Nvidia surpasses Google, Now 3rd Most Valuable Tech Stock.

let's see if AMD can make a big jump as well...I bought AMD stock in December...went up $38 a share since...I don't think it'll reach Nvidia heights but as long as it can claim a piece of the pie then it should be fine
 
I don't see AI going anywhere anytime soon. It is a plague.

Yeah people said that about crypto as well. Nothing exponentially expands forever. When that happens the market will correct the price of Nvidia shares. It just about knowing when that timing will hit.
 
I know someone who dropped a large amount when it was around $50 a share. I haven't had the balls to ask him if he ever sold it.
 
Yeah people said that about crypto as well. Nothing exponentially expands forever. When that happens the market will correct the price of Nvidia shares. It just about knowing when that timing will hit.
This is astronomically different than crypto. AI is permeating the entire world right now and NVIDIA seems to be putting themselves at the direct center of it.
 
This is astronomically different than crypto. AI is permeating the entire world right now and NVIDIA seems to be putting themselves at the direct center of it.

Yeah that's what people always think and then history repeats itself. But you are welcome to buy at the currently massively over valued price of Nvidia right now and try to prove me wrong. AI is a hot buzzword right now, but at some point people are going to ask, why am I paying so much for it and does it really bring us benefits that outweigh the cost. Also if the world economy slips into a recession it will also end this rush as well as company will slam their wallets shut on such expenses.
 
Specialized for matrix multiplication compute instead of general cpu seem like it is here to stay, it seems so powerful.

Lot of its usage will stop being called AI soon and people will rapidly not find it strange to run that compute on specialized for it chips like for graphic would not be a surprising future, the cheaper and better it get the higher the demand will be at first, it is all hard to predict.

Also if the world economy slips into a recession it will also end this rush as well as company will slam their wallets shut on such expenses.

Could get 10 times cheaper really soon (the previous 10x price reduction where quite fast) and can be a deflationary force, could get both ways, replacing most of your customer service taskforce by AI will not be necessarily be seen as an expense (same for drivers, QA, etc...)

es%2F91d717cb-8062-4494-b3cb-8b25bb9e4e8f_1200x742.png
 
Last edited:
Crypto was being artificially inflated due to the mining aspect and flavor of the week BS currencies. Nvidia was literally selling direct to miners.

Generative AI OTOH is having active utility as widely seen. However I don't actually agree that it's a great thing broadly, since there's so much generative slop, particularly text-based but the important reason it's hot is since companies want to replace the human workforce, or cut it down as much as possible.

So recession or not that latter goal will keep such tech hot. It's dystopian, yes.

When large companies are saying AI will be utilized and trained for to assist with productivity and someone like the former Dreamworks CEO saying 90% of animators will be replaced in just a few short years it's clear what it really driving the push.
 
This is astronomically different than crypto. AI is permeating the entire world right now and NVIDIA seems to be putting themselves at the direct center of it.
They actually have for a long time. nVidia was pushing the "AI" bandwagon years ago when most of the industry didn't give a shit. DLSS is one example of a consumer tech that came out of that, it was real early to the game, and wasn't very good when it first debuted but they worked hard on it. The marketing back then was more "neural network" and "machine learning" and not so much AI as that hadn't become the buzzword but they've been pushing on it for a long time.

I can't hate on them for their success, this isn't a case of chasing the latest trend, this was them working for a long time and reaping the rewards.

That said, I feel like their stock is overvalued, but then I feel there are more than a few tech companies that are overvalued.
 
AI has some extremely promising benefits. As an example. AI writes better marketing copy than marketers. It can spit out pages and pages of copy with very few issues.

The difference being instead of the marketer needing to make up copy, instead it just needs a final sanity check by a human before going live. You can effectively replace tons of people's jobs just with that simple and easy to describe use case.

AI is here to stay, right now it's at the point where we need to find out exactly what its good at and where it's going to disrupt.
 
They actually have for a long time. nVidia was pushing the "AI" bandwagon years ago when most of the industry didn't give a shit. DLSS is one example of a consumer tech that came out of that, it was real early to the game, and wasn't very good when it first debuted but they worked hard on it. The marketing back then was more "neural network" and "machine learning" and not so much AI as that hadn't become the buzzword but they've been pushing on it for a long time.

