More Intel Optane Memory Reviewed

FrgMstr

FrgMstr

Just Plain Mean
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If Intel Optane Memory interests you, and god knows we have been marketed to death by Intel over the last few months, Allyn "Flacid Tart" Malventano, the brains behind everything-memory at PCPer is on the case.


Finally! Optane Memory sitting in our lab! Sure, it’s not the mighty P4800X we remotely tested over the past month, but this is right here, sitting on my desk. It’s shipping, too, meaning it could be sitting on your desk (or more importantly, in your PC) in just a matter of days.

Allyn's review is more than worthy of a good read, and it looks as though he has left no stone unturned. If you have purchased a Z270 chipset motherboard and a Kaby Lake CPU recently, you already have a system that can very likely take advantge of Optane memory through the M.2 slot on your motherboard. This is a hard launch as well and you can purchase Optane today. And the cost might just make you pull the trigger if you are running spinning disk drives. That said, Allyn did find that there were some small benefits for SSD users as well.

While the intended market is clearly as an upgrade to HDD-only systems, measurable benefits can be seen even when caching a SATA SSD. When paired with a budget SATA SSD, we saw boot times cut in half and coming in nearly a second faster than a NAND-NVMe SSD!

So while things look really good for Optane, this is probably going to be a product that does not carry a lot of interest for the upper-level enthusiast....which may be why Intel has never contacted HardOCP about the product.
 
Saw the reviews... not impressed.

Basically the thing turns your entire system into a hybrid SSD (assuming you are still using mechanical storage as a C:) If you happen to still be in the year 2000 and using mechanical drives, but somehow happen to have an M2 slot that supports optane... sure you will see a great boost. For only $40 more than a basic 256GB optane stick, you can get a 500GB SSD (intel isn't known for dropping price fast either)

If you are already running an SSD then you won't see lighyears gains in a desktop environment. There is only one or two situations where this would be half useful for a consumer level user. Server side this would be far more useful where budgets can more easily absorb things like this. Dollar for dollar I'd rather spend the money on a PCIe M2 SSD (Love my Samsung 950 Pro 500GB stick)
 
I would like to see more comparisons to the ramdisk because their "Bridging the Gap" chart shows a ramdisk has lower latency and Optane memory is coming to DDR4 slots. It's interesting that one of these can make a slow sata ssd faster than a nvme ssd. I don't see much of a consumer speed benefit over a nvme ssd, but a 1TB 850 Evo Sata SSD + Optane is about $200 dollars cheaper than a 1TB 960 Pro nVME SSD. However, I would feel unclean if I built a new Kaby Lake system and bought a sata ssd for the sole purpose of using optane.
 
I think Intel missed with this one. It's a pretty small market segment that would benefit from Optane, and Intel limited compatibility to an even smaller segment that probably doesn't care about Optane.
 
When I got a z270 board I went nvme m.2. for my OS drive, SSD for my game drive, and black drives for storage. Oddly, optane is not for someone like me.
 
Got z270 board, 7700k, nvme ssd (OS), two SSDs in RAID 0 for games, and four 4TB HGST NAS drives. I do not plan to get this at all. Now, I do see this possibly getting better as the prices of the chips drop and they cram more of them on there. I can see them easily outperforming an nvme ssd, the problem is...the bus. Also...when will it happen?

For now, great for some with a hdd and want a speed boot. Too bad, ppl with those setups probably aren't sporting the requirements for Optane.
 
I'm really struggling to see the point of this. (I'm not bashing Optane Memory here, just this product, and especially the totally useless and pointless 16GB version of it)

1.) the product is gimped by low transfer speeds over the PCiE bus
2.) the 32GB version is the only one that anyone should bother about, thus raising the cost of entry
3.) if you can afford the high level of requirements to get this thing installed and working, you can afford an SSD, if you can't, go get a paper-round for a month. Seriously, who runs a Kaby Lake CPU on a new motherboard, only to connect it to a spinning hard disk, and cannot afford an SSD of any kind?

Did I miss anything?
 
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While the intended market is clearly as an upgrade to HDD-only systems, measurable benefits can be seen even when caching a SATA SSD. When paired with a budget SATA SSD, we saw boot times cut in half and coming in nearly a second faster than a NAND-NVMe SSD!
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Cut in half? So that's a saving of only a few seconds. Of course, my PC is on 24/7 anyway.
 
eh, 16-32gb versions? what are these for? and are unavailable so how much? and again, why?
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I said this before. It's a product that makes no sense for the market and customers Intel is supposedly intending it for. OEMs making cheap PCs that skimp on components such as 21st century storage options are not going to be bothering to install a $20 part (their cost) and configure it for a customer that doesn't care cos they are buying a cheap PC.

