MadCATZ Cyborg M.M.O. 7 gaming mouse review . . .

Racer_J

Gawd
Joined
Jan 17, 2012
Messages
657
I'm giving this it's own thread as it doesn't really belong in the Jimbodan's MMO & or Naga poll thread since this is an in depth review rather than which mouse one would prefer.


MMO 7 initial thoughts:

Adjust-ability:

I love the adjust-ability. On that note, you can not adjust the "angle" of the thumb buttons like you can on the RAT series. They are very upfront about that though. However, I had hop based on Jimbodan's post about the screw still being there. I don't have a RAT but, it's clear something was changed in the design. I have a hunch that extra plastic was cast around the thumb buttons case in between where it slides over the metal post that has the screw and the body of the mouse. This effectively keeps the thumb button housing parallel to the mouse body at all times. I could honestly use another 1/4" or so in mouse width to give my thumb a more neutral position but, it is what it is. I may look at the RAT's to see how the adjustment works and then see if I can alter something but, I don't know that it would be worth the risk of losing the warranty. There appears to be enough cable slack to allow the adjustment to have been left so it was either a "stability/longevity" issue or a cost measure issue. The back and forth slider adjustment helped get the buttons in a more comfortable position.

I went with the "humpback" palm rest for it extended out as far as possible and he wide pinky rest. I may switch out the "humback" palm rest for one of the others though. I like the height of it and really need it but, it's higher on the right than it is on the left and it should really be the opposite of that. I'm guessing it was designed for smaller hands though where the Thenar muscle and the Trapezoid, Trapezium, and Scaphoid bones (the padded area of your palm where the thumb and wrist tie together) would rest on the palm pad rather than being in contact with the desk/mouse pad surface. Actually, it's more like the "humpback palm rest was made for the left hand rather than the right hand. If only it curved the other way instead. I have a feeling I am going to have to wind up "clawing" the mouse rather than allowing my hand to splay out in a more natural position. I'll just have to play around with a bit but, I'm glad I went with something that as a range of adjustments to it


Buttons:

Speaking of buttons, I really wish the "d-pad" was a larger button/joystick. It's rather tiny for my thumb and I'm going to have to seriously rethink my intended usage for it (strafing/additional movement). To give you an idea of how much larger my hands are compare to Jimbodan, I can actually mash all the thumb buttons at once though my dexterity does aid in that a bit when it comes to the back two buttons. My thumb is literally in contact with all the thumb buttons at once though. The Naga would have been an absolute nightmare for me based on this.

*edit* Back to the "d-pad" though. It's somewhat "stiff" and that is only problematic if you need to press it forward as you need to actually alter your thumb placement in order to press it forward. Resting your thumb on it like you would on an analogue pad on a N64/Gamecube/Wii, PSX/PS2/PS3, Saturn, or X-box/360 controller just doesn't provide the "grip/tension" needed because of how small the "d-pad" on the MMO 7 is. Obviously they can't make the "d-pad" any more loose than it already is or it would be "sloppy" and would result in numerous accidental presses. This only reinforces my stance that the "d-pad" needs to be bigger though. That would require the thumb button casing to be taller though which would result in the buttons being spread further apart. Technically, there's room to do that but given that they have to make the thumb button casing and button placement "one size fits all" I understand why the made the "d-pad" small. It's a lot smaller than the pictures make it look though despite the other buttons not being as small in person. It would have been incredible to have some different sized options for the "d-pad" but that would have increased production costs and probably would have been an RMA nightmare for them as a result of breakage.

The scroll wheels have a nice solid/resistive feel to them. The side scroll wheel is an awkward position for game usage but, it's placement shouldn't be an issue for general PC usage or for various programs like Photoshop or what have you.

Initially, the autolock buttons were "neat" and I preferred them to an auto run keybind. The novelty quickly wears off though when you actually need to see your mouse cursor or to be able to use your mouse for something other than looking around/steering. The lock button location isn't convenient enough to activate/deactivate especially since you have to activate/deactivate both buttons. It was a "neat" idea but it cripples to much other functionality to really be useful even when you aren't a "clicker".

