few dollars per year. If prices of two competing options are close then sure, pick the more efficient one, but comparing, say, the 4080 vs the 7900 XTX well, what's the 7900 XTX going to cost you to operate more per year? Maybe $10-$15? Are you going to spend $200 more just based on the 4080 using less electricity at that point? You might if your added cost was $60/year because electricity is super expensive where you live, but probably not at $10. You'll spend more on that buying coffee on the way to work.
 
HockeyJon said:
Power consumption is a really minor factor to consider in my opinion, at least if you live in a market where electricity is relatively inexpensive. Generally, the primary reason to consider it is PSU size and heat, unless you live in a market where electricity prices are insane like they are in many places in Europe. Otherwise, the difference in operating costs for most people might only be around a few dollars per year. If prices of two competing options are close then sure, pick the more efficient one, but comparing, say, the 4080 vs the 7900 XTX well, what's the 7900 XTX going to cost you to operate more per year? Maybe $10-$15? Are you going to spend $200 more just based on the 4080 using less electricity at that point? You might if your added cost was $60/year because electricity is super expensive where you live, but probably not at $10. You'll spend more on that buying coffee on the way to work.
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Good points. I am wondering about power limiting, undervolting and fan control though - since the 7900 xtx - high power consumption can equal - noise? If I want to control those - it's doable in Windows - but, afaik - not so much in Linux - with the newer 7900 series - unfortunately. There should be support one of these days but still a concern.

However, on the positive side - I am seeing ads for used 7900 xtx cards - for good prices - most are reference cards though - some ppl 'swear' (lol) that it doesn't have the junction/hot spot problem etc. The prices (no tax) are around the same as a new 7900 xt. That's the lowest I've seen it.

Also - mixed reports on AI/Stable Diffusion - there's some indication this series is pretty decent. AMD will probably invest in AI (meaning considerably) - I dunno if that applies to my wants - but, it can't hurt. The 7900 XTX has got good scores in the software I will use - Davinci Resolve/video editing - although, some concern about encoding/decoding - although AV1 is supported. Also, some new data/testing out of Blender - when HIP-RT is on - the score is pretty decent (hip-rt doesn't work in Linux yet - most of the 'slowest' support progress is in Linux, ironically).

The 'used' prices are pretty good - and I found 4 cards for sale today - that's the most so far. I think ppl are selling and upgrading to 4090s or just need $$. A used 7900 XTX would still be more than a used 3090 but not by much - $200 or so - but, still far less than a 4080. Just saying.
 
pavel said:
Good points. I am wondering about power limiting, undervolting and fan control though - since the 7900 xtx - high power consumption can equal - noise? If I want to control those - it's doable in Windows - but, afaik - not so much in Linux - with the newer 7900 series - unfortunately. There should be support one of these days but still a concern.

However, on the positive side - I am seeing ads for used 7900 xtx cards - for good prices - most are reference cards though - some ppl 'swear' (lol) that it doesn't have the junction/hot spot problem etc. The prices (no tax) are around the same as a new 7900 xt. That's the lowest I've seen it.

Also - mixed reports on AI/Stable Diffusion - there's some indication this series is pretty decent. AMD will probably invest in AI (meaning considerably) - I dunno if that applies to my wants - but, it can't hurt. The 7900 XTX has got good scores in the software I will use - Davinci Resolve/video editing - although, some concern about encoding/decoding - although AV1 is supported. Also, some new data/testing out of Blender - when HIP-RT is on - the score is pretty decent (hip-rt doesn't work in Linux yet - most of the 'slowest' support progress is in Linux, ironically).

The 'used' prices are pretty good - and I found 4 cards for sale today - that's the most so far. I think ppl are selling and upgrading to 4090s or just need $$. A used 7900 XTX would still be more than a used 3090 but not by much - $200 or so - but, still far less than a 4080. Just saying.
Click to expand...