Its like offering a deluxe supercharger option for a Chevy Spark.
 
Hitti2 said:
eh, 16-32gb versions? what are these for? and are unavailable so how much? and again, why?View attachment 23026
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According to anandtech, $77 for the 32GB optane module. Which is of course absurd as they point out you can get a 250GB samsung 960 evo for $140 and just boot from that with your applications and not have to be concerned about only having 32GB of data cached.

Then there's the fact that Intel has a 128GB nvme SSD available for $71, that you can use with their SRT drive on just about anything(like older systems so long as you have the nvme support) and use 64GB of that for caching.

Basically it's a massive waste of time all around, because anyone concerned about performance can get a larger SSD for just as much if not a little more that actually offers a usable capacity for a practical configuration. https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/201...make-revolutionary-technology-totally-boring/
 
The consumer market is full of idiot buyers...don't be shocked if they still sell a lot of these. If you're an OEM, you can put a slow ass 2TB hard drive in your machine, one of these jobbies, slap a "INTEL OPTANE" sticker on the outside, and people will think it's the next best thing to slice bread when they take it home and it's lickety split fast until the cache space is all used up. And then they'll take it back into Best Buy for service because it's slow now, and Best Buy can sell them on more RAM or MORE Optane or whatever and the cycle of consumer electronics can continue.
 
Pusher of Buttons said:
The consumer market is full of idiot buyers...don't be shocked if they still sell a lot of these. If you're an OEM, you can put a slow ass 2TB hard drive in your machine, one of these jobbies, slap a "INTEL OPTANE" sticker on the outside, and people will think it's the next best thing to slice bread when they take it home and it's lickety split fast until the cache space is all used up. And then they'll take it back into Best Buy for service because it's slow now, and Best Buy can sell them on more RAM or MORE Optane or whatever and the cycle of consumer electronics can continue.
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Yeah, it really only makes sense as a cheap upgrade for cheap OEMs that they just need to screw into place. Either as an option or "aftermarket" going forward since well... most OEM built PCs currently in use aren't even going to support this thing(or even have a port assuming the support for it wasn't locked to kaby lake).
 
Still so ridiculous they quashed Z170 support for this launch. Systems from two years ago are much more likely to have benefitted from it and I don't believe there's any physical limitation in place on those boards. I can't for the life of me figure out why they restricted this launch if they want the product to gain traction.
 
So how many people have: 1) a kaby lake system that 2) runs on purely mechanical drives which 3) has very little down time while also 4) having the knowledge / ability / desire to add one of these to an .m2 slot?!

I don't even see OEMs using this much because any system cheap enough to use purely mechanical drives is probably not going to have a buyer splurge for the extra 50-70 (plus OEM markup) to make their system a hybrid drive.
 
IMO, Intel simply should have released Optane drives that reflect the capacity points (and pricing) that people are creating demand for. 16-32GB? That is soooo 2011...

The only thing that Intel should be living in the past about is using soldered IHSs across ALL their processors.
 
Merc1138 said:
Yeah, it really only makes sense as a cheap upgrade for cheap OEMs that they just need to screw into place. Either as an option or "aftermarket" going forward since well... most OEM built PCs currently in use aren't even going to support this thing(or even have a port assuming the support for it wasn't locked to kaby lake).
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I have friends who've gone to Best Buy and whatnot and buy a computer because it's got 1TB of memory, compared to the one with the 250GB solid state, so it MUST be faster.

1TB hard drives are plentiful, and probably overflowing stock rooms at OEMs....if this moves them out the door *shrug*.

I think we here drastically over estimate the average consumer's even remote knowledge of how things work. It's the reason I think AMD has a potential marketing coup by being able to say "MORE CORES". It looks good on a sticker.
 
Pusher of Buttons said:
I have friends who've gone to Best Buy and whatnot and buy a computer because it's got 1TB of memory, compared to the one with the 250GB solid state, so it MUST be faster.

1TB hard drives are plentiful, and probably overflowing stock rooms at OEMs....if this moves them out the door *shrug*.

I think we here drastically over estimate the average consumer's even remote knowledge of how things work. It's the reason I think AMD has a potential marketing coup by being able to say "MORE CORES". It looks good on a sticker.
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This. Years ago, I got turned down for a seasonal job at a local Best Buy because (and I quote the manager that interviewed me) I was "too overqualified". Apparently, their MO is to simply push volume, instead of actually steering customers to products that actually meet their needs...
 
