Microsoft backs down on Windows 11 changes

GotNoRice said:
A big reason for the current dynamic is that you have two different target audiences. An increasing number of younger people need to be able to adjust things similar to how they do it on their phone or they can't figure it out (either because they are too dumb or because they don't care to even try if it's not spoon fed to them). And you also have people of all ages who are legitimately just not good at using computers who do also benefit from a "simple" settings interface. On the flip side you have people who need or benefit from all of the detailed options, and are smart enough or care enough to actually understand what those options do. Some options have been removed from the legacy control panel over time but there is in-fact still quite a bit of overlap.
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Are you using the bigotry of low expectations? But making every option or setting take up 500 pixels on the screen does not make it simple or intuitive. Having to scroll down 5 pages for options that used to be on a single panel is not progress, nor simplicity.
GotNoRice said:
I don't think that it would actually be a good thing to have "all settings in one place". That's an almost impossible task without either making things too complicated for novice/lazy/dumb users or removing extra functionality that is preferred by advanced users. I'm perfectly fine with having the Little-Tykes Settings app for the phone tards while leaving the Control Panel in the background for the rest of us.
Click to expand...
That strawman didn't have chance, but I wrote all RELATED settings, the world related is kind of important there. What's left of the control panel is useless and dumb. What overlap remains is just enough to further confuse you trying to find settings that used to be there, but now reside in the settings app, which changes with every version BTW. They should've either left the control panel intact or migrated everything to the settings app.
 
Twisted Kidney said:
I would love to spend more time getting a game to run than playing the game. Linux on the desktop is a novelty and a toy, nothing more. It cripples your PC as a platform and renders it a lesser machine, it lets the hardware run by removing most of the useful software that makes a platform convenient to use. Somebody needs to make a version of Linux that has all of the telemetry of a proper platform so they can refine its function and make it work for people who want to run Linux to do something other than fuck around with Linux.
Click to expand...
I install the game via Steam or Lutris and the game runs. Most problems encountered are the same problems encountered by Windows users. As a gaming platform, Linux craps all over MacOS running Apple silicon.
 
M76 said:
Are you using the bigotry of low expectations? But making every option or setting take up 500 pixels on the screen does not make it simple or intuitive. Having to scroll down 5 pages for options that used to be on a single panel is not progress, nor simplicity.

That strawman didn't have chance, but I wrote all RELATED settings, the world related is kind of important there. What's left of the control panel is useless and dumb. What overlap remains is just enough to further confuse you trying to find settings that used to be there, but now reside in the settings app, which changes with every version BTW. They should've either left the control panel intact or migrated everything to the settings app.
Click to expand...

How else are they supposed to support the use case of someone with bloated ass heart failure sausage fingers tapping away on their Surface.
 
Twisted Kidney said:
I would love to spend more time getting a game to run than playing the game. Linux on the desktop is a novelty and a toy, nothing more. It cripples your PC as a platform and renders it a lesser machine, it lets the hardware run by removing most of the useful software that makes a platform convenient to use. Somebody needs to make a version of Linux that has all of the telemetry of a proper platform so they can refine its function and make it work for people who want to run Linux to do something other than fuck around with Linux.
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You are joking? Or trolling?
 
GoldenTiger said:
That's not really a high bar...
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Well in a number of cases gaming under Linux is actually faster than gaming under Windows using Windows native titles, under MacOS running Apple silicon everything is 30fps @ 1080p with frame pacing and stuttering in abundance.
 
GoldenTiger said:
It's pretty obvious satire, just look at the part about how Linux needs more telemetry :p.
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Which is why asked, because I've been told that the factory left out the satire detector when they built me.

