PSA: Don't Spend a Buyer's Money Until You Ship The Item

[m33pm33p]

I've never run across this before but here's the story.


A few days ago I purchased a second generation Nexus 7 from a user (DANDBONLINE) here on the forums. I used paypal and paid in full ($170.00). 2 days later seller contacts me and tells me the Nexus isnt working and will refund me. I PM back thanking him for being honest and telling him just to refund. Seller PM's back that he will refund me "tomorrow". I inquire as to why I cant be refunded immediately and seller tells me he has already spent the money I paid for the nexus.


Why in the WORLD would you spend someone's money BEFORE you even MAILED said item to that person.


My rule of thumb is to not even touch the money until I receive a PM from the buyer stating they have the item and are happy. I assumed this was common sense. I guess not....


Already started paypal claim. About to contact CC company as well.

 

[W.Feather]

Agree, i typically wait until I know the buyer has received the item...

 

[CAxVIPER]

I don't spend the money until the 45 days are up so if they dispute and win then I don't have to worry about making up the money. I opened a second bank account just for selling goods online and I just transfer the money over once every other month or so. Paypals creditors are annoying when they call nonstop

 

[m33pm33p]

Agree, i typically wait until I know the buyer has received the item...

Apparently this is the [H] pay day loan service as well....

Is heat able to be left in an instance like this per their rules?




If anyone wants the name of offender shoot me a PM. Not going to put it on blast yet unless this goes further..

 

[inglewood78]

Apparently this is the [H] pay day loan service as well....

Is heat able to be left in an instance like this per their rules?




If anyone wants the name of offender shoot me a PM. Not going to put it on blast yet unless this goes further..

Exchange of an item is a perquisite for heatware feedback, so no, you can't technically leave feedback.

 

[DooKey]

Exchange of an item is a perquisite for heatware feedback, so no, you can't technically leave feedback.

In this event I beg to differ. The seller received money and didn't ship and also didn't refund. The refund should have been immediate and in that case no heat to be exchanged.

This transaction requires that the OP leave negative heat for the seller for not shipping product and then failing to refund. The OP is not a bank and deserves his money back right away.

 

[thesmelliestsock.]

I've always felt VERY weird about touching a buyers money until I was able to confirm that they had received the product. And then even after that I'll usually give it a week or so before I withdraw the money from my PP account to make sure that they don't have an issue.

 

[m33pm33p]

In this event I beg to differ. The seller received money and didn't ship and also didn't refund. The refund should have been immediate and in that case no heat to be exchanged.

This transaction requires that the OP leave negative heat for the seller for not shipping product and then failing to refund. The OP is not a bank and deserves his money back right away.

Thats what Im thinking. Had the refund happened like it should have I wouldnt have care what so ever, things happen. This is just ridiculous though.

 

[Decimus]

Exchange of an item is a perquisite for heatware feedback, so no, you can't technically leave feedback.

A user backed out of the deal, can I still write an evaluation?

If one party backs out of the deal even after a verbal agreement has been made, NO evaluation can be given to either party. If no goods or money was exchanged, the "deal" is not eligible for evaluation. If you have received an evaluation for a "deal" that did not take place, please contact us.

Straight off their FAQ and since money was exchanged I take this to mean that you can leave heat.

In this event I beg to differ. The seller received money and didn't ship and also didn't refund. The refund should have been immediate and in that case no heat to be exchanged.

This transaction requires that the OP leave negative heat for the seller for not shipping product and then failing to refund. The OP is not a bank and deserves his money back right away.

Agreed to leaving negative heat. If it had been as simple as went to ship it but it didn't work so I am instantly transferring your money back is one thing but this is completely different.

 

[inglewood78]

Straight off their FAQ and since money was exchanged I take this to mean that you can leave heat.



Agreed to leaving negative heat. If it had been as simple as went to ship it but it didn't work so I am instantly transferring your money back is one thing but this is completely different.

Probably a grey area so should just ask heatware if it's appropriate.