I can't hate on them for their success, this isn't a case of chasing the latest trend, this was them working for a long time and reaping the rewards.

That said, I feel like their stock is overvalued, but then I feel there are more than a few tech companies that are overvalued.
Yes, I know. Their foresight is paying off in droves.

As for being overvalued, that seems to be the case for most stocks.
 
Yeah that's what people always think and then history repeats itself. But you are welcome to buy at the currently massively over valued price of Nvidia right now and try to prove me wrong. AI is a hot buzzword right now, but at some point people are going to ask, why am I paying so much for it and does it really bring us benefits that outweigh the cost. Also if the world economy slips into a recession it will also end this rush as well as company will slam their wallets shut on such expenses.
I mean AI really isn't AI in the way that most people think of it. AI is just a marketing term. I'm not buying anything. I don't play the stock market. I feel a worldwide recession is highly probable at this point.
 
I don't see AI going anywhere anytime soon. It is a plague.
I am ignorant and I don't know what happened. Why did "AI" explode into news, marketing, investing, etc? I just never bothered to dig into it. Anyone care to chime in to educate a know-nothing?
 
I am ignorant and I don't know what happened. Why did "AI" explode into news, marketing, investing, etc? I just never bothered to dig into it. Anyone care to chime in to educate a know-nothing?
ChatGPT. That's what did it. There are plenty of other important and useful developments in machine learning that have been happening for a long time, like DLSS/FSR, car assisted driving, etc, etc. However what made it news for the masses was GPT 3. Here was a chatbot that, to many untrained observers, seemed to be truly "intelligent" to actually pass the Turing test. That generated a huge amount of hype and news. Then, people started over applying it to everything. There were tons of "AI startups" that just slapped a wrapper on ChatGPT, companies laid off employees and replaced them with chatbots, often with quite bad repercussions, etc, etc.

The ability of LLMs to generate text, images, whatever is something that fascinated people and made them convinced real AI was here, and the frenzy started.
 
Crypto was being artificially inflated due to the mining aspect and flavor of the week BS currencies. Nvidia was literally selling direct to miners.

Generative AI OTOH is having active utility as widely seen. However I don't actually agree that it's a great thing broadly, since there's so much generative slop, particularly text-based but the important reason it's hot is since companies want to replace the human workforce, or cut it down as much as possible.

So recession or not that latter goal will keep such tech hot. It's dystopian, yes.

When large companies are saying AI will be utilized and trained for to assist with productivity and someone like the former Dreamworks CEO saying 90% of animators will be replaced in just a few short years it's clear what it really driving the push.

Problem with Dreamworks thoughts, is the current "AI" can't really think, it's taking lots of known content and causing a slight spin on it. So at first people might like the art style but after a bit they will notice it's all kind of looks like the same style just slightly different in multiple films. Without imagination it will be severely limited by what it can do but it can replicate something very well. I have seen fan art which has obviously been distorted by AI, but it's painfully obvious what it was based on. But who knows maybe they will create Skynet and none of will really care anymore. No business really wants to replace their entire work force, because if they all did that, no could buy their stuff. Also I expect regulations will come down soon as well.
 
So at first people might like the art style but after a bit they will notice it's all kind of looks like the same style just slightly different in multiple films.
In terms of pure animation though (not generative art) I've seen neural network models from a year and a half ago animate armatures automatically (albeit unpolished), so it just depends if the pace keeps up to where replacing humans like that in the near future is actually viable.

It's possible progress will plateau in certain areas and the market won't be as bullish about the potential to replace as many as hoped (or there's enough leverage among those pushing back), bringing it back somewhat on topic.

Even Jensen in an official press release was saying that the next generation of kids need not study computer science since generative models will help them program what they want instead, which is frankly a crazy thing to be saying from a company built on insanely talented software engineers.
 
I am ignorant and I don't know what happened. Why did "AI" explode into news, marketing, investing, etc? I just never bothered to dig into it. Anyone care to chime in to educate a know-nothing?
There was a major issue with system getting bigger that made the back error propagation or something of the sorts being such a small proportions of the total weights make them stop to work.

In 2017 a paper became public that create a revolution called attention is all you need:
https://arxiv.org/abs/1706.03762

It changed training cost and how big model could be and how general the system can be and particularly useful for large language model, once GPT 3 was made easily available to the public it became the fastest growing application in the history of software I think, accelerating even more (having a lot of people-company fearing to be left out if they do not get good at it and other buzz) that already growing fast affair since google Alpha Go project type made things quite popular.
 