Of course, maybe some three letter agency has Linux telemetry installed in all the distros. :D
 
socK said:
How else are they supposed to support the use case of someone with bloated ass heart failure sausage fingers tapping away on their Surface.
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With a separate version of windows built for touch screens. Just as they can have windows server, they can make windows touch or whatever they want to call it
Leave the desktop interface suitable for desktop use. Just because I heard some of you hate car analogies: What they are doing is fitting off-road tires on a civic. It hardly makes it an off-roader, but it will definitely make it useless on the road.
 
M76 said:
With a separate version of windows built for touch screens. Just as they can have windows server, they can make windows touch or whatever they want to call it
Leave the desktop interface suitable for desktop use. Just because I heard some of you hate car analogies: What they are doing is fitting off-road tires on a civic. It hardly makes it an off-roader, but it will definitely make it useless on the road.
Click to expand...
Welcome to the problem that was Windows 8 when Microsoft was pushing to have a touch interface when majority of people using it are on keyboard and mouse. Of course Microsoft had retracted from their touch interface with Windows 10, but Windows 11 is revising it but a bit more discreetly. One thing to keep in mind is that Windows is a business and Microsoft will try to monetize it as much as they can. This wasn't a problem when Microsoft's business model was selling you an OS, but that's no longer the case when nobody else sells the OS. Android is open source and Apple doesn't sell their OS either, though you can argue they sell you a package that includes the OS. Nobody buys a copy of Windows with so many methods to avoid it, like buying any number of $3 Windows 10 keys online or just finding an old key and installing since you can upgrade Windows 7 all the way to Windows 11 without paying. So the next best thing for Microsoft is to sell to OEM's, and what better way to expand your business then through tablets. Except that Android is pretty much the dominate OS when it comes to tablets and no OEM in their right mind is going to pay Microsoft for a Windows license to have a clunky OS because it can run Wintel applications. Except that not all tablets run x86 as most do use ARM, which for OEM's is cheaper then going with AMD or Intel, not to forget also gets better battery life too. Microsoft was bold enough to sell an ARM based Windows Surface devices, except that nobody liked them because they didn't have the benefit of running Wintel applications. There are more Android ARM applications than Windows ARM applications, so of course nobody buys Windows ARM devices.

So yea, Microsoft is still attempting to push Windows towards a more tablet friendly design and the recent File Explorer changes are just one of many more to come. Sure they retracted the changes, which to be honest what tablet user is going to stumble across those settings ever in their lifetime? Good chance Microsoft found that a lot of people use File Explorer a lot, which is why Microsoft has been paying attention to it. Not long ago Microsoft was putting ads in File Explorer, and also retracted from it. Again, only power users will use File Explorer which are definitely not tablet users, and are much less likely to tolerate these changes. Microsoft forgets that File Explorer is one of many applications people can use to... explore files. Again, there are no rules in Windows that says I must use File Explorer to explore files. I could use Free Commander for example which is totally free. Of course I use Linux because this sort of shit you see with Microsoft and Windows won't end with this. At some point Windows 12 will come out, and when it does you'll find these File Explorer features missing with ads taking their place. Meanwhile Nemo that comes with Linux Mint will never do this.

 
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DukenukemX said:
Welcome to the problem that was Windows 8 when Microsoft was pushing to have a touch interface when majority of people using it are on keyboard and mouse. Of course Microsoft had retracted from their touch interface with Windows 10, but Windows 11 is revising it but a bit more discreetly. One thing to keep in mind is that Windows is a business and Microsoft will try to monetize it as much as they can. This wasn't a problem when Microsoft's business model was selling you an OS, but that's no longer the case when nobody else sells the OS. Android is open source and Apple doesn't sell their OS either, though you can argue they sell you a package that includes the OS. Nobody buys a copy of Windows with so many methods to avoid it, like buying any number of $3 Windows 10 keys online or just finding an old key and installing since you can upgrade Windows 7 all the way to Windows 11 without paying. So the next best thing for Microsoft is to sell to OEM's, and what better way to expand your business then through tablets. Except that Android is pretty much the dominate OS when it comes to tablets and no OEM in their right mind is going to pay Microsoft for a Windows license to have a clunky OS because it can run Wintel applications. Except that not all tablets run x86 as most do use ARM, which for OEM's is cheaper then going with AMD or Intel, not to forget also gets better battery life too. Microsoft was bold enough to sell an ARM based Windows Surface devices, except that nobody liked them because they didn't have the benefit of running Wintel applications. There are more Android ARM applications than Windows ARM applications, so of course nobody buys Windows ARM devices.
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None of that explains why it has to be the exact same OS. I mean Apple phones don't have the same interface as macbooks, do they? Nor does an Android TV has the same UI as an Android Tablet.
 