I do not see the market for this any also. Notably, the_real_7 boot time note is so true due to the fact that many systems built are not from those that are knowledgeable about the hardware and proper settings. My system with NVMe spends more time in post than load. Even though it is not too long of a wait, I can be reduce the POST wait time with an EFI setting but prefer not to. Basically, one complete rotation and about to start another then desktop. So, I wouldn't recommend Optane caching system. I would rather better I/O through better storage ware's.

It is too arbitrary with platform support, costly, and as Ars said revolutionary technology that is boring. Set up will be a bit complicated too due to RAID setup mapping through PCH. Hence, the platform restriction I believe.
 
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If I am remembering correctly, didn't Intel originally demonstrate or say it would work on Z170/Skylake, then they updated that to Z270/Kaby Lake? It does require *both* Z170 and Kaby Lake right?
 
Seems like a really crappy roll out. The tech has a lot of potential, but this is probably the most mundane, crappy use-case.

Only works with Z270 and Kaby Lake. Who, of all the people that spend cash on the newest and latest platform, doesn't already have a SSD, and more likely an NVMe SSD already? So the only people who would need/want this iteration would be those with a Z270+Kaby, but who ran out of upgrade cash and couldn't afford a big SSD.

I'd love to see a 500GB / 1TB version of this thing go toe-to-toe with a 960 EVO/PRO though.
 
I actually like it. NVME boot drive, optane + 8TB drive for games and apps. Look at the QD1 performance, it'l going to make MMOs and other games that constantly stream textures much more tolerable, and all in an affordable package (unlike paying for 8TB of TLC SSD which is still prohibitively expensive unless you're the kind of guy who upgrades from Titan to Titan Xp). I have a crapload of games but I still really play them one at a time so this is perfect for my desktop. I suspect intel might pair a bit of optane into their future SSDs as a caching layer, that would be hotness. The caching logic can be on the controller, so it just looks like a normal nvme device which has crazy low latencies on really small files (leave the large files as read-through to better utilize your limited optane capacity).
 
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DejaWiz said:
This. Years ago, I got turned down for a seasonal job at a local Best Buy because (and I quote the manager that interviewed me) I was "too overqualified". Apparently, their MO is to simply push volume, instead of actually steering customers to products that actually meet their needs...
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I had th same issue years ago applying for a part time job at best buy. He gave me situations and how I would handle it. He told me I wasn't a good fit for the company.
 
DejaWiz said:
This. Years ago, I got turned down for a seasonal job at a local Best Buy because (and I quote the manager that interviewed me) I was "too overqualified". Apparently, their MO is to simply push volume, instead of actually steering customers to products that actually meet their needs...
Click to expand...

Heh...yep. My boss called me a few weeks ago because she was at Best Buy. She needed a new laptop....essentially all she does with it is logs into our VPN from home and then a remote session. It could run on a graphing calculator. I found a cheap i3 laptop at Best Buy with a 128GB SSD for like $350. Told her buy that.

She called because the salesman said she should get a i5 because it would be more future-proof....mind you these are all the "U" series processors which are all neutered crap 2core/4thread CPUs regardless if you get a i3/i5/i7. The one he was trying to sell her was 200mhz faster but with a 1TB drive. So. Crap basically. For $150 more.

I'm glad she called because I put a stop to that nonsense....but otherwise she would have bought it, dealt with stupid long loading times, and had a garbage laptop for more money. Heck...while just casually browsing a BB when they had a few GTX1060 laptops in, I had a saleswoman come up to me and I said "yeah, just checking out your gaming laptops" and tried to inform me how good the Lenovo Yoga was for gaming.....God help the parent that bought that for their kid for christmas thinking they were getting a baller gaming laptop.
 
So Intel only and 7th generation at that, more proprietary nonsense for a very niche crowd at best.

Only available in 16 or 32gb variants not meant to compete directly with SSD though priced as such.
Here I thought they were #1 chip producer, does not seem so in the pricing or lack of compatibility IMO.

Why would anyone limit cache ability by spending ~2x more for ~2x less capacity and not just use SSD for the same purpose?

The crowd they seem to want to target are those using mechanical drives, which is fine, but not so fine when this crowd may not like the price to capacity ratio usually the case with SSD in general?

Big talk for the product that is, kind of like many years ago now with rambus RDRAM for P4 or the 750 series limited to (at the time) only a small niche corner of highest end Intel product stack.

