PC Gaming: Not Just Still Alive, But Still Dominant

CommanderFrank

CommanderFrank

Cat Can't Scratch It
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Well, there you have it; the word straight from the horse(s) mouth(s). A distinguished panel of developers at the PAX East conference discussed the future of PC gaming as a whole and pronounced it not only healthy, but robust.

Even as major computer OEMs produce numbers showing falling sales, the PC as a platform (and especially a gaming platform) actually shows strong aggregate growth.
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I am shocked that there has not been 50 replies to this thread already. :eek: Well, I have never thought PC gaming was dead but I also do not think it is better than the other options either, just different. Also, although I respect Chris Roberts, he has not yet produced a finished product and I am not going to run out and buy a 4K monitor to play a game when I have personally other things to do like competitive running. (That takes a lot of time and is fun as well.)

4K gaming will not be cheap for a long time to come. That and I do not want VR (Motion sickness sucks) and I do not want a online only multiplayer only game. (Now if Star Citizen has a single player game and I can purchase it for $60 or so, I would go for that.) Sorry but, spending money on something that is promised but not yet delivered is just not my thing.
 
The fact that both new consoles share similar architecture to the PC now is certainly a big boon also. In that regard, things look more promising now than they have any time in the last 10 years IMO.
 
cool.

I very much subscribe to the glorious PC master race thinking. When your Xbox one costs 400 dollars and is meant to last 10 years, do you REALLY expect it to be able to hold a candle to crossfire 290's or the new generation of GPU's that come out every 2 or 3 years?

Nothing wrong with consoles, they are a cheap easy plug and play way to enjoy some games, but it's not the most sophisticated or pretty thing out there, never will be either. I just think it's funny there are people out there that will try to argue how their Xbox One looks so so much better than anything else out there now.

As a 32 year old PC gamer we have been in a rut for a while it feels like, all I ever notice is the same shit repackaged and resold, there aren't many new fresh ideas out there right now. That combined with companies doing anything and everything they can to rape their consumer base for money... well it hasn't been pretty. The feeling I get from any of these big games now-a-days? They just want my cash, they couldn't give two shits about giving me an epic experience, they can pretend to, but I'd then get charged 9.95 for that DLC.
 
If the PC market was alive and robust, how come most of the games for and released on a console first and then ported to a PC as an afterthought? Sure people are still playing PC games, but the stuff that sells lots and lots of copies on the PC are cheap Angry Birds kinda games and not hugely successful titles...those end up on the console. The other problem with PC gaming (aside from hardware upgrades, drivers, operating system problems, and whatever other dumb things PCs introduce that people who play games on consoles don't) is that there's just nothing new. Sure you can take parts of this other game and parts of that game, dress it up with pointlessly "better" graphics and sell it plus some day one DLC for a few monies, but people aren't stupid. They know it's "like such-and-such" or another one of this other game they already played. Honestly, there's just no reason to play games on a computer, console, or anything else unless you're really, really bored and have nothing else meaningful to do with free time.
 
CreepyUncleGoogle said:
If the PC market was alive and robust, how come most of the games for and released on a console first and then ported to a PC as an afterthought? Sure people are still playing PC games, but the stuff that sells lots and lots of copies on the PC are cheap Angry Birds kinda games and not hugely successful titles...those end up on the console. The other problem with PC gaming (aside from hardware upgrades, drivers, operating system problems, and whatever other dumb things PCs introduce that people who play games on consoles don't) is that there's just nothing new. Sure you can take parts of this other game and parts of that game, dress it up with pointlessly "better" graphics and sell it plus some day one DLC for a few monies, but people aren't stupid. They know it's "like such-and-such" or another one of this other game they already played. Honestly, there's just no reason to play games on a computer, console, or anything else unless you're really, really bored and have nothing else meaningful to do with free time.
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There are WAY more games released on PC than consoles. Perhaps you meant AAA titles?
 
RedShirt said:
There are WAY more games released on PC than consoles. Perhaps you meant AAA titles?
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Yeah, the ones that really sell well and make money for the publisher so they can pay for more developers are console games. On PCs, the majority of gaming is casual stuff just like you find on cell phones or tablets. Those casual games make a ton of sales that go far beyond the big titles that are essentially all ported.
 