M76 said:
None of that explains why it has to be the exact same OS. I mean Apple phones don't have the same interface as macbooks, do they? Nor does an Android TV has the same UI as an Android Tablet.
Click to expand...

I honestly don't know why they went this route

Like they almost had the right idea, they just fucked it up and forced it in desktop users each time.

Windows Mobile UI was pretty well received... in the mobile space where it belonged...
 
M76 said:
None of that explains why it has to be the exact same OS. I mean Apple phones don't have the same interface as macbooks, do they? Nor does an Android TV has the same UI as an Android Tablet.
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The reason why Microsoft is trying to make it the same OS is because they had a mobile phone OS and it failed. It failed because nobody made applications for it and Microsoft charged a fee. Android and iOS having beat Microsoft to the mobile punch had a very good head start by having more apps. Microsoft being the geniuses they are decided to merge Windows with their mobile products to take advantage of the enormous WinTel application library. Except that most tablets use ARM and Microsoft gave two shits about letting you access WinTel applications on ARM based Windows devices, and originally Microsoft wouldn't let you side load and you needed to go to their app store to get any applications.

As for Mac OSX and iOS just give it time and eventually Mac OSX and iOS will become the same OS. Android having a TV UI is just one of the features that Android has which can have the UI customized. You also don't see tablets with Android TV UI's, just TV's.
 
1_rick said:
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/202...key-support-rolls-back-file-explorer-changes/



Note that snotty last paragraph--you dinosaurs who aren't up with an ever-changing UI should be ashamed for insisting Microsoft not get rid of the Control Panel before they get around to moving all the functionality into Settings (a proces that's been going on for 11 years now, and shows no sign of ever being finished.)
Click to expand...

Things have to change, gentlemen. Otherwise we would still be using carbs, as an example, because there are people out there that swear by them. You feel me? Change is inevitable.

Plus, it was an insider build that got reverted because of insider build complaints.

Gideon said:
My Windows 10 will just continue to stay on my computer, love how it keeps badgering me every update that I can update to 11 for free... No thanks Microsoft.
Click to expand...

Same shit was said about windows 7 and everyone here going on about never updating to 10. Yet here we are, most are on 10. Give it some time, a random game you want to play or a new processor won't support something without 11 and you'll be dry humping all over the download link.
 
DukenukemX said:
The reason why Microsoft is trying to make it the same OS is because they had a mobile phone OS and it failed. It failed because nobody made applications for it and Microsoft charged a fee. Android and iOS having beat Microsoft to the mobile punch had a very good head start by having more apps. Microsoft being the geniuses they are decided to merge Windows with their mobile products to take advantage of the enormous WinTel application library. Except that most tablets use ARM and Microsoft gave two shits about letting you access WinTel applications on ARM based Windows devices, and originally Microsoft wouldn't let you side load and you needed to go to their app store to get any applications.
Click to expand...
So much wrong here. Windows CE phones were out in like 2003, maybe earlier. The first Android phone was like 2008 or so.

When .Net CF came out, you could compile an app for a mobile phone and it would work on Windows x86 with no problems (assuming you didn't use something phone-specific).

Win Phone may have forced you through the appstore (I don't know, never had one), but Win Mobile absolutelly let you install apps just like on the desktop, no app store necessary.

