Inverse: A Highly Versatile Steam-Box Design

[iFreilicht]

Where did the air-slots go in the renderings?

 

[esplin2966]

Where did the air-slots go in the renderings?

You're talking about intake and exhaust holes of the survey concept art right? It might be a bit difficult to see, but the lines on the front and side of the rendering of the case are holes.

 

[kierwest]

I find this case to sharp and militaristic. Hopefully, you can make a v2.0, but make is much smoother. Round off corners.

 

[esplin2966]

Update 3/10/2015:

Merged design 1 and 2. It's a whole new design now! Please check OP and let me know what you guys think!

 

[fusionxr]

You'll need a custom riser if you're going to have the gpu positioned like that.

Wouldn't it be better if you had a riser card instead and have the gpu fans facing upwards? The fans would get more air and it would keep the costs down too.

I think you need some irregularities in the vent holes, maybe something like this:

ooooooooooooooooo
.oooooooooooooooo
ooooooooooooooooo
.oooooooooooooooo
ooooooooooooooooo

 

[esplin2966]

You'll need a custom riser if you're going to have the gpu positioned like that.

Wouldn't it be better if you had a riser card instead and have the gpu fans facing upwards? The fans would get more air and it would keep the costs down too.

I think you need some irregularities in the vent holes, maybe something like this:

ooooooooooooooooo
.oooooooooooooooo
ooooooooooooooooo
.oooooooooooooooo
ooooooooooooooooo

I think we'll need a PCIe riser cable of at least 18cm in length to have the GPU positioned that way. I believe 20cm PCIe riser cables can be bought, so I don't think I would necessarily need to customize it. Unless I'm not understanding what you mean by customize?

I do agree that I can save some money by using a PCIe riser card, which I like. However, my main issues with a PCIe riser card are:

1) It's hard to get exactly the right height without customizing. In a case with 70mm of height, being off by 5mm can mean being able to fit less components.

2) PCIe riser cards generally require an extra PCIe extension thing to work (The top part of: http://www.quietpc.com/images/products/hfx-pcix16.jpg). If you don't have that part, the PCIe bracket on the GPU will overlap with the motherboard's i/o shield. Having that part adds a useless 1cm section in the middle of the case, which I don't like because it's wasted space.

I also kinda like the fact that the top and front part has no exhaust/intake holes. I think that gives it a slicker look

Why would the fans get more air when the GPU is facing up vs down?

I completely agree about having some irregularities in the intake/exhaust holes. I'm also not sure if I want to just have "holes". Other shapes will probably look nicer. I will be working this out with my designer

 

[SaperPL]

I like the new look, however looking at those renders breaks my head thinking in inverse. You could simply show a render with see through the cover or rotate it into installation position.

Also why is there access to the back side of motherboard and gpu, from the top? You could do it without making additional top cover detachable.

 

[Urelure]

Nice that someone aims for a case that pleases those who aren't willing to compromise on features in going SFF. Though I would personally prefer to remove the entire PSU+2,5"+ODD section and put the PSU where the 3,5" stack is for reduced size, this is already being done, so no need for everyone to follow this route. A few general points though:
1 - Not really sure if I am sold on the ODD slot being all the way to the left like it is now, though it doesn't really look like there is room to move the ODD further right. Is machining it from the edge like this cheaper in any way?
2 - I think it would look more balanced if the power button was centered in height in relation to the front panel. Or maybe this is due to you considering point 3.
3 - Have you considered the bulk of the connections and wires on the power button in relation to the 2,5" stack located right behind it? Were you thinking Vandal Switch?
4 - I see what you are going for with the solid top and front, but since there is usually a lot more room above a unit like this than below it in a media rack, I do think airflow would benefit from the entire thing not being inverse I have no idea to what degree this actually matters though.

 

[Lakai129]

Design seems like its coming along. Those renders though are a mess with the white on white.