Last edited:
Do you mean the number of users, or what?
Yes, users after x first month of commercial existance, apparently:
ChatGPT was widely seen as the fastest-growing consumer internet app of all time after its launch nearly a year ago, notching an estimated 100 million monthly users in just two months

Facebook back in the days took around 4 years to reach that level of adoption, Instagram 2.5 years, etc... The effect on stackoverflow traffic and school work was immediately felt.
 
You mean stackoverflow dotcom, the web site?
Yes:
F4CnhcMXgAA72gj.jpg


Which was first because of the more technical target audience of a general problem, if you can skip search and have the "google->scroll->click link->read among non answer text to have your answer" you will do it, but then what are the incentive for someone to put it on the web for the AI to learn it to start with.
 
Yeah people said that about crypto as well. Nothing exponentially expands forever. When that happens the market will correct the price of Nvidia shares. It just about knowing when that timing will hit.
Any stock professional will tell you that they can't really time the market. If they can't do it, what chance to us poor shlubs and wage slaves have of doing that?
 
Even Jensen in an official press release was saying that the next generation of kids need not study computer science since generative models will help them program what they want instead, which is frankly a crazy thing to be saying from a company built on insanely talented software engineers.
That is pure, unadultarated s---, designed to hype the stock price and stoke demand for AI hardware. Someone I know who is a developer tried to get ChatGPT to write some programs. Terrible results. "Cliff Clavin" style of programming, he called it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cliff_Clavin
 
could be oversaid, but no it is really not about any timing at least if you go Buffet style.

Think about Nvidia, people can easily think too late in 2021 should have went pre-crypto, too late 12 month ago should have went pre gpt 3 release, etc....

Nothing exponentially expands forever.
depends what you mean at the current rate, no or in 30 years what the world can be, but look at the world internet traffic, it has been growing rapidly unstop since 1990

al-bandwidth-usage-region-2017-2022-Stackscale.jpg.jpg


This could be just that, the next Internet, there could always have room for more "intelligence" and compute.

Many people called the Internet will never work or a bubble at first, never went away, never stopped to growth really fast yet, many buzz-bubble not just popped down but went completely away, the pass does not necessarily help that much to predict the future.
 
Last edited:
That is pure, unadultarated s---, designed to hype the stock price and stoke demand for AI hardware. Someone I know who is a developer tried to get ChatGPT to write some programs. Terrible results. "Cliff Clavin" style of programming, he called it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cliff_Clavin
ChatGPT is not to program, in 15 years the amount of difference with the prehistoric early stuff of that genre, trying to code in language-system not made with their existance in mind. Often GPT trained on code without seeing the result of that code

This is already much better:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSnsmqIj1MI

My feeling it will be like when compiler started to be good and promising in the late 70s, people started to say you will not need to code anymore simply writing your program in basic like english and the computer will do the jobs, which for many of the program people made in assembly was not much of an exaggeration, but programs just got magnitude more complicated once the tool to make them got better and the same will happen for the current kids generations, programming will be different than now but will still be called programming and still quite difficult, the programs will just have got incredibly more complex.
 
That is pure, unadultarated s---, designed to hype the stock price and stoke demand for AI hardware.
Results vary wildly in terms of robustness but yeah. It's unfortunate, too, from the implication of 'stay uneducated' since our products will do these things for you. These things abstract entirely away the logic and thinking involved in such tasks that I'm not sure what the user learns besides knowing where to go for answers. Sure it's useful (when it works) but how is that competitive for the types of things that run the world, at least in the timeframe implied.

Here's the full PR quote, for fairness. Interpret it as one may.

Huang even countered advice offered by many visionaries over the years who urged young people to study computer science in order to compete in the information age. No longer.

“In fact, it’s almost exactly the opposite,” Huang said. “It is our job to create computing technologies that nobody has to program and that the programming language is human: everybody in the world is now a programmer — that is the miracle.”
 
from the implication of 'stay uneducated' since our products will do these things for you.
Assembly did that for machine language, than programming language-compiler for assembly, etc... it depends where we put the line and it will be quite subjective.