The switch from Windows Mobile to Windows Phone, admittedly, was stupid--they jumped the wrong way and never recovered.
 
1_rick said:
Well, then Microsoft should shit or get off the pot. The fact that Settings is unfinished and you sometimes still have to go to Control Panel to do things, 11 years later, is mindbogglingly stupid.
Click to expand...
I haven't gone to control panel since pressing win + Q has been a thing. I think it was Windows 7 SP1, but I can't verify, so I'll say early windows 10.

I type what I want and then open it.
 
auntjemima said:
Things have to change, gentlemen. Otherwise we would still be using carbs, as an example, because there are people out there that swear by them. You feel me? Change is inevitable.

Plus, it was an insider build that got reverted because of insider build complaints.



Same shit was said about windows 7 and everyone here going on about never updating to 10. Yet here we are, most are on 10. Give it some time, a random game you want to play or a new processor won't support something without 11 and you'll be dry humping all over the download link.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I pretty much don't give an fuck anymore. I set Windows 11 to the way it works for me and just let it be. The only desktop operating systems I loved using was Amiga OS and IBM OS/2.
 
Personally I'm glad they've backed down on some of these planned changes they've got too many in the OS right now that aren't working out well and they need to admit it.

I've been using Win 11 for almost a year now and I STILL HAVE TO LOOK TWO AND THREE TIMES AT THE COPY AND PASTE ICONS TO MAKE SURE I'M CLICKING ON THE RIGHT ONE. Mother of all things holy, I gave it more than a fair chance... but I don't CARE if Microsoft is tired of localizing the words for those commands. Using pictorial icons for EVERYTHING turns using the UI into something like interpreting hieroglyphics. They need to bring back the old right click menus with the text, and I'm saying that after really really trying to get used to the new ones.

That and the years of trying to phase out the classic top bar menu order of "file, edit, preferences, etc..." The best most intuitive programs STILL use that old formula because it works. Every time I have to go learn some new pictorial UI for most programs made today once in a while I'll get one that uses the old classic menu design and I STILL breathe a sigh of relief. "ahh, I don't have to learn yet another arbitrary menu layout... this one is standardized. What a relief."

And is ANYONE out there actually used to clicking on the three dots on the right of top bar menus for "settings?" even after years and years of it? I STILL don't just automatically go looking for THREE DAMN DOTS for "settings." I have to consciously think "where do the current idiot UI designers put things like settings these days?" Oh yeah... look for some stupid dots somewhere on the screen. Could be top or bottom edges... At least the GEAR icons makes a mental connection to settings. That one actually works. But for some reason it didn't become universal when it should have.

Rant mode... well... not off... but done for now.
 
Advil said:
Personally I'm glad they've backed down on some of these planned changes they've got too many in the OS right now that aren't working out well and they need to admit it.

I've been using Win 11 for almost a year now and I STILL HAVE TO LOOK TWO AND THREE TIMES AT THE COPY AND PASTE ICONS TO MAKE SURE I'M CLICKING ON THE RIGHT ONE. Mother of all things holy, I gave it more than a fair chance... but I don't CARE if Microsoft is tired of localizing the words for those commands. Using pictorial icons for EVERYTHING turns using the UI into something like interpreting hieroglyphics. They need to bring back the old right click menus with the text, and I'm saying that after really really trying to get used to the new ones.

That and the years of trying to phase out the classic top bar menu order of "file, edit, preferences, etc..." The best most intuitive programs STILL use that old formula because it works. Every time I have to go learn some new pictorial UI for most programs made today once in a while I'll get one that uses the old classic menu design and I STILL breathe a sigh of relief. "ahh, I don't have to learn yet another arbitrary menu layout... this one is standardized. What a relief."