 

[fusionxr]

I think we'll need a PCIe riser cable of at least 18cm in length to have the GPU positioned that way. I believe 20cm PCIe riser cables can be bought, so I don't think I would necessarily need to customize it. Unless I'm not understanding what you mean by customize?

I do agree that I can save some money by using a PCIe riser card, which I like. However, my main issues with a PCIe riser card are:

1) It's hard to get exactly the right height without customizing. In a case with 70mm of height, being off by 5mm can mean being able to fit less components.

2) PCIe riser cards generally require an extra PCIe extension thing to work (The top part of: http://www.quietpc.com/images/products/hfx-pcix16.jpg). If you don't have that part, the PCIe bracket on the GPU will overlap with the motherboard's i/o shield. Having that part adds a useless 1cm section in the middle of the case, which I don't like because it's wasted space.

I also kinda like the fact that the top and front part has no exhaust/intake holes. I think that gives it a slicker look

Why would the fans get more air when the GPU is facing up vs down?

I completely agree about having some irregularities in the intake/exhaust holes. I'm also not sure if I want to just have "holes". Other shapes will probably look nicer. I will be working this out with my designer

You need about 25mm of space where the gpu connects to the riser. I cant really make out how much space there actually is from the renders. 20mm of wasted space vs 1cm. Your call.

I presume the case will have tall feet, in which case airflow shouldnt be too much of a concern. The warm air can escape out the side and rise up naturally, displacing the cooler air. You should consider vents running the entire length of the sides too.

That front needs to be more discreet. I'd have the power button at the edge of the odd slot on the left hand side.

I like the design, but 400mm+ is too much for me.

 

[Canyouseeitnow]

I don't agree that the case should be upside down. It would likely require some real world testing to see the difference in cooling on right side up or upside down. Main issue with upside down is you need fairly tall feet to allow fresh air to come in, which causes the overall profile size of the case to be larger thus opposing the design purpose of a small case.

 

[esplin2966]

Hey everyone, I'm on an international flight so I can't give an in-depth response to everyone just yet. Once I get home I will reply more thoroughly. Let me respond to the 2 general concerns:

1) Hot air rises. Will the fact that the case interior is inverted have a negative impact on the cooling?

Here is an article that does real world testing aimed at addressing this question:

http://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/Vertical-vs-Horizontal-Case-Cooling-89/

I believe that the results of the article basically states that the effects of hot air rising is significantly outweighed by the pressure produced by fans, making it a negligible factor in determining the cooling within a case.

2) How high does the case have to be raised off the ground in order for the cooling to be effective?

I don't know the answer to this. What I will do is conduct a systematic test with my current PC (the case is a minibox m350) and post the results. What I plan to do is invert the PC, then determine the temperature at idle and load as I incrementally increase the amount I raise the case by.

 

[esplin2966]

Update 3/25/2015:

1) Made the renders black with white background so that it's easier to look at.

2) Added feet to the render.

3) Added a FAQ section that answers some of the concerns people had regarding the inversion design.

4) Linked to a study I did on bottom air intake and case feet height in the FAQ. Here is the link again for convenience: http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1856732

There will be a big update coming soon, including major design changes in both the interior and exterior.

 

[esplin2966]

Hey everyone, quick update and a quick question. Right now, I have the exterior of the case designed as 2 pieces that come together, like this:

However, since nothing can be manufactured perfectly, there will be a small slit between the 2 pieces. So my question is simple: Does it bother you?

 

[SaperPL]

Dude - use JPEG's!

Are you making this slit so huge because if you made it fit sides it wouldn't come together perfectly? It's quite a problem to make the faces come together.

 

[esplin2966]

Dude - use JPEG's!

Are you making this slit so huge because if you made it fit sides it wouldn't come together perfectly? It's quite a problem to make the faces come together.

What's wrong with BMPs?

I'm making the slit pretty big on the renders intentionally so people can actually see it lol. I'm not the greatest at renders and my designer is away, so I needed some way to make it visible.

Yeah, making faces come together is hard. If people don't mind the slit, then manufacturing can be cheaper probably. We're asking manufacturers right now.