Noise will be a function of the cooler on the particular card you’re looking at more than anyone else. Most of these heatsinks now are 3 slot+, so yes, you’ll have a card that kicks out a lot of heat, but with a properly designed heatsink, you won’t have a whole lot of noise to deal with, at least not as much as you’d think. Some of these are as little as 30 dBA under load based on reviews I’ve read, which will never bother you, particularly if you’re wearing headphones. In reviews, I’ve even seen the reference card is just under 40 dBA, although I’d personally get a good partner model on sale as it’ll almost certainly be better.

My take, at least for gaming:

1) If money’s no object and you want the best of the best, the 4090 is the only choice.

2) If you’re 1440p and below and want the best ray tracing performance and/or DLSS, go Nvidia. If you don’t care about that, save money and go AMD for the better average raster performance dollar for dollar.

3) For 4K gaming, ray tracing is still too taxing for anything below a 4090, so I would choose a 7900 XTX personally in that scenario for the lower cost and higher raster performance than the 4080.

4) I’m not buying a card today with less than 16GB VRAM, unless you want to upgrade again next generation. Less than 16GB is already showing limitations in some titles.

5) Pay attention to your specific use case. Nvidia might be better overall in a lot of cases, but if you’re a big COD player, for example, then AMD absolutely smokes them in that game. The opposite will be true in other titles.

What will be interesting to me is that AMD’s ray tracing performance in UE5 is comparable to Nvidia’s, which might be an indication that their performance on that going forward will be better than expected. Current implementations relying on leveraging RT cores will obviously favour Nvidia. In any case, I think we’re still a generation or two away from ray tracing being genuinely useable, at least at ultra high resolutions.
 
HockeyJon said:
Noise will be a function of the cooler on the particular card you’re looking at more than anyone else. Most of these heatsinks now are 3 slot+, so yes, you’ll have a card that kicks out a lot of heat, but with a properly designed heatsink, you won’t have a whole lot of noise to deal with, at least not as much as you’d think. Some of these are as little as 30 dBA under load based on reviews I’ve read, which will never bother you, particularly if you’re wearing headphones. In reviews, I’ve even seen the reference card is just under 40 dBA, although I’d personally get a good partner model on sale as it’ll almost certainly be better.

My take, at least for gaming:

1) If money’s no object and you want the best of the best, the 4090 is the only choice.

2) If you’re 1440p and below and want the best ray tracing performance and/or DLSS, go Nvidia. If you don’t care about that, save money and go AMD for the better average raster performance dollar for dollar.

3) For 4K gaming, ray tracing is still too taxing for anything below a 4090, so I would choose a 7900 XTX personally in that scenario for the lower cost and higher raster performance than the 4080.

4) I’m not buying a card today with less than 16GB VRAM, unless you want to upgrade again next generation. Less than 16GB is already showing limitations in some titles.

5) Pay attention to your specific use case. Nvidia might be better overall in a lot of cases, but if you’re a big COD player, for example, then AMD absolutely smokes them in that game. The opposite will be true in other titles.

What will be interesting to me is that AMD’s ray tracing performance in UE5 is comparable to Nvidia’s, which might be an indication that their performance on that going forward will be better than expected. Current implementations relying on leveraging RT cores will obviously favour Nvidia. In any case, I think we’re still a generation or two away from ray tracing being genuinely useable, at least at ultra high resolutions.
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The thing about the AMD reference model cooler is-------the temps are REALLY good. You can easily turn the fans down, enjoy a large improvement in noise, and still have good temps. And also enjoy cards which are much smaller than virtually all other 7900 XT/XTX.
 
chameleoneel said:
The thing about the AMD reference model cooler is-------the temps are REALLY good. You can easily turn the fans down, enjoy a large improvement in noise, and still have good temps. And also enjoy cards which are much smaller than virtually all other 7900 XT/XTX.
Click to expand...

They also corrected the vapour chamber problem that plagued earlier ones in production as far as I'm aware, so it's probably a fine choice. Pound for pound though, it's not the quietest solution either way if that matters to you, although one thing I did see with the reference model that was kind of nice is the direct USB-C connection on board. Not sure why most of the board partners didn't go with that option since it's convenient for VR gamers.
 
