Two years after launch Windows 11 adoption is still waaaay behind Windows 10

cjcox said:
The limitations have to do with "pass keys". So, it depends.
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Is this Microsofts built in password manager?

Microsoft is probably one of the last organizations I would ever trust with my passwords or any other private data.

No big loss. Never save a password in a browser or OS. Bad idea.
 
Zarathustra[H] said:
Is this Microsofts built in password manager?

Microsoft is probably one of the last organizations I would ever trust with my passwords or any other private data.

No big loss. Never save a password in a browser or OS. Bad idea.
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It's that "new thing" that Microsoft and Google are pushing to make "the world more secure". But the idea is to jam the keys into your TPM.

The concept is that instead of your "password manager" filling in passwords on your behalf, the future is using keys to do message exchange validation to create "auth". Much like ssh, but of course, "their way".

Essence of "Hello for Business", but more broad in scope.

As now Google has prevented 3rd party cookies, this "new style" may come more to the forefront. Both Google and Microsoft have invested a lot in this "digital auth future". We'll see.
 
cjcox said:
The limitations have to do with "pass keys". So, it depends.
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That's not really a big deal. I don't use any of Microsoft's built-in password management. I use Bitwarden for passwords, 2FA, and passkeys (with 2FAS for authenticating Bitwarden itself). Other password managers offer passkeys as well.

cjcox said:
It's that "new thing" that Microsoft and Google are pushing to make "the world more secure". But the idea is to jam the keys into your TPM.

The concept is that instead of your "password manager" filling in passwords on your behalf, the future is using keys to do message exchange validation to create "auth". Much like ssh, but of course, "their way".

Essence of "Hello for Business", but more broad in scope.

As now Google has prevented 3rd party cookies, this "new style" may come more to the forefront. Both Google and Microsoft have invested a lot in this "digital auth future". We'll see.
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Google and Microsoft are the last companies on earth I want managing that kind of information. Apple is in on it as well. I don't use any of their implementations of it. I'll stick with Bitwarden.
 
Shoganai said:
That's not really a big deal. I don't use any of Microsoft's built-in password management. I use Bitwarden for passwords, 2FA, and passkeys (with 2FAS for authenticating Bitwarden itself). Other password managers offer passkeys as well.


Google and Microsoft are the last companies on earth I want managing that kind of information. Apple is in on it as well. I don't use any of their implementations of it. I'll stick with Bitwarden.
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This is going to sound bad, but if you're "running Windows".... drink the Kool-aid you must (eventually).
 
cjcox said:
It's that "new thing" that Microsoft and Google are pushing to make "the world more secure". But the idea is to jam the keys into your TPM.

The concept is that instead of your "password manager" filling in passwords on your behalf, the future is using keys to do message exchange validation to create "auth". Much like ssh, but of course, "their way".

Essence of "Hello for Business", but more broad in scope.

As now Google has prevented 3rd party cookies, this "new style" may come more to the forefront. Both Google and Microsoft have invested a lot in this "digital auth future". We'll see.
Click to expand...

It sounds good in theory. RSA keys work very well in SSH.

Only problem is I don't trust either Microsoft or Google as far as I can throw them.

So, chances are I'll never use it.
 
Zarathustra[H] said:
Speaking of which, what does the jury say about running Wi 11 without TPM on "unsupported" older Intel CPU's. Any real issues?
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I have run Windows 11 on a large number of unsupported systems at this point and I have found that even very old hardware, something like a Core2Quad based system, can run Windows 11 very well. I have not found any hardware, regardless of age, where it runs worse than 10. The only notable incompatibility I've observed has been with old nforce chipsets. These Intel Core2-era systems with nforce chipsets would run Windows 10 fine, and they would run Windows 11 fine up until 21H2. Something changed with 22H2, and those certain nforce chipsets will no longer work. But really, those older nforce chipsets were quirky and problematic even when they were new so it doesn't surprise me to see them stand out as a problem child now. Interestingly, older nforce chipsets using AMD CPUs seem to be okay. I have not come across a single Intel Chipset + Intel CPU (64-bit) system that couldn't install Windows 11. That includes my Pentium-4 test system.
 