 

[theGryphon]

How are the two panels attach to each other? I think if you give some info on that, it would ease people's minds... well, at least it would mine

 

[esplin2966]

How are the two panels attach to each other? I think if you give some info on that, it would ease people's minds... well, at least it would mine

Actually, they're not attached to each other. They're both attached separately to a skeleton in the middle. We have a few ways in mind, including using screws, PEM fasteners, etc., but the exact method will have to be decided after we know if people care about the slit

 

[theGryphon]

Alright, that explains it. I guess as long as, once attached, the panels are not moving with respect to each other, it should be fine. Renders most of the time exaggerate the visuals, so seeing in person would've helped. That space should be around 1mm, correct?

 

[esplin2966]

Alright, that explains it. I guess as long as, once attached, the panels are not moving with respect to each other, it should be fine. Renders most of the time exaggerate the visuals, so seeing in person would've helped. That space should be around 1mm, correct?

Yeah, it's going to be around 1mm. I think the slit can be filled up with some rubber seals, which also help damp out vibrations/noise.

 

[EdZ]

If the inner frame can be painted you can make the gap a detailing feature, exposing the inner frame along a continuous looping path around the case.

 

[fusionxr]

Hey everyone, quick update and a quick question. Right now, I have the exterior of the case designed as 2 pieces that come together, like this:



However, since nothing can be manufactured perfectly, there will be a small slit between the 2 pieces. So my question is simple: Does it bother you?

I thought you got rid of the front vent holes?

Also, PM'd you.

 

[iFreilicht]

If the inner frame can be painted you can make the gap a detailing feature, exposing the inner frame along a continuous looping path around the case.

Yeah I think that would be quite the idea.

I like the new design for the hole patterns, that looks pretty mesmerising

 

[esplin2966]

If the inner frame can be painted you can make the gap a detailing feature, exposing the inner frame along a continuous looping path around the case.

Oh damn, that IS a good idea. It will take some work to do it right, but I think it could be a great feature. Gonna speak with my designer about this, thanks!

I thought you got rid of the front vent holes?

Also, PM'd you.

Yeah, we got rid of it. But then with the current design the power button can only be put on the side, so now both the front and the top is completely smooth, which actually looks kinda weird, so we added some holes as decoration and GPU exhaust.

Yeah I think that would be quite the idea.

I like the new design for the hole patterns, that looks pretty mesmerising

Thanks! I think it'll stand out more if I make it a bigger size difference between the bigger and the smaller holes.

 

[esplin2966]

Update 4/11/2015, please see OP.

Here is a quick summary:

1) Exterior design render posted. Interior layout is complete as well, but is in the process of being rendered. Will update renders as they come.

2) The new interior layout can accommodate 12" dual-slot graphics card, 240mm aio water cooler, and possibly both 3.5" and 2.5" drives.

3) Dropped support for slim slot-loading ODD.

4) We are looking into getting a prototype made!

 

[esplin2966]

Update 4/12/2015, please see OP.

Summary:

Added a brief introductory blurb at the beginning.

Added renders for the interior.

Let me know what you guys think!

 

[iFreilicht]

New renderings are looking good, I love the versatility! Really looking forward to the new prototype as well, this is coming along just nicely.

 

[esplin2966]

New renderings are looking good, I love the versatility! Really looking forward to the new prototype as well, this is coming along just nicely.

Thanks! Finding a prototyping company is a bit of an issue, since we didn't do any prior preparation for it. We have been focused on finding the best manufacturer, but completely forgot that we need someone for the prototyping stage too...

 

[darksable]

I'm very interested in seeing what prototyping does to this thing.

I worry about the airflow, honestly - I think that with the way it's set up, it's going to get really dusty rather quickly.

 

[esplin2966]

I'm very interested in seeing what prototyping does to this thing.

I worry about the airflow, honestly - I think that with the way it's set up, it's going to get really dusty rather quickly.

Are you concerned about the airflow or the dust build-up? They're a bit different.

