Drakenfeng
Gawd
- Joined
- Apr 15, 2010
- Messages
- 671
![[H]ard|Forum](/styles/hardforum/xenforo/logo_dark.png){kind=logo}
Battlefield 4 **Official Discussion Thread**
- Thread starter CaptNumbNutz
- Start date
The update rate was one thing, but there were also clear bugs causing problems.
If a body moved a lot after dying, chances are it was going to desync. Having your corpse fall off something, get blown across a room, or go sliding down some stairs / hill probably more often than not would make it desynchronize. I loved trying to revive someone and it would either not work, or I'd magically get someone that appeared to be dead like 15 feet away from me instead. Other players would sometimes spaz out and they'd spin or be looking the wrong way in firefights. Rarely you'd catch someone sliding around in the crouch position or something for a few seconds. People just flat out being positioned incorrectly is not a very good thing.
But back to the tick rate - as for the update rate, at 10hz some weapons could fire faster than you actually sent data.
Take the FAMAS for example, it fires at 1000rpm, or 16.6666666667 rounds per second. If you update 10 times per second... everything faster than 600rpm can fall into this problem. My guess is that it manifests as "delay." Probably part of the reason why it could appear like you were taking multiple hits worth of damage at once or die later than expected in certain cases. Instead of getting hit with a stream of rounds that comes across as 1-1-1-1 DEAD, you may get 1-1-2. If you got hit in the noggin, it may look like you just died instantly, leaving you with literally no time to react at all. Plus, the game trusts the client more than other titles... and you can get some really obnoxious results when someone has high latency.
The 30hz isn't a Sony / MS limit, it's an engine decision. There may be bandwidth limits and other gotchas that they need to meet for certification that indirectly affect this, though. If bandwidth usage is too high, consoles may not see this update.
If a body moved a lot after dying, chances are it was going to desync. Having your corpse fall off something, get blown across a room, or go sliding down some stairs / hill probably more often than not would make it desynchronize. I loved trying to revive someone and it would either not work, or I'd magically get someone that appeared to be dead like 15 feet away from me instead. Other players would sometimes spaz out and they'd spin or be looking the wrong way in firefights. Rarely you'd catch someone sliding around in the crouch position or something for a few seconds. People just flat out being positioned incorrectly is not a very good thing.
But back to the tick rate - as for the update rate, at 10hz some weapons could fire faster than you actually sent data.
Take the FAMAS for example, it fires at 1000rpm, or 16.6666666667 rounds per second. If you update 10 times per second... everything faster than 600rpm can fall into this problem. My guess is that it manifests as "delay." Probably part of the reason why it could appear like you were taking multiple hits worth of damage at once or die later than expected in certain cases. Instead of getting hit with a stream of rounds that comes across as 1-1-1-1 DEAD, you may get 1-1-2. If you got hit in the noggin, it may look like you just died instantly, leaving you with literally no time to react at all. Plus, the game trusts the client more than other titles... and you can get some really obnoxious results when someone has high latency.
The 30hz isn't a Sony / MS limit, it's an engine decision. There may be bandwidth limits and other gotchas that they need to meet for certification that indirectly affect this, though. If bandwidth usage is too high, consoles may not see this update.
CaptNumbNutz
Fully [H]
- Joined
- Apr 11, 2007
- Messages
- 25,023
I FUCKING KNEW IT. I knew it and couldn't prove it. I knew that some guns were firing faster than you could update, but I didn't piece it together with that "instant" kill people were experiencing. I bet its also why I waste a ridiculous amount of ammo on guns that fire over 800 rps. It always seems like I need that extra burst to take them down.
Thank you for posting that.
I am simply stating what I've been reading. A lot of people are saying that the 30hz limit is something that Sony and MS implemented, but I figured it might be more complex than that.socK said:
Open the in game console and enable perfoverlay.drawgraph
It charts GPU and CPU time, and you can usually get a good idea of what is struggling more.
