Gateway 9310XL [H] Evaluation

YEAAA FIRST POST. For 2500 Gateway could have done better. I wonder if Gateway supports A64's. If not then I guess the price is good for gateway.

EDIT: Darn 2nd post. That is what I get for leaving my computer for a few minutes.
 
Great review! This is the kind of stuff I want to see--systems I might possibly reccomend to to my friends/family!

Oh yeah! I have to say that I thought the grade you gave was very fair. Thanks guys!
 
I just read through it. It was very well written. Very reasonable points, and the support sounds much better than Dells just going from your experience vs. mine with Dell.

However, as a machine that was supposedly configured for gaming, it doesn't seem like it quite fills the bill for a few reasons IMO: 1) all the bloatware, 2) the 100C GPU load temps, 3) The out of date chipset and gfx drivers, 4) The inability to stock a 7800GTX

The bloatware thing drags any OEM system down. When I get an OEM laptop, I tend to immediately reformat and reinstall the OS clean so I can have control over what goes on it. It would be nice to stock a reinstall CD, and not force a factory settings image with all the crapware on it. Also, not supplying an OS reinstall CD is asking for trouble if you want to change your hard drive out later or don't feel like burning several CDs...

Other than that, it sounds like a decent computer that could hold its own in benchmarks and games, but I'm still not convinced that Gateway can supply the OEM market with gaming-grade PCs. The $2500 price tag seems a bit much here.

I'm impressed with the level of detail in your review and think the points you brought up were valid, and the review "percentages" you gave were well thought. Speaking of percentages, an 8.5 is a "B" in academic terms and as far as I can tell from your review, this is a fair grade.

Keep 'em coming! :)
 
Thanks for taking the time to respond!

I agree, the bloatware and outdated drivers really dragged the system down. Their new flagship, the FX400XL does not come with the option to configure a 7800GTX either, which boggles my mind because it'd also be COOLER than the 6800 Ultra, in addition to be faster...

We should be getting the FX400XL in from Gateway soon.
 
Nice Eval ! Good job. Hopefully there will be more system evals.

Some points

1. I have to agree with the bloatware, got an OEM (read Dell) laptop and it was jammed pack with AOL, blah, blah

2. Too bad they dont give a recovery CD, that seems like the trend these days (i had to beg them to send me one).
 
oh yeah about the restore cd, that shocked me because my gateway bought in january came with a restore dvd so thank god i didnt have to make my own and such.

the gpu temps are high, but thats cuz theres a passive heat sink. they did that with their x800s also
 
Great review Morley!

I'm gald that you are showing a mix of small "botique" companies along with the large traditional type companies.

I think the stability and support parts of your review will help interested customers.

Keep up the great work :)
 
However...

Operating a stable machine is different from running a machine that has been optimized. In our case, the 9310XL has a few points holding it back from being a truly exceptional machine.

First, get rid of the bloatware. While there is money to be made by installing software from certain vendors, consider the hassle that it creates for the customer. If a software vendor's product includes what is commonly held as spyware, don't install it. Leave installing toolbars in Internet Explorer to the customer. Finally, only install McAfee OR Norton, but not both. From what I could gather on Gateway's website, you have the option as to which you get, but I'm not sure why both were installed on our machine. It's overkill, and it only creates a frustrating computing experience.

Next, make sure your drivers are up to date. The first thing I noticed when I received this machine was that the NVIDIA drivers were version 71.25 from 1/10/5, which was about 2 generations behind the latest available on NVIDIA's website. While Gateway seems to do a good job of offering newer drivers on their website as they become available, they are still behind, and this machine should have come with newer drivers. In addition, having to upgrade the Intel chipset drivers to alleviate a performance issue in BF2 could have been avoided by installing newer drivers to begin with. Even thought BF2 came out after I received this machine, there are certain problems down the line you can avoid by always making sure you're sending out the latest Windows Hardware Quality Labs (WHQL) certified drivers. As it stands, the Intel chipset .inf drivers were dated from early 2004 and were at least one generation too old at the time our 9310XL shipped. Had Gateway shipped the machine with one generation newer drivers, I would not have had to deal with the performance degradation that I experienced before upgrading the drivers.

