I can't decide if I want an Ivy Bridge or Sandy Bridge

Q1DM6 said:
Forced to agree. I have no idea why people think this is acceptable.
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The TIM Ivy issue is nothing compared to Intel's history of changing sockets annually just to sell more products.
 
I agree what they did was unacceptable with the TIM. But at the same time either generations processor can push a gtx680 without a bottleneck at basically stock frequency. In that case I would rather have the option for pcie 3.0 incase better cards come down the line (GK110 or 690). Just thinking for the future.. I hope I made the right decision. Maybe they will fix the solder thing down the line because everyone is so upset, but maybe they won't, 85%+ people don't overclock. I will do what I can with it, hopefully I can get 4.6 give or take. I am cool with that coming from a 3.8 Q9550.
 
Dan_D said:
This is pretty accurate. Up to about 4.5GHz takes little or no tweaking. After that you've got to really ramp up the voltages and the heat production goes through the roof. I can get them to post and even run some tasks at 5.0GHz, but your looking at load temps on water in the 87-90c range. At least with my current ambient temps. But this is using a decent water cooling setup.
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How about doing all of us a favor and delid it and use some high quality TIM with direct contact on your water block. I'm dying to know how this will improve temps if at all. :cool:
 
Blackbird said:
Eh, well have you heard about the high temps on IB? And what's causing the high temps?

Do you want to support Intel by buying their IB CPU and tell them: "Intel, i love what you did with Ivy Bridge (deliberately f*cked up the temps only to save a few $ in manufacturing costs) so i want you to make that the new standard in your future processors so all future intel CPUs will have f*cked up temps aswell" ?

If you buy their sh*t IB CPU you indirectly tell them that.
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I suggest you read this. It was already posted in another thread.

http://techreport.com/discussions.x/22859

Straight from Intel:

"However, Intel claims the combination of the new interface material and Ivy's higher thermal density is responsible for the higher temperatures users are observing with overclocked CPUs."

Not saying I would rather have TIM then fluxless solder, but implying that IB is inferior to SB is complete bullshit.

Yes, it has heat issues at super high clocks and yes it doesn't deal well with increased volts. However, you get better performance at stock and equal performance when overclocked. Stop with the non-sense and whining already.
 
Blackbird said:
Eh, well have you heard about the high temps on IB? And what's causing the high temps?

Do you want to support Intel by buying their IB CPU and tell them: "Intel, i love what you did with Ivy Bridge (deliberately f*cked up the temps only to save a few $ in manufacturing costs) so i want you to make that the new standard in your future processors so all future intel CPUs will have f*cked up temps aswell" ?

If you buy their sh*t IB CPU you indirectly tell them that.
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I totally agree. I think Intel deserve major bad rep for this major intentional gimp move.

I hope Intel gets as much bad rep as AMD did over BD.

Intel fix this.
 
Going from 32 nm to 22 nm should give us noticeably better OC:ing performance.
But instead we get WORSE OC:ing performance.
 
Blackbird said:
Going from 32 nm to 22 nm should give us noticeably better OC:ing performance.
But instead we get WORSE OC:ing performance.
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/facepalm

Have you read any tech articles on Ivy Bridge? It's not just a simple die shrink.
 
SonDa5 said:
How about doing all of us a favor and delid it and use some high quality TIM with direct contact on your water block. I'm dying to know how this will improve temps if at all. :cool:
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Because it's not my CPU and I'm not going to potentially wreck one.
 
I'm buiding a new system and going IB. Had I been able to snag a 2600k for $200 that may have changed my mind, but if I'm going to pay regular retail prices or close to it, I'm going with the new stuff. Even if performance is roughly equal, putting a 1 year old processor in my brand new system just isn't as exciting.
 
Blackbird said:
Since Ivy Bridge sucks because of Intels failure with the TIM thing i would buy Sandy Bridge.
I would buy SB in a protest because what Intel has done with IB isn't acceptable.
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I imagine Intel would be very happy to sell you their SB chip? :)

I'm long overdue for a CPU/MB upgrade and still going back and forth between SB-E and IB, but leaning towards IB presently...

(If I already had SB, I would not upgrade. Even though I also plan a major GPU upgrade...)
 
SB for me. It's been a great chip and is cheaper. I got mine for $179 if you include mobo combo from newegg. Is IB gonna be $179?
 
Picked up my order from Microcenter this morning.

3570k $189.99
Asrock Z77 Extreme4 $139.99
Corsair Vengeance LP 1600MHz 8GB $54.99
$50 off for buying motherboard with the processor. So basically the Ram was free.
GTX 680 signature edition on Wed. from Newegg

I'm happy! I will build this next weekend I hope and will let you know if I can get a reasonable overclock on the stock voltage. I don't wanna push the temps, it's not necessary for a one card setup.
 
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I just bit the bullet and ordered a 3570k from NCIX.ca for $238.99 and $7.25 shipping, apparently the best price in Canada. Now I need to settle on a z77 motherboard, was going to go with Gigabyte but I've been reading Overclock.net forums, there are people having some problems with them over there.
 
