![[H]ard|Forum](/styles/hardforum/xenforo/logo_dark.png){kind=logo}
Yes, this.
Haha, I still remember people complaining xp was too "fisher price" with its interface as a reason not to upgrade. Oh no, colors!
Did this a few weeks ago, worked great.
I remember that. In fairness, XP was a pretty ugly looking OS from a UI perspective. UI/UX design has definitely come a long way since then. Not that Microsoft seems to be learning from its gaffs.
Bitch you must be high as fuck if you think any of that looks better than this.Bullshit this was peak Windows (including 500 official theme/color variants you had to hunt down like Pokemon)
View attachment 603501
View attachment 603502
View attachment 603503
View attachment 603504
But also - it's still "Start Menu over there" "File Explorer here" Windows hasn't really changed much UI/UX since (8 was the biggest attempt at that - Win 10/11 reverted to same old for all the things that have 'changed')
Edit: Shit is still Windows 95 except we lost briefcases somewhere I think
The amount of effort needed to install Windows 11 on unsupported hardware is harder than installing Linux. Also, if you do get Windows 11 running on a Core2Duo machine, then good luck with drivers. Unless you have a fairly modern GPU, you won't have working drivers. With Linux, you have a good chance of it working out of the box. I'm not saying that to promote Linux, which I am, but that maybe that's why people aren't adopting Windows 11. Their machine just isn't supported. The only reason to installed Windows 11 is because eventually Microsoft will stop supporting Windows 10, and you don't want to know what will happen when you don't get security updates.
8 was hardly fine if you were still using a 2008 Active Directory schema, and if you were using an environment with floating profiles ick forget about it, added a solid 15-20 minutes to the login unless you were running full GbE network switches where then it might only add 3-5 minutes to the log in.
I was talking as an end-user with that post, not an admin
.Yeah we got a shipment of like 30 new Dell AIO’s for an art department and they all shipped with windows 8 and we foolishly thought WTF let’s give it a go.I was talking as an end-user with that post, not an admin
I thought of plenty of different things to say, but really the bottom line is aesthetics are opinion. I wasn't a fan. If you think it's lovely I suppose that's great.Bullshit this was peak Windows (including 500 official theme/color variants you had to hunt down like Pokemon)
View attachment 603501
View attachment 603502
View attachment 603503
View attachment 603504
But also - it's still "Start Menu over there" "File Explorer here" Windows hasn't really changed much UI/UX since (8 was the biggest attempt at that - Win 10/11 reverted to same old for all the things that have 'changed')
Edit: Shit is still Windows 95 except we lost briefcases somewhere I think
Of course it is about avoiding change. Changes that are detrimental. Nobody ever complained about changes for the better that are not aimed at somehow dumbing down the experience or about eroding user control. Unfortunately the last time windows had actual improvements over the last version was in windows 7.
It's pretty obvious from your comment that you've not installed a modern linux distro on any hardware whatsoever. You don't need any kind of hacking to make it work, it recognizes the hardware. Most drivers that come from windows update are still missing functionality or otherwise broken. It's like they are deliberately making them worse than official drivers from the HW manufacturer. So you can't get around installing drivers manually for most of your hardware, and then go out of your way to block windows from re-installing the worse version because it might have a higher version number slapped on it. But of course a regular end user is unlikely to get around the TPM and CPU requirements anyway.
Not sure why you're getting defensive about Linux. This isn't a Linux thread and none of my posts were talking about Linux one way or the other.
Drivers from Windows Update don't always come with all of the bells and whistles, but especially on older hardware, it's usually more than adequate. I'm not advocating relying on Windows Update for all of your drivers, especially on modern hardware. On older hardware, it gets everything working, and any piece of hardware where you might want more functionality you still have the option of tracking down and manually installing the drivers for whatever you want to.
I've never had an issue with Windows Update overwriting any drivers that I have manually installed. For one, most drivers in Windows Update show up as optional updates. They don't install unless you select them and install them.
