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While waiting, is it possible to create one with same layout just like M1 but extend the size to matx board? Full atx power supply in the front top..instead of 2 pcie slots, make it 5. Same brackets on the side, same width, just taller and longer??
You mean this?
At this point I am leaning towards the latest mATX concept, as shown above.
While waiting, is it possible to create one with same layout just like M1 but extend the size to matx board? Full atx power supply in the front top..instead of 2 pcie slots, make it 5. Same brackets on the side, same width, just taller and longer??
I've addressed this in my design post (at the end). But look, this is the latest concept vs. a "mATX M1" with an ATX PSU:And remove the 3.5 HDD brackets, and do M1 style of mounting (limited yes, but this is SFF.) In all honesty, I just feel the current designs are too big.
I've addressed this in my design post (at the end). But look, this is the latest concept vs. a "mATX M1" with an ATX PSU:
It's less tall, but deeper, and really not much smaller, while compromising on a bunch of different things (airflow, ease of access, space for drives or watercooling, vents on every side, window option). Is that really what you want?
Did you see this design? It's basically what you're asking for in terms of layout, just flipped upside-down because of my aversion to having the PSU open to the top. One of the downsides is that you wouldn't be able to fit a full custom water loop capable of adequately cooling a maxed-out mATX rig (SLI etc.), and in that regard its capability doesn't match what you'd expect from a scaled up M1. Dual 240 rads (or a 280+120) is about the minimum, but to support that the dimensions need to increase somewhat. This is what I imagine a fully watercooling-capable version of this layout to look like:I missed that post. XD I'm glad a lot of people are like me asking for the extended M1. I see that ATX PSU is on its side. Would it be possible to rotate it? Might save a few mm.
Well, I know it's easy for me to say since I definitely dont SLI or crossfire, I only use a sound card. If I use radiator, I could still mount it on the bottom. I still vote for the extended M1 layout. The 1 fan can take in air for GPU and side vent takes in air for CPU. I know it's not optimal for dust filtering, but people love their M1. Thanks for the info, Necere.
Did you see this design? It's basically what you're asking for in terms of layout, just flipped upside-down because of my aversion to having the PSU open to the top. One of the downsides is that you wouldn't be able to fit a full custom water loop capable of adequately cooling a maxed-out mATX rig (SLI etc.), and in that regard its capability doesn't match what you'd expect from a scaled up M1. Dual 240 rads (or a 280+120) is about the minimum, but to support that the dimensions need to increase somewhat. This is what I imagine a fully watercooling-capable version of this layout to look like:
But you can see at this point we're basically back to the same dimensions as the other concept, and that's just a simpler and all around better design, for all of the reasons I've already gone over.
So dropping the top rad support only frees up 15mm (the other 10mm were added to the bottom to allow clearance for a bottom rad), but does allow us to reduce the depth by 30mm:How about put the top radiator on the side bracket, leave just room for the fans if someone wants to air cool? It reduces 30mm on the height. If width allows, might be able to pull in PSU towards MB a bit to save space. Also remove the front small 120x30 radiator, it saves another 30mm. Or make it a trade off, atx psu isnt an option with 240mm radiator on the side bracket to keep length and width to minimum.
I think for this layout at this size it actually makes more sense to move the motherboard down to allow for a top-mounted rad, at the expense of a bottom-mounted rad with full thickness fans not clearing the 3rd slot. A bottom rad with slim fans could still clear the slot though, so SLI cards with full cover blocks would give you a situation very similar to bottom rads in the M1. Also, this way would let you have SLI air-cooled cards along with a top rad.
I think for this layout at this size it actually makes more sense to move the motherboard down to allow for a top-mounted rad, at the expense of a bottom-mounted rad with full thickness fans not clearing the 3rd slot. A bottom rad with slim fans could still clear the slot though, so SLI cards with full cover blocks would give you a situation very similar to bottom rads in the M1. Also, this way would let you have SLI air-cooled cards along with a top rad.