 

[turb0]

i usually wait 30-45 days before I touch the money. This way I know paypal has taken their cut and ebay/amazon has taken theirs too.

sorry you went through this bud.

 

[m33pm33p]

Called CC company. They immediately refunded the money. Still out $16.95 that was paid through paypal.


OP Updated with Sellers forum name. The more I think about this the more BS it is. I'd rather no one else have this BS happen to them.

 

[MouseTrap]

I agree completely and this makes me wonder about all those F/S threads stating they need money for bills, house loans, unexpected trips & ect. "Low On Cash" selling there items to spend the funds immediately...
I think in some cases the money is spent before they even receive it and way before you receive the item.
Not saying this is all sellers but it is hard to know which ones???

 

[starhawk]

I had an almost-transaction with that seller myself. Offered me a $25 gift card for $15. Got a full refund the next day, with a message --in the refund, no PMs, which I thought was (very) slightly odd-- that she* couldn't find the card.

I followed up with a PM, to which she responded promptly, and we ended things amicably.

I'm going to shoot her a PM now to let her know about this thread.

*Judging by the name on the Paypal account, either the person is handling money with his wife's account (and, I would assume, permission) or is a female. I've seen both here... I'm suspecting the latter.

EDIT: just fyi I tend to have a similar sell/spend habit -- although tbh I hardly ever sell anything that's worth significant amounts of money -- and when I do, I make sure the other party really is happy before I spend. The most memorable occasion is when I sold Kyle Bennett an iPod -- I somehow misquoted the size and had to refund about half the money as a result. I was very glad, then, that I'd chosen to sit on the dough rather than spend it right away -- and I have a hunch that if I hadn't done that I wouldn't be able to type this right now

 

[m33pm33p]

I had an almost-transaction with that seller myself. Offered me a $25 gift card for $15. Got a full refund the next day, with a message --in the refund, no PMs, which I thought was (very) slightly odd-- that she* couldn't find the card.

I followed up with a PM, to which she responded promptly, and we ended things amicably.

I'm going to shoot her a PM now to let her know about this thread.

*Judging by the name on the Paypal account, either the person is handling money with his wife's account (and, I would assume, permission) or is a female. I've seen both here... I'm suspecting the latter.

The seller kept in good communication. In fact the only reason why I didnt say anything when he/she said "I cant refund till tomorrow" was because they had been easy to contact and did not seem like it was malicious.

However, after not receiving the money at the time the seller said I would and then having another exscuse...well...my patience can only go so far..

I also let the seller know about the thread. I wouldnt post something without someone being able to defend themselves

 

[starhawk]

I'd be quite surprised if it was malicious -- people doing that usually don't give refunds -- and when they do it's not with that kind of attitude. She seems pretty nice and well-intentioned to me

Personally, waiting one day for a refund is something I think I'd be able to live with, although more than that would be concerning and either way I'd want some details.

Different strokes for different folks tho.

All of that said... as my (retired attorney) mother often reminds me, "circumstances alter cases". Let's hear what dandbonline has to say before we draw conclusions.

 

[Gillbot]

I'd be quite surprised if it was malicious -- people doing that usually don't give refunds -- and when they do it's not with that kind of attitude. She seems pretty nice and well-intentioned to me

Personally, waiting one day for a refund is something I think I'd be able to live with, although more than that would be concerning and either way I'd want some details.

Different strokes for different folks tho.

All of that said... as my (retired attorney) mother often reminds me, "circumstances alter cases". Let's hear what dandbonline has to say before we draw conclusions.

I agree 100%. Should you spend the $ before shipping? No, but waiting a day or so for a refund isn't a big deal either.

 

[m33pm33p]

I agree 100%. Should you spend the $ before shipping? No, but waiting a day or so for a refund isn't a big deal either.

I find that's ridiculous. If this had been a few weeks and I was shipping something back yea..maybe. The seller had not even shipped the damn thing to me and the money was gone with him NOT being able to do a refund. Not because he wasnt near a computer or on travel but because he did NOT have the funds..