A "regular user" probably wouldn't even care to upgrade their OS at all. But it doesn't take a particularly advanced user to make one of the many different bypass methods work.
You were literally responding to a post about linux claiming Windows 11 is easier to install on older HW. And I'd be the last person to be defensive about linux, as I don't like it, never did. I'm partial however to facts, and linux might be many things, but hard to set up it is not anymore.
That's the point, you need to manually install drivers if you want full functionality, but with older hardware esp. There will be no driver available, leaving you with compromised usability. Which is designed to force you to buy new HW, just as the TPM requirement and lack of support for older generation CPUs. This is why Windows 11 is especially ill suited for older hardware. While if you install W10, or god forbid Win7 then you'll have full functionality with all the bells and whistles.
Are we back to this? "It's not a problem for me therefore it doesn't exist" ???
The argument I disagreeing with was that W11 is easy to set up on older hardware. Yes advanced users are probably able to get around the roadblocks, but if they can do that they can also install drivers for their GPU and other hardware that needs it. Making your point about windows update moot.
And for a regular user that can already be the end of the line, because they won't go looking and manually updating their version. So my recommendation remains: don't go around installing w11 on old unsupported hardware unless you know what you are doing and accept the risks.
You are recommending people to open their umbrella because it might rain in 2 years. Let's see if it will actually rain shall we?
And the same logic can be applied to w10, if 2 years from now W10 market share will still be significant they won't dare to discontinue critical updates for it and alienating all those people, which is a lot more than those running W11 on unsupported HW.
The post I was responding to made dumb claims such as older GPUs not working on Windows 11 which is simply false. Whether or not Linux is "easier" or not I couldn't care less. I'm not interested in partaking in irrelevant Linux tangents that some seem obsessed with trying to take this thread off into.
Maybe for something like a Video driver (which can be easily found, even for old cards) but for chipset drivers, USB drivers, sound drivers, wifi drivers, etc, in most cases you don't need the extra bloat anyway when installing on older hardware. There is really nothing wrong with the drivers that Windows Update installs in most cases, and sometimes they even do include things like control panels, etc. And again, considering that you can use drivers from all the way back to Vista if you have to, the whole idea that there will be "no driver available" is silly. Why would you think that Windows 10 or even Windows 7 would give you better driver support when Windows 11 is able to use those exact same drivers? What sort of hardware do you think you can use on 10 (64-bit) or 7 (64-bit) that you can't use on 11?
It's not like I've just done this on a couple computers. I've installed Windows 11 on probably over 100 older computers at this point. So yeah, I'm pretty confident about how Windows 11 behaves in this scenario. In most of your posts it's clear that you are borderline just making stuff up or taking some odd experience you had and assuming it's commonplace when it's not.
Except that it doesn't take an "advanced user" to do a requirements bypass. Someone could just use rufus or follow a "guide" that is a few sentences long. Someone could install drivers if they want to but on most computers you could actually install Windows 11 and have everything at a usable state without even installing a single driver. Maybe you would be missing a proprietary control panel or two but most people wouldn't even notice or miss them. Ultimately though, whether someone uses drivers from Windows Update or installs them on their own is irrelevant. The point is that the hardware will work. You have to go all the way back to XP-era hardware that never got a Vista or newer driver released to find hardware that won't actually work on Windows 11.
Windows 7 hitting End of Life got a lot of people to upgrade and I expect the same once Windows 10 approaches End of Life.
More like, why continue to use an old OS if you have a choice? Unless you plan to abandon the hardware in two years, might as well upgrade now. Microsoft has already said that Windows 10 22H2 will be the last version, so it's already coasting along and will get no more major updates other than security updates.
The EoL date for Windows 10 has been clearly established for a long time. There were a lot of people still using 7 when it hit EoL and it didn't change anything. When Windows 10 hits EoL, those who know enough to care will probably install 11 with a bypass, those who don't know enough to care will probably just keep using 10 like those who are still using 7, until they get hit with ransomware, etc, due to running an insecure OS.
