New X3D BIOS Rolling Out - ASUS, ASRock, More (AM5, X670/B650)

learners permit said:
Was thinking 7800X3D but this thread has me thinking wait and see what happens. MSI X670P 7700X has been very good so far with a single bios update that went very well and has been quite painless and fast. The cpu soc voltage was quite high initially 1.35V manually set it to 1.2 and idle temp dropped nicely and 0 stability issues so don't know what happened there. Downloaded some bios updates to try out but have had no issues other than stupid high SOC voltage. Wondering which agesa seems to be the most painless for the 7800X3D. Perhaps this group could form a consensus on that to save others the trouble of multiple bios updates?
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For whatever my opinion is worth - I’ve had zero issues for gaming with any of the BIOS.
 
Domingo said:
I'm on the latest beta from ASUS. I'm not experiencing any differences on the surface, which I suppose is ideal. AMD's version of EXPO (vs. ASUS's) still won't post with the default settings. Luckily ASUS's version seems totally fine. It's so strange how many BIOS settings are duplicated. Some work, some don't. Hopefully my CPU isn't cooking itself under there :p
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Makes me think I should stay on BIOS 0805 (delivered with the motherboard and 100% stable) until ASUS sorts out this mess.
 
philb2 said:
Makes me think I should stay on BIOS 0805 (delivered with the motherboard and 100% stable) until ASUS sorts out this mess.
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I would check soc voltage to make sure it's not unreasonably high phil. Mine was unnecessarily high so I manually set it from 1.35 down to 1.2 and have had 0 stability issues and lower idle temps.
 
I figured I should chime in on my personal experience here. Snagged my 7800x3d and Asus b650e-f about 3 weeks ago, and finally got around to my build this weekend.

Assembly was just fine and all, but I got no POST with my gskill 2x32GG kit. Ended up having to EZ FLASH the bios to 1604 (I think, might be 1602, im on mobile, sorry), but either way, a beta BIOS. I encountered thr DRAM LED light stall on my boots until I flashed.

After that, win11 install occurred and I'm still sorting that mess out...

Once I get established then we'll start messing with the expo profiles and getting the RAM running at 6000.
 
For what it's worth, ASUS's EXPO I has been bulletproof on my B650E-F. It's also way, way easier to find than the alternate EXPO option buried under "AMD Overclocking."
I stand by this build being about as trouble free and stable as any I've had, I'm just concerned about the voltage/heat issues described in the GN videos. It sounds like that could be an obscure thing (akin to the 4090 "plug-gate"), but it's hard to tell. I guess if mine is gonna get fried I'd like for it to happen sooner than later. At least right now AMD says they're taking care of people. I'd hate to have all of these issues hit in a few years when I'm about to sell this thing.
 
Domingo said:
For what it's worth, ASUS's EXPO I has been bulletproof on my B650E-F. It's also way, way easier to find than the alternate EXPO option buried under "AMD Overclocking."
I stand by this build being about as trouble free and stable as any I've had, I'm just concerned about the voltage/heat issues described in the GN videos. It sounds like that could be an obscure thing (akin to the 4090 "plug-gate"), but it's hard to tell. I guess if mine is gonna get fried I'd like for it to happen sooner than later. At least right now AMD says they're taking care of people. I'd hate to have all of these issues hit in a few years when I'm about to sell this thing.
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There are issues, to be sure - but IMO it’s way overblown. As a user on all my desktop systems they’re all super stable and solid.

But I get it - as a dude looking at tech news today you’d be hard pressed to want to jump to AM5. Even if the Micro Center bundle is $50 cheaper now…
 
Domingo said:
For what it's worth, ASUS's EXPO I has been bulletproof on my B650E-F. It's also way, way easier to find than the alternate EXPO option buried under "AMD Overclocking."
I stand by this build being about as trouble free and stable as any I've had, I'm just concerned about the voltage/heat issues described in the GN videos. It sounds like that could be an obscure thing (akin to the 4090 "plug-gate"), but it's hard to tell. I guess if mine is gonna get fried I'd like for it to happen sooner than later. At least right now AMD says they're taking care of people. I'd hate to have all of these issues hit in a few years when I'm about to sell this thing.
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GN also clearly denotes in their video that you are very unlikely to encounter this problem on your own. It is the culminating result of very specific circumstances, and if you stay on top of the BIOS releases, even these receive a lot of mitigation. They obviously haven't found THE fix yet (because they keep pushing out BIOS updates), but I wouldn't sweat it. Just check for BIOS updates every couple of weeks or so for a bit.