I'm doing a test to answer some questions I have about airflow myself. Expect the test results up next week.

As for dust, I'm wondering if I should provide dust filters or just have people install their own. What do you think?

 

[iFreilicht]

Are you concerned about the airflow or the dust build-up? They're a bit different.

I'm doing a test to answer some questions I have about airflow myself. Expect the test results up next week.

As for dust, I'm wondering if I should provide dust filters or just have people install their own. What do you think?

I think it depends on what dust filters you can provide. If you can supply magnetic dust filters like some LianLi cases have them, ship them with the case. If you're only able to put regular filters in that are mounted on the fan mounting holes, don't.

 

[esplin2966]

I think it depends on what dust filters you can provide. If you can supply magnetic dust filters like some LianLi cases have them, ship them with the case. If you're only able to put regular filters in that are mounted on the fan mounting holes, don't.

I was thinking more along the lines of magnetic dust filters like the ones offered by silverstone. I'm not sure how I feel about the dust-filtering capabilities of a metal mesh though, currently experimenting with my PC

 

[iFreilicht]

I was thinking more along the lines of magnetic dust filters like the ones offered by silverstone. I'm not sure how I feel about the dust-filtering capabilities of a metal mesh though, currently experimenting with my PC

Either way, if they're something that's hard to get on the aftermarket, you should include them. I personally don't know how the mesh filters perform, but I could imagine that the ones from Silverstone would work better, so if you decide they'll be the recommended solution, you may want to offer them bundled with the case, while still allowing users to order it without filters.

 

[esplin2966]

Either way, if they're something that's hard to get on the aftermarket, you should include them. I personally don't know how the mesh filters perform, but I could imagine that the ones from Silverstone would work better, so if you decide they'll be the recommended solution, you may want to offer them bundled with the case, while still allowing users to order it without filters.

I think ultimately it'll have to depend on price. If I can get a substantial price drop from buying the filters in bulk, I can include them. But if it's not that much discount, might as well just give recommendations and let the people who want filters buy it themselves.

 

[SaperPL]

It's just a thought but I'm not sure if 463mm is such a small form factor. It's something people noted early during my research. IT's not all about the volume but biggest dimension also matters. the server rack is 430mm wide which means your case is a lot wider than rack servers and routers.

I understand that approach is simpler and cheaper thanks to all connectors facing back and no need for special cable and bracket for power supply but still it'll be something of a 22" widescreen width.

I realized it after first prototype that every cm above 32 is making the size more and more undesirable.

 

[esplin2966]

It's just a thought but I'm not sure if 463mm is such a small form factor. It's something people noted early during my research. IT's not all about the volume but biggest dimension also matters. the server rack is 430mm wide which means your case is a lot wider than rack servers and routers.

I understand that approach is simpler and cheaper thanks to all connectors facing back and no need for special cable and bracket for power supply but still it'll be something of a 22" widescreen width.

I realized it after first prototype that every cm above 32 is making the size more and more undesirable.

I believe that the issue most people have with one dimension being big is with the footprint of the PC case. Normally your PC will take up x*y amount of area on your desk, and if x or y is big, then you have less effective space, which is undesirable.

With my design of having no exhaust holes on top, you can put your monitor/TV and stuff on the PC, so the effective desktop space it takes up is small. It's also fairly thin, so it doesn't significantly elevate the screen or anything.

In fact, I think this might be the first gaming-grade PC case design that is aimed at an integrated look with the rest of the desktop/living room electronics. I will try and get a few renders of the case with monitors and stuff so people can get a feel for what that's like.

 

[DrakonSan]

Ah man, both you and dondan are killing me here. So good, but in the end there can be only one for me.

With my design of having no exhaust holes on top, you can put your monitor/TV and stuff on the PC, so the effective desktop space it takes up is small. It's also fairly thin, so it doesn't significantly elevate the screen or anything.

Reminds of the early 90s when I had my CRT on top of a steel desktop case. It DID bow a little. You've got extra GPU support, but to support a 22"+ monitor, you may need additional bracing or structural bends in the top panel. Careful testing!