Mantle might also be the issue still. It has improved but I don't think it is quite ready for prime time yet. Try DX11 and compare the two.
ok this is where i am currently
windows 8 64-bit 8gb/ i5 4670 / r9 290
sorry for all the images. I just want to get this right. Is anything out of the ordinary?
i havent gamed on pc ion a while and the customization for bf4 threw me off. I tried doing some cfg tweaks but im not sure if there is anything else i can do.
everything low except for mesh quality (ultra). Resolution scale 60%. Catalyst control wasnt on
Same server for all the pics. About 42 players.
Direct x with i5 4670k @ 3.4
Mantle with i5 4670k @3.4 capped fps to 144
Direct x with i5 4670k @ 4ghz oced in bios
mantle with i5 4670k @ 4ghz capped fps to 144
thanks for the help.
windows 8 64-bit 8gb/ i5 4670 / r9 290
sorry for all the images. I just want to get this right. Is anything out of the ordinary?
i havent gamed on pc ion a while and the customization for bf4 threw me off. I tried doing some cfg tweaks but im not sure if there is anything else i can do.
everything low except for mesh quality (ultra). Resolution scale 60%. Catalyst control wasnt on
Same server for all the pics. About 42 players.
Direct x with i5 4670k @ 3.4
Mantle with i5 4670k @3.4 capped fps to 144
Direct x with i5 4670k @ 4ghz oced in bios
mantle with i5 4670k @ 4ghz capped fps to 144
thanks for the help.
CaptNumbNutz
Fully [H]
- Joined
- Apr 11, 2007
- Messages
- 25,023
Holy shit. Played the Beta CTE servers last night, conquest and TDM/Domination.
Night and Day difference, and that was just changing the tick rate. All the other things they implemented were minor bug fixes. My KDR doubled in the first match, my overall average FPS was higher (but peak fps was the same). and my mouse and keyboard input seemed smoother. Not sure if those last things I mentioned (fps, smoothness) are attributed to netcode or other graphics/bug fixes.
That being said, there is a small number of people reporting it is having the exact opposite affect. Some are mentioning that they likely have upload bandwidth issues either with their ISP, router/modem, or something else. Not sure when they will implement the fix.
Night and Day difference, and that was just changing the tick rate. All the other things they implemented were minor bug fixes. My KDR doubled in the first match, my overall average FPS was higher (but peak fps was the same). and my mouse and keyboard input seemed smoother. Not sure if those last things I mentioned (fps, smoothness) are attributed to netcode or other graphics/bug fixes.
That being said, there is a small number of people reporting it is having the exact opposite affect. Some are mentioning that they likely have upload bandwidth issues either with their ISP, router/modem, or something else. Not sure when they will implement the fix.
I saw several people bitching and whining last night about it's not any better... while they had 130+ ping. Some people are impressively brain dead. There's no east coast servers so I had 70, but there was a noticeable difference still.
CaptNumbNutz
Fully [H]
- Joined
- Apr 11, 2007
- Messages
- 25,023
Yep, saw the same thing. It was fucking hilarious too.
"Your ping is 150+. Where are you connecting from?"
"XYZ island in the south china sea."
"There's your problem."
I've seen 2 guys that had sub 20 pings, and several others in the 50 range that the Beta was worse, but again people think its a problem with their upload bandwidth or other something else. The overwhelming majority report most "netcode" related issues fixed.
Last edited:
Yeah, the people DICE was trying to cater to in moving from BF3's 10-30Hz variable tickrate, to BF4's 10Hz static tickrate, was the people on shit connections - in order to support as large a playerbase as possible. And with the tickrate increasing, its naturally going to bring out the whiners on those shit connections because of the additional bandwidth required. But f### em, and that goes for all the laggers that have been wearing everyones patience real thin by intentionally connecting to servers in other countries to gain an advantage.
Last edited:
Flogger23m
[H]F Junkie
- Joined
- Jun 19, 2009
- Messages
- 14,425
Where can I try the beta? Noticed many high pings last night myself.