And is ANYONE out there actually used to clicking on the three dots on the right of top bar menus for "settings?" even after years and years of it? I STILL don't just automatically go looking for THREE DAMN DOTS for "settings." I have to consciously think "where do the current idiot UI designers put things like settings these days?" Oh yeah... look for some stupid dots somewhere on the screen. Could be top or bottom edges... At least the GEAR icons makes a mental connection to settings. That one actually works. But for some reason it didn't become universal when it should have.

Rant mode... well... not off... but done for now.
Click to expand...
Get rid of the new right-click menu in File Explorer:

PowerShell:
Code: 
reg add "HKCU\Software\Classes\CLSID\{86ca1aa0-34aa-4e8b-a509-50c905bae2a2}\InprocServer32" /f /ve

The "three dots" thing is annoying, but I'm used to it at this point. At least Firefox are actually making good use of screen space in the latest version compared to when they launched the revamped UI. Extensive white space is the most annoying aspect of modern UI non-design. The stated goal is to minimize space used so more space is available for content, but then throw that completely out the window when the new interface takes up even more space than before.

Anybody remember when Firefox first launched? Now that was a nice UI. It was such a sea change compared to other browsers like IE and Netscape at the time. So much so that subsequent browsers like Chrome copied it.

1687871992169.png


In before some nerd says I'm wrong and this was a thing before Firefox...
 
Armenius said:
The stated goal is to minimize space used so more space is available for content, but then throw that completely out the window when the new interface takes up even more space than before.
Click to expand...
I think the actual goal is to minimize content space so there's more space for your fat fingers to touch stuff on the phone without hitting the wrong thing.
 
1_rick said:
So much wrong here. Windows CE phones were out in like 2003, maybe earlier. The first Android phone was like 2008 or so.
Click to expand...
Windows Mobile is not the same OS as Windows Phone. I had many Windows Mobile devices and I can tell you that Microsoft gave up on it long before Android arrived. So much so that I converted my HTC TyTN II to Android for this reason.
Win Phone may have forced you through the appstore (I don't know, never had one), but Win Mobile absolutelly let you install apps just like on the desktop, no app store necessary.
Click to expand...
Talking about Windows RT which is like Microsofts first attempt to bring Windows Desktop to ARM. This is why I'm not a huge fan of the idea of migrating to ARM since every company seems to use it as an opportunity to lock people into their ecosystem.
The switch from Windows Mobile to Windows Phone, admittedly, was stupid--they jumped the wrong way and never recovered.
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During the 2000's you see a lot of products from Microsoft left for dead. Internet Explorer was left alone for so long that FireFox took it's place and why everyone hates it to this day. Windows Mobile was definitely one of those products and instead of improving the UI and adding a store, they let Apple beat them. So much so that people still think Apple was the first to have a smart phone when Windows Mobile and SymbianOS had existed long before iPhone.

The was the UI of Windows Mobile. A lot of functionality needed a stylus due to how unfriendly it was with a finger.
Winmo65.png


This is the UI of Windows Phone OS, which is basically the Windows 10 start button but the part that everyone hates that's full of ads. I'm surprised there's no icon for Candy Crush as every Windows 10 install seems to put that there.
Windows-Phone-1.jpg
 
1_rick said:
I think the actual goal is to minimize content space so there's more space for your fat fingers to touch stuff on the phone without hitting the wrong thing.
Click to expand...
The real reason is likely to give more space for ads.
 
DukenukemX said:
This is the UI of Windows Phone OS, which is basically the Windows 10 start button but the part that everyone hates that's full of ads. I'm surprised there's no icon for Candy Crush as every Windows 10 install seems to put that there.
Click to expand...

I had a Windows phone and loved it. It was butter smooth ALL of the time even though they only had 256GB (512?) RAM. Android has only recently gotten to the point where it's starting to feel smooth by using 8+ GBs of RAM and 120hz screens. Unfortunately the lack of apps killed it but it would have been great to have a 3rd option to choose from now.
 
