Lmg is kind of in a weird place. They're doing a ton of investment into state of the art testing equipment and staff, yet make dumbed down videos to reach the largest audience. GN on the other hand commits to in depth content at the sacrifice of losing the lowest common denominator viewer, making less entertaining yet more technical content.
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Gamers Nexus vs LinusTechTips: Smackdown
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Twisted Kidney
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GN's shit is mostly the same benchmark barf that every other techtuber makes. They put on airs, but the product is pretty much the exact same as everyone else just extra boring, and with superior hair. The information remains the same.
Read an old [H] video card review if you want to see what the ebb and flow of an article should be. Of course it's doesn't help that I loathe youtube reviews (and video reviews in general). I might be a bit harsh on all of them. I mean, I kind of dislike all of them.
Apparently LMG is trying to do some kind of suite of automated bench-marking software to accelerate the benchmark barf. Unsupervised, automated benchmarks open up the troubling potential for shenanigans when it comes to automating settings changes to tamper with benchmarking. You watch DLSS or FSR just magically turn back on to get those scores up.
pututu
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This feud attracts more discussions, comments and what-not than the actual product or tech news reviews, lol.
WorldExclusive
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Reviewing a product he bought knowing it was going to be bad and then trashing the company for it. GN doesn't like pre-builds, so why buy one for review? There's a difference.
All of this is nonsense, unprofessional child like behavior GN also engages in.
blackmomba
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Yes I agree, I really think they should fight too.
Cage match, bare knuckles though
Steve has put on a bit of weight but he could turn it around easy
Linus, on the other hand, is a twig and would get torn to shreds
Even without training, I still think Steve has the upper hand
Digital Viper-X-
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How does he know it's going to be bad ahead of time? I think it's their job to investigate and figure it out and report on it (or at least that is the idea).
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Brackle
Old Timer
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Exactly this, you have no idea how a pre-built PC is going to come to the customer. If they know GN is going to review it, you know damn well that company will "make sure" that its tip-top and running perfectly.
If you buy it like any normal customer, then you will get it like everyone else straight from the factory. Could be good could be bad. Thats on the company to make sure everyone's PC's is good. Not just a major influencer. THAT is why I love seeing those reviews. You know how many young kids/adults want to buy an Alienware because of the name? They have no idea that they are trash and just look cool while performing terribly.
That is why we so many reviews with kids/adults having a top tier system, yet saying games run slow and its terrible....Well look at that pre-built PC you bought.
Ok done Ranting.
pututu
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What's the odd in draftkings for Steve?
"The more you play, the more you'll earn."
Chassepot
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Eh. There's people who like to work on their own cars and aren't fans of repair shops. As someone who doesn't really like working on their own car, I'm inclined to ask those people if there are shops they like because knowing they're going to scrutinize usually means their thumbs up is a sign of confidence.
GN saying a pre-built is well built, has proper ventilation, isn't sent from the factory to thermal throttle, etc. is useful for people in the pre-bulit market. Sure some if it is going to end up as clickbait when they buy an Alienware EZ-Bake tower and we all know it's going to be a disaster. But when it comes to the iBuyPower and places like that which are lesser known, semi-"boutique" getting a sense of the build quality and the parts selection they use is, again, important and valuable information.
This isn't exactly a secret, either; it's why testers buy stuff through regular retail channels all the time. Consumer Reports, whatever you may think of them, has been doing that for decades.
And Steve's seen a couple of prebuilts he said were pretty good. He doesn't seem to be going into these reviews with an axe to grind.
Prince Valiant
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Reminds me of video game development studios. Businesses should relocate somewhere cheap if they can get away with it, but they won't.
next-Jin
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Jay lost me over a year ago, his content got way worse. Steve's issues were solved when he started putting timestamps on his videos. Hardware Unboxed I like, they did a great job on the AM5 DDR5 tuning videos in collaboration with Actually Hardcore Overclocking. That was how I found out about AHO and the memory timings for certain modules. It was click it and forget it and showed meaningful improvements that are measurable. I watch all of them at times but mainly focus on Steve and Hardware Unboxed.
