Nice to see ATI soundly on top again.

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fallguy said:
Most review sites dont lower the quality setting to get a higher score as most people do when running 3dmark.
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Never even considered changing that setting. Though to answer your accusation it was set on Quality when the benches were run.
 
Moloch said:
Hmm
What happens when I goto tech report :confused:
OMG ATI IS WINNING
Before you ask, both are running 61.77
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He was referring to the fact that some sites have shown the 6800GT/U to be faster in CS:S with 61.77, a several month old forceware driver. Given the increase in benchmark scoring between 61.77 and the current unofficial drivers I believe that the conclusion he is implying is that there would be an even larger performance disparity for the 6800GT/U's over the X800 series.

Here's a link at FiringSquad matching Cat4.9betas vs. Forceware 65.76:
FiringSquad Sapphire X800XT Review

If you take a look the 6800U beats the X800XTPE in the HL2:VST (a more rigorous bench) across AA/AF settings on 800,and 1024 resolutions and then loses out on the 1280 and 1600 resolutions. On the following page in the CS: Source benchmark with full AA and AF the 6800U wins out on every resolution.
 
Good. Because I was seriously thinking the ad wizards at ATI had come up with a way to run detonator drivers. :p Look here's the thing. At many different resolutions and at many different visual quality levels, the cards beat each other back and forth. Me? I only play at 800x600 or 1024x768, and whether or not I use AA or AF really depends on the type of game or whether or not I just really care to. I haven't lost the fact that games are supposed to be played, not scrutinized.

Therefore that makes all this mumbo-jumbo back-and-forth meaningless for not only me, but for the others like me that really just like to play at whatever specific preferences they enjoy. Honestly, how many here really play all their games at varying resolutions/quality levels, back and forth all day long? I bet not too many. Therefore an ATI card "winning" specifically in D3D at 1600x1200 with 8xAF and 4xAA really means completely NOTHING to me and others guys like me that either don't have a large monitor or don't want to squint to read the HUD in some games. :) Therefore, we all need to really quit this crap of stating which card is the Master of the Universe over the others because at the end of the day we don't control how the users use it. THEREFORE, lets just stick to advising people on what they should get for the games they like to play and the resolutions/visual levels they like to play at. Sorry guys, I vote against handing out the Video card E-penis awards this year...
 
I usually stick with 1024 or 1152 to be honest unless it's a really old game (then I like to see my card beat to tatters some DX7 or DX8 engine hehe). And unless I'm doing a fast multiplayer bout I'll only settle for maximum image quality.
 
SocketA said:
I bought a X800pro for $329 at compusa modded it to a XT PE capable of running at 540/570..Hey Nvidiots you wan to talk about value?? There is not clear winner this round it's a flat out tie between the XT PE and Ultra. I chose ATI because the 9800pro was the clear winner last round and I didnt want to have to purchase another power supply. By the way Tom's Hardware is a great site!
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So nvidiots don't know value? 6800 from outpost.com for $250 + new rivatuner unlocking 4/1 pixel/vertex shaders + overclocking goodness = bad value? :confused:
 
BattleMaster said:
So nvidiots don't know value? 6800 from outpost.com for $250 + new rivatuner unlocking 4/1 pixel/vertex shaders + overclocking goodness = bad value? :confused:
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whats the success rate on those?
 
I think the real solution to this debate is to win the lottery and make 4 computers, each one with a different card.....Then you can say you're rich and your video card(s) is/are better than anyone elses, even better than ATI and Nvidia's.....


The new 512mb parnhelia is gonna rock your friggin world fanchildren--along with my voodoo 3.
 
thrawn42 said:
He was referring to the fact that some sites have shown the 6800GT/U to be faster in CS:S with 61.77, a several month old forceware driver. Given the increase in benchmark scoring between 61.77 and the current unofficial drivers I believe that the conclusion he is implying is that there would be an even larger performance disparity for the 6800GT/U's over the X800 series.

Here's a link at FiringSquad matching Cat4.9betas vs. Forceware 65.76:
FiringSquad Sapphire X800XT Review

If you take a look the 6800U beats the X800XTPE in the HL2:VST (a more rigorous bench) across AA/AF settings on 800,and 1024 resolutions and then loses out on the 1280 and 1600 resolutions. On the following page in the CS: Source benchmark with full AA and AF the 6800U wins out on every resolution.
Click to expand...
I dont care about some, I care about good respectable sites, and tech report has my vote.
Has ati shown improvements in speed?
I don't know that ati done either, and given it's an ati game, I don't think ati would let them selves become number 2.
 