Finally, come up with a disaster recovery process that at least allows the customer to install a fresh copy of Windows XP. It is nerve racking to have the only factory-restoration media on the very computer that may require it, while it is up to the customer to create their own restore media...that they can only do once.
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I quoted it this way so you would know where to make the correction.
 
Great review. As an owner of Gateway 835GM I agree the systems do come with too much bloat ware. One thing I like allot about Gateway is the use Of BTX the cases are very quiet.
 
It's nice to to read posative statements, or anything that doesn't start with "Gateway sucks because." Really an OEM is an OEM. If you don't know how to build a PC or what you need to buy to be able to do what you want, OEM is a great way to do things. Gateway is moving slowly but surely into the enthusist market, If you remember early alienware computer had the same old full tower case, Just had a customer paint job. Alot of the times things are configured for stability rather than performance. When you have a large customer base over the age of 50 that has only learned what they know by calling tech support, There can be alot of problems ranging from inadvertant mis-use to compatability issues.

If your a day one newbie when it comes to computers the gateway recovery process is infinatly easier than making a ghost image or even installing xp (one button tap and 2-3 clicks, good stuff) For all of you who read that it doesn't include restore CD's, this is true. Gateway packages thier computer with multiple blank discs and the computer prompts you to make a recovery CD/DVD (You do get a choice, Blank DVDs just don't ship with the system) So for all of you that kill the factory load before you even turn it on, You're missing a step, When I got my 7426GX (athlon m 64 :D ) I used the factory install ONCE, To burn the recovery DVD, Then nuked the whole thing and got XP pro OEM installed. Installing drivers at that pointis kinda tricky, But anyone who acctually knows what they are doing will be able to find it.
Hope this helps.
 
Good review. However in the Far Cry section of the gaming benchmarks you say you were running at 1600 X 1200, not 1280 X 1024, i'm guessing that's just a typo? The screenshot shows 1280 X 1024.

I'm a little shocked that they included both Norton and McAfee on the system. I would think that would cause all sorts of conflicts and errors that the average user wouldn't understand. If they had both on there they might think they're "doubly" protected. Wierd.

Nice job on the section where you call up the tech support, that was interesting and useful. I've seen a lot of OEM computers that come with out of date drivers, but like you said, i'm sure it's tough to keep up to date on all the drivers for the all the components in all the systems that a company builds.

It's a nice looking system, i haven't worked with a Gateway in a long time, or seen one recently.

Like i said, good review, keep em coming. :D
 
I find the virus scanner issue to be interesting. I'm surprised to see full versions of the software; I'm used to seeing trials that last 60 days or so (Norton usually). If it hadn't been for the fact they installed TWO of them, it would've been points in my book.

As for restore CDs and the like, I've never been fond of them, but have found use for them on occasion. OEMs really don't like it when you replace their copy of the OS. Honestly, my preferred method would be a Windows XP CD with a seperate CD to "restore factory defaults." That way the bloatware is optional at least. It does complicate the process somewhat, but I'm thinking a simple three-step deal on the back of the CD jacket would be helpful enough.

Speaking of bloatware, I have to agree with the article. I don't need 2 toolbars, 3 CD authoring tools, 4 browsers, 2 antivirus programs, a 60 day firewall trial, an AOL install, an MSN install, and Kitchen Sink 2.0. I know, choosing just one is hard, but sometimes OEMs need to make the hard choice. Oh, advertising icons, trial software, and such is a peeve of mine - these people already paid for a computer. They don't really need a third antivirus program, do they? :rolleyes:

Anyways, I feel the review covered everything I'm interested in knowing about. I actually quite enjoy seeing the progress OEMs have made. It's a far cry from what it used to be, though I won't be using one for my main rig anytime soon.
 
Do we know who OEM's the videocard? Kind of interested in one for a project. Thanks.
 
Extremely well written article Morley. I'm very impressed by this machine. Personally I've always thought of Gateway as a 1.5 Tier company, and this changes my mind. I'm especially impressed by how quiet the machine is. After years of O/C and Tornado-like fans, I've given up on all that noise and gone the Silent PC route.

I have only one negative comment, and that is what I feel is an omission on your part. The only read concern I have about OEMs these days, especially Dell is the use of proprietary parts. Dell is using a completely proprietary PSU design in their high-end XPS machines, is the Gateway PSU proprietary? If someone asks me for recommendation on an OEM machine, this is something I would want to tell them about.