*edit* I wanted to do a small update on the autolock buttons for mouse button 1 and mouse button 2. The one on mouse button 2 is actually somewhat useful in WoW if you use it in conjunction with an actual auto-run keybind (either on the MMO 7, the keyboard, or some other piece of hardware). If you use it in tandom with an autorun keybind, you only need to click mouse button 2 to get your mouse cursor back and that will allow your character to keep moving. You can also choose to do this with mouse button one if you would rather have the camera button locked down rather than steering. If you use both lock buttons at the same time though, you still run into an issue of having to unlock both mouse button one and mouse button 2 to get your mouse pointer back and this can be a major hindrance. To be fair, you lose your mouse pointer when you hold both mouse button 1 and mouse button 2 down to run regardless of what mouse you use (and when you hold mouse button one down to spin the camera or mouse button 2 down to steer) but, that simply necessitates letting go of the buttons to get your mouse pointer back rather than needing an additional click. In the long term, I don't know that the lock buttons are worth the extra clicks/slowdown but that is highly subjective and will be based on your playstyle/how you feel about needing to hold mouse button 1 or mouse button 2 down/the scenario you're in. I have a hunch it will be best suited for PvP but, I'm still getting used to my binds before I give that a go as the button locks alone will be a large change in playstyle. BTW, having the lock button on mouse button 2 will prevent you from looting a corpse as it apparently "sees" a click on mouse button 2 as just being pressed down with each click rather than being pressed down with one click and released with the second click. The exception to that is if you do a very quick doubleclick so keep that in mind as it could leave you with a few WTF moments when it catches you off-guard.


Weight:

It "feels" like it moves easier/lighter than the crappy filler mouse I was using (Logitech M205) but that has a AA battery in it so that shouldn't be too surprising even though it's a small mouse. The MMO 7 isn't light it just feels like it in comparison to the weight of a battery. If it's an issue I will pickup some extra weights for it later on. At 800 DPI the mouse crawls across the screen but at 6400 DPI it's "OMG Speedhax".


PC Software:

This was a little "irritating" to install on XP. I say irritating as it's not fully automated. Towards the end of the install Windows "found new hardware wizard" pops up and you have to tell it to not search online and then you have to select "recommended. Then you get to do that another two or three times. It's not a huge deal but it caught me off-guard and I had to start the install over as I am used to having to cancel out of the Windows installer for several years now if it ever pops up. The MMO 7 installer actually tells you to select "recommended" if you see Windows installer but, it's just second nature to kill the Windows installer with fire when you see it.

*edit* On Windows 7 64, the installation process is fully automated.

I thought it was cool that you could make the LEDs on mouse button 1 and 2 black though which effectively turns them off although they really just aren't able to emit light. I have no desire for my mouse to constantly emit light so those LEDs are set to black. The other neat thing is that those buttons have different colour settings for when you have the lock button on and then when you have one of those buttons locked.

e.g. Just sitting here the LEDs are Black. If I press the lock button for mouse button 1, I have the colour set to green so that I know the lock button has been pressed. If I press mouse button 1 while it's green, I have it set to turn red to indicate that button is locked down.

Having separate colours based on the lock button was a really slick idea as it serves as a warning/indicator. You can not deactivate the LEDs for the DPI indicator nor the mode/shift indicator but that's not a huge deal.


Overall the PC software is pretty straight forward and it allows you to assign keystrokes/commands/macros to each of the thumb keys and the scroll keys. Basically you can assign all the keys except mouse button 1 and 2, the mode button, the DPI button, the shift button, and lock button 1 and 2. That gives you 13 buttons you can assign.

You can also save and load profiles. The only thing that's missing is automatic loading of profiles based on the application launched/in use. I sincerely hope support is added for that at some point for the sake of simplicity.

There are also options to adjust the DPI for each of the four DPI modes (that you access with the DPI button) and options to adjust the sensitivity of the precision aim button should you chose to keep it assigned (it's supposed to be useful in FPS games).

The software is incredibly easy to navigate and fiddle with. Except when it comes to binding movements to the MMO 7 buttons. You have to set it as a "button" and then delete the "up" command it records when you stop pressing the button you are binding. It took entirely to long to figure that out. If you want the button to stay pressed until you click it again, you need to select "latched" as well. The "latched" option is sort of neat and theoretically, binds being "latched" shouldn't trigger bot detection as it's no different than holding down any given key on your keyboard with your finger. However, if you start adding in delays to your binds, you're going to get tagged for botting just like you would with any other hardware you added delays into your macros/binds on. The "latched" option is really best suited for movement binds IMO but, I'm sure there are certain cases where it might be beneficial elsewhere even though none immediately spring to mind.


The WoW addon:

I absolutely loathe the fact that I can not directly assign the mouse buttons to the keybind menu. This is a major oversight and a huge letdown. This essentially means you have to setup a keybind in WoW and then go into the MMO 7 software and assign that keybind to the mouse button you want it on. There is absolutely no reason that you should have to do that and the redundancy of it is absolutely infuriating.

To be fair though, I have the same complaint with the G11/G15 keyboards from Logitech as you have to assign keybinds to the Gkeys in the G11/G15 software and then you have to go into WoW and bind the Gkeys to what you want to use them on. It is equally as frustrating, redundant, infuriating and makes me loath their software as well.

I have yet to understand why games don't comprehend when something has additional buttons (or rather why the hardware doesn't report to the the game that there are additional buttons). The problem with hardware behaving this way is eventually you run into an issue of conflicting keybinds or not having keys left to bind as a result of you binds in game and already using your modifier keys. Companies are eventually going to have to find a better way of handling this.

