I mean if its measurably better I'll switch to it and adapt to the shitty UI. Really hate the right click menu and the start menu on 11. But if it isn't I'm just lost on what the point is.
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WiFi 7 isn't supported on Windows 10
- Thread starter Lakados
- Start date
I mean if its measurably better I'll switch to it and adapt to the shitty UI. Really hate the right click menu and the start menu on 11. But if it isn't I'm just lost on what the point is.
From an enterprise standpoint, 10 shits the bed when dealing with too many things 11 fixes, and 11 plays nicer with non-Microsoft web services.
So we are making the change for what amounts to an easier time managing things and better interoperability between O365, Google, Apple, and Amazon services.
But for home meh. What ever keeps your stuff working.
MrGuvernment
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Ya and those very same people swore they would never leave XP to go to 7, then never leave 7 to go to 10.. and yet here we are...
If history has taught me anything, nearly all the time, every other windows release is trash.
Win 95/98/2000
Win Me.
XP
Vista
7
8
10
ManofGod
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Officially, there was no Windows 7 SP2.
XP was pretty bad until it got a few SP's under its belt, I don't remember if it was 2 that really brought it about to where I would use it over 2000/NT but yeah.If history has taught me anything, nearly all the time, every other windows release is trash.
Win 95/98/2000
Win Me.
XP
Vista
7
8
10
pendragon1
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the "roll-up" was sp2 but because they said they wouldnt do a sp2 they wouldnt call it that.
sp1
NamelessPFG
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Tell that to my employer; not only do they want our rental computer fleet still on Windows 10 because all the changed menus and such will probably piss off the techs setting them up at the trade shows they're rented to, but we still have some in-house database software still running on a Windows Server 2008 R2 VM, for crying out loud!
There's also the time when they updated a subset of the computers from Windows Server 2012 R2 to Server 2016 - not Server 2022 or even 2019, but three versions behind to 2016. I don't even know why they need Windows Server specifically on those systems, must be SQL or IIS-related, because it sure isn't Active Directory.
Corporate IT is, more often than not, companies dragged kicking and screaming out of their tech debt once they're finally willing to spend the money on some new hardware and software that hasn't been EOL for years already, and sometimes they insist on running old OSes because of some piece of software that won't support the latest OS and can't be effectively virtualized for some reason. (Macs are far, far worse about this than Windows could ever be.)
I can't imagine a company so readily willing to adopt Windows 11 everywhere in light of that.
I'm not giving them the option, I am tired of fighting with their workflows that 10 is just not suited for, so they can change their workflows, and get the pension and accounting software replacements back on track (were supposed to go live with them 2 years ago), or they can switch to 11. But 10 hates dealing with multiple O365 accounts under different domains, and since every vendor and their dog now has their own web UI and each is using either Google or Microsoft as their SAML authenticator as they moved between programs it constantly breaks all the others for file syncing, or notifications and such. Why is Sharepoint down, Oh because you logged into Navistar in Chrome which overrode your connection to the Sharepoint drives, but if I use Edge for Navistar it breaks my email and chat for the union teams group, and blah blah blah.
11 Lets you handle multiple accounts from multiple service providers using multiples of the same backend natively and 10 claims to do it but it doesn't.
4saken
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long thread for a tech virtually none of us are using, yet.
Amazing how that keeps happening with every new version of Windows, and yet they keep finding new bugs and making the UI worse.
Man, it's too bad there was no possible way they could've fixed that in 10.
By that logic, there's no reason for them to not have rolled it all down to Dos because everybody knows that UI design peaked at Norton Commander.
Your silliness re: reductio ad absurdum has been noted.
DukenukemX
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It's as easy as using Rufus to bypass TPM requirements. At that point, you might as well install Linux using Rufus.
You not owning or having control over your system? Why do we all hate DRM in video games and film? Microsoft is telling you that you can do whatever you want with your Windows PC, so long as it's within their DRM scheme. At that point, you can use your imagination in how far Microsoft can go with this power. Prevent adblockers, delete software they don't agree with you having, forcing a payment system. You know, an iPhone. They could easily use this power to force Valve to sell their games on the Microsoft Store.