Bankie said:
I had a Windows phone and loved it. It was butter smooth ALL of the time even though they only had 256GB (512?) RAM. Android has only recently gotten to the point where it's starting to feel smooth by using 8+ GBs of RAM and 120hz screens. Unfortunately the lack of apps killed it but it would have been great to have a 3rd option to choose from now.
Click to expand...
Android being open source doesn't need a 3rd option. You simply take it and fork it, like everyone else. That's what Amazon did with their Fire devices without the Google Play store.
 
Bankie said:
I had a Windows phone and loved it. It was butter smooth ALL of the time even though they only had 256GB (512?) RAM. Android has only recently gotten to the point where it's starting to feel smooth by using 8+ GBs of RAM and 120hz screens. Unfortunately the lack of apps killed it but it would have been great to have a 3rd option to choose from now.
Click to expand...
no windows phone has ever had 256GB of RAM (no phone has). the max ive seen was 4 or 6GB, mine has 3GB. 256GB storage maybe.
yeah they do run great, at least my lumia 950 still does.


DukenukemX said:
This is the UI of Windows Phone OS, which is basically the Windows 10 start button but the part that everyone hates that's full of ads.
Click to expand...
the only place i see ads on it is in the free apps ive loaded, nothing directly from MS.
 
pendragon1 said:
no windows phone has ever had 256GB of RAM (no phone has). the max ive seen was 4 or 6GB, mine has 3GB. 256GB storage maybe.
yeah they do run great, at least my lumia 950 still does.
Click to expand...
Whoops I meant MB. I was just throwing the 256/512 number out there as I couldn't remember what my old WP had. That was the thing with WP though; it didn't matter what your hardware was as the interface was always smooth.
 
We ran Windows phones for a while. It was truly pretty good, except for exactly what was stated above. They abandoned support and didn't add a store.

The tile layout and the way you could customize it suited a phone extremely well. More important things, or things that need room for text... make it bigger. Active tiles... terrible on PC, awesome on a phone. Need to hit it with your finger easier? bigger. Rarely use it? smaller.

And being Microsoft things like email worked extremely well.

I was pissed they dropped their phone division. Because it was the only viable alternative to going Android (which I'm on now and it's still not as solid) and I sure as hell wasn't going into the Apple ecosystem. I gave up on apple after owning one iPod way back. The tech worked ok but iTunes and Apple accounts are two of the worst things ever created.
 
Advil said:
We ran Windows phones for a while. It was truly pretty good, except for exactly what was stated above. They abandoned support and didn't add a store.

The tile layout and the way you could customize it suited a phone extremely well. More important things, or things that need room for text... make it bigger. Active tiles... terrible on PC, awesome on a phone. Need to hit it with your finger easier? bigger. Rarely use it? smaller.

And being Microsoft things like email worked extremely well.

I was pissed they dropped their phone division. Because it was the only viable alternative to going Android (which I'm on now and it's still not as solid) and I sure as hell wasn't going into the Apple ecosystem. I gave up on apple after owning one iPod way back. The tech worked ok but iTunes and Apple accounts are two of the worst things ever created.
Click to expand...
pendragon1 said:
no windows phone has ever had 256GB of RAM (no phone has). the max ive seen was 4 or 6GB, mine has 3GB. 256GB storage maybe.
yeah they do run great, at least my lumia 950 still does.



the only place i see ads on it is in the free apps ive loaded, nothing directly from MS.
Click to expand...
:rolleyes:
 
WhoBeDaPlaya said:
I blame Agile (somewhat)
Click to expand...

Why do something right the first time when you can get it right on the 45th attempt...

You lost all your customers and the company has gone under but well done guys! You got there in the end!
 
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Bankie said:
The Fire devices are even slower and crappier than standard Android...
Click to expand...

