Before asking NCASE about Micro-ATX...

Thanks for addressing my concerns, Necere. I'll be waiting for the finalized version :D
 
Make a "Lie down" Version of my FT03 Idea and have the 90° Orientation as an User-Mod. :D
 
While waiting, is it possible to create one with same layout just like M1 but extend the size to matx board? Full atx power supply in the front top..instead of 2 pcie slots, make it 5. Same brackets on the side, same width, just taller and longer??
 
And remove the 3.5 HDD brackets, and do M1 style of mounting (limited yes, but this is SFF.) In all honesty, I just feel the current designs are too big.
 
While waiting, is it possible to create one with same layout just like M1 but extend the size to matx board? Full atx power supply in the front top..instead of 2 pcie slots, make it 5. Same brackets on the side, same width, just taller and longer??

You mean this?

hQ1y95d.jpg
 
Not to hi-jack the topic, but that's the prototype for the Nova design, it's been tweaked and is now called Cerberus, by Kimera Industries.
 
You mean this?

Nova/Cerberus in a way, but that particular design forces me to use side bracket for full ATX PSU. I prefer using air cooling on my CPU. If it was longer, I could mount the ATX psu in the front where his sff psu is. It'd make me very happy. I also prefer lian-li's aluminum than steel enclosure. I just wish a matx version of M1.
 
At this point I am leaning towards the latest mATX concept, as shown above.

This makes me happy.
I also love the fact that you are taking acoustics in to the equation.

I feel way to many cases are way to vented now a days.

Not that long ago, Luke from linustechtips did a test where he tested how much of a difference the amount of fans and their placement, and it was pretty clear that more fans in more places, did not necessarily mean much lower temps.
 
While waiting, is it possible to create one with same layout just like M1 but extend the size to matx board? Full atx power supply in the front top..instead of 2 pcie slots, make it 5. Same brackets on the side, same width, just taller and longer??

And remove the 3.5 HDD brackets, and do M1 style of mounting (limited yes, but this is SFF.) In all honesty, I just feel the current designs are too big.
I've addressed this in my design post (at the end). But look, this is the latest concept vs. a "mATX M1" with an ATX PSU:

0axpGko.png


It's less tall, but deeper, and really not much smaller, while compromising on a bunch of different things (airflow, ease of access, space for drives or watercooling, vents on every side, window option). Is that really what you want?
 
I've addressed this in my design post (at the end). But look, this is the latest concept vs. a "mATX M1" with an ATX PSU:


It's less tall, but deeper, and really not much smaller, while compromising on a bunch of different things (airflow, ease of access, space for drives or watercooling, vents on every side, window option). Is that really what you want?

I missed that post. XD I'm glad a lot of people are like me asking for the extended M1. I see that ATX PSU is on its side. Would it be possible to rotate it? Might save a few mm.
Well, I know it's easy for me to say since I definitely dont SLI or crossfire, I only use a sound card. If I use radiator, I could still mount it on the bottom. I still vote for the extended M1 layout. The 1 fan can take in air for GPU and side vent takes in air for CPU. I know it's not optimal for dust filtering, but people love their M1. Thanks for the info, Necere.
 
I missed that post. XD I'm glad a lot of people are like me asking for the extended M1. I see that ATX PSU is on its side. Would it be possible to rotate it? Might save a few mm.
Well, I know it's easy for me to say since I definitely dont SLI or crossfire, I only use a sound card. If I use radiator, I could still mount it on the bottom. I still vote for the extended M1 layout. The 1 fan can take in air for GPU and side vent takes in air for CPU. I know it's not optimal for dust filtering, but people love their M1. Thanks for the info, Necere.
Did you see this design? It's basically what you're asking for in terms of layout, just flipped upside-down because of my aversion to having the PSU open to the top. One of the downsides is that you wouldn't be able to fit a full custom water loop capable of adequately cooling a maxed-out mATX rig (SLI etc.), and in that regard its capability doesn't match what you'd expect from a scaled up M1. Dual 240 rads (or a 280+120) is about the minimum, but to support that the dimensions need to increase somewhat. This is what I imagine a fully watercooling-capable version of this layout to look like:

wtSOENE.png


But you can see at this point we're basically back to the same dimensions as the other concept, and that's just a simpler and all around better design, for all of the reasons I've already gone over.
 