@Creepyunclegoogle:

Cause all these huge name companies are backed by old man fuddy duddy investors who believe only consoles can make money, thus, demand games to be made for them, and then ported to PC afterwards

This isn't helped by companies that blame pirates for when their games fail, who instantly blame the PC market for it when both PS3 and 360 and wii and every other console out there other than the PSVita, 3DS, PS4 and XbOne were just as pirated, but PC owners make the best scapegoats when it comes to companies trying to explain why Regurgitated Trash Game #807024380233 failed

PC owners have gotten the most flack so much over this that now PC releases are often delayed huge chunks of time, current example is Dark Souls 2 being over two months late for PC release, when STEAM is probably the best DRM on the planet right now, but still, if they didn't delay it, investors would have gone "But if we release it at the same time, then they'll just pirate the PC version and never play it!", thus, comes out on consoles first, PC later

Sad thing is PC gamers have proven to spend the most when it comes to gaming, last I read it was 14 fold over their console gamer counterparts, that's right, for every $10 a console gamer spends on gaming, PC gamers will spend $140.

Case in point, looking at my steam account, I've spent $389 in the last year on steam, $210 on Planetside 2, $170 in other various games outside of steam like Cube World, Hawken, Loadout etc etc, and that's just what I can look up easily. That's $769 dollars for games ALONE, not counting new PC hardware I've bought which would push that total well over the $1500 mark
 
ManofGod said:
I am shocked that there has not been 50 replies to this thread already. :eek: Well, I have never thought PC gaming was dead but I also do not think it is better than the other options either, just different. Also, although I respect Chris Roberts, he has not yet produced a finished product and I am not going to run out and buy a 4K monitor to play a game when I have personally other things to do like competitive running. (That takes a lot of time and is fun as well.)

4K gaming will not be cheap for a long time to come. That and I do not want VR (Motion sickness sucks) and I do not want a online only multiplayer only game. (Now if Star Citizen has a single player game and I can purchase it for $60 or so, I would go for that.) Sorry but, spending money on something that is promised but not yet delivered is just not my thing.
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It does, and has been being built from the beginning.

Pledgers get the single player and the online for less than retail.
 
It's a great time to be a PC gamer now, the consoles are all x86 based, basically budget gaming PCs, so anything made on a console is gonna be cheap and easy to port to the PC market, heck, it's most likely the primary development environment I bet.

I'm guessing it'd be bad business to not have a PC port of your AAA game, the one the company uses to showcase the gameplay before turning quality down for console ports, meaning MS and Sony would have to spend more to secure exclusives in order to promote their closed gardens.

But on the other hand they should enjoy the superior development tools producing more games for them, which would translate to more console/content sales, a win win for everyone.
 
Wierdo said:
It's a great time to be a PC gamer now, the consoles are all x86 based, basically budget gaming PCs, so anything made on a console is gonna be cheap and easy to port to the PC market, heck, it's most likely the primary development environment I bet.

I'm guessing it'd be bad business to not have a PC port of your AAA game, the one the company uses to showcase the gameplay before turning quality down for console ports, meaning MS and Sony would have to spend more to secure exclusives in order to promote their closed gardens.

But on the other hand they should enjoy the superior development tools producing more games for them, which would translate to more console/content sales, a win win for everyone.
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Except ports are usually half-assed...with shitty GUIs and crappy controls for anything not a console controller.
 
CreepyUncleGoogle said:
If the PC market was alive and robust, how come most of the games for and released on a console first and then ported to a PC as an afterthought?
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Today, more games are released on PC then Xbox One or PS4. The 360 and PS3 do get more games then on PC, but most of them are just delayed for PC. Whenever something is delayed for a platform, it's because of two reason.

#1 The company was paid a substantial amount of money. That means that Sony and Microsoft threw money in developers pockets to delay the PC release.