I'm in the exact same boat. Just ordered a Gigabyte Z77 UDH5 for $177 w/ free shipping from a place called HookBag.ca (they seem reputable enough). Now I'm staring at my NCIX cart, a 2500k for $199 and a 3570k for $238. Can't decide!

Either I go 2500k for higher guaranteed clocks and/or lower temps and less noise from my H100 ... or ... 3570k for hopefully decent clocks (seen a few stories, people needing way too much voltage to maintain 4.5 24/7), better clock for clock but more heat and likely more noise, plus PCI 3.0 on my Z77.

I've changed my mind a half dozen times in the last hour. I think maybe going 2500k isn't the worst idea. I don't NEED PCI 3.0 right now, at least not until I decide to snap up a second 680 (if ever). I can run the Z77 with SB and enjoy 4.5+ with fewer volts and far less fan racket, maybe eBay it in a few months time if and when Intel drops a revision or a new stepping that causes me to reconsider IB. But then I think, "Man, it's only a $40 difference. Go with the newest tech!"

Help meh! I need to commit to something before one or both options are sold out at their current pricing. =P
 
Deeky said:
I'm in the exact same boat. Just ordered a Gigabyte Z77 UDH5 for $177 w/ free shipping from a place called HookBag.ca (they seem reputable enough). Now I'm staring at my NCIX cart, a 2500k for $199 and a 3570k for $238. Can't decide!

Either I go 2500k for higher guaranteed clocks and/or lower temps and less noise from my H100 ... or ... 3570k for hopefully decent clocks (seen a few stories, people needing way too much voltage to maintain 4.5 24/7), better clock for clock but more heat and likely more noise, plus PCI 3.0 on my Z77.

I've changed my mind a half dozen times in the last hour. I think maybe going 2500k isn't the worst idea. I don't NEED PCI 3.0 right now, at least not until I decide to snap up a second 680 (if ever). I can run the Z77 with SB and enjoy 4.5+ with fewer volts and far less fan racket, maybe eBay it in a few months time if and when Intel drops a revision or a new stepping that causes me to reconsider IB. But then I think, "Man, it's only a $40 difference. Go with the newest tech!"

Help meh! I need to commit to something before one or both options are sold out at their current pricing. =P
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Don't overthink it, I've been going back and forth for the last 3 weeks. For the extra $40 just go with the latest thing.
 
Naked Snake said:
Don't overthink it, I've been going back and forth for the last 3 weeks. For the extra $40 just go with the latest thing.
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My only real concern is the lottery (assuming one exists). I'm seeing so many different numbers being tossed around for IB: 4.8 and decent temps w/ H100, then I see guys struggling to maintain anything above 4.4 without some serious cooling/noise. I've been bitten by "early adopter syndrome" before. I'm a bit shy, nowadays.
 
Deeky said:
My only real concern is the lottery (assuming one exists). I'm seeing so many different numbers being tossed around for IB: 4.8 and decent temps w/ H100, then I see guys struggling to maintain anything above 4.4 without some serious cooling/noise. I've been bitten by "early adopter syndrome" before. I'm a bit shy, nowadays.
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I haven't thought about that, I was under the impression that people with extreme temps were applying too much voltage or just trying to push it too hard, seems IB should be kept at 4.6GHz max unless you have some fancy cooling setup. I'm not comfortable messing with voltage and I don't plan to push it beyond 4GHz. I've been agonizing over this build for weeks and weeks. It feels good to hit that submit button and finally be locked in, weight off my shoulders. First world problems!
 
Naked Snake said:
First world problems!
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Haha, right?

I'm hoping for 4.5Ghz without breaking a sweat, and I'd be super happy with 4.8. With IB's tiny clock for clock performance lead, it really feels like six of one, half dozen of the other. I guess temps are my deciding factor. SB @ 4.8 or IB @ 4.4/5. If they both perform similar, who's hotter? Who will create more fan noise?
 
This would seem to indicate that a 4.6 3570k @ 1.3v is approx equivalent to a 4.9 2500k @ 1.376v in terms of performance, but the IB does run hotter. This article on Anand makes 1.3v look like like "the line", even under water (barring some crazy cooling setup), as you're starting to see 90+ temps at that point ("95c at 1.3v is a real value"). Granted, IB has a higher TJ max, but still ...

It seems that Anand was able to hit 4.6 at only 1.15v, generating temps of just north of 75c. On the other hand, the fella on Power Up is reporting similar temps at 1.3v. Anand claims they were on an open bench closed loop (I think). Not sure what the Power Up guy was using, cooler wise. Must've been pretty beefy.

Even with this info, I'm still undecided ...
 
Long overdue for an upgrade and I think I'm decided.

My bottom line would be PCI-E 3.0 support in a new purchase at this point.. So it was either SB-E or IB. Was going back and forth between the 3820 and the 3770K.

Aesthetically, I much prefer the 3820. Purpose built, no dead cores, no precious space wasted on a weak IGP in a high end chip (!), all that great I/O bandwidth. And of course having oneself positioned for IB-E. Oh, and presumably -- solder, the cheaper alternative used in IB I must confess bothering me too...