Someone programming part of is video game logic using Blueprints from Unreal Engine that already extremelly far away from entering machine code.

Or one of the many website editors, is that quite different than telling an AI while drawing with a pen on a piece of paper your phone (or glasses) can look at. It will maybe not change how many people need and still use low level C, it will just make it so that everyone can make a website, a phone app, an list of computing event when they receive some type of emails just by talking to their computer describing what they need, tiktok turned anyone in short film maker, this will turn everyone in basic small app maker. Just the best most creative will turn out something special.
 
Assembly did that for machine language, than programming language-compiler for assembly, etc... it depends where we put the line and it will be quite subjective.
Just to clarify my position, I don't have any issue with people using such abstractions for getting something done, even down to just natural language prompts. It's just Jensen's quote is specifically addressing the types of people who would be considering studying computer science, ie: they've self-selected to learn about logic and the lower level workings of how computers operate to try and gain the best understanding for the field, yet he's saying that's (soon to be) unnecessary to be competitive to other programmers. That to me is the wild thing.

Or I'm just being too uncharitable with the interpretation 🤷‍♂️
 
Last edited:
Just to clarify my position, I don't have any issue with people using such abstractions for getting something done, even down to just natural language prompts. It's just Jensen's quote is specifically addressing the types of people who would be considering studying computer science, ie: they've self-selected to learn about logic and the lower level workings of how computers operate to try and gain the best understanding for the field, yet he's saying that's (soon to be) unnecessary to be competitive to other programmers. That to me is the wild thing.

Or I'm just being too uncharitable with the interpretation 🤷‍♂️
I feel you are perfectly right, but the kids that would be deterred by such comments is probably the one that will end up at high level anyway, the one that will learn not for a job in mind but because of a interest in learning will still be there.
 
let's see if AMD can make a big jump as well...I bought AMD stock in December...went up $38 a share since...I don't think it'll reach Nvidia heights but as long as it can claim a piece of the pie then it should be fine
Hehe, I told everyone I knew to buy AMD when it dipped below $1. Myself, I don't purchase any tech stocks, because you know, conflicts of interest etc. And I am someone that never wants to get on the wrong side of the SEC.
 
Yes:
View attachment 636888

Which was first because of the more technical target audience of a general problem, if you can skip search and have the "google->scroll->click link->read among non answer text to have your answer" you will do it, but then what are the incentive for someone to put it on the web for the AI to learn it to start with.

I mean, I feel like Stack Overflow kind of did that to itself.

It's fine if you treat it as a read only library of data. And mostly God awful to actually interact with. I think there's numerous reasons for this, but they're none the closer to doing anything meaningful about it and the site will almost certainly disembowel itself before anything is ever done.

It is hilariously frustrating to put significant time into posting what you believe is a detailed and legitimate question, only to have it marked as a dupe because it fractionally related to something that was posted a decade ago and is so incredibly out of date that it's completely irrelevant in practice.

Meanwhile ChatGPT is the polar opposite. It's great to rubber duck against, it'll never get mad, and you can ask it any follow up fearlessly no matter how "dumb" it is and you'll get instant feedback without any weird ass gatekeeping or toxicity.
 
I mean, I feel like Stack Overflow kind of did that to itself.

It's fine if you treat it as a read only library of data. And mostly God awful to actually interact with. I think there's numerous reasons for this, but they're none the closer to doing anything meaningful about it and the site will almost certainly disembowel itself before anything is ever done.

It is hilariously frustrating to put significant time into posting what you believe is a detailed and legitimate question, only to have it marked as a dupe because it fractionally related to something that was posted a decade ago and is so incredibly out of date that it's completely irrelevant in practice.

Meanwhile ChatGPT is the polar opposite. It's great to rubber duck against, it'll never get mad, and you can ask it any follow up fearlessly no matter how "dumb" it is and you'll get instant feedback without any weird ass gatekeeping or toxicity.
YUP. SO is a great resource if you can find your question already answered, and if the technology you're asking about is relatively static. But heaven help you if you try to ask a new question, or if best practices have changed since a question was originally asked/answered. Sometimes you can find a good update in a comment on an answer explaining "this was correct, but don't do it like this any more"...sometimes you're left needing to know the specific technology well enough to make that discernment. I teach folks how to use Spring at work, and there's lots of SO posts filled with knowledge of how to do something with Spring a decade+ ago, when it was all configured with XML files...and getting good information on more modern practices is appreciably more difficult. Or answers that give you an answer on how to do something with Java circa Java 7 or 8...and disregard the newer stuff. Still a good resource, but has so much more potential. ChatGPT will produce crap much of the time, but at least it'll patiently sit there and let you ask your question over and over with any phrasing you want until you luck into something it "understands".
 