HockeyJon said:
They also corrected the vapour chamber problem that plagued earlier ones in production as far as I'm aware, so it's probably a fine choice. Pound for pound though, it's not the quietest solution either way if that matters to you, although one thing I did see with the reference model that was kind of nice is the direct USB-C connection on board. Not sure why most of the board partners didn't go with that option since it's convenient for VR gamers.
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Pound for pound------you can't get another XTX or 4080 as small. And if you manually control the fans, it should at least be middle of the pack for noise.

Actually, Asus does have the ProArt 4080, which is quite small. But the more common OC model is usually about $1400. The non-OC is about $1250. But, can be difficult to get. Temps reportedly aren't great on them. around 80c in a case.
 
chameleoneel said:
Pound for pound------you can't get another XTX or 4080 as small. And if you manually control the fans, it should at least be middle of the pack for noise.

Actually, Asus does have the ProArt 4080, which is quite small. But the more common OC model is usually about $1400. The non-OC is about $1250. But, can be difficult to get. Temps reportedly aren't great on them. around 80c in a case.
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Are you building a SFF PC? I’m normally cool with whatever size provided it fits in my case, but some of the cards today are gargantuan!
 
HockeyJon said:
Are you building a SFF PC? I’m normally cool with whatever size provided it fits in my case, but some of the cards today are gargantuan!
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I dunno about him....but, I am using a somewhat large ATX case. :) I am using my 3080 Tuf as the standard for noise - it was really quiet - kinda worried about a card that is noisier. The thing is, it was quiet enough - that I didn't use a fan curve or any power limiter program for it. I was thinking about looking into it - but, it didn't need it. I think with a 4080, 4090, 7900 XTX (and for sure, a 3090), I'd want to do that.

Unfortunately, I don't think the reference 7900 XTX was benchmarked (or was it?) to check the new (fixed?) ones - for temps and noise? I don't need the smaller footprint but it's nice to have - and they probably have good resale value - as they're often required for smaller cases. I just thought the 3rd party/AIB brands will have 'upgraded' coolers (or should) and would be even quieter - although, I wonder if it's quiet enough without 3rd party programs to create fan curves, lower power etc. I guess I have nothing to compare to - unless someone has compared to the Tuf 3080 or 3090 series - at least, mine was really quiet.

My current case is a P500 - afaik - virtually every one of these cards will fit - the question is, how much of it do you want getting close to the front fans? :)
 
pavel said:
I dunno about him....but, I am using a somewhat large ATX case. :) I am using my 3080 Tuf as the standard for noise - it was really quiet - kinda worried about a card that is noisier. The thing is, it was quiet enough - that I didn't use a fan curve or any power limiter program for it. I was thinking about looking into it - but, it didn't need it. I think with a 4080, 4090, 7900 XTX (and for sure, a 3090), I'd want to do that.

Unfortunately, I don't think the reference 7900 XTX was benchmarked (or was it?) to check the new (fixed?) ones - for temps and noise? I don't need the smaller footprint but it's nice to have - and they probably have good resale value - as they're often required for smaller cases. I just thought the 3rd party/AIB brands will have 'upgraded' coolers (or should) and would be even quieter - although, I wonder if it's quiet enough without 3rd party programs to create fan curves, lower power etc. I guess I have nothing to compare to - unless someone has compared to the Tuf 3080 or 3090 series - at least, mine was really quiet.

My current case is a P500 - afaik - virtually every one of these cards will fit - the question is, how much of it do you want getting close to the front fans? :)
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At stock fan curves, Most of the larger 7900 XT and XTX, will be quiter than the reference model. But, not necessarily cooler. As They often use their larger heatsinks and fans to soak up heat, with lower fan speeds. Some of them are legitimately as cool, however. While also being quieter.

Techpowerup measured (on an open test bench) 58c on the core and 74c on the hotspot, for their reference model XTX and their XT. 37.2 db noise for the XT. The 7900 XT pulse was 69c core and 82c hotspot. . But, 28.7b decibels (larger fans, slightly lower RPM. Overall seems to be a better fan design for noise, but not airflow, since the RPM difference isn't big.)

I suspect the reference card could be manually limited on fan speed, to match that 11 degree higher temp on the core, and enjoy a much quieter experience.