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pendragon1 said:
yes. you can still load 11 on whatever you want, with a little effort(tpm bypass) or even the proper key. my work's edu key will install 11 on whatever i want, no tpm limits.
there, youve been educated.
View attachment 633368
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1707384511475.jpeg
 
we are waiting for Windows 11 LTSC before we change our core Windows 10 LTSC 2021 over...
at home, I run Win11 on my gaming rig, wifes laptop, my old surface pro 1 and my htpc connected to my tv to do 7 live tv streams on screen in 1 large and 6 mini PiP... football, baseball, golf, news all in 1!!!!!
I drank the kool-aid...

Ran esxi 6.7 with win11, now running server 2022 with hyper-v running win11 in vm.
not sure all the hate on win11...


I prefer XP. best layout ever... Windows 8, errr 8.1, was great too.. heck.. ran Vista like a champ. Just throw hardware at it and it ran great.
 
GoldenTiger said:
Beats me. Maybe he's projecting his Linux love? He did a great job of derailing the thread :(.
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No offense, I did not. I did sort of joked about it though. I was trying to quell the misinformation being given about what Microsoft says is supported and what is not supported. But all of that was because I spoke truth about when you would not receive that huge Microsoft full screen upgrade encouragement. Then a bunch of incorrect things were said about non-supported systems being "supported" somehow. But, read the thread. Sorry if you felt my responses to the gross misinformation being spread was a "derailment".
 
cjcox said:
No offense, I did not. I did sort of joked about it though. I was trying to quell the misinformation being given about what Microsoft says is supported and what is not supported. But all of that was because I spoke truth about when you would not receive that huge Microsoft full screen upgrade encouragement. Then a bunch of incorrect things were said about non-supported systems being "supported" somehow. But, read the thread. Sorry if you felt my responses to the gross misinformation being spread was a "derailment".
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Nobody cares.
 
sk3tch said:
Would you buy an RTX 2080 in 2024 instead of an RTX 4060? I doubt it. Even though they perform the same you want the newer hardware capabilities.
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Of course I would. In a heartbeat. RTX 4060 does not have Windows 7 drivers so it's not even a consideration.
 
Shoganai said:
I'll get back on the rail. I actually like Windows 11. *gasp*
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Me too. I find 11 is very much like 10 just more refined. Less garbage warnings. Etc. Less bugs even. Have it on both my laptop and desktop, no complaints.

Still I think my favorite was 7. It just worked great out of the box.
 
Windows 11 requires more mouse clicks to get to places that was easier in Windows 10, and easier still in Windows 7. I don't consider settings "hidden" a good thing. It's also dumbed down too much that I require registry edits or aftermarket shells just to bring features back. So no, I will never like Windows 11.
 
It's not just Windows that makes those kind of "reinvent" mistakes. So many times I just wish they (whoever) would "add" what we want instead of changing what was, you know?
 
Just fyi, the "reason" for the move to the middle was due to advent of super wide screens. If that becomes "the norm", we might appreciate the "middle centered" task bar. But as others have said, easily changed back to the traditional.
 
cjcox said:
Just fyi, the "reason" for the move to the middle was due to advent of super wide screens. If that becomes "the norm", we might appreciate the "middle centered" task bar. But as others have said, easily changed back to the traditional.
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I have a super wide screen and I still prefer the left side. It's good to have options, though.
 