I'd be quite surprised if it was malicious -- people doing that usually don't give refunds -- and when they do it's not with that kind of attitude. She seems pretty nice and well-intentioned to me

Personally, waiting one day for a refund is something I think I'd be able to live with, although more than that would be concerning and either way I'd want some details.

Different strokes for different folks tho.

All of that said... as my (retired attorney) mother often reminds me, "circumstances alter cases". Let's hear what dandbonline has to say before we draw conclusions.

Which I did. He had 24 hours and IMO should not have even had that. This wasnt a case of wanting to return a product.

 

[teh_chem]

My $0.02. I agree that it's absurd to spend transaction monies before you've actually completed the transaction.

However, I don't think that this situation warrants filing a PP claim, and starting to contact their CC company.

Should you have to wait an extra day to get your money back for an item that wasn't even shipped? No. But dude, it's only a day. And the user is (or was?) communicative with you. Paypal already sucks to deal with. It's not like this person is telling you to go screw yourself. Filing a PP claim isn't going to get you your money any sooner. Have a beer (assuming you're of age), chill out, and don't be vindictive.

 

[okashira]

I always withdrawl the money IMMEDIATLY. Why leave it sitting in paypal?

Of course I have the cash in the bank to send a refund if necessary

Why not give the guy one day to give the refund? Maybe he is telling the truth, how is his heat?

 

[m33pm33p]

My $0.02. I agree that it's absurd to spend transaction monies before you've actually completed the transaction.

However, I don't think that this situation warrants filing a PP claim, and starting to contact their CC company.

Should you have to wait an extra day to get your money back for an item that wasn't even shipped? No. But dude, it's only a day. And the user is (or was?) communicative with you. Paypal already sucks to deal with. It's not like this person is telling you to go screw yourself. Filing a PP claim isn't going to get you your money any sooner. Have a beer (assuming you're of age), chill out, and don't be vindictive.

When someone tells me they cant refund me because they dont have MY money and dont have the item they were supposed to mail me. I start a paypal dispute. PERIOD.


If you'd like to refund me the money and Ill let him pay you back, I could chill?

I always withdrawl the money IMMEDIATLY. Why leave it sitting in paypal?

Of course I have the cash in the bank to send a refund if necessary

Why not give the guy one day to give the refund? Maybe he is telling the truth, how is his heat?

Ive already stated multiple times. He has had more than a day. He may very well be telling the truth. IDC. Im not the bank of m33pm33p.

 

[JoeUser]

I spend money all the time after I sell something...but of course I also know that I sell working items, pack them nice and good, and ship promptly.

Things like losing items or items not working before shipping has never happened to me personally.

I don't know, to each their own, but usually when I do sell stuff it's to get money for other stuff so waiting a month or so just isn't in the cards. Alas, I think it just has to do with the seller. If the seller is like me and takes pride in his sales and shipping then you rarely, if ever, end up with a bad deal.

I know that I have personally never ever sent out something broken or something that ended up broken.

 

[Superfly3176]

It may be hard for everyone on [H] to hear this. Since you all make 100k or so a year, buy 10k desks, hookers & blow, etc.

But some people live paycheck to paycheck. Sometimes things come up. Maybe the user had to sell the item to meet an unforseen bill. Then realized it wasn't working and doesn't have the cash at the moment. I agree it's shifty.



I was going to buy an item once off of another forum. We agreed on the price, he sent me the bill and it looked very fishy so I called him out on it. I know a scam when I see it blah blah blah. You realize how much it sucks to have to publically apologize for being wrong. But I was and I did.

 

[m33pm33p]

I spend money all the time after I sell something...but of course I also know that I sell working items, pack them nice and good, and ship promptly.

Things like losing items or items not working before shipping has never happened to me personally.

I don't know, to each their own, but usually when I do sell stuff it's to get money for other stuff so waiting a month or so just isn't in the cards. Alas, I think it just has to do with the seller. If the seller is like me and takes pride in his sales and shipping then you rarely, if ever, end up with a bad deal.