 

[iFreilicht]

I believe that the issue most people have with one dimension being big is with the footprint of the PC case. Normally your PC will take up x*y amount of area on your desk, and if x or y is big, then you have less effective space, which is undesirable.

With my design of having no exhaust holes on top, you can put your monitor/TV and stuff on the PC, so the effective desktop space it takes up is small. It's also fairly thin, so it doesn't significantly elevate the screen or anything.

In fact, I think this might be the first gaming-grade PC case design that is aimed at an integrated look with the rest of the desktop/living room electronics. I will try and get a few renders of the case with monitors and stuff so people can get a feel for what that's like.

Yes to all of this. Especially the integration in a HiFi rack. Most DVRs are very wide, this design will fit in there nicely.

I think 463mm are also a very good width for having your monitor on the case. If I look at my 19.5" monitor (which is about the smallest size people use with desktops, it's 515mm wide, so having Inverse sit below it could work very well.

But, and I think that's a big problem for some, Inverse is too deep to put it below a monitor. On most desks, the monitor is as far away from the user as possible, which means close to the far edge of the desk. None of the feet of the screens I have here have a higher depth than 200mm, having the case under it extend an additional 100mm is a pretty big deal in my eyes, as it highly reduces the space you have available on the desk.
This is probably a non-issue for people that use their desk just for the PC, but if you also work on it in other ways, this may be a problem.
Still, I wouldn't say that the case depth should be reduced. As it is now, Inverse will work for a lot of people, and reducing the size now will require compromising in other areas. SFF isn't always about portability, and this case falls into that category.

Ah man, both you and dondan are killing me here. So good, but in the end there can be only one for me.
Reminds of the early 90s when I had my CRT on top of a steel desktop case. It DID bow a little. You've got extra GPU support, but to support a 22"+ monitor, you may need additional bracing or structural bends in the top panel. Careful testing!

Yeah esplin should test this, but LCDs are a lot lighter than the good ol' CRT, so I suspect it won't really be a problem.

 

[esplin2966]

Ah man, both you and dondan are killing me here. So good, but in the end there can be only one for me.
Reminds of the early 90s when I had my CRT on top of a steel desktop case. It DID bow a little. You've got extra GPU support, but to support a 22"+ monitor, you may need additional bracing or structural bends in the top panel. Careful testing!

Yeah, I'm definitely going to do a weight test when I finish with the prototype. I'll probably do it last since I'm probably interested in how much MAX weight it can hold, which means I'll load it to failure (crush it). It will be exciting and heartbreaking at the same time.

 

[esplin2966]

Yes to all of this. Especially the integration in a HiFi rack. Most DVRs are very wide, this design will fit in there nicely.

I think 463mm are also a very good width for having your monitor on the case. If I look at my 19.5" monitor (which is about the smallest size people use with desktops, it's 515mm wide, so having Inverse sit below it could work very well.

But, and I think that's a big problem for some, Inverse is too deep to put it below a monitor. On most desks, the monitor is as far away from the user as possible, which means close to the far edge of the desk. None of the feet of the screens I have here have a higher depth than 200mm, having the case under it extend an additional 100mm is a pretty big deal in my eyes, as it highly reduces the space you have available on the desk.
This is probably a non-issue for people that use their desk just for the PC, but if you also work on it in other ways, this may be a problem.
Still, I wouldn't say that the case depth should be reduced. As it is now, Inverse will work for a lot of people, and reducing the size now will require compromising in other areas. SFF isn't always about portability, and this case falls into that category.



Yeah esplin should test this, but LCDs are a lot lighter than the good ol' CRT, so I suspect it won't really be a problem.

I'm thinking the extra 100mm can hold other things, like external DVD burner, USB hub, speaker bar, etc. But you're right, it may still be difficult for people with shallow desks. You're also right in that the extra 100mm may just be something that has to be tolerated, since it gives a lot of flexibility.