On the other side, Asus in particular has been playing fast and loose with CPU voltages for quite some time now - and now it is biting them in the @$$ a bit. Good. They need the wakeup call that this is not acceptable behavior, especially in motherboards that approach 1/2 to 3/4 of my monthly rent payment.
 
learners permit said:
I would check soc voltage to make sure it's not unreasonably high phil. Mine was unnecessarily high so I manually set it from 1.35 down to 1.2 and have had 0 stability issues and lower idle temps.
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Good point. I'm away until Wednesday so I have to wait until then.
 
I have not built my am5 kit yet (probably next Saturday, I'm still waiting for my PSU) but gigabyte's recent bios update that was posted on May 5th (F8E) includes this blurb

Follow AMD guidance to limit max. SOC voltage to 1.3V for Ryzen 7000 series X3D and non-X3D CPUs. Certain EXPO/XMP memory performance may be impacted due to this change.

that is giving me some pause. I ended up purchasing two different ram kits. Initially I bought some corsair vengeance (hynix) that supposedly runs @ 6000mhz with timings of 30-36-36-76 at 1.4v but I changed my mind and also ordered a pack of gskill trident z5neo (hynix) that is supposed to run @ 6000mhz with timings of 30-38-38-96 at 1.35v. There's not much difference between 1.35v and 1.4v. I was planning on returning the corsair ram since I have not opened it.

I'm a bit weirded out by this because I'm no longer sure on which kit is ultimately going to be better. I suspect the difference is extremely minimal, and the corsair ram was significantly more expensive. But with SOC voltage being limited at 1.3v this whole thing really just seems like a poor excuse for them to dishonor warranty. I guess I just can't wrap my head around how ram is marketed now. Gigabyte for example lists their ram speed as "support for" and it lists anything above 5200 as OC. But anyone buying ram is only ever going to be marketed to the speeds using AMD EXPO and it gives it this appearance of being manufacture supported. It just feels so dishonest to me.

​

 
sk3tch said:
But I get it - as a dude looking at tech news today you’d be hard pressed to want to jump to AM5. Even if the Micro Center bundle is $50 cheaper now…
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So glad I jumped on the $470 pricing error for my wife's pc. Now she just needs something to use 12 cores on lol.
 
Domingo said:
I'm on the latest beta from ASUS. I'm not experiencing any differences on the surface, which I suppose is ideal. AMD's version of EXPO (vs. ASUS's) still won't post with the default settings. Luckily ASUS's version seems totally fine. It's so strange how many BIOS settings are duplicated. Some work, some don't. Hopefully my CPU isn't cooking itself under there :p
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EXPO II is working fine for me.
AlphaQup said:
I figured I should chime in on my personal experience here. Snagged my 7800x3d and Asus b650e-f about 3 weeks ago, and finally got around to my build this weekend.

Assembly was just fine and all, but I got no POST with my gskill 2x32GG kit. Ended up having to EZ FLASH the bios to 1604 (I think, might be 1602, im on mobile, sorry), but either way, a beta BIOS. I encountered thr DRAM LED light stall on my boots until I flashed.

After that, win11 install occurred and I'm still sorting that mess out...

Once I get established then we'll start messing with the expo profiles and getting the RAM running at 6000.
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For what it's worth, mine booted fine the first time, but I used flashback to install 1602 before first boot. No issues running the EXPO II profile at 6000 MT/s. I've only gotten started hacking Windows 11 apart.
 