At least the MMO 7 WoW addon will allow you to drag in-game macros, items, spells, etc. onto it. You can also drag your armor onto it in case you want to bind something like your rocket boots or rocket gloves to the MMO 7 buttons. Hopefully they will flesh this addon out a bit along with the actual software.

The biggest complaint I have with the WoW addon is how the mode key is handled.

Pressing ALT+CTRL+E is mode 1.
Pressing ALT+CTRL+F is mode 2.
Pressing ALT+CTRL+[ is mode 3.

These have broken keybinds/macros that I have used for years and it was silly of them to program the mode key like that especially since you can not change the bind on the mode key. I almost never figured out why I suddenly had broken macros and binds. This was just a poor decision to assign binds to the mode the key using common modifiers and keys. Granted the [ key probably isn't common but E and F most certainly are. This is absolutely something that has to be corrected. In fact, all the default binds are done via Alt+CTRL+insert random key here. While this may not affect a casual player, any user that has in depth macros and makes use of modifier keys is going to get stung by this. There is no way to keep every single player from running into an issue though but, some of the default binds seem pretty arbitrary. There really shouldn't even be a need to keybind the mode button though as the G11/G15 keyboard software is able to use it's M1, M2, and M3 keys (which are essentially mode keys for the Gkeys) don't need a keybind to carry out their function. Granted, that is Logitech hardware/firmware and it doesn't use an addon in WoW (unless you count the 3rd party addon that just creates an action bar to mimic the button layout). The mode switch on the MMO 7 should really be handled exclusively by it's own software/hardware though as relying on an addon for the mode key is going to cause issues for players.

That being said, you can edit the CyborgMMO7.lua file in the addon to change the mode keybind. This is the section you are looking for:

Mode = {
["enUS"] = {
"ALT-CTRL-E",
"ALT-CTRL-F",
"ALT-CTRL-["
},
["frFR"] = {
"ALT-CTRL-E",
"ALT-CTRL-F",
"ALT-CTRL-^" }
["deDE"] = {
"ALT-CTRL-E",
"ALT-CTRL-F",
"ALT-CTRL-ü"
},
["zhCN"] = {
"ALT-CTRL-E",
"ALT-CTRL-F",
"ALT-CTRL-["
},
["zhTW"] = {
"ALT-CTRL-E",
"ALT-CTRL-F",
"ALT-CTRL-["
},
["esES"] = {
"ALT-CTRL-E",
"ALT-CTRL-F",
"ALT-CTRL-'"
},
["esMX"] = {
"ALT-CTRL-E",
"ALT-CTRL-F",
"ALT-CTRL-'"
}
}

You can also change the other keybindings in here as well but it would be hell to do so as they aren't named. It's just a list of keybinds so you are better off sticking with the actual MMO 7 software to set your keybinds until they allow you to actually do it via the game's keybinding options.


And that brings us to . . .

Mouse Tracking:

If this mouse loses it's vertical position one more time forcing me to pick it up I'm going to hurl it against the wall and RMA it. I'm not really going to hurl it but, that should give you an idea about how frequently this is occurring. It is beyond excessive and it happens when you're not even touching the mouse. It just starts acting stupid from just sitting there. It could be a surface issue but if a $15 M205 doesn't have tracking issues, a 6400 DPI gaming mouse that sells for $129.99 sure as hell shouldn't. It just randomly acts like it's higher vertically on the screen than it is and it can't even manage to that right as it's usually on a heavy axis to where the bottom left corner of the screen and the mouse pointer are aligned and then it goes further up the screen despite the fact you are moving it in a straight line parallel to the bottom of the screen. The other complaints are minor as they can be resolved via workarounds or software/addon updates. The tracking issue is completely unacceptable though and far, far, far to frequent. I have read where this type of sensor has issues but I don't recall reading where it happens ever couple of minutes. At least that's how frequently it feels and it is fairly frequent.

*edit This looks like it was related to the surface. I'll update about this in a few days once I can get some more usage time in.


Closing thoughts:

We'll see how this turns out. There are a lot of things I like about the mouse which is a lot of it. There are some things I dislike about the mouse like the small d-pad and the issues with the keybind accessibility. Then there are some things I outright despise about the mouse like the tracking issue. If it wasn't for the tracking issue, I'd be happy overall with it since I can bypass/workaround the issues I have with how keybinds are handled. The tracking issue really sucks the fun out of the mouse though which sucks because this is one of the larger mice on the market with a lot of buttons. There is also the fact that it's customizable to make it more "form fitting" than it typically would be.

I'm really on the fence though because of the tracking issue as that will require a running hardware change and then an RMA under warranty to that change.
 
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Small update as a result of a question asked in another thread.

I have a question about the MMO7 for all the users. Can all of the buttons be used in FPS's like BF3? And what are the buttons set to on the keyboard? The numpad like the Naga? Thanks.