Moloch said:
I dont care about some, I care about good respectable sites, and tech report has my vote.
Has ati shown improvements in speed?
I don't know that ati done either, and given it's an ati game, I don't think ati would let them selves become number 2.
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Its going to be close just like the other games, the only way ATi will pull ahead is with shader optimizations.
 
joecuddles said:
I'm not sure why everyone who owns an NV card points to Doom 3 before anything else. I mean, really, that game was shit, barely lasted 15 hours. Can't wait to see the ATI fans come out of the woodwork when HL2 is out. And then the NV fans will just complain about how ATI fans are only talking about that one game. Hahaha, the chaos of computer hardware people :)
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I agree. Doom 3 is a very good tech demo, but in terms of gameplay it is very poor. I bought the game last month and still haven't finished it cause it just doesn't hold my interest. Didn't even come close to the amount of hype built up for the game.
 
xenogears said:
I agree. Doom 3 is a very good tech demo, but in terms of gameplay it is very poor. I bought the game last month and still haven't finished it cause it just doesn't hold my interest. Didn't even come close to the amount of hype built up for the game.
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I thought the game play was just fine, the story was weak thats about it..... Mulitplayer is fun to, just a bit different from other mulitplayers.
 
rancor said:
I thought the game play was just fine, the story was weak thats about it..... Mulitplayer is fun to, just a bit different from other mulitplayers.
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The thing with doom is that the atmosphere was very good for the first few hours of the game and gave a good scary feeling. However, it quickly became mundane and too much of it is just artificial by just placing you in complete darkness, then having something jump out at you. It quickly became boring and not scary anymore, cause you expect it. It just doesn't have the scary atmosphere that games like silent hill and resident evil had. So because the story is non existent and the gameplay was poor, once the atmosphere goes, there is no compelling reason to keep playing the game.
 
rancor said:
the only way ATi will pull ahead is with shader optimizations.
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Please don't make it sound like nV is so inocent in this "optimization" crap. ATI is just starting to do what nV has done for years. :rolleyes:
 
xenogears said:
I agree. Doom 3 is a very good tech demo, but in terms of gameplay it is very poor. I bought the game last month and still haven't finished it cause it just doesn't hold my interest. Didn't even come close to the amount of hype built up for the game.
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I'm with you on this one! The only way I will now play it is via loading whatever level I want to play that day. Other than that, it's boring.
 
SocketA said:
I bought a X800pro for $329 at compusa modded it to a XT PE capable of running at 540/570..Hey Nvidiots you wan to talk about value?? There is not clear winner this round it's a flat out tie between the XT PE and Ultra. I chose ATI because the 9800pro was the clear winner last round and I didnt want to have to purchase another power supply. By the way Tom's Hardware is a great site!
Click to expand...
Value eh? I bought a 6800 for $239, used RivaTuner for the softmod and have 16 pipes 6 vertex shaders and all my games run at least as fast as the refresh rate at native resolution on my LCD monitor, so, I saved about $100 over what you paid to put towards a new card that I'll buy someday when your X800 is too slow to run the latest game fast enough.
 
I'm not going to waste my time getting involved in this pointless squable over which card is .1% faster then the other at resolutions and settings most people dont even play at but if you want to see a clear cut case of getting owned its in Linux. Each day Linux becomes more and more popular and with the proper gaming support it could easily rival Microsoft's Windows.

http://www.anandtech.com/linux/showdoc.aspx?i=2229&p=7

ATI really needs to get a driver team that can do something other then "optimize" for a few D3D games.
 
cs:source runs better on ati

nuf said

in the end only one game ever counts

coutner-strike
 
burningrave101 said:
I'm not going to waste my time getting involved in this pointless squable over which card is .1% faster then the other at resolutions and settings most people dont even play at but if you want to see a clear cut case of getting owned its in Linux. Each day Linux becomes more and more popular and with the proper gaming support it could easily rival Microsoft's Windows.

http://www.anandtech.com/linux/showdoc.aspx?i=2229&p=7

ATI really needs to get a driver team that can do something other then "optimize" for a few D3D games.
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who the hell uses linux?

I dont know ONE person
 
R1ckCa1n said:
Please don't make it sound like nV is so inocent in this "optimization" crap. ATI is just starting to do what nV has done for years. :rolleyes:
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How does that make it right?

Anyway, at least now we can turn the opts off if we want to. Oh, wait....
 
trungracingdev said:
who the hell uses linux?

I dont know ONE person
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Clearly the people you know are basic users instead of the enthusiast market then. I'm in a GPU chat over at nV News right now where probably more then half of the people use Linux.

In terms of everything but gaming support, Linux is far superior.

I wouldn't even consider anything before Windows 2k to even be an actual operating system.
 
burningrave101 said:
In terms of everything but gaming support, Linux is far superior.
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Yup, just because it doesn't have "ubber" games doesn't mean that it sucks. The way those people talk make Windows into nothing more then an "advanced" NES, lol.

I wondering when a mod will step in and close this retarded thread.
 
If Linux is so great, why after all these years is the majority of the populous not using it? Good God its even free, and still not mainstream.