Dude they want to lock down your wallet. If locking down what you view makes them money, they will do it.
You think I can't watch their content in 4K? That's adorable.
TPM has already been hacked, so it's not like it'll be a problem forever. Even IBM has made software that emulates it. How you think VM's are able to run Windows 11? If DRM doesn't prevent piracy in games and media, then why would TPM work in Windows? What Microsoft is trying to do is entice developers to use their DRM which is based on TPM, so that they get more software in their store. Like all DRM, it punishes legit customers while pirates are unaffected. In time the Windows OS will turn into a mess of DRM enforcement.
Lakados It looks like Microsoft can still keep adding things to Windows 10 after all! I just applied a minor Windows update (and I guess got the latest version of Edge, too), and got this lovely crap (swiped an image I found because I cancelled it with prejudice before I thought to take a screenshot.)
Right smack in the middle of my desktop.
Right smack in the middle of my desktop.
I don't know what point you are trying to make.
They can add new features but apparently can't fix bugs?
That's an edge update and a bad one at that, but at least they have the foresight to give you the option to turn it off right in the popup advertising the new feature, it wouldn't have been so long ago that they left it on, used it to gather data, got found out about it, then tanked and lost a lawsuit from the EU with some stupidly huge fine.
But that search bar has been tied to Edge since Windows 10 launched, but now that it feeds data back to their AI and gets stored for processing they need to give an opt-out.
pendragon1
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that turn off button is just so hard to click.....
staknhalo
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Wasn't 98 SE or 2nd Edition or something another one people were never leaving? LMFAO
Edit: I like 11 less than I did Vista - I had no problem with Vista TBH all my stuff had working modern x64 drivers, a little over-memory heavy (even with 'unused RAM is wasted RAM') and SP1 or 2 fixed that. 11 was nowhere as smooth as Vista was for me on roll out. And now my biggest gripe now is them gimping a bunch of Group Policy stuff etc. It's gotten a little smoother but crap is still so kludgy/heavy it feels.
But it works better with HDR stuff and the newest DX stuff so it's not like I'm not gonna use it .
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Vista on a machine that met the original requirements Microsoft had laid out was fine, Vista on the machines HP, Compaq, Gateway, and many others released after fighting Microsoft to lower the requirements so they could still sell older stock ran like ass after an all you can eat Taco Bell buffet.
Also, there were significant differences between Vista Home, Business, and Ultimate. Ultimate had a more stable kernel and was essentially Windows Server but with the new GUI.
So Vista Ultimate and new hardware ran great, things got progressively worse as you moved down the stack.
staknhalo
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I only ran Home Premium cause I needed WMC back then - I think I was running it on a Core 2 Duo E6300 and then a Q6600 with 2/4GB DDR2 RAM
Edit: and Nvidia was fine with Vista drivers in my experience - I might have had a few crashes or BSOD early on with Vista's release and GPU drivers. Nothing sticks out that I can remember though. That was where people had a lot of issues. And with sound cards/drivers IIRC.
Edit: and Nvidia was fine with Vista drivers in my experience - I might have had a few crashes or BSOD early on with Vista's release and GPU drivers. Nothing sticks out that I can remember though. That was where people had a lot of issues. And with sound cards/drivers IIRC.
Especially the first year or so UAC on Vista was a real pain. It took a while for 3rd party devs to stop writing their apps assuming everyone was running as admin and triggering elevation prompts unnecessarily.
Between putting limits on shitty 3rd party software and underspec hardware Vista got much more of a bad rap than it really deserved. By the time 7 came out even current generation race to the bottom crap could run things well and 3rd party software was mostly cleaned up so it got a much better reception.
staknhalo
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I forgot how funny ATHF was
Spirit_Retro
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Um... I'm a systems engineer with 35 years in. I'm probably running some of my own code to post this.
Let me clear something up....
Windows 11 is bad. Really bad. It hangs in the air much like bricks don't.
Um... I'm an IT Architect with 20 years in. I've professionally supported every version of Windows since 3.1.
Let me clear something up...
Windows 11 is a good OS. It works very well on a large variety of systems for a large variety of tasks and is very secure. It is just 10 with a new coat of paint and some minor under the hood improvements, so if 10 works well, so does it.