The short answer is:

Yes, all the buttons can be used.

The long answer is:

You can set the thumb keys, horizontal scroll wheel (separate binds for the left and right), and the vertical scroll wheel (just one bind here) to whatever keys you want them to be. Based on that, you should be able to use them all regardless of what game you are using as long as said game allows you to bind certain actions to whatever key you want.


The default keybinds for the MMO 7 are as follows:

Mode button keybinds:

The 1st bind shown is for Mode 1. ALT-CTRL-E
The 2nd bind shown is for Mode 3. ALT-CTRL-F
The 3rd bind shown is for Mode 2. ALT-CTRL-[

The binds for the Mode button vary depending on the language you have the keyboard set to. Also keep in mind this was taken from one of the LUA files for the WoW addon. That would allow you to change the mode button keybinds if you manually edit the LUA file. You would not be able to edit it for other programs though and I'm unsure what they are bound to in anything other than WoW. I looked at the coding in some of the various profiles but I didn't see what the mode buttons were actually bound to. That's not surprising since you can not alter the Mode button's binds though. I'm by no means a coding expert but, I would have noticed the bind if it was actually in there. The actual software is a bunch of .dll files so someone more advanced would need to dig through those. Perhaps Rich can provide the answer though if he is keeping tabs on this thread.

Mode = {
["enUS"] = {
"ALT-CTRL-E",
"ALT-CTRL-F",
"ALT-CTRL-["
},
["frFR"] = {
"ALT-CTRL-E",
"ALT-CTRL-F",
"ALT-CTRL-^"
},
["deDE"] = {
"ALT-CTRL-E",
"ALT-CTRL-F",
"ALT-CTRL-ü"
},
["zhCN"] = {
"ALT-CTRL-E",
"ALT-CTRL-F",
"ALT-CTRL-["
},
["zhTW"] = {
"ALT-CTRL-E",
"ALT-CTRL-F",
"ALT-CTRL-["
},
["esES"] = {
"ALT-CTRL-E",
"ALT-CTRL-F",
"ALT-CTRL-'"
},
["esMX"] = {
"ALT-CTRL-E",
"ALT-CTRL-F",
"ALT-CTRL-'"
}
}


The other buttons keybinds:

I have a feeling these vary quite a bit depending on the profile you load. The very top two thumb buttons though (the ones above the "d-pad") are mouse button 4 and mouse button 5. For the sake of argument though, I went ahead and downloaded the FPS profile pack and looked at COD MW3. By default, they keybinds for all the modes and the modes while holding shift are the same (regardless of the profile in use). For the sake of clarity, I took screen shots of the keybinds for COD MW3. I'm not going to screenshot all of the profiles but, if there is a specific one you would like to know about, let me know.

Here are the COD MW3 keybinds (you can change any of them and add new ones):

CODMW300.jpg


CODMW301.jpg


CODMW302.jpg


Here is the list of currently available profiles:

Action:

Assassin's Creed
Batman Arkham Asylum
Dead Rising 2
Deadspace 2
Just Cause 2
Lost Planet 2
Mafia II
Red Faction Armageddon
Space Marine
Transformers War for Cybertron


FPS:

ARMA2
AvP
Bad Company 2
Bioshock
Bloody Good Time
Borderlands
Brink
Bulletstorm
Call of Duty
COD MW3
Crysis
Crysis 2
CSS
DNF
DoD Source
Front Misson Evolved
HalfLife 2
Homefront
L4D2
Metro 2033
MoH
Op Flashpoint DR
Section 8 Prejudice
Shattered Horizon
Stalker
Team Fortress 2


MMO:

Age of Conan
Aion
D&D Online
DC Unvierse Online
Entropia Universe
EVE
Everquest II
Final Fantasy XIV
Guild Wars
League of Legends
LOTR Online
Rift
Runescape
Star Trek Online
SWTOR
Tera
Warhammer Online
World of Tanks
WoW


RPG:

DeusEx HR
Dragon Age Origins
Dragon Age 2
Elder Scrolls Oblvion
Elder Scrolls Skyrim
Fallout 3
Mass Effect 2
Minecraft
Mount & Blade
Witcher 2


Strategy:

Civilization 5
Command & Conquer
Company of Heroes
Dawn of War
Empire Total War
Homeworld 2
League of Legends
Napoleon Total War
Shogun 2 Total War
Sins of a Solar Empire
Starcraft II
Supreme Commander
Supreme Commander 2


Software: (Windows)

CS5 After Effects (Win)
CS5 Dreamweaver (Win)
CS5 Flash (Win)
CS5 Illustrator (Win)
CS5 In Design (Win)
CS5 Photoshop (Win)
CS5 Premier (Win)
Firefox (Win)
Google Chrome (Win)
Google Earth (Win)
MS Access (Win)
MS Excell (Win)
MS IE9 (Win)
MS Outlook (Win)
MS Powerpoint (Win)
MS Project (Win)
MS Windows 7 (Win)
MS Word (Win)
Solidworks (Win)
Visual Studio (Win)