They have many good qualities when taken in the proper context. FireHD Tablets are cheap. I've set many people up with 8" FireHD Tablets for ~$40 when they go on sale. They are slow, but functional. They have fairly durable construction and are suitable for content consumption, such as if you just want a cheap device to use as a mini-TV to watch Hulu, Netflix, etc. The Google Play Store can be side-loaded onto them which essentially turns them into a fully-functional Android tablet. I've done this for quite a few people. While they pale in comparison to devices costing 4-10 times as much money, good luck finding a device that can compete with them for the same price.
 
They also make good devices to run a one off app. Control system... scoring software for sporting event...
 
Bankie said:
The Fire devices are even slower and crappier than standard Android...
Click to expand...
There's a reason why they're the best selling tablet, at least as far back as when Linus made this video. They're cheap and sell well, which is probably why they're slow. The point is that Android dominates the market because it's open source and free. Unlike Apple who does have a healthy 50% market share in America, but for the rest of the world it's Android's world. The only exception to this is the desktop where it's Windows world. Apple has tried to take a fraction of this market share, and has failed miserably. Microsoft has tried and also failed miserably, because the amount of applications with hardware support is just massive on Windows. Yes, Microsoft is trying to kill the WinTel market that they're a part of, because as it stands the x86 platform is open and Microsoft doesn't like this. It's very beneficial for Microsoft to push for ARM where it's a new platform with no universal standards that Microsoft like Apple can take advantage of and force people into their ecosystem. It's not just Apple but Android does this as well as no Android device has a universal boot loader that just works. This is why LineageOS (my favorite Android OS) has a list of supported devices because it needs to be tailor made even though they all run Android and they all run ARM. That is what I run on my Moto X4 because it is on that list, but for most devices it works because this one guy named ThE_MarD who on his spare time ports LineageOS to Motorola phones in between his 16 hours shifts.

My point is that charging money for an OS in 2023 is stupid, and keeping it closed source is even dumber. While Apple doesn't technically charge a fee for Mac OSX and iOS, they aren't open source either. This has pushed the EU to pass laws because of Apple's locked down OS's. Apple and Microsoft are both publicly traded companies which means they have shareholders to make happy, which means they'll pull some bullshit every so often to extract as much wealth through their OS's as they legally can.

 
Advil said:
We ran Windows phones for a while. It was truly pretty good, except for exactly what was stated above. They abandoned support and didn't add a store.

The tile layout and the way you could customize it suited a phone extremely well. More important things, or things that need room for text... make it bigger. Active tiles... terrible on PC, awesome on a phone. Need to hit it with your finger easier? bigger. Rarely use it? smaller.

And being Microsoft things like email worked extremely well.

I was pissed they dropped their phone division. Because it was the only viable alternative to going Android (which I'm on now and it's still not as solid) and I sure as hell wasn't going into the Apple ecosystem. I gave up on apple after owning one iPod way back. The tech worked ok but iTunes and Apple accounts are two of the worst things ever created.
Click to expand...
iTunes on Windows is getting worse and worse. No longer works when you do a sync between Outlook and your phone.
 
DukenukemX said:
My point is that charging money for an OS in 2023 is stupid, and keeping it closed source is even dumber. While Apple doesn't technically charge a fee for Mac OSX and iOS, they aren't open source either. This has pushed the EU to pass laws because of Apple's locked down OS's. Apple and Microsoft are both publicly traded companies which means they have shareholders to make happy, which means they'll pull some bullshit every so often to extract as much wealth through their OS's as they legally can.
Click to expand...

I don't know about anyone else, but I would MUCH rather pay the $130 or whatever it would be today with inflation for a license to an OS once every 5 years than this freemium bullshit with ads and data collection we have today.

I mean, seriously, I have been a tech enthusiast my entire life, and they have made me want to quit and go live in a cave.

Tech got better and better every year until about 2007, then it all started turning stupid, and everything since then has just been awful and infuriating. Everything I used to hate about Apple. Everyone is doing that now.

How I wish we could rewind the clock to before the financial crisis and just ban the shit out of these business models. We need a clean slate. Nuke everything from orbit and start over.
 
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