#2 Companies want to double dip in sales. GTAV for example was delayed but I can assure you it wasn't a technical reason. You could have GTAV on your PC right now if they wanted to. But they know you better then you do. You'll buy it for 360/PS3 and buy it again for PC. For Xbox One and PS4 owners, you'll probably buy it for that console as well.

Back in 2006, a lot of people talked about the death of PC gaming. Developers had no interest to work on PC gaming anymore, even though most of everything we play today is thanks to the PC. They saw dollar signs and moved their operations to console. ID software and Valve which were both traditionally PC gaming platforms, had even favored console back in 2006.

But things changed and even those companies want to move back to PC. Consoles weren't immune to piracy, as anyone who plays GTAV with hackers would have learned. Gamers often have no problem waiting for prices of games to drop to nearly piracy levels. Used game market is making it very unprofitable on console. Why you think Microsoft risked their Xbox business when they announced no used games for Xbox One, which they have since revoked?

So what changed?

#1 No used game market on PC. Or damn near irrelevant.
#2 Piracy on consoles are nearly as bad on PC, if not worse.
#3 Microsoft and Sony want 30% of sales, where on PC there's no cut of profits. Not unless you go with Steam or Origin. Even then it's not as bad.
 
CreepyUncleGoogle said:
Yeah, the ones that really sell well and make money for the publisher so they can pay for more developers are console games. On PCs, the majority of gaming is casual stuff just like you find on cell phones or tablets. Those casual games make a ton of sales that go far beyond the big titles that are essentially all ported.
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Most console publishers have been awash in blessed red ink for the last five years but there is a huge amount of marketing and hype behind console development. If you wanted to make money on your product the console market is a complete disaster, that's not the plan. In console land (some could say in giant publishing land) it's not about the games at all, it's about the investors, hype drives share values up and that creates black ink for the ones who hold a stake in a given publisher. After a while it reveals itself to be a terrible plan because eventually your investors are losing money along with your company since the profits are terrible (EA). At that point a publisher has to either continue to acquire other companies to add value (EA) or try to get back to it's roots and make games first (not EA).

Kerbal Space Program is probably one of the best games in the last 30 years but it was never going to generate the sort of hype necessary to make shareholders money. So it could never be made by any other means than through indie channels. That's why we see publishers swallow up and disassemble studios left and right, they get the hype train of an established franchise in the purchase, but the quality of the product doesn't affect share values in the short term. They remove the people that made the franchise what it is and rely on marketing to drive hype to increase earnings for their shareholders. "Casual" games like Halo or Call of Duty are what drive that market, it's all about that pack mentality and making your product the product to have. It's no different than overpriced purses or iPhones.

That's not to say there haven't been good games for consoles, but that's increasingly a happy coincidence as the games are utterly marginalised by the marketing and the platform. As long as PC gaming continues to be about the games and not the shares, it's just never going to be able to attract the sort of capital investment that drives the console market.
 
CreepyUncleGoogle said:
Yeah, the ones that really sell well and make money for the publisher so they can pay for more developers are console games. On PCs, the majority of gaming is casual stuff just like you find on cell phones or tablets. Those casual games make a ton of sales that go far beyond the big titles that are essentially all ported.
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Relatively stupid publishers, maybe, like EA...;) Give Valve a thought; then there's Kickstarter; then there's Gog; then there's the fact that while it takes Sony and Microsoft three months to sell four million consoles each, in every month of 2013--every single month--close to thirty million PCs were sold. In the first three months of 2014, more than seventy-five million PCs have been sold already--which is as much as xBox sold in a decade. So you go ahead and keep kidding yourself about consoles...:D The fact is that consoles today are PCs in every single sense of the word--cheap ones with low-to-mid-range processing power, for sure--but cheap, non-expandable, non-upgradable PCs nonetheless. The ubiquitous x86 PC has finally completely absorbed the "gaming console," and I think that's nothing but good news for console owners!
 
Says a panel of guys with a personal vested interest in PC gaming.
 
As someone who thinks video games on any platform are a total waste of time compared to hugging a cat, reading a book, or meeting with friends in person, I have a totally detached neutral view that isn't influenced by the number of dollars I wasted trying to make the most e-peen brag box/space heater evar.