All that said, the 3770K and Z77 chipset bring it all together for my current requirements. And I think I'm surrendering on the aesthetic front and also not seeing any point to trying to future proof my motherboard choice. (By the time IB-E comes out, I might be more interested in whatever new motherboards come out or Haswell, anyway...)

So yes, I think 3770 Z77 it will be. Still trying to figure out if I care about Thunderbolt. And thinking probably not so much...
 
ASUS boards have a thunderbold header, at least my P8Z77-V Pro does. You just need to purchase the adapter seperatly.
 
RamonGTP said:
ASUS boards have a thunderbold header, at least my P8Z77-V Pro does. You just need to purchase the adapter seperatly.
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Thanks Ramon! Will factor that in. (Guess now I need to finalize my decision on motherboard and memory... :) )
 
Kinda sucks that (given regular Joe overclocking) you can get the same performance out of a 1.5 year old 2600K that you can get from a 1 day old 3770K.

Just go for the best deal, unless you don't know how to OC.
 
Naked Snake said:
What do your balls say? I think they would tell you to go with the 3570k.
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My balls and I are not on speaking terms atm. We've made some poor decisions, lately.

I've decided OC'ing is important to me, so SB it is.

Trigger puller on the 2500k for $199. Relieved, for better or worse.

My single 680 doesn't need PCI 3.0. I'll sit on SB for a bit, see what shakes out a few months down the road. If Intel releases something I'm confident in, I'll sell the 2500k for a bit of a loss and step up to i7 IB ... maybe drop a second 680 in there to take advantage. :D

I save $40 now, probably lose a few bucks on the resale. Either way, I have peace of mind. Worth it.
 
Any thoughts on the value of an eVGA SLI X68 with 6GB 1600 Ram, an i7 920 and an EnzoTech HSF would be? I am thinking of making the switch to IB even though the performance seems very similar to my 3.6GHz OC 920, but am curious what my out of pocket would be. I think I would do it if I could have IB for around $200 out of pocket.
 
UPDATE: How do I put my printscreen into a post? I have good temps but I'm not able to show you cause paste doesn't work and I dunno how to use the URL thing...

anyways I am at 4.6GHz on my 3570k with the hottest core hitting 68°C on standard setting for IBT with an NH-D14.
 
Got 4.7 IBT stable as well with 1.215 vcore.

I couldn't get 4.8 under 1.29vcore and I didn't want to cross 1.3vcore even though temps were only in the mid 70's.. I must have seated my cooler right for a change :)

I am going to enjoy 4.7GHz I almost guarantee I wouldn't have had this clock with the late model silicon
2600k I returned.
 
For months I wanted to upgrade to Ivy Bridge, now because of the "shortcut" to me that Intel has taken with the TIM issue I think I'll go with a good used deal on a i5 2500K or i7 2600K/2700K.

May wait until this time next year to see the new processor offerings Intel will come up with.

I do run my processors at stock speed and think that IB as constituted now will be worth a bit less than a SB in the future if one wanted to sell to an overclocker as well as PCIE 3.0 does nothing for me now maybe next year with what I deem to be a well constructed processor. May not be what many others think, but it's my gut opinion.:)
 
ndt said:
For months I wanted to upgrade to Ivy Bridge, now because of the "shortcut" to me that Intel has taken with the TIM issue I think I'll go with a good used deal on a i5 2500K or i7 2600K/2700K.

May wait until this time next year to see the new processor offerings Intel will come up with.

I do run my processors at stock speed and think that IB as constituted now will be worth a bit less than a SB in the future if one wanted to sell to an overclocker as well as PCIE 3.0 does nothing for me now maybe next year with what I deem to be a well constructed processor. May not be what many others think, but it's my gut opinion.:)
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In my opinion, people blew the TIM thing way out of proportion.

IB has the capability to overclock higher than SB, it's just more heat limited than SB was. SB was architecturally limited; you hit a certain wall that didn't allow you to clock any higher. This was shown by the 5.6-5.8 ghz capable chips being sold for significantly more (over $900 as I recall).

On the other hand, based on preliminary testing, IB CPUs can be taken to their max multiplier (63x) if you have LN2 cooling, and will overclock higher than SB if you're on some sort of sub-ambient cooling, like phase-change. Performance-wise on air and water, it'll be similar to SB, although the voltage degradation issue might concern some.
 
ndt said:
For months I wanted to upgrade to Ivy Bridge, now because of the "shortcut" to me that Intel has taken with the TIM issue I think I'll go with a good used deal on a i5 2500K or i7 2600K/2700K.

May wait until this time next year to see the new processor offerings Intel will come up with.

I do run my processors at stock speed and think that IB as constituted now will be worth a bit less than a SB in the future if one wanted to sell to an overclocker as well as PCIE 3.0 does nothing for me now maybe next year with what I deem to be a well constructed processor. May not be what many others think, but it's my gut opinion.:)
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What CPU are you upgrading from?
 
LittleMeEgo said:
For a Z77 board, definitely go Ivy because that platform has been designed primarily for it. There are some issues with SB chips on Z77 currently. If you are willing, buy a 2600k today and exchange it with the retailer when IB comes out Sunday. :)
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What issues when using a SB CPU on an IB Mobo?
 
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