Is the mobo proprietary? Yes it uses an Intel 915 BTX board but that doesn’t mean a whole lot since OEM routinely subcontract out their mobos to a Taiwanese company.
I would like to see this issue addressed in future OEM reviews. Other than that very well done.
 
Ok to answer the question about the anti virus software.

Mcaffe is mearly Mcaffe anti spyware with the control panel installed, It doesn't have the firewall or virus scan. Norton internet security is also installed, Trust me, Having 30% of your overall call volume being because of spyware and not being able to support it outside of reloading the system is a hassle, So they ship with that software now, A tad late sure, but at least they got it started. They suggest only activating one or the other because mcaffe seems to dislike live update, So they conflict. It's just a choice.

The motherboard has alot of nice features for an OEM, 4 sata ports, gigabit ethernet, DDR2 PCIe etc etc,
Even a floppy controller, But it has been reduced to a single ide controller only allowing for two drives, But "high end" and "Ultra ata133" don't fit together very well, Two CD/DVD burners is more than enough.
 
qdemn7 said:
Extremely well written article Morley. I'm very impressed by this machine. Personally I've always thought of Gateway as a 1.5 Tier company, and this changes my mind. I'm especially impressed by how quiet the machine is. After years of O/C and Tornado-like fans, I've given up on all that noise and gone the Silent PC route.

I have only one negative comment, and that is what I feel is an omission on your part. The only read concern I have about OEMs these days, especially Dell is the use of proprietary parts. Dell is using a completely proprietary PSU design in their high-end XPS machines, is the Gateway PSU proprietary? If someone asks me for recommendation on an OEM machine, this is something I would want to tell them about.

Is the mobo proprietary? Yes it uses an Intel 915 BTX board but that doesn’t mean a whole lot since OEM routinely subcontract out their mobos to a Taiwanese company.
I would like to see this issue addressed in future OEM reviews. Other than that very well done.
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the pc uses a standard psu unit, atx as i have an antec in my 820gm.

the mobo is NOT proprietary as i have asked gateway and its a standard btx mobo which is upgradeable as soon as btx mobos become available
 
I really like the idea of making reviews that are not only for the hardcore market.
I love the idea of stating what bloatware is on it, how the keyboard/mouse feel, and so on. That's SOOOO much more important than those extra 2 fps.

For the next system, how about reviewing one that is a little more budget-minded?

edit: For the benchmarks, maybe skip a game or two to add more office-like benchmarks.
Like along the lines of "We had 3 windows of firefox running, were burning a CD, editing a file in photoshop and chatting on ICQ all while watching a DVD. This was/was not a smooth experience."
While that is highly subjective, I think it matters more than game benchmark number 58. If a game does well in HL2, Doom3, FarCry and Splinter Cell, I'd expect it to perform well in other games too.

Perhaps try more different games. 3 shooters (the big 3 I guess, HL2 D3 and FC), 1 or 2 RTS (while having some huge battle. Supreme Commander should be good for this when it comes out), and, say, WoW (which was a good start on getting more variety).
Not everyone plays FPS all the time, even though they tend to have the best graphics.
 
PCJ said:
I really like the idea of making reviews that are not only for the hardcore market.
I love the idea of stating what bloatware is on it, how the keyboard/mouse feel, and so on. That's SOOOO much more important than those extra 2 fps.

For the next system, how about reviewing one that is a little more budget-minded?

edit: For the benchmarks, maybe skip a game or two to add more office-like benchmarks.
Like along the lines of "We had 3 windows of firefox running, were burning a CD, editing a file in photoshop and chatting on ICQ all while watching a DVD. This was/was not a smooth experience."
While that is highly subjective, I think it matters more than game benchmark number 58. If a game does well in HL2, Doom3, FarCry and Splinter Cell, I'd expect it to perform well in other games too.

Perhaps try more different games. 3 shooters (the big 3 I guess, HL2 D3 and FC), 1 or 2 RTS (while having some huge battle. Supreme Commander should be good for this when it comes out), and, say, WoW (which was a good start on getting more variety).
Not everyone plays FPS all the time, even though they tend to have the best graphics.
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Thanks for the suggestion, we are indeed going to be doing a budget machine next, and we are changing the games lineup to cover a wider breadth of gameplay...
 
qdemn7 said:
Extremely well written article Morley. I'm very impressed by this machine. Personally I've always thought of Gateway as a 1.5 Tier company, and this changes my mind. I'm especially impressed by how quiet the machine is. After years of O/C and Tornado-like fans, I've given up on all that noise and gone the Silent PC route.