If EA is so stupid, how come they continue to make the necessary money to release mega expensive titles? Someone has to be buying their stuff and if they're so dumb and awful, then their customers are worse.

Also PC sales numbers have nothing to do with game sales and its really not very thoughtful to try to throw that out as an argument in favor of PC gaming. The majority of computers sold aren't purchased with games in mind and are inexpensive, low-end machines for home use or are business/corporate purchases that'll never even see a web browser game. Conversely *every* console is purchased for playing games and the margin of profit on the games sold are higher along with there being much tighter control and prevention of piracy. There's so much more money in console games and it explains why so many publishers that have money and are successful use the PC as an afterthought.

I know PC gamers want to consider their hobby as the pinnacle of importance in the world, but business managers and accounting departments think otherwise. Their actions prove otherwise too. Pout and complain if you wanna, but it won't change reality.
 
CreepyUncleGoogle said:
Childish insults, name calling, and other drivel spewed from a position of imaginary superiority.
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I'll just assume that the Toxoplasmosis Gondii is causing that.

The money comes from investment capital, EA was lousy with it and they bleed money. It's much easier to woo an investor with promise of a fast buck timed around a big release than it is to woo a customer. That's why it's their focus, customers are a pain in the ass, an investor who makes 5% by investing in time for a big release and then sells before it bombs is perfectly happy. Your customer will be pissed though and won't forget it. EA has problems with both now, the company is floundering terribly from seven or eight years of doing just that. Their customer pool is shrinking and their pool of investors is shrinking because of their amazing commercial failure rate for the last four years. The NFL and FIFA used to be guaranteed money for them, now all of it is starting to look shaky.
 
Twisted Kidney said:
I'll just assume that the Toxoplasmosis Gondii is causing that.

The money comes from investment capital, EA was lousy with it and they bleed money. It's much easier to woo an investor with promise of a fast buck timed around a big release than it is to woo a customer. That's why it's their focus, customers are a pain in the ass, an investor who makes 5% by investing in time for a big release and then sells before it bombs is perfectly happy. Your customer will be pissed though and won't forget it. EA has problems with both now, the company is floundering terribly from seven or eight years of doing just that. Their customer pool is shrinking and their pool of investors is shrinking because of their amazing commercial failure rate for the last four years. The NFL and FIFA used to be guaranteed money for them, now all of it is starting to look shaky.
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At least read their public earnings statements before making up sources of income for them or discussing their monetary state of affairs. I'll even gives a linkies to help make it simpler.

http://investor.ea.com/releases.cfm?ReleasesType=Earnings

Call me back after you reviewed the last year or two and we can talk more. :D
 
Skripka said:
Except ports are usually half-assed...with shitty GUIs and crappy controls for anything not a console controller.
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The controls are probably gonna suck as always, yeah, they don't seem to like spending funds on proper mouse/kb controls lately.

But if the PC is development platform then the only reason to not release it would be MS/Sony sponsored exclusives.

Short story is a game developed for the two x86 based consoles is gonna run on the PC with minor effort. And at higher quality settings as a side bonus.
 
CreepyUncleGoogle said:
As someone who thinks video games on any platform are a total waste of time compared to hugging a cat, reading a book, or meeting with friends in person, I have a totally detached neutral view that isn't influenced by the number of dollars I wasted trying to make the most e-peen brag box/space heater evar.

If EA is so stupid, how come they continue to make the necessary money to release mega expensive titles? Someone has to be buying their stuff and if they're so dumb and awful, then their customers are worse.

Also PC sales numbers have nothing to do with game sales and its really not very thoughtful to try to throw that out as an argument in favor of PC gaming. The majority of computers sold aren't purchased with games in mind and are inexpensive, low-end machines for home use or are business/corporate purchases that'll never even see a web browser game. Conversely *every* console is purchased for playing games and the margin of profit on the games sold are higher along with there being much tighter control and prevention of piracy. There's so much more money in console games and it explains why so many publishers that have money and are successful use the PC as an afterthought.