Domingo said:
For what it's worth, ASUS's EXPO I has been bulletproof on my B650E-F. It's also way, way easier to find than the alternate EXPO option buried under "AMD Overclocking."
I stand by this build being about as trouble free and stable as any I've had, I'm just concerned about the voltage/heat issues described in the GN videos. It sounds like that could be an obscure thing (akin to the 4090 "plug-gate"), but it's hard to tell. I guess if mine is gonna get fried I'd like for it to happen sooner than later. At least right now AMD says they're taking care of people. I'd hate to have all of these issues hit in a few years when I'm about to sell this thing.
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Apprecaite the feedback! Glad to hear you're having a positive experience with EXPO, and I'd tend to agree the issue is sounding to be a bit overblown.

Armenius said:
EXPO II is working fine for me.

For what it's worth, mine booted fine the first time, but I used flashback to install 1602 before first boot. No issues running the EXPO II profile at 6000 MT/s. I've only gotten started hacking Windows 11 apart.
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I considered starting with 1602 before attempting to boot first but I still like the old adage "If it ain't broke..." + I didn't like the idea of going right to a Beta BIOS. I was worried I managed to get another bad DIMM (I do seem to be a bit unlucky here, on my 3rd set of Dominator Platinum's...) but lucked out that wasn't the case.

I let the PC go overnight downloading my steam stuff + Adobe CC products, and I'm about to the point where I get to address everything I don't like in Win11. For as little as I've used it, it's a damn long list :mad:
 
AlphaQup said:
Apprecaite the feedback! Glad to hear you're having a positive experience with EXPO, and I'd tend to agree the issue is sounding to be a bit overblown.


I considered starting with 1602 before attempting to boot first but I still like the old adage "If it ain't broke..." + I didn't like the idea of going right to a Beta BIOS. I was worried I managed to get another bad DIMM (I do seem to be a bit unlucky here, on my 3rd set of Dominator Platinum's...) but lucked out that wasn't the case.

I let the PC go overnight downloading my steam stuff + Adobe CC products, and I'm about to the point where I get to address everything I don't like in Win11. For as little as I've used it, it's a damn long list :mad:
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I just pointed Steam and GOG to my old installation locations. Battle.net has that option, too. Newer stuff I moved to the new drive to take advantage of its speed. Unfortunately I don't know how to do that with EA App or Ubisoft Connect.
 
Back in the day it used to take me several days to reinstall all my stuff with the right settings and such. These days I'm done in a few hours. The key is to keep all of your games and launchers one one folder.
In my case, that's just C:\Games\
It's also handy to keep a copy of your entire AppData folder and My Documents folders. That's where a shitload of settings files are hiding.
When I start up a new install I install Steam, the EA App, Ubi Connect, Battle.net, etc. After that, I overwrite everything with my backup copies. Most of 'em will just see your files, verify them and you're golden. If they don't - tell it to start downloading the file. Then pause it, close the program, dump your game folder in there again, and then see if it recognizes everything.

I don't know of a way to speed up the Adobe CC install process, BUT you can install all of them at once. I just tell it to install the dozen or so programs I need and then walk away. It usually only takes 20'ish minutes to get everything.
 
Armenius said:
I just pointed Steam and GOG to my old installation locations. Battle.net has that option, too. Newer stuff I moved to the new drive to take advantage of its speed. Unfortunately I don't know how to do that with EA App or Ubisoft Connect.
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Usually I would do something similar, but in this case I finally went NVME + retired most of my old Crucial MX500's and installed 2 new ones... honestly nothing on the single drive I couldn't just redownload quick.

About the only thing I wanted to save was my modded Witcher 3 install, but since the RT patch + including the texture overhaul mod + those few other prominent ones, I would have had to start over anyway most likely. No big deal.