I know that I have personally never ever sent out something broken or something that ended up broken.

A month is a little too long. Once the seller says hes good I usually withdraw. At the very least youd expect them to have the funds on hand to refund.

The seller however didnt ship anything broken at all. He contacted before shipping and said it was broken. If it had been a significant amount of time since the sell took place than Id be a little more patient as Id tend to agree with your way of thinking.

 

[teh_chem]

When someone tells me they cant refund me because they dont have MY money and dont have the item they were supposed to mail me. I start a paypal dispute. PERIOD.


If you'd like to refund me the money and Ill let him pay you back, I could chill?

Look, I acknowledge you're upset. I also acknowledge that the guy is an idiot for spending money that wasn't rightfully his before completing the transaction. If I were to speculate--and it's entirely speculation--I could imagine a likely scenario where this item didn't actually exist in the first place, and a person could be exploiting a system like this to get a quick-advance on money. I'll redact that if anyone feels it's inappropriate.

But let's say that the item did actually exist, and was actually broken, and the seller suddenly noticed this when he was preparing it to ship. There was nothing done in bad faith up until that point, so I think it's very immature to go Paypal ballistic on them over a matter of $170 and 24 hours.

Maybe I don't have the right perspective on this--in my mind, this person has been communicative with you--and (without proof to the contrary) honest with you.

I do. I don't think you guys are understand the situation.



I paid for an item in full. A day and a half later seller PM's me telling me its broke and he will refund. Seller then PM's stating he is broke and cant refund till today at 2:00 PM EST. I wait till ~3PM EST and PM seller. Seller PM's back stating I don't have the money and am trying toFIGURE OUT A WAY to refund you in full.

If that doesnt set off the "o shit" signal, I dont know what does.


EDIT: Id also like to add that at 2PM he stated the above and said in a couple hours he would let me know something. I waited till 5:30 and had still not heard anything before I started a dispute.

Clearly nothing I'm going to say is going to change your mind, because opinions are like assholes; everyone has one, and everyone things everyone else's stinks. But you're not being very accommodating with someone who is (theoretically) working on getting your money back to you.

I'm glad I abandoned using paypal a long long time ago. Now I know I'll never have to deal with unreasonable people like you.

 

[starhawk]

...some people live paycheck to paycheck. Sometimes things come up. Maybe the user had to sell the item to meet an unforseen bill. Then realized it wasn't working and doesn't have the cash at the moment. I agree it's shifty.

This. Very much this. This is what I was thinking when I wrote my last post in this thread.

Also: some folks don't even have a paycheck. Or rather, they get their paycheck from Uncle Sam and it's called Disability or Retirement. I'm a little too familiar with that concept

 

[m33pm33p]

Look, I acknowledge you're upset. I also acknowledge that the guy is an idiot for spending money that wasn't rightfully his before completing the transaction. If I were to speculate--and it's entirely speculation--I could imagine a likely scenario where this item didn't actually exist in the first place, and a person could be exploiting a system like this to get a quick-advance on money. I'll redact that if anyone feels it's inappropriate.

But let's say that the item did actually exist, and was actually broken, and the seller suddenly noticed this when he was preparing it to ship. There was nothing done in bad faith up until that point, so I think it's very immature to go Paypal ballistic on them over a matter of $170 and 24 hours.

Maybe I don't have the right perspective on this--in my mind, this person has been communicative with you--and (without proof to the contrary) honest with you.

Clearly nothing I'm going to say is going to change your mind, because opinions are like assholes; everyone has one, and everyone things everyone else's stinks. But you're not being very accommodating with someone who is (theoretically) working on getting your money back to you.

I'm glad I abandoned using paypal a long long time ago. Now I know I'll never have to deal with unreasonable people like you.

Unreasonable? Ive had someone tell me that they have no way of paying me back $170 that is owed to me. He gave ME the deadline of today and I let it go. He didnt keep his end and Im still out money.