I have only one negative comment, and that is what I feel is an omission on your part. The only read concern I have about OEMs these days, especially Dell is the use of proprietary parts. Dell is using a completely proprietary PSU design in their high-end XPS machines, is the Gateway PSU proprietary? If someone asks me for recommendation on an OEM machine, this is something I would want to tell them about.

Is the mobo proprietary? Yes it uses an Intel 915 BTX board but that doesn’t mean a whole lot since OEM routinely subcontract out their mobos to a Taiwanese company.
I would like to see this issue addressed in future OEM reviews. Other than that very well done.
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Good point and that is something we can easily cover. Consider it done.
 
BTX is kewl….I would never even consider passive cooling for my GPU/CPU--it's just not really possible. The fact that Gateway was able to keep a 6800U stable with passive cooling and poor cable management is awesome. Quiet computing here we come! Good review.
 
I almost wish that you guys had some trouble with the hardware in that machine because Gateway's tech. support can be an absolute nightmare. I own one of their laptops and it really is a quality machine but their support has led me to decide I will never buy one of their machines again.

Working as a computer repair tech. for the last year I have sent 3 machines back to Gateway for service:

The first time they sent back the wrong machine and then lost the proprietary power supply to it (it was a very integrated desktop/monitor thing). When I contacted them they offered me a $20 credit for the $90 part. I bitched at them for weeks and finally got a new power supply.

The second time the machine came back with the motherboard only paritally mounted (about half of the mounting holes were empy) and unrepaired.

The third time it was my laptop. My screen died and they replaced it but also saw fit to swap out my hard drive. Unfortunately, the hard drive was not involved in the problem AND it was a bigger one that I had purchased myself. I spend over a month on the phone and in emails with them and I finally had to file a complaint with the BBB to get the cost of the drive refunded.
 
Don't think that the only time we call tech support is if we have a problem.....
 
I have one of Gateways other BTX machines and have been enjoying it for some months now. It's rock solid stable and very quiet. I used to be one that would only build my own systems, but I was in a pinch and needed a new system. I picked up a Gateway 700GR for about $800. P4 550 (3.4GHz 800FSB) Intel BTX Mobo 1GB ram, DVD+R/W DL drive, ATI X300 PCI-e (I don't do gaming on the PC) etc. I am very happy with this system. So far this has been a much better system than my work machine (Dell somthingorother 450 (dual Xenon 1gb ram, etc).
 
jebo_4jc said:
BTX is kewl….I would never even consider passive cooling for my GPU/CPU--it's just not really possible. The fact that Gateway was able to keep a 6800U stable with passive cooling and poor cable management is awesome. Quiet computing here we come! Good review.
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Strictly taken the CPU isn't passively cooled in this system as a fan is ducted to the heatsink :p

I've actually done a similar thing with all of my ATX systems: a duct runs from the CPU's heatsink to the back exhaust fan. This way all heat produced by the CPU is immediately removed from the system.


Good review, BTW :)
 
nice... really impressed with the stability...when it comes to OEMs stability and Support are the two legs on which a system stands...most people who buy from OEMs either dont know how to mess with their computers or dont want to have to do so...

So the main thing is building a system that minimizes the chance of having to turn for support and second is, in the event of a problem, delivering that support effectively...

Now this is a machine I WOULD recommend my aunt to buy...it would give me a break from having to fix her current system every other week.

And might not be as fast as Velocity Micro´s system you reviewed, but at 2000 dollars less and WAY better stability, this one is absolutely a better buy for non-enthusiast gamers...

Now THIS is how reviews like this help...not only for the system alone but to see how it stacks up to others similar systems....
 
Elledan said:
Strictly taken the CPU isn't passively cooled in this system as a fan is ducted to the heatsink :p

I've actually done a similar thing with all of my ATX systems: a duct runs from the CPU's heatsink to the back exhaust fan. This way all heat produced by the CPU is immediately removed from the system.