Seriously man, stop with the appeal to authority trying to make your opinion out to be a fact. If you don't like it, that's fine, but it is silly to state it as a fact, and sillier to just say it is so awful, yet not clarify WHAT makes it so awful, in particular in ways that are different from other modern OSes you'd consider goof.
Format _C:
2[H]4U
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Damn and I'm still on 802.11 AC oh excuse me WiFi 5 LoL
I wish DD-WRT can get with the program as they don't support WiFi 6(E)
I wish DD-WRT can get with the program as they don't support WiFi 6(E)
I had forgotten that DD-WRT was a thing!
Spirit_Retro
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You do realize of course, that pointing out the construct of a fallacy, is to miss the joke.
If it was supposed to be a joke... it didn't land.
DukenukemX
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Windows 11 is a fine OS, if you're an end user. You use the computer as intended. You don't visit websites that can get you infections. You don't mind Microsoft collecting telemetry on you, because what do you have to hide? As a power user, Windows 11 is a bad OS. Everything you want out of Windows 11 requires you to delve into the registry. You want it to look like Windows 10... registry. You want the old fashion right click menu... registry. You want to install Windows 11 on a computer without TPM2.0... Rufus. This is in addition to the changes done to previous versions of Windows. Remember the F8 key that booted you into safe mode? That was removed in Windows 10. Remember when Windows 10 would force your PC to reboot to apply updates without any warning? You can disable that, but it's a much bigger ordeal than going into the registry.
This is why Windows 8 was so poorly taken, because it was a big fuck you to power users. Microsoft wants to cook the frog slowly this time. Why is finding certain settings so hard now? Why can't there be a button instead of a registry entry for things the way I like it? It's all a deterrent. You think as a Linux Mint user I gotta worry about updates? I can customize my UI the way I like it, which oddly looks like Windows 7. I can boot with GRUB, which is a sort of safe mode when things go wrong. I can use my computer the way I like it to the 'T'. Microsoft knows, which is why they developers Windows Subsystem for Linux. Cause I'm going to dump Linux to use Windows with Ubuntu in a VM? It's the other way around, it's Windows that belongs in a VM.
The reality is most people aren't power users, and therefore Windows 11 is perfectly fine. Better than Linux in that regard. I gotta dick around with Wine to maybe get a Windows only built application to work, while a Windows 11 user will just double click and get it done. Everything just works on Windows 11.
Spirit_Retro
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Do you have your towel?
I guess "power user" is the only category I could see that would complain. As an enterprise user, none of the listed things matter. Having to change things in the register is not a problem, no harder than editing a .conf file and something that normally is done/enforced with group policy or DSC anyhow.
So I guess the group that has a legitimate (sort of) complaint are the people who want to make changes that aren't exposed in the GUI, don't want to edit the registry, and don't want to pay for 3rd party tools. Fair enough, I guess, but not enough of the market that I would call it a problem. As you say, regular users just don't care it doesn't affect them (and is the same kind of stuff that other platforms like Android do) and enterprise users can easily change things, if they need to.
DukenukemX
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In the enterprise you are paying Microsoft to not have problems. If you bought a laptop for yourself, you are never going to speak to someone from Microsoft. If you need help then you either Google it, or take it to the Geek Squad.
It's not a problem, if you know where in the registry it is. Power users will find this, because they saw it on Reddit. If it's not in the UI, it's not meant to be found so easily.
Linux gives you more power over what you can do with your computer. You won't see a Linux user sticking with Ubuntu 16.04 because they feel the newer stuff is worse. It's not like Windows XP and 7 where people kept them for as long as possible, at least until Windows 10 where Microsoft understood what they did wrong. Linux users won't have issues with the UI, because not only is the UI customizable but you have many choices for a UI. If Linux Mint guys decide to put the start button in the middle like Microsoft did with Windows 11, I can always move it back. No need to edit a registry entry or .conf file. I don't lose hardware support, I gain hardware support with newer Linux kernels. If you have an older Intel CPU with HD 3000 or 4000 graphics, you don't have OpenGL in Windows 10. Which really sucked for my 3D printing software. So I either downgrade to Windows 7 or get a newer graphics card. In Linux, not only you have working OpenGL, but also working Vulkan. The reason Windows 11's adoption is slow is because Windows 11 requires TPM2.0, which even fairly recent computers don't have. And no, it isn't easy to install Windows 11 on an unsupported machine. Neither casual users nor businesses are going to do it. In Linux, WiFi 7 already works. You can still use Ubuntu 20.04 and get WiFi 7 working. This is only a problem for those buying new computers and intend to reinstall Windows 10. Which honestly won't be many. There are those who have desktops who may want WiFi 7 on Windows 10, but even then they will probably just upgrade to 11.