Im not being reasonable in any WAY SHAPE or FORM? I paid for an item that was never even shipped to me and now the guy who has money has no way of paying me back. Im glad you feel this way though, because I sure as hell wont be doing any business with you.



Let me put this clearly.

I don't care, even the tiniest bit if he is living paycheck to paycheck. Not at all. It's not my problem, period. Im not a bank, Im not loaning people money on the forums because theyre broke.


Quite frankly I dont care what you think. Im just putting it out there that there is someone on the forums who could do this again.

Im glad you're making so much money you can loan people on the forums as much as they need, but Im not.

 

[jbltecnicspro]

OP - I agree, that is ridiculous. How'd they spend the money so fast? Always wait until the buyer is happy until you take the money out.

 

[m33pm33p]

OP - I agree, that is ridiculous. How'd they spend the money so fast? Always wait until the buyer is happy until you take the money out.

Yep!


As an update. I have not heard anything back from the Seller since he was supposed to refund me yesterday. This is after I gave him after 24 hours and after he stated he'd get back to me in a couple of hours.




EDIT: Still nothing...Been over 48 hours now....

 

[m33pm33p]

Seller just responded to paypal dispute.


Seller is still trying to find a way to pay me back....

 

[Pringle]

Turning an [H] member into a loan officer...DEVIOUS

 

[Ruckus]

seller has been pmed lets keep this thread silent except for the op or the seller at this point so im not reading through pages of non related crap.

 

[peanuthead]

For what it's worth the seller has $60 of my money two days ago. They are not returning my messages either when I ask for a tracking number.

 

[m33pm33p]

For what it's worth the seller has $60 of my money two days ago. They are not returning my messages either when I ask for a tracking number.

He hasn't responded to my pm's since yesterday. Sure am glad I over reacted. I'd recommend you start the dispute now.

 

[TheMusketeer]

This is definitely a very devious way of borrowing money.

 

[m33pm33p]

3 days now without a refund. 2 days now with no PM's...

Going to escalate to a claim as soon as I can.. I really hope the seller was telling the truth however having not heard a PM back from him in 2 days and not responding to this thread leads me to think otherwise..

 

[m33pm33p]

Still no response, appears this guy is just another scumbag. Recommend staying far away...

 

[starhawk]

I've sent dandbonline an email -- Paypal gave me her email address along with the refund I got. I've asked her politely to post her side of the story here -- and I've also offered, as incentive, the $15 I paid her for the iTunes card -- the payment she refunded when she couldn't find the card. I've made it clear that she is to post here first, and that the $15 should be used to help pay back debts owed to members of this forum.

If a mod wants that email address, PM me and I'll gladly hand it over. (If it bounces in five minutes or something, I'll post that, too.)

I'm hoping this will get some sort of positive action going...

 

[peanuthead]

Thanks. I just want my gear and know it has shipped.

 

[m33pm33p]

I've sent dandbonline an email -- Paypal gave me her email address along with the refund I got. I've asked her politely to post her side of the story here -- and I've also offered, as incentive, the $15 I paid her for the iTunes card -- the payment she refunded when she couldn't find the card. I've made it clear that she is to post here first, and that the $15 should be used to help pay back debts owed to members of this forum.

If a mod wants that email address, PM me and I'll gladly hand it over. (If it bounces in five minutes or something, I'll post that, too.)

I'm hoping this will get some sort of positive action going...

The problem is, I told "her" about this posting 4 days ago and "she" hasnt responded to a single PM in 3 days now. What makes you think "she" is going to all of a sudden start? Good on you though starhawk, I appreciate man. Id much rather not be taking your money though, espcially knowing your situation. I sincerely doubt if this even happened that your money wouldnt be stolen as well..

Either way, Ill get my money back. Whether "she" pays me back or not will decide how far I go in making sure "she" doesnt have anything to do with any FS/FT forums that I know of and if I decide to contact higher authorities or not.

At this point in time I believe nothing short of the fact that "she" has STOLEN $170 of my money.


EDIT: Ill be escalating to a claim today as well..Ill keep details posted..