CS5: (Windows and Macintosh)

CS5 Dreamweaver (Mac)
CS5 Dreamweaver (Win)
CS5 Illustrator (Mac)
CS5 Illustrator (Win)
CS5 In Design (Mac)
CS5 In Design (Win)
CS5 Photoshop (Mac)
CS5 Photoshop (Win)
 
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Now that's a thoroughly comprehensive review. Just wanted to mention about the tracking issues you're having - have a look at my response in this thread (which might not necessarily look immediately relevant, but the M.M.O.7 uses a twin eye sensor too, albeit the next generation from the one currently in the Naga).

http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1682863

Have you tried changing the surface that you're mousing on to see if it helps?
 
hey Rich,

I actually saw that prior to writing out my review. I've been using a sheet of paper as a temporary solution (since it has a different texture than the desk) and it appears to have cut down on the issue quite a bit but, I didn't want to do an update until I was sure it was actually making a difference and wasn't just a coincidence. I had a tracking issue a little while ago where I " physically ran out of movement room" from moving the mouse back to go to the bottom of the screen and the cursor was only near the middle of the screen. I'm not sure it's entirely a surface issue yet as I have developed somewhat of a habit of lifting the mouse at random intervals. I'll put the weights back in it to help break the "urge" of lifting it and see how well it does. I may try out a heavier weight paper with more of a tooth as well. If that resolves it, I'll look into getting a proper surface as paper is going to wear out, get filthy, cause a "lint" issue, etc.

I appreciate you taking the time to post though and I'll keep everyone updated on my progress.


While I have everyone's attention, my hand has rapidly adapted to the MMO 7. I haven't really done any gaming as I have been stuck on this "backup" rig so I will still have to get used to the additional binds but there is just something "natural" feeling about the shape and layout. The width of the center body really aids in that but it did require me to use a bit of a different "grip". I've found that I need to rest my index finger on mouse button 1, my middle finger on the scroll wheel, and my ring finger on mouse button 2. The reason for this is that my middle finger would almost always click mouse button 2 when I would move the mouse as it feels like it requires less pressure to click it. This brought about a slight learning curve as my middle finger kept clicking the scroll wheel button but, the mouse feels so much better for some reason using three fingers instead of two. (I really struggled to make that last sentence not sound like innuendo but, it was futile.) This however does have my index and ring fingers slightly resting on the mode button (but it requires a good deal of pressure to press) and slightly on the top left edge of of the center body. That's not an issue for me but I felt it was worth mentioning and if I use a traditional two finger grip, my index and middle finger would rest on just mouse button 1 and mouse button 2. The three finger grip also eliminates the need of to move a finger off of mouse button 1 or mouse button 2 to use the scroll wheel or to click it so that aids in reaction time if you heavily use those three buttons like I do. For those of you hoping you'll get to make another innuendo joke, I do wish the mouse was just a bit wider but overall it's a good fit.
 
Just a couple of quick updates.

I added the list of MMO profiles to my OP (original post) as I somehow managed to leave them out.

The paper experiment turned out to be a flop after I broke the habit of lifting the mouse at random intervals. It even had issues with tracking on cardstock. However, I had a piece of a "shelf" (made out of MDF) leftover from a recent project that has matte black "laminate/finish" layer on it that has a bit of a tooth to it. I wouldn't call it rough but it has a "texture" to it. I've not had an issue thus far but I've not been using it very long. It appears that this may have resolved the tracking issue. At the very minimum, it's reduced it considerably.
 
Just wanted to add some more updates.

My motherboard came back in from a RMA today and I got my actual rig running again. The MMO 7 software install on Windows 7 64 bit is fully automated. This also confirmed a hunch I had about the LED, Precision Aim, and DPI settings being stored on the mouse itself rather than the actual software as they were still setup how I had them on the other PC. I went ahead and installed it on a USB 3.0 port rather than one of my USB 2.0 ports. So far I haven't had any tracking issues but, I am still using the piece of MDF with the matte black "laminate/finish" on it. I'm pretty sure that's what resolved the issue rather than using it on a different PC and OS. I'll do an update on the tracking in a few days after I get some more usage time in with it.
 
Just posting a few more updates:

Tracking:

This appears to be resolved. It hasn't displayed the issues I was initially having. If you lift the mouse up, the pointer moves down and to the right but as I understand it that happens an all mice that use this type of sensor. The only time I would be lifting would be during strafing and that requires the mouse to be physically moved to a different spot anyway which would compensate for it.