My thought was I haven't started fresh since my 7700k... I was due to start over :D

Domingo said:
Back in the day it used to take me several days to reinstall all my stuff with the right settings and such. These days I'm done in a few hours. The key is to keep all of your games and launchers one one folder.
In my case, that's just C:\Games\
It's also handy to keep a copy of your entire AppData folder and My Documents folders. That's where a shitload of settings files are hiding.
When I start up a new install I install Steam, the EA App, Ubi Connect, Battle.net, etc. After that, I overwrite everything with my backup copies. Most of 'em will just see your files, verify them and you're golden. If they don't - tell it to start downloading the file. Then pause it, close the program, dump your game folder in there again, and then see if it recognizes everything.

I don't know of a way to speed up the Adobe CC install process, BUT you can install all of them at once. I just tell it to install the dozen or so programs I need and then walk away. It usually only takes 20'ish minutes to get everything.
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I hate dragging old junk forward (like AppData for example) and wanted a clean start like I said. It'd been 5 years.... I was due!

The Adobe Suite wasn't near as bad as I thought, although I only installed what I knew I'd need up front (mainly PS, Illustrator and Acrobat Pro), I'll install the rest later as needed.

But anyway... I continue to get some weirdness when enabling my EXPO II 6000MT profile. Computer didn't boot after enabling it (more DRAM light stalls at boot, including some brief periods of the red Proc light, that worried the fuck out of me), had to pull the CMOS and reset it. Set it back to EXPO II 6000 and finally it booted right up. Couple more reboots since then and no issues... going to have to keep an eye on it. Windows now wants to do the feature 22h2 update now too :rolleyes:
 
What was really fun though was my performance in CPU-limited games! I'm a huge Natural Selection 2 fan still, and pegging 300 FPS it felt even more smooth then it did on the 7700k. Only game I've fired up so far, but the difference was very noticeable.

Going to fire up RDR2 here soon, and also Witcher. Can't wait to see how Novigrad and the other large cities react.
 
Fired up The Callisto Protocol this morning before work. The hard stutters I was getting with the 9900K were almost completely gone. I just have some small stutters when a new area is streaming in. It's installed on the SN750 currently, so I wonder if moving it to the SN850X will improve it even further. It was the same story in The Witcher 3. The stutters were not as bad in that game with max settings on the 9900K, but now the game is completely smooth. FPS still drops into the 40s at times without DLSS, so I am running DLSS Quality. Needless to say, I'm a happy camper.
 
Armenius said:
Fired up The Callisto Protocol this morning before work. The hard stutters I was getting with the 9900K were almost completely gone. I just have some small stutters when a new area is streaming in. It's installed on the SN750 currently, so I wonder if moving it to the SN850X will improve it even further. It was the same story in The Witcher 3. The stutters were not as bad in that game with max settings on the 9900K, but now the game is completely smooth. FPS still drops into the 40s at times without DLSS, so I am running DLSS Quality. Needless to say, I'm a happy camper.
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If you’re ASUS - I’ve heard Armoury Crate can introduce gaming stutter. I’ve experienced it and still need to uninstall it to test. I’ve tried everything else, lol.

I doubt any modern SSD would be the culprit but I’m no expert!
 
sk3tch said:
If you’re ASUS - I’ve heard Armoury Crate can introduce gaming stutter. I’ve experienced it and still need to uninstall it to test. I’ve tried everything else, lol.

I doubt any modern SSD would be the culprit but I’m no expert!
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I didn't install any of the ASUS software 😉
 
The worst thing about Armoury Crate is that you have to disable the damned software from the BIOS. Otherwise it keeps trying to re-install itself. If you install some of ASUS's driver packages, they re-introduce it, too. You have to stick to updating from Device Manager. This is my first ASUS board in like 15 years and I was shocked at the amount of effort required to avoid it.
 
Domingo said:
The worst thing about Armoury Crate is that you have to disable the damned software from the BIOS. Otherwise it keeps trying to re-install itself. If you install some of ASUS's driver packages, they re-introduce it, too. You have to stick to updating from Device Manager. This is my first ASUS board in like 15 years and I was shocked at the amount of effort required to avoid it.
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I saw that when I was going through the BIOS and disabled it before installing Windows.
 