I know PC gamers want to consider their hobby as the pinnacle of importance in the world, but business managers and accounting departments think otherwise. Their actions prove otherwise too. Pout and complain if you wanna, but it won't change reality.
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Oh, CUG ... you be trolling us again ... unless our hobbies are running soup kitchens for the poor or building houses for the homeless I doubt many people's hobbies are not a "waste of time" ;) ...

I think one of the benefits of PC gaming is that it supports a much wider range of titles than consoles ... it is much easier to play casual games or turn based games or strategy games on computers, as opposed to consoles (which are primarily more action oriented only) ... since I like to play computer RPGs and turn based games I can get my reading done (through extensive text on the screen), hold a cat while I play, as well as interact with friends (in-game or out) ... the pinnacle of multitasking :cool:

I like gaming as a stress reliever and semi-productive use of my free time (since I tend to play games that require more thought then just reflexes) ... I introduced my kids to both console and PC gaming but it is PC gaming that they have stuck with (and they do lots of outdoor activities as well) ... I think the key part of any hobby is that it should be fun (not necessarily productive) and for many PC gaming falls into the fun category :D
 
I'm just glad that the best of console gaming nowadays happens on PC, I hope it will remain the same in the future. My current best game ever is Tomb Raider, a perfect marriage of desirable console gaming principles applied to a far technologically superior PC environment.
 
The only thing I see as a downer for PC gaming going forward are games with increased internet requirements. Everything might work fine now but ~8 years from now when they shut down the back-end servers, will the game still work? We just recently had dozens of older games become unplayable when Gamespy went down. This is creeping into consoles a bit too but still much worse on the PC. Just imagine what happens when steam stops supporting older games, or even if steam itself went down for some reason.
 
GotNoRice said:
The only thing I see as a downer for PC gaming going forward are games with increased internet requirements. Everything might work fine now but ~8 years from now when they shut down the back-end servers, will the game still work? We just recently had dozens of older games become unplayable when Gamespy went down. This is creeping into consoles a bit too but still much worse on the PC. Just imagine what happens when steam stops supporting older games, or even if steam itself went down for some reason.
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Time to fight tha power!!! :eek:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkai...e-order-of-war-challenge-from-user-libraries/


http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3071895
 
caddys83 said:
Time to fight tha power!!! :eek:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkai...e-order-of-war-challenge-from-user-libraries/


http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3071895
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To be fair, just because Steam doesn't sell a game any longer doesn't mean that it doesn't still work on Steam ... there are pros and cons to online libraries (for me personally the pros far outweigh the cons) ... Steam has stated multiple times that should their service go under they would release everyone's games to be playable in offline mode (given their excellent track record of supporting their service I am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt on this) ... also, Steam is the dominant digital service for PCs so I don't see them going anywhere anytime soon (they appear to be healthier than ever) :cool:
 
caddys83 said:
Time to fight tha power!!! :eek:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkai...e-order-of-war-challenge-from-user-libraries/


http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3071895
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The Forbes article is from last year.

kbrickley said:
To be fair, just because Steam doesn't sell a game any longer doesn't mean that it doesn't still work on Steam ... there are pros and cons to online libraries (for me personally the pros far outweigh the cons) ... Steam has stated multiple times that should their service go under they would release everyone's games to be playable in offline mode (given their excellent track record of supporting their service I am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt on this) ... also, Steam is the dominant digital service for PCs so I don't see them going anywhere anytime soon (they appear to be healthier than ever) :cool:
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TBH, the only really huge titles removed so far are Fallout 1&2 and maybe the old Anno games...all the rest removed are either so badly done that they should never have been released or have been superseded by collector's editions.
 
CreepyUncleGoogle said:
As someone who thinks video games on any platform are a total waste of time compared to hugging a cat, reading a book, or meeting with friends in person, I have a totally detached neutral view that isn't influenced by the number of dollars I wasted trying to make the most e-peen brag box/space heater evar.
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I never understood the idea that reading is the gold standard for being intelligent. In games, high speed reading is a requirement, as a lot of games will often throw text at you. Especially in MMO type games, where talking to people is still primarily done through text.