WoW addon:

After some further testing, another issue has come to light. If you want to actually be able to use what you drag and drop onto the addon, you have to either use the default keybinds for the "MMO7_WoWaddon" profile or you have to go through the CyborgMMO7.lua file and change all the other binds. You also can not rename the binds in the MMO 7 software because of how the addon is coded. This is going to cause of lot of issues and complaints from the more advanced users. The addon needs to allow proper keybind support/changes from within WoW like pretty much every other addon that uses a keybind does. The keybinds also need to be stripped entirely from the Mode button or at the minimum be able to be changed from within the MMO 7 software. The addon just isn't user friendly for advanced users and it takes entirely to much effort to correctly set it up as a result.

The colour of the addon also will not change unless you manually use the keybinds for the Mode button. Pressing the mode button will not trigger the addon to change colours and, the Mode button does not function correctly. It's still using it's default keybinds for some reason and it doesn't care what Mode it's on as it will cast whatever you have bound in one Mode in the WoW addon in all of the modes. I currently have all the Modes using the same binds but that shouldn't matter when I have different spells on the same key in a different mode. This issue also exists when you use the "MMO7_WoWAddon" profile in it's default configuration. In it's current state, the addon really provides no benefit at all.
 
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Hi,
This seems a good and cool mouse. Do you think that tracking issues would appear with a cloth mouse pad?

As for the other minor issues, I think I could deal with them.

What strikes me too is the fact that in Amazon.com the MMO7 has proportionally more bad reviews than the Logitech G700 :-/, but there are some reviews stating that the 64 bit driver does not install and seeing what you write here it doesn't seem to be the case.

Ergonomically speaking I think I'd like it: the mouse is big and has a shape that resembles more or less the G700. The USB cable is very flexible.
 
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Hi,
This seems a good and cool mouse. Do you think that tracking issues would appear with a cloth mouse pad?

As for the other minor issues, I think I could deal with them.

What strikes me too is the fact that in Amazon.com the MMO7 has proportionally more bad reviews than the Logitech G700 :-/, but there are some reviews stating that the 64 bit driver does not install and seeing what you write here it doesn't seem to be the case.

Ergonomically speaking I think I'd like it: the mouse is big and has a shape that resembles more or less the G700. The USB cable is very flexible.

I'm not sure about if it will have issues with a cloth mouse pad as I haven't one well over a decade. All I can tell you is had issues on the desk surface which is made out of your typical mdf and faux wood laminate. The issue could have been that the surface was to smooth or, it could have been that the MMO 7 was seeing it as to bright of a colour. I'm not sure which it was as the surface I have it on know is black and has a bit of a tooth to it. As Rich pointed out elsewhere though, the colour a mouse "sees" is not always the actual colour. I have not had any issues since I switched to this other surface though.


When it comes to driver issues, I've no idea why anyone is saying they don't install to W7 64 as they installed without hassle for me. The thing you have to keep in mind is not everyone takes care of their OS and can make errors during the OS installation. I have a feeling user error is to blame for this or some other type of conflict. They could have also inadvertently downloaded the 32 bit driver or the wrong one. There are a lot of variables involved and unfortunately when it comes to Amazon reviews (or any other e-tailer reviews), one has to assume the reviewer has very limited knowledge of what they are reviewing and the reviews often lack critical information. There is the chance that those complaining about the issue do know what they're doing though. However, out of 34 Amazon reviews, I only saw 2 that mentioned an issue with the driver and both of those had comments from users telling them it was a user error and that they don't have any issues. Unfortunately people like to exaggerate their complaints about a product. (e.g. The was a user on Best Buy trying to exaggerate their complaints with the LG 32CS560 by saying they owned it for 3 months when it has only been on the market for a month at best.) I couldn't even get any results in a Google search despite the claim that "several people have an issue with Windows 7 64 bit driver" which makes that MMO 7 on review on Amazon seem exaggerated at best and makes it look like a user error.
 
I just wanted to do an update on this mouse after about three weeks of ownership.

I have not had a single issue with tracking since I changed the surface I was using it on. The pointer will still track down and to the right when you lift the mouse though but I think several mice share that "flaw".


Other than that, the only performance issue I have is with the WoW addon which has decided to refuse to remember what I drag to it. This could be related to having the MMO 7's keybinds identical on all three modes though in the actual MMO 7 software as well as in the LUA coding for the WoW addon. I don't recall this being an issue before changing those binds to match.

It's really hard to recommend using the WoW addon if you are a more advanced player. You would be better off assigning keybinds in the MMO 7 software and then binding those keys to action bars or macro addons inside of WoW provided you have empty action bar slots. If you don't I believe there are addons that will actually create additional action bars if you need them rather than just modify the existing ones. The WoW addon really needs some extensive work done to it to be usable.