Guess they really like limiting their sales or ensuring only high profit margins exist lol
 
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Miikun said:
I actually like it. NVME boot drive, optane + 8TB drive for games and apps. Look at the QD1 performance, it'l going to make MMOs and other games that constantly stream textures much more tolerable, and all in an affordable package (unlike paying for 8TB of TLC SSD which is still prohibitively expensive unless you're the kind of guy who upgrades from Titan to Titan Xp). I have a crapload of games but I still really play them one at a time so this is perfect for my desktop. I suspect intel might pair a bit of optane into their future SSDs as a caching layer, that would be hotness. The caching logic can be on the controller, so it just looks like a normal nvme device which has crazy low latencies on really small files (leave the large files as read-through to better utilize your limited optane capacity).
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You're not going to have enough PCIe lanes for that. You'll need 4 for your NVMe drive, and another 4 for the Optane drive. On a Kaby Lake, that only leaves 12 left for your GPU.

Optane vs NVMe drive is going to be "either/or, not both", unless you're on an X299 board with a 28/40lane CPU.
 
Bandalo said:
You're not going to have enough PCIe lanes for that. You'll need 4 for your NVMe drive, and another 4 for the Optane drive. On a Kaby Lake, that only leaves 12 left for your GPU.

Optane vs NVMe drive is going to be "either/or, not both", unless you're on an X299 board with a 28/40lane CPU.
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Not really. It is been shown that there isn't much difference between 8x and 16x pci 3.0. he can do what he would like. But as it is optane is meh at best.
 
vegeta535 said:
Not really. It is been shown that there isn't much difference between 8x and 16x pci 3.0. he can do what he would like. But as it is optane is meh at best.
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There's not much difference, but there is SOME difference, especially at 4k. I think that difference will be growing over time the faster these GPUs become. I'd not personally want to hamstring my build right out of the gate for something like this.
 
Bandalo said:
There's not much difference, but there is SOME difference, especially at 4k. I think that difference will be growing over time the faster these GPUs become. I'd not personally want to hamstring my build right out of the gate for something like this.
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By the time it starts to matter it be time to upgrade your CPU and mb anyway. You more then likely have more lanes and 4.0 lanes.
 
They need to backstep and support Z170/Skylake. Also I'm wondering how big of a difference it makes over HD/SSD Smart Response/Rapid Storage.
 
You know what would be a really good application of Optane? Graphics cards. You want a video card with 24GB of RAM? That'll be $2500, thankyouverymuch. Pair a plain ol' 4GB or 8GB card with 16GB/32GB of Optane, and I think you'll have something interesting for way less money than a workstation GPU.
 
vegeta535 said:
By the time it starts to matter it be time to upgrade your CPU and mb anyway. You more then likely have more lanes and 4.0 lanes.
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I'll bet it'll start to matter more when Volta rolls out, so not that far in the future.
 
I think these are really meant for OEM kinda upgrades/up sell, not people like us, who will already have SSDs. Over time the full Optane SSDs will trickle down and probably be used in other products.
DejaWiz said:
This. Years ago, I got turned down for a seasonal job at a local Best Buy because (and I quote the manager that interviewed me) I was "too overqualified". Apparently, their MO is to simply push volume, instead of actually steering customers to products that actually meet their needs...
Click to expand...

I have had a few friends back in the day work at BB, and they were told more or less, what the person wants or needs does not matter, sell them what they have the most stock of, or whatever is the highest price they will bite on. I still get some stuff from BB, or every now and again a sale comes up thats actually good and I go....I love to listen in to the BS they feed customers, one that stands out. Lady was needing a new WiFi router, her new ISP didn't supply her with one, just a basic modem from how the convo was going, she had really all she needed in her hand, a basic WiFi router, but the sales person was trying to sell her on a AC1900 (fastest retail at the time) most expensive router on the shelf "gaming" BS. She asked why and he said that because it was a "gaming" router it would take more abuse because of how heavy normal gaming traffic is (uhhh....What?) and that AC1900 means WAY faster speeds, she then asked again "so that means my internet will be faster?", he said "oh yes, the one you have in your hand is only 1/10th the speed of this one"......At that point I couldn't take it anymore and butted into the convo.
 
Really we need to see performance with the loading and offloading of textures while in game, but difficult to quantify such a benchmark test.
A more brutal example would be 8k video editing (albeit writing would be a disaster but we are after read-load access).
Downside is that I think the Optane memory cache can only be tied to boot drive and not ideal for most gamers even if it did do something at the textures/etc engine loading level.

This is what AMD is pushing as one of the advantages for the HBCC caching as it manages this with I assume some part of system memory outside of the OS.
Cheers
 
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