When you can build/buy a better PC for less than $100, there is no excuse. These same people drop $1200+ on a new phone every year.
Windows 7 has telemetry built in, people just didn't care because there was no opt out option visible in the user interface as was added in Windows 8.1. Funny how people get more pissed off when Microsoft adds transparency.
Let me refresh your memory, this was the claim you were responding to: "The amount of effort needed to install Windows 11 on unsupported hardware is harder than installing Linux."
Windows 11 is not able to use the same drivers, in some cases it might work, but that is not the rule but the exception. There is an improvement in driver support on Windows 11, but my argument was never that drivers don't exist, but that they are not the best versions.
Only someone who has a habit of making stuff up on the spot would assume others are also doing that. I'm not a narcissist, I don't make shit up to win arguments on the internet. Everything I say is 100% my lived experience. That's the reason I commented in the first place, because you claimed something that contradicted my first hand experience. That Win11 is not harder to install on an old system than linux.
Anyone who uses rufus qualifies as an advanced user. And the fact that you need an additional app and follow a guide already demolishes the idea that Win11 is just as easy or easier to install than a modern linux made for desktop usage.
Work while missing capabilities is not really working in my book. Work means fully functional as intended.
Except Windows 7 only had 40% market share left 2 years before EOL, Windows 10 is still over 70%. That's a big gap to close.
Because it suits my work better, and has a better UI? I thought that was clear. Why would I want a worse user experience sooner?
They also said Windows 10 will be the last windows release ever. Plans change. And if over 50% of installs are still Windows 10 in 2015, that should be more than enough reason for them to reconsider. The feature updates were to its detriment anyway, making it worse with each iteration, I wish there were only security updates ever. At least for the last 3 years I'll have a dependable OS, that won't shuffle around or remove functions overnight.
Now what was that talk about doom and gloom scenarios?
![Zarathustra[H]](https://cdn.hardforum.com/data/avatars/m/9/9298.jpg?1714700655){kind=avatar}
Hopefully you don't have to use any Microsoft apps or try to manage the Macs on say a work domain. Its a pretty poor experience.
I've been running Win 11 in a VM for a few months now and have been using ExplorerPatcher to bring the Win 10 task bar to Win 11 (yes, it has quick launch and never combine). It seems to be working perfectly so you can probably do the upgrade if you want. I also use Open Shell to have a Win7ish style start menu which as a side benefit has no ads or recommendations.
Toolbars. I always enable the Quick Launch toolbar. Luckily, there's ExplorerPatcher which will bring the Win 10 task bar to Win 11.
A lot of the hate is pointed at the required online connection and data privacy concerns. That's not about not liking change, that's about not being an operating system anymore and being a spyware device. Windows is to the point it's worse than some early 2K malware. And not liking change is a valid thought. I mean, WTF was tesla thinking with a yoke, or apple with dongle everything, or intel with a 5ghz xeon cooled with the chiller from Bob's aquarium duct taped together?
Yea, 8 was so fine that it got me to start running Linux as my main OS (really glad it did!). I've had way fewer issue with Linux than I've had with Windows. I run MX Linux and run Windows 11 in a VM.
I wonder how big the I am [h] a lot but do stuff with my mouse crowd (windows+X since win8, the new terminal, the start+type 2-3 key to launch something or go to a setting section, seem to have replaced pretty much everything and made UI choice near irrelevant), it is something that seem more common than one could have imagined.
Bullshit this was peak Windows (including 500 official theme/color variants you had to hunt down like Pokemon)
View attachment 603501
View attachment 603502
View attachment 603503
View attachment 603504
But also - it's still "Start Menu over there" "File Explorer here" Windows hasn't really changed much UI/UX since (8 was the biggest attempt at that - Win 10/11 reverted to same old for all the things that have 'changed')
Edit: Shit is still Windows 95 except we lost briefcases somewhere I think
could just be for the cloud based corp thin clients
Remember when the MS apologists said it would never happen?