On that note, I implore MadCATZ to change the way the some of the mouse buttons are bound in the MMO 7 software. I am specifically referring to mouse button 3 (pressing down on the scroll wheel), mouse button 4. and mouse button 5. Those keys should be bound as "recorded mouse button clicks" by default and not some arbitrarily assigned keybinds. This is the only mouse I have ever used that has not had those three buttons function like they do on every other 5+ button mouse. These three buttons are not "extra" keys and they should not be treated as such. It's great that you can change the keybind on them if you need to do so but, you shouldn't have to change the default keybind to make them actually be mouse button 3, mouse button 4, and mouse button 5.

By that same token, the keybinds for the mode button need to be dealt away with if at all possible. If keybinds are required for the mode key to function, the user absolutely should be allowed to change them. As it stands now, you are unable to change them on the mouse. You can go into the WoW addon and change the keybinds for the mode button but, it doesn't actually change them on the mouse itself. This results in conflicting keybinds as a result and renders the mode button unusable for me in WoW.

It would also be fantastic if you could deactivate the "lock keys" for mouse button 1 and mouse button 2. I have inadvertently pressed them several times during both PvE and PvP in WoW since both my index and ring finger are in full contact with both of those buttons. As a result of that, my fingers are also in direct contact with the "lock buttons" at all times and it has lead to some WTF moments when those fingers press down rather than just their tips. If you have smaller hands/fingers, you may not run into this issue but those of that don;t will likely have the same problem unless you literally claw it like you were dragging your nails on a chalkboard or an eagle starting to clutch something.


All in all I'm happy with the mouse but there are some definite kinks that need to be ironed out. If the changes I propose could be instituted, this would be an absolutely stellar mouse rather than one that has the potential to be.
 
I've been using the MMO 7 for almost a week and am just now finally getting the hang of it and comfortably using all the buttons. I came from using a G9 so I am comfortable with using thumb buttons and needed more so that's why I picked the MMO 7 up.

With out a doubt this mouse is the greatest I've used so far once you get past the break in and then start using all the buttons like second nature. I use this for BF3 and also bought it for Diablo 3 when it launches.

This is without a doubt the only "many" button mouse that you can comfortably get to all the buttons and the shift key is icing on the cake.

Any other MMO 7 owners know if I can bind the sniper button to also include a key so I can both lower DPI and hold my breath for sniping?
 
Any other MMO 7 owners know if I can bind the sniper button to also include a key so I can both lower DPI and hold my breath for sniping?

I don't play FPS so I'm unfamiliar with the default keybinds and which binds can be changed in the game. That having been said, you should be able to set that button to "latched" which means pressing that button once will make the button act like it's being held down. A second press will make the button stop thinking it's being held. It's sort of like how the mouse button 1 and mouse button 2 lock buttons work only you don;t need an extra button to trigger it.

As far as two commands on the single button, it's possible as that is the default behavior of that button. All you need to do is bind an additional bind/keystroke to that button for whatever the hold your breath keybind is.

e.g. That button was originally triggering the lower DPI for mouse movement and my rocket boots in WoW at the same time so, I had to change it to not use the DPI as I have no need for that in WoW.

Based on that experience, you should be able to set it up how you are wanting to.


You may also need to set that button to "button" rather than "fallback". I don't recall which ones makes the DPI reduction and a button press occur simultaneously.
 
The only thing that's missing is automatic loading of profiles based on the application launched/in use. I sincerely hope support is added for that at some point for the sake of simplicity.

I've actually created software to do this If anyone is interested. You setup profiles to associate with processes to automatically change when detected. It supports the M.M.O.7 Mouse and the Cyborg Keyboard v7. It has a default feature so when no process is detected it will load it, That is good for a Desktop profile. It is still an early project but so far it works perfectly! Overall it's a feature I expected with the mouse and I was really disappointed that it didn't support it so I made it support it. If anyone is interested just let me know and I will release it. I really don't know how to get the word out or where to release it so if anyone has any good ideas as far as where to go to tell people I would really appreciate it!
 
Looks like the button farthest out on the thumb side (the one on the thumb rest) isn't built for sustained usage. Mine broke off just now. It's two connection points are paper thin. Really, really shoddy construction on that button given the tension required to use it. Really not looking forward to a RMA (4 to 6 weeks for processing) . . .
 
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The tracking of the MMO7 is horrible on hard black plastic. I have tested this with the SteelSeries S&S and now I am on the lookout for a new mouse pad...
 
Can anyone please recommend me a mouse pad for this mouse? I never had so much trouble finding a good mouse pad. I have already wasted 40euros on trying to find one. I expect better from a 120euro mouse..............
Edit: The mouse works ok on my older Steelseries 4D, which has black hard plastic and has been worn out on some parts. The material is less rough than the Steelseries S&S. The MMO7 is really sensitive or something because it acts horrible on the worn out parts of my 4D.
 