Bigbacon said:
doesn't help. I want multiple tiers, quick launch, and other stuff in it.
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still dont understand this multiple tiers thing, never used it. pin stuff, single click and its opened. whatever gripes i had about the taskbar have been long forgotten(not the start menu, its still a pos), i got used to it and didnt need it...
 
pendragon1 said:
still dont understand this multiple tiers thing, never used it. pin stuff, single click and its opened. whatever gripes i had about the taskbar have been long forgotten(not the start menu, its still a pos), i got used to it and didnt need it...
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Maybe so, but I've always thought that this is Microsoft's problem right here. Their long standing policy of telling the customer what they want.
 
pendragon1 said:
still dont understand this multiple tiers thing, never used it. pin stuff, single click and its opened. whatever gripes i had about the taskbar have been long forgotten(not the start menu, its still a pos), i got used to it and didnt need it...
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I have so many things open usually I need the tiers. I want the text not just the icon, I don't want grouped items either. I also have other shortcuts in the task bar to other things like drives and what not.
 
Bigbacon said:
I have so many things open usually I need the tiers. I want the text not just the icon, I don't want grouped items either. I also have other shortcuts in the task bar to other things like drives and what not.
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I too have always wondered about these "grouped" and/or "focused" views. Supposedly they do this sort of thing because of UX testing. I'm like, "This was preferred?"
 
cjcox said:
I too have always wondered about these "grouped" and/or "focused" views. Supposedly they do this sort of thing because of UX testing. I'm like, "This was preferred?"
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Yes, by the Apple using kids who are now project managing ux for MS.
 
The goal is to appeal to the largest group of users while spending the least amount of money. Pretty much any business decision ever.
 
Kirika said:
I think Windows 11 has too much bloat, spyware, high requirements and TPM silliness to be more widely adopted. Seems like it will be a really bad time come 2025 when Windows 10 goes end of life unless Windows 12 reverses much of these. Companies don't seem to be upgrading to Windows 11 much.
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sk3tch said:
If you have lower end hardware, sure. But if you're running modern X3D chips, Intel CPUs with e-cores, have the need for HDR - Windows 11 is the way to go. I don't understand why anyone bothers using Windows 10. It has a much quicker end of life and you can make Windows 11 look like Windows 10 very easily if that's your bag.

Would you buy an RTX 2080 in 2024 instead of an RTX 4060? I doubt it. Even though they perform the same you want the newer hardware capabilities.
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Links to make it like 10?
Bigbacon said:
I would use windows 11 if it had the built in option to have a normal task bar like every other version of windows before it.
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Agreed, I'm happy with W-10 since there wasn't a huge change from how 7 worked.
 
GotNoRice said:
I have run Windows 11 on a large number of unsupported systems at this point and I have found that even very old hardware, something like a Core2Quad based system, can run Windows 11 very well. I have not found any hardware, regardless of age, where it runs worse than 10. The only notable incompatibility I've observed has been with old nforce chipsets. These Intel Core2-era systems with nforce chipsets would run Windows 10 fine, and they would run Windows 11 fine up until 21H2. Something changed with 22H2, and those certain nforce chipsets will no longer work. But really, those older nforce chipsets were quirky and problematic even when they were new so it doesn't surprise me to see them stand out as a problem child now. Interestingly, older nforce chipsets using AMD CPUs seem to be okay. I have not come across a single Intel Chipset + Intel CPU (64-bit) system that couldn't install Windows 11. That includes my Pentium-4 test system.
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I wouldn't be surprised if Linux just works out of the box with those nForce chipsets.
ZodaEX said:
Of course I would. In a heartbeat. RTX 4060 does not have Windows 7 drivers so it's not even a consideration.
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Wouldn't an RTX 2080 still be faster than a RTX 4060?
Valnar said:
Windows 11 requires more mouse clicks to get to places that was easier in Windows 10, and easier still in Windows 7. I don't consider settings "hidden" a good thing. It's also dumbed down too much that I require registry edits or aftermarket shells just to bring features back. So no, I will never like Windows 11.
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You could always make Linux look like Windows 10.