I think that's another issue I have with LTT. They have the resources to address issues like that and others and create positive change that has something like 15 times larger reach than the other guys. But what we get are dumb videos of fooling around filled with irregularities or bad data.
DukenukemX
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I feel that thermals are extremely important. If something ever fails in a computer or car, chances are it got too hot too often. As for Gamers Nexus vs Hardware Unboxed, I tend to watch them both because they offer their own unique perspective on things. LTT for me was never considered a good tech review source, but they do review products that nobody else does like Apple for example, even though they're really bad at it. I also think that LTT has been pro Apple for a while, due to how badly their reviews are handled which tend to favor Apple. Hardware Unboxed did review Apple products properly but it's obviously not something they do often.
As for why Gamers Nexus did this, it's probably due to so many people who watch LTT instead of Gamers Nexus. If you watch a review on a product, then chances are you won't go see a second video from Gamers Nexus or Hardware Unboxed. Gamers Nexus has been watching a lot of LTT videos, including the Wan show which I find to be too long and boring. They found errors in their reviews and collected this information. They've got enough to make a video which will certainly benefit them. As for Jayztwocents, we don't talk about him. If you followed his advice from last year and panic bought GPU's, then he screwed you. He clearly made that video to help AIB's get more sales in before the inevitable GPU price crash would occur. That means Jayztwocents has a relationship with AIB's that benefit each other, and will screw you when the opportunity is available.
View: https://youtu.be/w5rb7rrmp1c
The tech industry must be watching this play out with their mouths agape, their entire marketing model is built around the influence they wield over influencers. Now that GN has practically destroyed the biggest purveyor of paid ads presented as entertainment, the behemoth behind the biggest annual tech-tuber convention has been brought to its knees, well who else can afford for Tech Jesus's gaze to fall upon their channel?
I don't think people realise the scale of what just happened, the entire YT tech community has been shaken to its core, the tech industry is going to have to rethink how they interact with influencers, and a lot of channels are going to go under as a result of this because if they can't put out biased fluff pieces dressed as entertainment what the hell else do they have to offer?
GN literally is throwing the money grubbers out of the temple, it's biblical.
I don't think people realise the scale of what just happened, the entire YT tech community has been shaken to its core, the tech industry is going to have to rethink how they interact with influencers, and a lot of channels are going to go under as a result of this because if they can't put out biased fluff pieces dressed as entertainment what the hell else do they have to offer?
GN literally is throwing the money grubbers out of the temple, it's biblical.
sfsuphysics
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Yeah he didn't do it, but it'd be kind of naive of him to think nothing would happen as a result of mentioning the guy's channel but who knows maybe he thought he was doing a solid by giving him a bump, internet stans are a weird bunch. That said if the guy committed suicide because of hateful comments posted on videos he made he was in the way wrong business.
Cypher-
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I think you are woefully overestimating the impact this will have. Remember a few weeks ago when Reddit threw a tantrum and boatloads of subs went private? As far as I am concerned, Reddit is now operating exactly how it was before it started.
Give this a few weeks and no one will care.
next-Jin
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How many people give technical reviews on big box store pre builds? Seems to me he is doing your average day consumers a service that is not some random dude on YouTube who bought it for himself because it has RGB and a 3050 to game on.
next-Jin
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I give it a week or so tops, once the videos start flowing again you’ll only get a few posts a video mentioning it.
This apology will fix everything like it never happened. I listened to this and its filled with humor in itself. Prepare for Linus to go the way of Noah Katz.
What, exactly, makes you think they don’t like pre-builts? They’ve praised a few of them. What they don’t like is shoddy build quality, bad pricing, and bad practices from AIBs. Just because they have higher standards doesn’t automatically mean they hate everything it just means when something actually gets praised there’s a good chance it’s a quality product. It seems like you’ve never watched the videos and are instead basing your opinion solely on what you’ve pre-decided must be the case regardless of all else.