Good review, BTW :)
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True, but when you are pseudo-passively cooling a 6800 Ultra then LMK:cool:

PS. Instead of CPU heat being removed from the system, wouldn't the primary effect be the CPU is fed cool air?
 
if anyone purchases the gateway complete security bunlde (99.99 package) it includes 5 pieces of software. norton internet security, spysweeper, windows washer, pre empt and finally ghost surf.

i have some vital info for u. especially if u buy this for a relitive that isnt to tech savvy. install them in the following proceedure.

norton internet security > pre empt > ghost surf > windows washer > spysweeper.

now there's a few things found with the software. firstly if u get a issue when opening nis and getting a script error preventing u from seing the status of the software. go into pre empt > options > fixes > uncheck the fourth one which is about securing ie my computer or something. restart and the script goes away.

if u get the issue with active x being disabled this is a issue with pre empt and often cant be fixed unless u uninstall and reinstall the program.

also if u install the package u may get a question from norton about proxy.exe or ghostproxy.exe attempting to access the net. do not block this. if u find that u lose the ability to view a page after installing the bundle go into nis then go to the firewall then programs then make sure ghost proxy isnt being blocked.

now a big problem is something keeps causing an internal error with nis (2k5). i dont believe its to do with the other software in the bundle but it means nis has to be uninstalled and reinstalled. this poses quite an annoyance as u have to remove the entire bundle and start from scratch with it.

spysweeper has been found to impede the install of nis so yes it has to go to when uninstalling and reinstalling nis.

i know this isnt directly related to the article but gateway does recommend the software to a great deal of customers. (id prefer the customers not have to pay to get the above problems fixed) its believed 30-40% of call flow is generated due to spyware and virus's and just like any other manufacturer these problems are not going to be covered under warrenty and tech support.

also if u get software from gateway dont expect the tech support staff to help u with it. its third party so as far as gateway is concerned its up to the software manufacturer to support it.
 
Well I worked for Gateway back b/t '02 and '03. I was impressed then with their quailty and I still am today. :D I have to say that I am a price shopper though so I will always take the better deal which is use my skills and build it myself. I dont need the 24hr and 48hr warranties especially with so many spare parts around and a good book.

Bloatware is a staple of OEM's. They make a decent amount of money from all the software they include with these systems. Its why I reload all my friends PCs with a clean version of Windows after they buy their computer. No one should be hassled by that crap. :mad:

Anyway Im glad they are still around the make PCs because things were looking grim back when I worked for them (one reason I left).
 
gateway is releasing a new type of recovery media for the systems to adress such problems as u have discussed.

following info applies to the fx400 series and later models.

you will se a return of recieving the o.s disc. this will not be a full copy of the o.s like u used to get this will be part of a system restoration process. it will be bootable and the o.s can be installed from it though it is not recommended a reinstall is done with this method. (using the f11 key at startup is the best recommended process. this will not apply if u replace the hdd outside of warrenty)

the drivers and applications will still be held on the hdd with the recovery software there to make these discs. u will not recieve blank media for these discs.

keep in mind gateway will only replace cd's within the first 15 days of ownership. when u recieve the computer u must make sure u have everything. finding out later that u dont have the o.s disc will mean u end up paying 200 for a copy of xp home 300 for xp pro. (if u choose to buy the o.s disc via gateway)
 
Morley said:
Our latest evaluation is up, and you can check it out here.
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cool. the funny thing about the passive video card cooling is that was my first thought when i bought my first BTX system back in April: http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=905747 (pictures are down, sorry).

pxc said:
The thickness of the cooling doesn't matter though. It would be interesting to add a tall heatpipe on a video card in a BTX case because it won't interfere with anything. That could eliminate one of the fans since the airflow from intake fan would run through it. :D
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Excellent job Chris.

As for the McAffee and Norton, I've seen the same thing on some HP junk, a friend of mine bought, for $499, along with Spysweeper.

QJ
 
pxc said:
cool. the funny thing about the passive video card cooling is that was my first thought when i bought my first BTX system back in April: http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=905747 (pictures are down, sorry).
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Do you have a pic of your BTX system? Kudos on the heat pipe call...it's a good idea and I was tickled to see it in the Gateway. I'm building a BTX system for my dad, using Chenbro's miniBTX chassis.
 
QwertyJuan said:
Excellent job Chris.

As for the McAffee and Norton, I've seen the same thing on some HP junk, a friend of mine bought, for $499, along with Spysweeper.

QJ
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Thanks man! ;)
 
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