Built into a case, I would expect some of the larger cards with larger fans, to stay relatively cooler and quieter.
 
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pavel said:
I dunno about him....but, I am using a somewhat large ATX case. :) I am using my 3080 Tuf as the standard for noise - it was really quiet - kinda worried about a card that is noisier. The thing is, it was quiet enough - that I didn't use a fan curve or any power limiter program for it. I was thinking about looking into it - but, it didn't need it. I think with a 4080, 4090, 7900 XTX (and for sure, a 3090), I'd want to do that.

Unfortunately, I don't think the reference 7900 XTX was benchmarked (or was it?) to check the new (fixed?) ones - for temps and noise? I don't need the smaller footprint but it's nice to have - and they probably have good resale value - as they're often required for smaller cases. I just thought the 3rd party/AIB brands will have 'upgraded' coolers (or should) and would be even quieter - although, I wonder if it's quiet enough without 3rd party programs to create fan curves, lower power etc. I guess I have nothing to compare to - unless someone has compared to the Tuf 3080 or 3090 series - at least, mine was really quiet.

My current case is a P500 - afaik - virtually every one of these cards will fit - the question is, how much of it do you want getting close to the front fans? :)
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Still deciding? lol

Power usage idle, 7900XTX Merc 310, AMD previous to 23.8.1 drivers had my 4K 12bit, 120hz C2 at around 30w, now it is back up to 60w but now listed as board power vice GPU power. So it maybe the same just more indicative of actual card power. Unless I open settings which can then go down to 30w??? Other times with settings open, ~60w. With dual monitor configuration, 3440x1440p 60hz and the C2 -> above 100w, that has never changed in any driver release I tested.

Driver stability, outstanding! Except when loading drivers. WTF! 6900 with the 23.8.1 -> black screen and reboots after 3 tries, clean drivers using AMD utility (not DUD) drivers installed. 7900XTX, black screen but next install attempt with option not to include AMD in installation data, installed successfully. For me after installation they run great. Interface wise, which is important for control of my card is just night and day better with AMD drivers. For monitor options as in running 3440x1440p, 1440p, in-between 4K and those etc. Important here, not scaling to monitor but putting that resolution into a 4K space -> AMD drivers has no problems where my 3090 would lock up, black screen or just not do it. I can run let say a 3440x1440p resolution, native pixel per pixel from game output to 4K monitor (of course black boarders but with OLED pure black it works rather well) which duplicates my 3440x1440p monitor actual physical size for some outstanding options on my 43" C2 for games, ultra wide gaming, performance reasons.

Performance wise, with 5800X3D is really good and makes my 3090 seem kinda anemic. With FSR 3 and subsequent driver implementation to allow fluid motion in any DX 11 and 12 games has peaked my interest. Won't know until I tried it.

Noise wise, I have a 3 slot cooler card, a noisier option and I don't really hear it unless I really try and OCing, OCing can make it more noticeable when running at 460w board power.

At 4K, HDR 120hz monitor, game performance is just plain outstanding, use Chill and Freesync to get very consistent frame times making a consistent reaction time experience with mouse and keyboard. Jumping to 200fps then to 100fps as an example with action, for me, causes a difference in timing making my game play suffer. Nice and consistent is something to behold plus keeping the FPS in VRR is perfect.

DLSS vs FSR, I prefer not to use either unless game has no real AA, bad TAA or the performance needs to be improved. Anyways DLSS hands down due to motion artifacts that FSR has more of.

As for RT, any RT game I have played since getting the 7900XTX is faster with the 7900XTX then the RX 3090. Games optimize for AMD or both AMD/Nvidia perform well, games optimize for just Nvidia type RT, mostly older games may not perform as well is my answer.

VR has been fixed it seems to perform really well now, still have to test more in applications.

Main reasons I got the 7900XTX over the RX 4080 was due to DP 2.1, Price and amount of Vram. I keep cards rather long and this card will most likely see a new monitor sometime in the future. Also with DP2.1, with an adaptor, you could have 4 HDMI 2.1 outputs as an option. Nvidia can keep their RX 4080, only Nvidia card I think maybe close to being reasonable for the price is the Rx 4090. Just my opinion, there can be very good reasons dealing with applications that makes the Rx 4080 a better purchase for a user.