GotNoRice
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To move the Start Button back to the left side, you right click on the task bar and click on "Taskbar Settings", and then switch the "Taskbar Alignment" from "Center" to "Left". Seems very intuitive to me. Why lie and make it seem like it's harder than it really is? Does Linux really suck that bad that you have to make up fake flaws about Windows?
Anything with a 64-bit Vista driver or newer can be installed on Windows 11. That covers ~17 years worth of hardware in many cases. Seems like pretty good hardware support to me.
All you have to do to install Windows 11 on an unsupported machine is copy one file. You don't even need a program like Rufus. Just take the "appraiserres.dll" file from the Sources folder of the Windows 10 install files and drop it into the Sources folder of the Windows 11 install files and boom you're done, Windows 11 will now install using Windows 10's hardware requirements. Interesting how you say that using any one of the 100 different documented ways to bypass the requirements "isn't easy". You think that a single person who would have difficulty with that would be able to upgrade a Linux install? Or maybe that depends on which one of the 1000 different versions they might be using?
Most "casual users" just don't care. The same kind of people who never change the oil in their car. You think they care if they aren't getting security updates anymore? But that's on them.
There is still to this day no actual documented evidence that WiFi 7 won't work on Windows 10. This entire thread was started based on a click-bait article which made a bunch of assumptions based on a random picture.
LOL to that, don't think you've met many Linux users. Some of them can be stick in the mud to a level I never though possible. My GF is a Linux developer and getting her to upgrade her OS is like pulling teeth. "It is working I don't want to break it," is the common answer. Her laptop is on 22.04 LTS because it is new but her desktop is still on 16, or maybe earlier, I'd have to check.
Network people also tend to be really bad, the number of switches running code from 8 years ago is staggering.
Some people are just stick-in-the-mud when it comes to upgrading.
I still have 2 active REHL 5.4 servers that work and are still supported by the application developer. They will go and they will be replaced with what is likely Windows server 2021 (assuming they keep to the revised schedule). But it works and it is a known entity, zero surprises. 5/5 would recommend, assuming you are cool with $60k annual support contracts.
DukenukemX
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I meant the taskbar to the left, which is a pretty easy task to accomplish on most Linux GUI's.
I gave the example of how older Intel GPU's don't have OpenGL on Windows 10, and I doubt they do with Windows 11. You can try to install older Intel drivers, but you won't get OpenGL.
It isn't easy for a normal user, and neither is installing Linux. A person who doesn't know how to download and edit the Windows 11 ISO is just not going to do it. They will continue to use Windows 10 because there is no immediate consequence in doing so. I will say that you don't have to edit a Linux ISO to install it, It's what you do after installing Linux that becomes the hard part.
It's not like Microsoft hasn't done this in the past. No DX10 for Windows XP for example. No DX12 for Windows 7, unless you play World of Warcraft. It sounds plausible considering Microsoft's history. If it isn't true, then good on Microsoft. If it's true, then typical Microsoft.
Considering she's using 22.04 as well as (I'm assuming) 16.04, I would say it's laziness. I tend to wait to upgrade as well, but only because I don't want to put in the work. Though I don't wait years to upgrade. Also, not upgrading Linux isn't the same as not upgrading Windows. Even though 16.04 hasn't been supported for years, you can still update parts of the OS without Ubuntu. Even though updating the kernel is frowned upon, you can still do it.
This I can understand, because any update is potential for problems. Nobody wants their network down because Bob did an update. The flip side is that you're more succestible to attacks using vulnerabilities.
That's definitely why a lot of people stuck with Windows XP.