Did you see this design? It's basically what you're asking for in terms of layout, just flipped upside-down because of my aversion to having the PSU open to the top. One of the downsides is that you wouldn't be able to fit a full custom water loop capable of adequately cooling a maxed-out mATX rig (SLI etc.), and in that regard its capability doesn't match what you'd expect from a scaled up M1. Dual 240 rads (or a 280+120) is about the minimum, but to support that the dimensions need to increase somewhat. This is what I imagine a fully watercooling-capable version of this layout to look like:

But you can see at this point we're basically back to the same dimensions as the other concept, and that's just a simpler and all around better design, for all of the reasons I've already gone over.

How about put the top radiator on the side bracket, leave just room for the fans if someone wants to air cool? It reduces 30mm on the height. If width allows, might be able to pull in PSU towards MB a bit to save space. Also remove the front small 120x30 radiator, it saves another 30mm. Or make it a trade off, atx psu isnt an option with 240mm radiator on the side bracket to keep length and width to minimum.

I think in order to keep a SFF, trade offs are expected. If someone wants to use all liquid cooling, the trade off would be limit the CPU to 1 fan AIO so there's space to mount SSD or HDD on one of the side bracket.
 
How about put the top radiator on the side bracket, leave just room for the fans if someone wants to air cool? It reduces 30mm on the height. If width allows, might be able to pull in PSU towards MB a bit to save space. Also remove the front small 120x30 radiator, it saves another 30mm. Or make it a trade off, atx psu isnt an option with 240mm radiator on the side bracket to keep length and width to minimum.
So dropping the top rad support only frees up 15mm (the other 10mm were added to the bottom to allow clearance for a bottom rad), but does allow us to reduce the depth by 30mm:

V1yvl6d.png


Keep in mind though, this doesn't allow for a 240mm rad on the top or the side, since 240 rads are between 275-285mm you need at least 290mm between the PSU and the back of the case, whereas this leaves only 260mm. Switching the PSU out for an SFX would free up the needed space, however:

F7irHbq.png


I think the extra 15mm to height would be worth it here for a top mounted rad, since the height is dictated by the PSU and it leaves a lot of empty space at the top otherwise, and it would allow for a windowed W/C setup and frees up some room at the front to deal with the PSU cables (it would be fairly tight there, as you can see).

I have to say though, with the rad mounted offset so far to the rear like that, it doesn't lend itself to a good looking vent configuration on the outer panels.
 
BTW, to put things in perspective, the latest mATX concept is still smaller than something like the Phanteks Evolv ITX, and has just as much watercooling capability while supporting mATX motherboards.
 
The first one with dimension 370mm x 335 mm is perfect for me and worth the upgrade (assuming the width is less than 210mm) from my lian li v354. Your latest design has dimensions (HxWxD): 380 x 200 x 400mm. My lain li v354 is (HxWxD) 320 x 245 x 420 and happily air cooled. V354 can hold 5.25 external drive (although rarely used..i still love to keep a plextor drive there) plus plenty space for HDD and SSD without restriction on PSU. There's no incentive for me to use it over v354. I do agree that v354 is not made for liquid cooling (doable but not optimal.) Phanteks Evolv ITX is gigantic and I dont even think it's SSF. That's why M1 is far more attractive compared to it.

As I mentioned above, it comes with trade off. Corsair single AIO can still be used with the first pic on post #453. Anyway, I see the one I want, I'm just gonna wait to see the final version. Thanks, Necere.
 