Yeah people said that about crypto as well. Nothing exponentially expands forever. When that happens the market will correct the price of Nvidia shares. It just about knowing when that timing will hit.

The difference between AI and crypto is that AI has tangible, measurable benefits. Crypto is largely a gambling tool. Yes, crypto has some excellent technological innovations, but even the most ardent Bitcoin religious follower is still unable to accurately define what it is and how we’re going to use it. AI is not that. We know how to use it, we know where it will be useful, we know what it will take to get there. What we don’t know is who will lead us there. Right now, it looks like Nvidia. That can change if someone out-innovates them, but they have a huge head start.

You can argue the stock has gotten ahead of itself, but I don’t see this as a crypto situation in my opinion.
 
You can argue the stock has gotten ahead of itself,
100 P/E is aggressive obviously but, up 265% in revenue, the evaluation is at 28.57x time the current pace annual gross profit, AMD is at 25x time with a 340 PE, Netflix at 17.9x, not that far away while being no near those growths.

Because there is a strong feeling that NVIDIA pace is completely unsustainable, those margin cannot stand the competition in the next 18 month will be giant and they should get down even if the AI demands continue to explode. Because at that pace, they would have bigger quaterly revenue than the latest apple result in less than 2 years with 3 time Apple operating income by that time..... both their growth and margin are absurd, their very soon upcoming drop is tried to be priced in.

One difference with crypto is that the natural competition (a third party that both people involve in the transaction trust) can get better both in technology and trust, big natural crypto market like Argentina can suddenly get a working currency again (or the right to use USD again) and has Etherum 2.0 has shown the need for compute can drastically change.

Same could happen with big matrices multiplication compute, but if it get just easier to do people will use AI much more, being a difference, there is almost no limit to how much it will be used and the cheaper the more use people will find, but maybe something like the 2017 paper happen in a paradigm shift on how compute work and shift what people use to do it.
 
Last edited:
That is pure, unadultarated s---, designed to hype the stock price and stoke demand for AI hardware. Someone I know who is a developer tried to get ChatGPT to write some programs. Terrible results. "Cliff Clavin" style of programming, he called it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cliff_Clavin
ChatGPT can do trivial stuff pretty well. I asked it to create a tool that does the same thing one I wrote several years ago: I had 2-color bitmaps that had white borders around them that I needed to get rid of the border. ChatGPT could make a program that does that fairly well, but it couldn't handle the extra stuff I wanted: drag and drop multiple files, process them, rename the file from "whatever.bmp" to "whatever - original.bmp", and then save the new, cropped file with the original name. I haven't tried doing recently, though.
 
The difference between AI and crypto is that AI has tangible, measurable benefits. Crypto is largely a gambling tool. Yes, crypto has some excellent technological innovations, but even the most ardent Bitcoin religious follower is still unable to accurately define what it is and how we’re going to use it. AI is not that. We know how to use it, we know where it will be useful, we know what it will take to get there. What we don’t know is who will lead us there. Right now, it looks like Nvidia. That can change if someone out-innovates them, but they have a huge head start.

You can argue the stock has gotten ahead of itself, but I don’t see this as a crypto situation in my opinion.
AI is not akin to crypto, but it is akin to the dot com boom. We still use the web and it's more prominent then ever. The same will happen with AI. Unlike the creation of the web which created a lot of jobs, the AI boom has the potential to take away a lot of jobs. Which creates a problematic economy where suddenly people are losing jobs due to AI, which reduces the purchase power of people. Who's going to buy these products when AI took their jobs? AI is making money now because right now people still have their jobs.

Look at what AI can do now with just typing in a description.

View: https://youtu.be/tRSdt5kmeW0?si=axKYeLIXvdYEjwx8

Compared to less than a year ago with AI creating Will Smith eating spaghetti.

View: https://youtu.be/XQr4Xklqzw8?si=mzvnSwCg1a-jwanl
 
Back
Top