I'm also not an animal person and most people I meet in life just try to use me to repair their stuff. Usually their computer.
If EA is so stupid, how come they continue to make the necessary money to release mega expensive titles? Someone has to be buying their stuff and if they're so dumb and awful, then their customers are worse.
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Same reason why you go and buy gasoline and complain about prices. You feel like walking, or bicycling to work?

A lot of great games are under the EA brand. Mostly because EA buys up studios and gives them the EA treatment. Even Blizzard is effected by Activition, even though they said Activision would play no part of their game development . Yet they have been adding microtransactions and start to put pay to play material in their games.
Also PC sales numbers have nothing to do with game sales and its really not very thoughtful to try to throw that out as an argument in favor of PC gaming. The majority of computers sold aren't purchased with games in mind and are inexpensive,
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Depends on the game. Minecraft, League of Legends, and DOTA2 will probably work fine in just about any PC made within the past 5 years. Now if we're talking about Call of Duty, Battlefield, and Crysis 3 type games then you would need something that at least has a dedicated GPU in it.

Most modern PC's are coming with better integrated graphics. The AMD A6-A8-A10 series has decent enough graphics, and even Intels HD 4000 would give AMD a run for their money. It's seriously not bad at all.

I know PC gamers want to consider their hobby as the pinnacle of importance in the world, but business managers and accounting departments think otherwise. Their actions prove otherwise too. Pout and complain if you wanna, but it won't change reality.
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Consider the problem that a lot of new games are making it to Xbone and PS4 last, and 360/PS3/PC first. For example the new prequel to Borderlands 2 is on 360/ps3/PC but no Xbox One or PS4 is in sight. Probably in year from now you'll see them on those consoles, but why is PC included right now and not those machines? Especially since they have nearly the same hardware as a PC. Cause PC makes them more money then the new consoles.

Also quote me on this, but by 2015 the Xbone and PS4 will go the way of the dodo. If they haven't then Microsoft and Sony must have done something drastic, like reduced prices or actually get some exclusive games.
 
I don't get it... i have so many games on my PC... i don't have time to play them all. i just now beat Diablo 2 on Nightmare. PC gaming is strong. Most console games look like GTA clones to me.
 
Also its a huge boon for PC gamers when the Consoles hardware is up to snuff. Now the DEVs can make the games for the PC then tweek down the details for the consoles. Means most AAA titles are on the PC as well.
 
GunzofNavarone said:
Also its a huge boon for PC gamers when the Consoles hardware is up to snuff.

Now the DEVs can make the games for the PC then tweek down the details for the consoles.
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Problem is the console hardware ISNT up to snuff -- PS4 and especially XBONE were already outdated upon release, this gen really wasn't much of a leap forward compared to previous gens.

And the problem with making games for PC and then toning down for consoles is that's nice in theory, but what ACTUALLY happens is they end up castrating the PC version so that the game plays the same regardless of platform - otherwise they claim they are having to maintain multiple games.
 
Um, the new consoles won't be outdated until there's another generation of consoles released that makes them obsolete. And if it's a big deal that you don't get to fully use expensive computer hardware because consoles aren't built with faster parts, then maybe it's time to either buy a console or spend less on PC hardware you know you won't really be able to benefit from fully compared to the cost.
 
I didn't see this thread earlier. I was busy gaming.. On a real platform. My PC.
 
DejaWiz said:
I didn't see this thread earlier. I was busy gaming.. On a real platform. My PC.
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Sooo...consoles are all imaginary? What happens when you touch one? Does it vanish in a little puff of console-y magic smoke like a ninja that just killed a pirate and is leaving to to celebrate by playing a guitar and kicking someone's mom in the face?
 
CreepyUncleGoogle said:
Sooo...consoles are all imaginary? What happens when you touch one? Does it vanish in a little puff of console-y magic smoke like a ninja that just killed a pirate and is leaving to to celebrate by playing a guitar and kicking someone's mom in the face?
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Pretty much.
 
Hard to believe that's even being argued here, of all places on the web. It doesn't stand for Organization for Console Pansies.
 
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