I think for this layout at this size it actually makes more sense to move the motherboard down to allow for a top-mounted rad, at the expense of a bottom-mounted rad with full thickness fans not clearing the 3rd slot. A bottom rad with slim fans could still clear the slot though, so SLI cards with full cover blocks would give you a situation very similar to bottom rads in the M1. Also, this way would let you have SLI air-cooled cards along with a top rad.

wnJGvk5.png
 
I think for this layout at this size it actually makes more sense to move the motherboard down to allow for a top-mounted rad, at the expense of a bottom-mounted rad with full thickness fans not clearing the 3rd slot. A bottom rad with slim fans could still clear the slot though, so SLI cards with full cover blocks would give you a situation very similar to bottom rads in the M1. Also, this way would let you have SLI air-cooled cards along with a top rad.

wnJGvk5.png

I for one would really prefer to have the top sealed, and keep intakes to either front and bottom.

mATX will always have some tradeoffs. Anf its possible to have 240/80 on the front, and 120 in the back, then that would be more than enough.
 
I think for this layout at this size it actually makes more sense to move the motherboard down to allow for a top-mounted rad, at the expense of a bottom-mounted rad with full thickness fans not clearing the 3rd slot. A bottom rad with slim fans could still clear the slot though, so SLI cards with full cover blocks would give you a situation very similar to bottom rads in the M1. Also, this way would let you have SLI air-cooled cards along with a top rad.

Either one looks good to me. Do you have any timeline or expected date for this project? Im itchy to upgrade :D
 
I for one would really prefer to have the top sealed, and keep intakes to either front and bottom.

mATX will always have some tradeoffs. Anf its possible to have 240/80 on the front, and 120 in the back, then that would be more than enough.
I tend to agree on the sealed top. I did some more work on this layout and it just doesn't seem worth the trade offs to me - limiting e.g. top rad + ATX PSU support to save a few mm does not seem worth it, but then it's within a stone's throw of the previous "latest" concept. It's the difference between a 22-24L case with a bunch of annoying limitations that really restrict what you can do, or a 30L case without those limitations. It seems to me you either go all in and cut ATX PSU support at the front entirely (like the Cerberus), or accept that it's not going to be (near) SFF.

Either one looks good to me. Do you have any timeline or expected date for this project? Im itchy to upgrade :D
Not at this point. It really depends on some things that are going on behind the scenes.
 
Hi guys,
New in this thread but i just want to share my opinion.
I think the best design is the one with pe PSU in fron or top of the case, every single damm case has the PSU at the bottom.
Aka this ones:
qnich8a.jpg

X35JsIQ.jpg

Best space-saving and good looking imo :)
 
Hi guys,
New in this thread but i just want to share my opinion.
I think the best design is the one with pe PSU in fron or top of the case, every single damm case has the PSU at the bottom.
Aka this ones:
qnich8a.jpg

X35JsIQ.jpg

Best space-saving and good looking imo :)
PSU on the bottom has a few advantages:
  • Cooler air intake
  • Better weight distribution
  • Allows for ATX motherboard support, as discussed earlier in the thread
Nevertheless, I agree that these concepts at least look nice.
 
I get fuzzy warm feelings when I see that second-to-last image every single time. Also this one gets me tingly.

BTW: ATX support and a bottom PSU might be possible with an SFX-L PSU and a custom ATX to SFX bracket, like this one but offset to the right.

Considering Silverstone's 700W 80+Platinum which on it's own is still plenty for dual-GPU builds, it could very well go up to 850W (unconfirmed, untested, unsupported).

So mATX board with ATX PSU support or ATX with SFX(-L) support. If the 700W Silverstone SFX-L unit and Corsair 650W SFX unit are home-runs, the reasons for an ATX PSU would diminish quickly. Especially considering the Silverstone is a 700W 80+Platinum (reduced heat output at top-end) and basically built as an 850W 80+Gold PSU.
 
I get fuzzy warm feelings when I see that second-to-last image every single time. Also this one gets me tingly.
I know you do. But again, this design probably isn't viable, unfortunately, since the hoop-feet aren't likely to provide the needed strength to support the weight of a fully-loaded build. Increasing the exterior shell to 3 or 4mm aluminum might work, but then cost becomes an issue. Also, we couldn't punch the top ventilation holes in thicker aluminum.