I tend to agree on the sealed top. I did some more work on this layout and it just doesn't seem worth the trade offs to me - limiting e.g. top rad + ATX PSU support to save a few mm does not seem worth it, but then it's within a stone's throw of the previous "latest" concept. It's the difference between a 22-24L case with a bunch of annoying limitations that really restrict what you can do, or a 30L case without those limitations. It seems to me you either go all in and cut ATX PSU support at the front entirely (like the Cerberus), or accept that it's not going to be (near) SFF.I for one would really prefer to have the top sealed, and keep intakes to either front and bottom.
mATX will always have some tradeoffs. Anf its possible to have 240/80 on the front, and 120 in the back, then that would be more than enough.
Not at this point. It really depends on some things that are going on behind the scenes.Either one looks good to me. Do you have any timeline or expected date for this project? Im itchy to upgrade
PSU on the bottom has a few advantages:Hi guys,
New in this thread but i just want to share my opinion.
I think the best design is the one with pe PSU in fron or top of the case, every single damm case has the PSU at the bottom.
Aka this ones:
Best space-saving and good looking imo
I know you do. But again, this design probably isn't viable, unfortunately, since the hoop-feet aren't likely to provide the needed strength to support the weight of a fully-loaded build. Increasing the exterior shell to 3 or 4mm aluminum might work, but then cost becomes an issue. Also, we couldn't punch the top ventilation holes in thicker aluminum.I get fuzzy warm feelings when I see that second-to-last image every single time. Also this one gets me tingly.
This isn't necessary if the case is sufficiently wide (200mm+), as there's sufficient clearance for the motherboard next to an ATX PSU. Refer back to my earlier post on this. You'd only have to step down to SFX if the case were narrower (i.e., supporting a rear 92mm fan/~135mm tall CPU coolers only).BTW: ATX support and a bottom PSU might be possible with an SFX-L PSU and a custom ATX to SFX bracket, like this one but offset to the right.
I know you do. But again, this design probably isn't viable, unfortunately, since the hoop-feet aren't likely to provide the needed strength to support the weight of a fully-loaded build. Increasing the exterior shell to 3 or 4mm aluminum might work, but then cost becomes an issue. Also, we couldn't punch the top ventilation holes in thicker aluminum.
5 - You could probably design the case with two different top panels. A lower solid panel for aircooling setups (with three fans), and a higher perforated top panel that can hold a radiator.
The cost is ofcourse an issue, but for a unique high-end case I wouldn't mind 300$, but I'm not sure what price you are expecting it to be with going for 3mm for the outside panels.
So dropping the top rad support only frees up 15mm (the other 10mm were added to the bottom to allow clearance for a bottom rad), but does allow us to reduce the depth by 30mm:
Keep in mind though, this doesn't allow for a 240mm rad on the top or the side, since 240 rads are between 275-285mm you need at least 290mm between the PSU and the back of the case, whereas this leaves only 260mm. Switching the PSU out for an SFX would free up the needed space, however:
I think the extra 15mm to height would be worth it here for a top mounted rad, since the height is dictated by the PSU and it leaves a lot of empty space at the top otherwise, and it would allow for a windowed W/C setup and frees up some room at the front to deal with the PSU cables (it would be fairly tight there, as you can see).
I have to say though, with the rad mounted offset so far to the rear like that, it doesn't lend itself to a good looking vent configuration on the outer panels.
Hi guys,
New in this thread but i just want to share my opinion.
I think the best design is the one with pe PSU in fron or top of the case, every single damm case has the PSU at the bottom.
Aka this ones:
Best space-saving and good looking imo
I had the same struggle - but in the end I just couldn't justify the cost.I struggle with myself if I should support the Cerberus case, which is at Kickstarter at the moment. It does meet almost all of my requirements. But hell is it expensive if you add shipping cost and import fees. And this is not even the core of my concern. I would happily spend the money if it would meet 100% of my requirements. Im fine with the inside layout,but the exterior does not exactly feel sexy. And I prefer aluminum over steel. I mean it is still better than any of the other mATX cases that are available today, I am just not comfortable with black or white painted steel.
I had the same struggle - but in the end I just couldn't justify the cost.
It extremely similar to the M1 except for the IO and and finish, and like you - painted steel? Sorry, but it's not exactly exclusive like the M1. I know it's powder coated and insanely durable, but I'm not planning og manhandling my case anyways.
I can almost get a second ultrawide screen for the same cost (500$).