View: https://youtu.be/qtTcRnyPvNk?si=gFmNvB5JvNyWCLz8
cjcox said:
Just fyi, the "reason" for the move to the middle was due to advent of super wide screens. If that becomes "the norm", we might appreciate the "middle centered" task bar. But as others have said, easily changed back to the traditional.
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I believe the move to the middle is to give it a MacOS look. That and maybe Microsoft is still betting on the tablet market for Windows 11? To change back to the traditional look would need software outside of Windows.
 
DukenukemX said:
I believe the move to the middle is to give it a MacOS look. That and maybe Microsoft is still betting on the tablet market for Windows 11? To change back to the traditional look would need software outside of Windows.
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You can make the bar go across the entire bottom and have the "start" on the far left, just like before, all standard settings. No magic required.
 
cjcox said:
You can make the bar go across the entire bottom and have the "start" on the far left, just like before, all standard settings. No magic required.
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Yeah. It's just in the taskbar settings. It's one of the first things I change when setting up a fresh install of Windows 11.
 
DukenukemX said:
I wouldn't be surprised if Linux just works out of the box with those nForce chipsets.
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The issues that have held Linux back have never been related to what it could be made to run on. I'm sure that there are plenty of other computers that can't run Windows 11 that you could put Linux on also, such as those using 32-bit CPUs. Maybe you should open up a store to put all of that valuable hardware to use.

As mentioned, those nforce chipsets were POS chipsets even when they were new and have always had problems. On one of those nforce systems that wouldn't run Windows 11 22H2, I had already previously diagnosed a recurring BSOD issue that was fixed by mounting a dedicated fan aimed at the chipset heatsink...

DukenukemX said:
I believe the move to the middle is to give it a MacOS look.
Click to expand...

I have to believe that Ultrawide monitors were part of the reason. I preferred it in the corner also when using 4:3, 16:10, and even 16:9 monitors, but it would trigger my OCD having something so important so far off at the edge on my 38" Ultrawide. With the amount of stuff I keep open on my taskbar, it ends up pretty far over on the left anyway.
 
cjcox said:
You can make the bar go across the entire bottom and have the "start" on the far left, just like before, all standard settings. No magic required.
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I thought you needed something like ExplorerPatcher for that?
GotNoRice said:
As mentioned, those nforce chipsets were POS chipsets even when they were new and have always had problems. On one of those nforce systems that wouldn't run Windows 11 22H2, I had already previously diagnosed a recurring BSOD issue that was fixed by mounting a dedicated fan aimed at the chipset heatsink...
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That's because you're trying to run hardware that's meant for Windows 7 on a Windows 11 OS. Do you have a top down fan CPU cooler that is meant to help cool the surrounding area, including the chipset? I have setup Linux Mint on a nForce systems in the past without issue, and it just works because the driver and everything is built into the OS. It's just the state of things when Windows 11 is actually hostile towards installing it on anything but the newest hardware.
I have to believe that Ultrawide monitors were part of the reason. I preferred it in the corner also when using 4:3, 16:10, and even 16:9 monitors, but it would trigger my OCD having something so important so far off at the edge on my 38" Ultrawide. With the amount of stuff I keep open on my taskbar, it ends up pretty far over on the left anyway. It doesn't make sense for tablets, but I guess making it center is easier for them. For those of us with a regular sized monitor, it's just annoying. Microsoft clearly didn't learn from Windows 8.
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Kinda stupid to make something like that default when hardly anyone has an ultrawide monitor. There seems to be some validity to your claim, as pointed out by a Microsoft employee.

"I do remember we wanted to make sure that the start button felt efficient, and we also noticed Windows has become more flexible in terms of the devices that it’s used on: from tiny tablets to PCs to these gigantic, 50-inch, ultra-wide monitors. And when you have these giant monitors, the button is no longer in the periphery—you need to actually travel in order to interact with the button. So we wanted to put the menu in the center...not shoved into a little corner, where sometimes people might miss it."
 
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