BTW: ATX support and a bottom PSU might be possible with an SFX-L PSU and a custom ATX to SFX bracket, like this one but offset to the right.
This isn't necessary if the case is sufficiently wide (200mm+), as there's sufficient clearance for the motherboard next to an ATX PSU. Refer back to my earlier post on this. You'd only have to step down to SFX if the case were narrower (i.e., supporting a rear 92mm fan/~135mm tall CPU coolers only).
 
Ah yes, I got the ATX board + ATX PSU support mixed up over a previous post, it was my mistake.

Even though the "MacPro Redux" is out of the question, it's still a very nice design. To address your individual concerns raised, not everything needs to be 3mm thick, the perforated panels on the MacPro and PowerMac G5 are thinner, what I can measure 1,6mm. And they even did large radius bends on those. While that design wouldn't work by doing the top-panel in half the thickness, maybe a different approach to the top panel's design could solve that issue.

My PowerMac G5 case has 3mm thick external panels and feet, those are very sturdy. Mine is loaded with six 3,5" HDDs weighing a lot, with an ATX PSU, Scythe Mugen 2 heatsink, four fans and some more: structural integrity is not a problem.

The cost is ofcourse an issue, but for a unique high-end case I wouldn't mind 300$, but I'm not sure what price you are expecting it to be with going for 3mm for the outside panels.

Mind you, I'm not expecting you to go forth with this design, I think the other one I linked is more realistic and has more universal appeal.
 
I know you do. But again, this design probably isn't viable, unfortunately, since the hoop-feet aren't likely to provide the needed strength to support the weight of a fully-loaded build. Increasing the exterior shell to 3 or 4mm aluminum might work, but then cost becomes an issue. Also, we couldn't punch the top ventilation holes in thicker aluminum.

Maybe turn that Mac G5 design into an ITX-case with a mostly standard layout. 160mm ATX-PSU in the bottom, hard drives in horizontal trays next to the mainboard and above the GPU, drop the ODD and add two fans behind a perforated front panel. Yes, that would be the second ITX-case under the Ncase label, but I think it would be different enough from the M1 to give it a thought. And I think that an ITX-version of that design would open some interesting options and considerations:

1 - Hoepfully the weight of the entire build will be low enough to make it work with 2mm Aluminium.

2 - mATX isn't very popular. There are maybe two really interesting mATX Skylake-boards for gamers and powerusers (and I for one don't like them both). Add one or two interesting 2011-3 mATX-boards. That's not a big market for an expensive mATX-case.

3 - Due to the actually not very attractive dimensions of the form-factor there aren't that man possible SFF-designs for an mATX-case, and the industry has most of them covered. Jonsbo aka Rosewill aka Cooltek are now releasing a new full alumnium mATX-case that does most of what the favorite designs in this thread do - with tempered glass for a competetive price.

4 - ITX and ATX seem to be the way to go. So maybe bury the idea of an mATX SFF-case and either build that fantastic almost-SFF aircooling optimized ATX-design, or an ITX-version of that Mac design. Yes, there are many other case that use the same layout, but they all of have one major flaw: They are not space efficient because every manufacturer feels the need to add compatibility for at least two radiators.

5 - You could probably design the case with two different top panels. A lower solid panel for aircooling setups (with three fans), and a higher perforated top panel that can hold a radiator.

6 - Sure, another ITX-case. But the layout would be different from the M1 and offer more for people who like to see their hardware (through a window) and offer a little more room and hardware options.
 
5 - You could probably design the case with two different top panels. A lower solid panel for aircooling setups (with three fans), and a higher perforated top panel that can hold a radiator.

This is an interesting idea; however, it would probably be more practical to have two designs of the same case aesthetic (one taller with room to fit a top rad and one smaller version without) vs one with interchangeable parts. Example...EVGA's Hardon Air vs Hydro. They are the same case with the Hydro being 45mm taller to allow a top mounted radiator.
 