If we were to go with a layout with a front mounted PSU, the top panel would need to be ventilated. We could potentially offer a solid top panel as an option though, which comes at the cost of top fan/rad support.The only thing I'm really crossing my fingers for, is a solid top panel. It's way to easy to spill drinks and so on, and the noise leakage from a top panel is insane.
Cost is a concern for us as well. The M1 is already not exactly cheap, and an mATX case is going to be at least twice the size, so we have a real concern of having something that's priced too high to be viable. Reducing cost is something we've been working on, but it's still too early to say anything definitive on that.I struggle with myself if I should support the Cerberus case, which is at Kickstarter at the moment. It does meet almost all of my requirements. But hell is it expensive if you add shipping cost and import fees.
I do read all the feedback, even if I don't respond to everything. It does help to clarify things, and sometimes spurs me to revisit or reconsider certain ideas. So your comments are helpful, even if ultimately I don't design things exactly the way you might want me to. Between manufacturing feasibility and varying use cases, I have to keep in mind a broad set of considerations. This subforum, focused on SFF as it is, will tend to skew one way, and under represent people with different priorities (e.g., watercooling/show builds, low noise, etc).Necere, is there anything I can contribute to help you make progress?
I'd hate to think I've cost them some support. It's worth pointing out that they're much further along, with a finished product that's ready to go, whereas we're not even settled on a basic layout yet. It's going to be some time until we have something even close to a finished product.I was interested in Cerberus as well, when it was originally the NOVA, and was in for 2 cases. Didn't really like the minor changes that were made and after seeing the possibilities of a future Ncase I decided to pass on the Cerberus.
Those are two quite different designs pictured in the quoted post, are you referring to the "half Mac," or the more conventional one with the PSU on top?I absolutely adore that case look. It's absolutely my favourite one and I'd sell my NCase and all my investment in mITX in a heartbeat to get my hands on something like that.
$250 + $120 shipping outside the US, + customs on the total. So for some people it will be well north of $400. James and Josh have said they're looking into lowering shipping costs, but the savings likely won't be major. Shipping inside the US is reasonable ($32), at least.I haven't seen the Cerberus case myself. Is it a [H] native case design? It honestly looks pretty great. And isn't the price $250, not $500?
I'd hate to think I've cost them some support. It's worth pointing out that they're much further along, with a finished product that's ready to go, whereas we're not even settled on a basic layout yet. It's going to be some time until we have something even close to a finished product.
I'm curious which changes you didn't like from the Nova to the Cerberus?
If we were to go with a layout with a front mounted PSU, the top panel would need to be ventilated. We could potentially offer a solid top panel as an option though, which comes at the cost of top fan/rad support.
Those are two quite different designs pictured in the quoted post, are you referring to the "half Mac," or the more conventional one with the PSU on top?
$250 + $120 shipping outside the US, + customs on the total. So for some people it will be well north of $400. James and Josh have said they're looking into lowering shipping costs, but the savings likely won't be major. Shipping inside the US is reasonable ($32), at least.
Now, that you bring it up. This is something, that bothers me too.I feel the same way about the front I/O. The ports don't line up. The audio jacks look kind of cheap and are a different shade from the power button.
To buy the M1 was a no-brainer. Sure, it is not cheap, but it is exactly what I wanted back in the days. Even today, there is nothing I would like to change. I can fit everything inside it besides a second GPU. Even this would be possible with short GPUs. And shipping costs were reasonable. I thought I would use the M1 for a long time, so the price would spread over the years. Then I got my monitor and realized, that a single GPU is not enough, but that's another storyCost is a concern for us as well. The M1 is already not exactly cheap
I just can speak of myself, but as mentioned above, just because the maker of the M1 is thinking loud about a mATX case is not the reason why I might pass the Cerberus (and I am still undecided by the way).I'd hate to think I've cost them some support. It's worth pointing out that they're much further along, with a finished product that's ready to go
Cerberus' water-cooling options are not more limited than the M1s. Necere might correct me, but I can't think of a way how two GPUs and two 240mm radiators will fit in the M1. One GPU and two 240mm rads do work. And two GPUs and one 240mm rad also do work with the possibility of another 120mm rad, if the GPUs are short enough. But I didn't try that yet.I was thinking of going SLI but the watercooling options also seemed limited and I feel like I can do more with
my NCase and Dual 240mm rads.