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Avoid black hard plastic if you can. As you saw in my post in this thread the twin eye laser absolutely relies on getting reflected laser light back into the sensor - if the surface is absorbing that light then it can't get the info back that it needs. Now I'm not saying that all black mats won't work because that's not the case - it's not necessarily the colour that you can see that matters, but more what the laser can see.

There are mats out there that use hard plastic and aren't black. Another option other than hard plastic is aluminium - there's a few options on the market that use that and would work fine.
 
Mouse Tracking:

If this mouse loses it's vertical position one more time forcing me to pick it up I'm going to hurl it against the wall and RMA it. I'm not really going to hurl it but, that should give you an idea about how frequently this is occurring. It is beyond excessive and it happens when you're not even touching the mouse. It just starts acting stupid from just sitting there. It could be a surface issue but if a $15 M205 doesn't have tracking issues, a 6400 DPI gaming mouse that sells for $129.99 sure as hell shouldn't. It just randomly acts like it's higher vertically on the screen than it is and it can't even manage to that right as it's usually on a heavy axis to where the bottom left corner of the screen and the mouse pointer are aligned and then it goes further up the screen despite the fact you are moving it in a straight line parallel to the bottom of the screen. The other complaints are minor as they can be resolved via workarounds or software/addon updates. The tracking issue is completely unacceptable though and far, far, far to frequent. I have read where this type of sensor has issues but I don't recall reading where it happens ever couple of minutes. At least that's how frequently it feels and it is fairly frequent.

*edit This looks like it was related to the surface. I'll update about this in a few days once I can get some more usage time in.


Closing thoughts:

We'll see how this turns out. There are a lot of things I like about the mouse which is a lot of it. There are some things I dislike about the mouse like the small d-pad and the issues with the keybind accessibility. Then there are some things I outright despise about the mouse like the tracking issue. If it wasn't for the tracking issue, I'd be happy overall with it since I can bypass/workaround the issues I have with how keybinds are handled. The tracking issue really sucks the fun out of the mouse though which sucks because this is one of the larger mice on the market with a lot of buttons. There is also the fact that it's customizable to make it more "form fitting" than it typically would be.

I'm really on the fence though because of the tracking issue as that will require a running hardware change and then an RMA under warranty to that change.

My RAT 7 also has the same tracking issues. I tried all the fixes MadCatz provides: cleaning the sensor with qtips and alcohol, blowing it out with canned air, changing surfaces. Currently, the mouse has been sent in for a RMA. I must say that I have been very disappointed.
 
My RAT 7 also has the same tracking issues. I tried all the fixes MadCatz provides: cleaning the sensor with qtips and alcohol, blowing it out with canned air, changing surfaces. Currently, the mouse has been sent in for a RMA. I must say that I have been very disappointed.

Sometimes there is nothing that will work as the twin-eye sensor has an actual issue/defect. At least going by various "I will never buy a mouse with a twin-eye sensor in it" comments that get made in various places.
 
I've given up on my RAT 7. The first one I had the right click button broke and had bad tracking issues on any surface I used it on. The replacement they sent still had tracking issues, so I threw it away. I didn’t even want to sell it, just pure garbage.
 
Thank you for making the action lock buttons programmable!

I am off to trying out more surfaces.. no one has recommended me a hard surface yet
 
Hi
I think I figured this one out. At least with regards to my son's madcatz M.M.O.7 mouse. For no reason at all, and out of the blue, the mouse started to jumpseveral inches down every time he lifted the mouse. The mouse had worked perfectly for over a year and then suddenly started behaving this way.

We started trying every idea mentiond above and elsewhere, without any solution. Anyway, in the following, I will describe the solution I found. Interestingly, it turned out to be a confguration issue

First of all, I doublechecked the driver used. I did this by locating the latest and greatest driver online and installing that.
Then I installed the mouse software. The first time this one crashed, however, second time, after I upgraded the driver, it worked.
Additionally, I then started the software and clicked settings. Now we are really close to the solution

under the DPI settings(the mouse had a 6400DPI spec) it is possible to adjust the X and Y settings of the mouse. Here it gets complicated! as the adjustment can be done in four different fields(they have divided the 0-6400 dpi into intervals).for each field, inspect the settings without changing anything. normally, you will see that the Xand Y setting are set to the same within each field. However, in my case, one of the fields, was off. way off in fact. the X value was a lot higher than the Y value.

Now, the solution - > click "default values" on all four fields. done

Notably, this might not be the solution in your case, nonetheless, within this area of the settings, you can adjust the X and Y value so that your mouse starts behaving okay again. (in fact I made my mouse start go up instead of down when I lifted the mouse, at some point.

surprisingly easy solution. What I found out later was that it is possible to some extent, to configure the mouse, on the mouse. I believe there is a bug which, when certain keys on the mouse is pressed, that allow you to change the X:Y values on the mouse. I believe this is what causes the mouses to behave irradicately.

Have a nice day
Lars
 
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