Put these two together and I'll be the happiest person in the world :)

I have an M1 today, packed with a Titan X and 2x 240 radiators. Because of my monitor having a resolution of 3440x1440, this GPU, which is overclocked to the max by the way, is not sufficient to drive the monitor with 60 fps in games like Witcher 3 with high details (and fancy hair simulation of cause). That's why I am looking for a mATX case - to go SLI. Because of 700W SFX-L PSUs on its way, new GPUs on its way, where two of the not-so-top-end GPUs will outperform the Titan X easily, I am totally sold on the 2b layout. I like the compactness of the M1 and all it is missing is the height for the PCI-E slot and of cause the length due to the mATX form factor.

So 2b internal + adapted Mac external is my favored combination.

Because then I don't have to fiddle around with PCI-E splitters and bifurcation and custom BIOS and short GPUs to have space for a thick 120 rad in the bottom of the M1. Which are too many possible failure points for my taste.
 
The cost is ofcourse an issue, but for a unique high-end case I wouldn't mind 300$, but I'm not sure what price you are expecting it to be with going for 3mm for the outside panels.

Even though you don't mind paying 300$, theres lots of people that do.

If we take the Cerberus as an example;
This case is 250$ w/o shipping and tax. Thats a lot of money, and most people don't want to spend that amount on a case. A few are willing, but to make a successful product you need more than a few.

If you look at forum/reddit posts about it, theres tons of complaints that it's too expensive.

One of the advantages that Ncase has, is that they chose to work with Lian Li to make the M1 more affordable (both with production and shipping) and that payed off. It's nice that the cerberus is made in the us and so on, but who cares when people can't afford it.


The only thing I'm really crossing my fingers for, is a solid top panel. It's way to easy to spill drinks and so on, and the noise leakage from a top panel is insane.
 
So dropping the top rad support only frees up 15mm (the other 10mm were added to the bottom to allow clearance for a bottom rad), but does allow us to reduce the depth by 30mm:

V1yvl6d.png


Keep in mind though, this doesn't allow for a 240mm rad on the top or the side, since 240 rads are between 275-285mm you need at least 290mm between the PSU and the back of the case, whereas this leaves only 260mm. Switching the PSU out for an SFX would free up the needed space, however:

F7irHbq.png


I think the extra 15mm to height would be worth it here for a top mounted rad, since the height is dictated by the PSU and it leaves a lot of empty space at the top otherwise, and it would allow for a windowed W/C setup and frees up some room at the front to deal with the PSU cables (it would be fairly tight there, as you can see).

I have to say though, with the rad mounted offset so far to the rear like that, it doesn't lend itself to a good looking vent configuration on the outer panels.

I'm in 100% for a mATX Ncase. SFX or SFX-L support over ATX PSU would seal the deal.
 
I struggle with myself if I should support the Cerberus case, which is at Kickstarter at the moment. It does meet almost all of my requirements. But hell is it expensive if you add shipping cost and import fees. And this is not even the core of my concern. I would happily spend the money if it would meet 100% of my requirements. Im fine with the inside layout,but the exterior does not exactly feel sexy. And I prefer aluminum over steel. I mean it is still better than any of the other mATX cases that are available today, I am just not comfortable with black or white painted steel.

Since the Cerberus campaign might fail anyway - they are at 120 supporters and need 440 more, this project here will get even more important.
Necere, is there anything I can contribute to help you make progress?
 
I was interested in Cerberus as well, when it was originally the NOVA, and was in for 2 cases. Didn't really like the minor changes that were made and after seeing the possibilities of a future Ncase I decided to pass on the Cerberus. I'm an original owner of the 1st Version of the Ncase and haven't seen anything yet worthy of replacing it and don't plan on doing so.
 
Hi guys,
New in this thread but i just want to share my opinion.
I think the best design is the one with pe PSU in fron or top of the case, every single damm case has the PSU at the bottom.
Aka this ones:
qnich8a.jpg

X35JsIQ.jpg

Best space-saving and good looking imo :)

I absolutely adore that case look. It's absolutely my favourite one and I'd sell my NCase and all my investment in mITX in a heartbeat to get my hands on something like that.
 