As for Linux, been awhile, about time I test drive again -> AMD worked flawless, with Steam, freesync etc. just you loose out with the many driver options with the Settings panel in Windows not being available in Linux. Unless AMD or someone else put those options back in.
 
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pavel said:
I dunno about him....but, I am using a somewhat large ATX case. :) I am using my 3080 Tuf as the standard for noise - it was really quiet - kinda worried about a card that is noisier. The thing is, it was quiet enough - that I didn't use a fan curve or any power limiter program for it. I was thinking about looking into it - but, it didn't need it. I think with a 4080, 4090, 7900 XTX (and for sure, a 3090), I'd want to do that.

Unfortunately, I don't think the reference 7900 XTX was benchmarked (or was it?) to check the new (fixed?) ones - for temps and noise? I don't need the smaller footprint but it's nice to have - and they probably have good resale value - as they're often required for smaller cases. I just thought the 3rd party/AIB brands will have 'upgraded' coolers (or should) and would be even quieter - although, I wonder if it's quiet enough without 3rd party programs to create fan curves, lower power etc. I guess I have nothing to compare to - unless someone has compared to the Tuf 3080 or 3090 series - at least, mine was really quiet.

My current case is a P500 - afaik - virtually every one of these cards will fit - the question is, how much of it do you want getting close to the front fans? :)
Click to expand...

ASUS TUF was the 3080 I was interested in, but the 10GB VRAM buffer gave me pause, and then the market went haywire shortly after. I think it was the best bang for buck cars in the series though, that was a good buy.

There was a benchmark here for the reference 7900 XTX. These guys are saying 39.2 dBA.

https://www.techpowerup.com/review/amd-radeon-rx-7900-xtx/36.html
 
KickAssCop said:
When you have walls of text and repeated posts about AMD supremacy (aka justification of people purchases), you know you want to buy the Nvidia product.

Get a 4080. Enjoy life. Better yet get a 4090 and YOLO it.
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yeah F that 4090 housefire
 
KickAssCop said:
When you have walls of text and repeated posts about AMD supremacy (aka justification of people purchases), you know you want to buy the Nvidia product.

Get a 4080. Enjoy life. Better yet get a 4090 and YOLO it.
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Right. But, looking at used/2nd hand sites - some 3090s FS are pretty good prices - well, relatively speaking - virtually 3080 prices, some of them. A 4080 will cost 2x as much if not a bit more - used.
If I went with a 3090 - the Asus Tuf, MSI X Trio and Nvidia FE - are good choices, right? The 3090 Ti is over priced or very rarely for sale.

7900 XTX cards have sold - the only ones left are MBA/reference - and about $300 more than the 3090s I find - however $200 less than the 4080 - if this is confusing - it's like this for $$ - 3090 < 7900 XT/XTX < 4080 < 4090.

I can just wait for the $$ to go down for the 40 series cards but that will probably take a while. :) For brands of the 40 series - they're mostly Zotacs.... :-{
 
I want to revisit this - this question - should I start a new thread?

I want opinions on picking between a USED 4080 VS a (used) 7900 XTX - the 7900 XTX used is in my budget ballpark and I found a used 4080 I could afford - but, it sold on the 2nd day.

I was going to start a new thread - just want to make sure it's okay/acceptable?
 
pavel said:
I want to revisit this - this question - should I start a new thread?

I want opinions on picking between a USED 4080 VS a (used) 7900 XTX - the 7900 XTX used is in my budget ballpark and I found a used 4080 I could afford - but, it sold on the 2nd day.

I was going to start a new thread - just want to make sure it's okay/acceptable?
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It's up to you. Nothing wrong either way with making a new one or using this one :).
 
GoldenTiger said:
It's up to you. Nothing wrong either way with making a new one or using this one :).
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I just want to make sure I'm following the rules. :)

It's just that some things have changed - prices and my wants/priorities - and perspective. Not to mention, the timing, obviously.
 
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