Huh huh, nuf said.
 
Moloch said:
I dont care about some, I care about good respectable sites, and tech report has my vote.
Has ati shown improvements in speed?
I don't know that ati done either, and given it's an ati game, I don't think ati would let them selves become number 2.
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Yeah because FiringSquad isn't a respected site.... :confused:
 
thrawn42 said:
Yeah because FiringSquad isn't a respected site.... :confused:
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I just like tech report better, 100 times better, I mean fireingsquad is a gamers site, do you really want a gamer reviewing stuff, or do you want someone with technicle knowledge about hardware?
 
Ramfart said:
If Linux is so great, why after all these years is the majority of the populous not using it? Good God its even free, and still not mainstream.



Huh huh, nuf said.
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we got nerds like burning supporting it

linux is hanging on by a thread...

I consider myself an enthuasist. Computers is my hobby. I read about it for fun. Never even contemplate using linux.
 
Ramfart said:
If Linux is so great, why after all these years is the majority of the populous not using it?
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The "populous" doesn't know how to use it, nor do most of them want to learn. They know Windows, Windows does what they want, they like Windows.

And this "populous" you speak of buy most of their comps from Dell and Compaq. I doubt the average Dell user could give a flying bantha poodoo about Linux.
 
trungracingdev said:
we got nerds like burning supporting it

linux is hanging on by a thread...

I consider myself an enthuasist. Computers is my hobby. I read about it for fun. Never even contemplate using linux.
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Use linux for 1 week you will know why its so damn good, first off there are less "holes" in Linux, better support for it, cross platform application developement is a snap, us "nerds" know how to install it. This is why it hasn't and may never be adopted as well as Windows because 99% of the people don't know how to install Linux. Its not easy to do, but definitly worth the effort.

This jpg hole in sp2, would be fixed in Linux in a week after it was found. Thats the nice thing about being open source, bugs are found and fixed quickly because unlike Windows where MS has their 1000 people on bug fixing, Linux has 10,000 people doing it for free.

Another example Apache server so far there has only been 1 major hole in it and it was fixed 2 days after it was found.

BTW more then 60% of the servers that run webpages and do e-business are run on linux boxes!
 
R1ckCa1n said:
Please don't make it sound like nV is so inocent in this "optimization" crap. ATI is just starting to do what nV has done for years. :rolleyes:
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Not saying nV hasn't done it before, but this round its all about ATi's optimizations, why are they doing it now, are they feeling the heat? I think they are, and nV is the one creating the fire. ATi has to do something to keep the edge, and they ran out of things to do.....
 
nvidiaj.gif
 
Moloch said:
I just like tech report better, 100 times better, I mean fireingsquad is a gamers site, do you really want a gamer reviewing stuff, or do you want someone with technicle knowledge about hardware?
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That's a tough call, techie vs. gamer and not so clear cut and certainly not mutually exclusive groups as you seem to imply. But if you want to get technical then the proper test at that "generation" of drivers is Forceware 61.77 vs. Catalyst 4.7. The FiringSquad results are more accurate toward present specifications which are Catalyst 4.9 vs. Forceware 65.76. And even that driver matchup is old at this point.
Make no mistake about it, when you're talking about ~0-10 FPS difference between testing results drivers can play a big role.
 
hey im a techy and a gamer i run both Windows XP Pro for gaming and Gentoo 64bit for every thing else and i have my old hardware running SuSE as a file server whats cool is that with linux i only have power and network pluged in to that box and i can just telnet or VNC in to it :cool: but yes the avg. enduser has no want or need for Linux or any "Unix Like" os the bigest thing holding back the enduser is the console Shell if you cant get over useing comandline shells like bash your not going to get any were with it though SuSE does make linux ALMOST as easy to use as windows and still lets you use the shell to do things buy hand
windows and MacOS have conditioned the enduser into HAVEING to use point and click
most endusers would have trouble using the DOS prompt in windows let alone the Linux comandline just my .02 :D
 
burningrave101 said:
Clearly the people you know are basic users instead of the enthusiast market then. I'm in a GPU chat over at nV News right now where probably more then half of the people use Linux.

In terms of everything but gaming support, Linux is far superior.

I wouldn't even consider anything before Windows 2k to even be an actual operating system.
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That's shocking, since people who existed before Linux (obviously not you) would consider anything that allows you to interoperate with the computer to be a OS.

Thanks for showing your age though.

From what I've seen, the only people who can waste time with Linux are (1) old schoolers who came from Unix and are familiar with wasting endless amounts of time dicking around in the CLI or (2) teenagers with absolutely nothing productive to do with their time and thus spend their endless amounts of hours learning Linux.

Thanks but no thanks. I can roll out of a multi-workstation Windows environment faster than any Linux build, and have it easier to use for end-users. This "far superior" system you talk of must only exist in your head.

-MrD
 
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