He was hyperbolic but kind of right in some points.
july 2022:
https://www.techspot.com/article/2504-gpu-pricing-update/
april 2023 (no stock from 3080 to 3090 and rebate not that impressive down the stack):
https://www.techspot.com/article/2667-gpu-pricing-update/
4000 series ended up not being a good buy and Ampere price went up a lot instead of down.
https://www.techspot.com/article/2647-gpu-pricing-update/
Waiting a whole year and the 3070 went down by $30, the 3060TI by $50, the price crash never occurred. It does not mean he has a special deal more than all the public one we know he has with them, because hot take have incentive for himself to do.
Consumer reports will only test item bought through regular retail channel, I am not sure many youtube tester do it all the time, anything that get released on launch obviously was not and with the tech industry standard that you keep what you get to review how many of them get out of their way to buy of the rack CPUs, GPUs to test them and do a refresh month after launch if they already have free sample on hands ? For something like a pre-built they will have more the reflex, a good "binned" versus a bad one seeming less fair game than for a cpu.
Der8aur made the test, simply buying and testing 13 different 7600 CPU:
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGbW7orZS-A&t=116s
The amount of difference when they are not locked can be much bigger between 2 different 7600 than between the average 7600 and its average competition (specially things like performance per watt metric, we can speak about +40 between the worst of the 13th compared to the best one), making a lot of reviews made on a single one comparing them to say a single 13600k maybe needing an asterix, specially if it was one CPU AMD-intel sent to you.
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He even buy them for the editing computer for themselves from time to time, from Pudget, etc.... to save time.
Sir Beregond
Gawd
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The other problem is if they can't catch obvious errors now, that's going to be even worse when its all automated and they don't know what they are looking at.
Again, I don't really follow LTT/LMG, not my style, but this whole Labs effort seems pretty counter to their brand. If you want to be more serious about what you are doing, then you need to take it more seriously in your effort. Not just, hey look we spent a bunch of $$$ but are still giving you crap data.
As someone who has water cooled for over a decade now, Jay pisses me off because he often just has bad info, and I get especially annoyed at any channel that does watercooling and doesn't ever take the time to show how you clean/prep a loop while calling themselves "expert". Jay and LTT just take stuff out of boxes and puts it together and now you got all these newbie watercoolors who do the same thing and then wonder why their loop is a mess in 6 months.
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What's more crazy about the Labs thing is that they are not even focusing on one area first - which is part of the whole theme of GN's criticism - massive continous expansion with disregard to quality. They are trying to setup automated testing for a whole bunch of different kinds of technologies all at once, with no on-hand experts in any of those areas to begin. Compare that to Gamer's Nexus which bought a 60k industry fan testing machine. They won't start using it for publicized fan data and reviews until they have fully learned it and have a methodology that they are confident is and will continue to give quality results. They are already one of the YouTube channels most familiar with thermals, and yet even with semi-experts on-hand focusing on preparing a single new area of tech testing, it's been 20 months and they still haven't started using the machine for anything publicized. At this point I am even wondering if they gave up lol. But whether they have given up or not, either way is better than putting out bad results in a rush.
TheSlySyl
2[H]4U
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If the end result of this is somehow Gamers Nexus becoming part of LMG, i'm gonna laugh.
"Steve and I talked, and Steve is now in charge of the labs".
"Steve and I talked, and Steve is now in charge of the labs".
stryder2720
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Chevy Chevette Heater Core Gang, let's gooooooo!
Jay and LTT are on the same level when it comes to the people they want to cater to. They don't make content for people who want to be experts or know the nitty gritty details. they are like beginner mode sources and for entertainment. nothing wrong with that approach for the vast majority of people who would find their content. GN is the opposite of them and they don't cater to the Jay/LTT crowd. They are for a very niche audience.
It goes 2 ways, specially if the platform is open like they plan you will average users scores that will automatically flag difference.