I struggle with myself if I should support the Cerberus case, which is at Kickstarter at the moment. It does meet almost all of my requirements. But hell is it expensive if you add shipping cost and import fees. And this is not even the core of my concern. I would happily spend the money if it would meet 100% of my requirements. Im fine with the inside layout,but the exterior does not exactly feel sexy. And I prefer aluminum over steel. I mean it is still better than any of the other mATX cases that are available today, I am just not comfortable with black or white painted steel.
I had the same struggle - but in the end I just couldn't justify the cost.

It extremely similar to the M1 except for the IO and and finish, and like you - painted steel? Sorry, but it's not exactly exclusive like the M1. I know it's powder coated and insanely durable, but I'm not planning og manhandling my case anyways.

I can almost get a second ultrawide screen for the same cost (500$).
 
I had the same struggle - but in the end I just couldn't justify the cost.

It extremely similar to the M1 except for the IO and and finish, and like you - painted steel? Sorry, but it's not exactly exclusive like the M1. I know it's powder coated and insanely durable, but I'm not planning og manhandling my case anyways.

I can almost get a second ultrawide screen for the same cost (500$).

I haven't seen the Cerberus case myself. Is it a [H] native case design? It honestly looks pretty great. And isn't the price $250, not $500?
 
The only thing I'm really crossing my fingers for, is a solid top panel. It's way to easy to spill drinks and so on, and the noise leakage from a top panel is insane.
If we were to go with a layout with a front mounted PSU, the top panel would need to be ventilated. We could potentially offer a solid top panel as an option though, which comes at the cost of top fan/rad support.

I struggle with myself if I should support the Cerberus case, which is at Kickstarter at the moment. It does meet almost all of my requirements. But hell is it expensive if you add shipping cost and import fees.
Cost is a concern for us as well. The M1 is already not exactly cheap, and an mATX case is going to be at least twice the size, so we have a real concern of having something that's priced too high to be viable. Reducing cost is something we've been working on, but it's still too early to say anything definitive on that.

Necere, is there anything I can contribute to help you make progress?
I do read all the feedback, even if I don't respond to everything. It does help to clarify things, and sometimes spurs me to revisit or reconsider certain ideas. So your comments are helpful, even if ultimately I don't design things exactly the way you might want me to. Between manufacturing feasibility and varying use cases, I have to keep in mind a broad set of considerations. This subforum, focused on SFF as it is, will tend to skew one way, and under represent people with different priorities (e.g., watercooling/show builds, low noise, etc).

I was interested in Cerberus as well, when it was originally the NOVA, and was in for 2 cases. Didn't really like the minor changes that were made and after seeing the possibilities of a future Ncase I decided to pass on the Cerberus.
I'd hate to think I've cost them some support. It's worth pointing out that they're much further along, with a finished product that's ready to go, whereas we're not even settled on a basic layout yet. It's going to be some time until we have something even close to a finished product.

I'm curious which changes you didn't like from the Nova to the Cerberus?

I absolutely adore that case look. It's absolutely my favourite one and I'd sell my NCase and all my investment in mITX in a heartbeat to get my hands on something like that.
Those are two quite different designs pictured in the quoted post, are you referring to the "half Mac," or the more conventional one with the PSU on top?

I haven't seen the Cerberus case myself. Is it a [H] native case design? It honestly looks pretty great. And isn't the price $250, not $500?
$250 + $120 shipping outside the US, + customs on the total. So for some people it will be well north of $400. James and Josh have said they're looking into lowering shipping costs, but the savings likely won't be major. Shipping inside the US is reasonable ($32), at least.
 
I'd hate to think I've cost them some support. It's worth pointing out that they're much further along, with a finished product that's ready to go, whereas we're not even settled on a basic layout yet. It's going to be some time until we have something even close to a finished product.

I'm curious which changes you didn't like from the Nova to the Cerberus?