Appreciate the info on Armory Crate... I didn't have it disabled in the BIOS, but will be doing that when I get off work. I installed it, realized the BS that it was and uninstalled it. The amount of bloat from every product is already staggering. NZXT for my LED's, iCUE for the Corsair AIO, EVGA Precision for the 3080 LED's, DAS software for keyboard, Logitech Hub for the G-Pro mouse and headset... (I'm glad I typed that out, its worse then I thought!). Part of me wants to consolidate to 1 eco-system but at the same time, I haven't found one that just works, they're all so finicky.
 
sk3tch said:
We are all not fighting programs over 8GB of RAM these days too lol.
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Fighting programs over 8G of RAM, says he... lol. You don't know hell until you finagle your MS-DOS install to let you have 596K of free base RAM while STILL keeping a mouse driver and a CD-ROM driver installed.



God, I'm old...
 
Now there's an F5c. Note #5. There are probably memory profiles that can't be stable at 1.3. Look, that's honestly not really a problem as most kits that have issues at "only 1.3" soc are bleeding high perf that don't buy you much on an AMD CPU anyway but what is a problem is that kits were developed, sold, validated and marketed as working and now maybe they don't. That's the problem.

Me? I'll be happy once they just nail down a stable bios with all the memory control features working then I'll go back to working up a permanent memory OC.

  1. Checksum : 0395
  2. Update AMD AGESA 1.0.0.6
  3. Support DDR5 48GB/24GB high capacity DIMMs
  4. Fix TPM 2.0 potential vulnerabilities
  5. Follow AMD guidance to limit max. SOC voltage to 1.3V for Ryzen 7000 series X3D and non-X3D CPUs. Certain EXPO/XMP memory performance may be impacted due to this change.
 
learners permit said:
Wow anyone read the comments section over there at wccf. Toxic as cherynobyl meltdown site.
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Yup, that site is okay for news blips but the comments section over there is probably second only to Yahoo on the "do NOT read" list.
 
I'm still sticking with my moderately early MSI Bios because the board pretty much ties SOC voltage to RAM voltage. My 7950X has been happy to run with an SOC of 1.35V since day one and the RAM, being a 6400MT 64GB kit, is undervolted to 1.35V at a speed of 6,000.

Updating to some of the newer BIOS files, if they cap the SOC voltage at 1.3 this would seem like it would do bad things for trying to use my existing RAM... not to mention my existing negative voltage offset and CPU clocks.
 
New Agesa 1.0.0.7a beta bios available from MSI today, at least for the b650 tomahawk

I haven't updated to them, I'm still on the 7D75v15 bios from March 27th, PC is running fantastic and I don't want to mess with beta bios if I don't absolutely have to. When the 1.0.07a bios are out of beta, I'll go for it.
 
Looks like ASUS dropped the "you're voiding your warranty" text from their BIOS update pages. Nothing new has been posted, though. In fact, most boards don't even have the 1.0.0.7a BIOS's that were originally posted in the overclock.net forums. Probably lends some support to the report that there are b and c variations incoming.
 
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Domingo said:
Looks like ASUS dropped the "you're voiding your warranty" text from their BIOS update pages. Nothing new has been posted, though. In fact, most boards don't even have the 1.0.0.7a BIOS's that were originally posted in the overclock.net forums. Probably lends some support to the report that there are b and c variations incoming.
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So if you want to upgrade an old X670e ROG BIOS, which one would you use, if stability is a key value?
 
Just be warned, Asus probably won't cover a warranty issue if you are on a "beta" bios even if they provide it.
 
Unless you totally kill the motherboard, you can always flash it to another BIOS even without a CPU. You can always try to kill your CPU/Mobo so Steve from Gamer's Nexus will buy it off you and even pay for shipping ;)
 
philb2 said:
Even a beta BIOS?
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The betas are the only ones that fix the voltage issues. Well...at least some of the issues. That's the current catch 22, though. ASUS has told people to download and install the beta BIOS's all while pasting "Beta BIOS's nullify your warranty" on the pages where you can get 'em. They DID remove that text over the weekend, though.
 
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