A script that set game setting 100% of the time automatically before running the test in some ways make less of some human errors, in other way make some error an human would not, a game updated changed the .xml of the settings or something.
That kind of automation will still have an human doing the first batch to validate it, just not the 1080-1440p-4k- FSR/Dlss on/off, Rt on/Off, Frame generation on/off, ultra setting/high setting, high end CPU-ram, mid end CPU-RAM, low end CPU-ram, HDR on/off, SAM on/off variation for 60 games specially those without an included benchmark, it open the door to do what no one do right now I think, seeing less of the exact same game review after review. It is getting really complicated (the list of scenario above are 34,560 different benchmark run to do, imagine wanting to test 12 different skus, that 500 thousands, you obviously look at HDR-sam on/off only a single resolution to see if there any effect and reduce a lot, but it is getting more and more complicated).
Let alone judging image quality between model, you can run a native benchmark that look good with someone judging it and then score its difference via a system like that.
Long after launch, Hardware Unboxed make nice 40+ games one, but cannot take time to test them with different CPUs (what if the Radeon worked better with the AMD cpu than Intel for some smart access memory), test often build nice power ranking of GPUs, but for a buyer with a 1060 6gb knowing what a 3060 vs a 6700xt do on a 13900K with 7200 DDR5 is not all that they want to know, if they wonder is upgrading my gpu worth it if I have an overclocked 8600k.
GN's focus on accuracy and truth is at the root of everything they do, that obsession is a product of Steves inner being and so the channels philosophy has emerged organically from that starting point, and it permeates every task they approach. It IS Gamers Nexus, that's the brand, that's why they were able to call out a massive channel with complete fearlessness, because the internet understood that here is a person who is concerned only with reality and facts.
This is what I meant when I said LTT uses the lab as a mask, as a screen of authenticity behind which they can continue the lazy money grubbing, but it will never work because there's an actual authentic version of that which they are attempting to mimic out there in the world, paying attention and giving voice to those who see through the fraud.
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Do Ltt lab result much out yet ? It seem to be mostly taking a lot of time, lab website is not even public yet.
A more likely outcome is Steve buying the labs during the bankruptcy sale.
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I will permanently ban anyone that turns this into personal attacks and trolling. Stay on topic and learn to evaluate your thoughts before you click the reply button.
Right. Not to pick on CyberpowerPC, but just to use them as an example, they've done stuff like use a cheap cpu fan that runs at 100% all the time instead of the stock AM4 coolers. Another thing a lot of them do--including especially the big ones like Dell and HP--is the use of a single stick of RAM, when two sticks of half the size would cost close to exactly the same, but would yield improved performance on iGPUs and, especially, Ryzen systems.
Dell, in particular, is so cheap that they cut corners that actually steal performance from their own builds for no good reason, or at least none they've ever articulated.
True. Steve from GN goes out of his way to mention he does it, btw. And LTT has done so from time to time, but I don't think it's the default for them.
SeymourGore
Supreme [H]ardness
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You know, I scoffed at this suggestion, but I bet LMG would love to have Gamers Nexus under their umbrella, and I could see Steve accepting it if the contract secured autonomy along with all the added resources LTT would bring. If done correctly, it'd give LMG that 'serious' content and instant street cred by having Steve run their testing.
Luke face reaction should be a beacon for LTT decision-making.
Craft computing was in a good region imo about most of it:
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36G9Opdj3O8
Craft computing was in a good region imo about most of it:
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36G9Opdj3O8
Dunno. The most optimistic scenario I can imagine is GN Steve having Linus Labs loaded piece by piece into an 18' semi trailer, stick on the gas pedal, and sailing it off a cliff.
Alas, the only known case of someone successfully negotiating a forgiveness settlement with Steve was through an unconditional surrender of all action figures, including a sealed 1977 Double Telescoping Darth Vader.
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Absalom
[H]ard|Gawd
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Which is why you publish those automated settings on a public website for anyone to review. It's called transparency.