Well for one, I didn't like the placement of the power button, usb ports, etc on the top of the case. I know I'm being very picky about it but that's one thing i definitely do not like about it. Also, after seeing the final verison of it, the front panel really did not seem like it flowed with the case very well. I was thinking of going SLI but the watercooling options also seemed limited and I feel like I can do more with
my NCase and Dual 240mm rads. The swinging side bracket is a cool feature, but didn't want to be limited to a 120mm or 140mm on the side and have to squeeze in a 240mm on the bottom. I'm sticking to my Ncase for now as it fits the bill perfectly for what I need, it's just much more refined.
 
I feel the same way about the front I/O. The ports don't line up. The audio jacks look kind of cheap and are a different shade from the power button. One audio jack sticks out further than the other. The cutout for the USB ports are huge. I also don't remember seeing any discussion about the front I/O prior to the launch of the campaign like what we've seen with the M1, the LRPC, and the A4, so to me this came totally out of the blue.

For what it's worth though, I didn't even fill out the survey prior to the campaign and this thread is definitely part of the reason why. I know if I were to get another case after the M1 I'd prefer one with identical exterior finish. ATX motherboard support and simple front-to-back airflow are the two other things I would like that I know are outside the scope of the Cerberus.
 
If we were to go with a layout with a front mounted PSU, the top panel would need to be ventilated. We could potentially offer a solid top panel as an option though, which comes at the cost of top fan/rad support.

Those are two quite different designs pictured in the quoted post, are you referring to the "half Mac," or the more conventional one with the PSU on top?

$250 + $120 shipping outside the US, + customs on the total. So for some people it will be well north of $400. James and Josh have said they're looking into lowering shipping costs, but the savings likely won't be major. Shipping inside the US is reasonable ($32), at least.

Sorry, I didn't want to repost images. This one (http://i.imgur.com/X35JsIQ.jpg) is *probably* my favourite, but honestly both are sexy enough to sacrifice mITX for.

Fair enough on the prices. I had figured something like that.
 
I feel the same way about the front I/O. The ports don't line up. The audio jacks look kind of cheap and are a different shade from the power button.
Now, that you bring it up. This is something, that bothers me too.

Cost is a concern for us as well. The M1 is already not exactly cheap
To buy the M1 was a no-brainer. Sure, it is not cheap, but it is exactly what I wanted back in the days. Even today, there is nothing I would like to change. I can fit everything inside it besides a second GPU. Even this would be possible with short GPUs. And shipping costs were reasonable. I thought I would use the M1 for a long time, so the price would spread over the years. Then I got my monitor and realized, that a single GPU is not enough, but that's another story :)
With the Cerberus, there are some drawbacks with the exterior, like I and others explained. The shipping is twice as expensive as the M1's was (I'm in Germany). Which at least partly is of one's own doing, because they ship in a metal crate, if I got this right. This might add extra weight to the already heavy case for its size. Maybe aluminum case panels would have been lighter than the steel panels. Maybe they would be more expensive in production, but I would rather trade shipping cost for case price, if the exterior was made of aluminum. So, I think of replacing it before even purchasing it and as a interim solution it is too expensive. I can buy a Rajintek Styx or a Jonsbo UMX3 in the meantime for a fractional amount of money.

I'd hate to think I've cost them some support. It's worth pointing out that they're much further along, with a finished product that's ready to go
I just can speak of myself, but as mentioned above, just because the maker of the M1 is thinking loud about a mATX case is not the reason why I might pass the Cerberus (and I am still undecided by the way).
But who knows. If they miss the funding goal and not slap down, maybe they work on their product and come up with something that more people are willing to give money for.
 
I was thinking of going SLI but the watercooling options also seemed limited and I feel like I can do more with
my NCase and Dual 240mm rads.
Cerberus' water-cooling options are not more limited than the M1s. Necere might correct me, but I can't think of a way how two GPUs and two 240mm radiators will fit in the M1. One GPU and two 240mm rads do work. And two GPUs and one 240mm rad also do work with the possibility of another 120mm rad, if the GPUs are short enough. But I didn't try that yet.
 
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