CaptNumbNutz
Fully [H]
- Joined
- Apr 11, 2007
- Messages
- 25,023
So rather than sticking with what works with the majority of people, they caved again and implemented another half-ass untested fix.
I agree. fuck em. Make it work properly or don't make it at all. What they should have done is kept the same tick rate from BF3, but put in that packet loss indicator (white flashing squares in upper right) since the beginning. The forums would have lit up first few days with whiny bitches, but that situation would have resolved itself quickly as dumbasses figured out they need to reboot modems/routers, stop torrenting, or call their ISP's. There would still be a small percentage of unfortunate souls with no recourse, but at least DICE wouldn't have brought down the nerd rage of their entire fanbase like they have this time.
The only people I have zero sympathy for are the Asians connecting from Korea and Japan. Those fucktards have some of the best internet connections on the planet and plenty of servers in their home countries, yet distance alone means their pings are 200+ when connecting to North America. You can spot them easily late at night with their emblems, obvious Engrish names, and massive pings. Even Europeans connecting to NA servers don't have that high of ping. I am certain they are intentionally abusing the system. They can't be that stupid.DPI said:
Last edited:
CaptNumbNutz
Fully [H]
- Joined
- Apr 11, 2007
- Messages
- 25,023
That must be patch test #2 coming in. Anxious to see what they changed this time.
Bullitt
2[H]4U
- Joined
- Sep 28, 2004
- Messages
- 2,931
FFS... I got into the CTE and began downloading last night after my usual session until Windows update decided that it wanted to REBOOT RIGHT NOW!!! (yaarrrrr).
Dying to try it out, but looks like I'll have to wait another day. I'm not going to give up some prime-time.
Porter_
[H]F Junkie
- Joined
- Sep 10, 2007
- Messages
- 8,467
i'm done with Mantle. it's a piece of shit. stutter and drops to 25 fps every 30 seconds. i'm back to DX and no more fps drops. my next video card purchase will not be based on API.
Are you running out of VRAM and thrashing?
Porter_
[H]F Junkie
- Joined
- Sep 10, 2007
- Messages
- 8,467
No VRAM usage is ~3Gb under Mantle
It's their drivers ... They need a separate driver package for mantle because the 14 series has been horrid for me and mantle is nothing to write home about on Tahiti cards.
Porter_
[H]F Junkie
- Joined
- Sep 10, 2007
- Messages
- 8,467
indeed it is
chameleoneel
Supreme [H]ardness
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2005
- Messages
- 7,667
CTE is an acronym. Community Test Environment. The point is, they are testing these changes.
The Community Test Environment (CTE) will provide passionate fans the chance to evolve Battlefield 4 with us and become a part of the development process. We’ll be able to test new ideas and solutions to current issues before we roll them out to all Battlefield players.
CaptNumbNutz
Fully [H]
- Joined
- Apr 11, 2007
- Messages
- 25,023
No shit. Re-read the post from user DPI that I was quoting. Your reply has nothing to do with what we were discussing.
The half-assed fix I was referring to is DICE implementing the 10hz tick rate for initial release back in October to accomodate the people with shitty internet connections.
it wasn't just for people with crap connections tho, i think that limit was part of the Microsoft terms trying to stay under a certain upload/bandwidth requirement to get your game certified for 360.
obviously i would prefer them to say fuck the consoles but its EA they wont do that.
One of the DICE devs actually spoke to this point in the CTE forum -- he denied that the bandwidth limitations imposed by the console companies had anything to do with their considerations for tickrate on PC.
Regardless of what the truth is here, to me its unforgivable that BF4 regressed from how things were in BF3 as far as the fidelity between the client and server. In BF3 you could feel and hear the snap sound from individual shots hitting you and could react. In BF4 the enemy's shots would back up into a sort of queue and then you'd get him with them all at once and often die in a single frame or two. At least that's what it felt like.
I know DICE says that one of the problems is all the additional things they added like increased destruction - meaning lots more event data occurring within the simulation has to be sync'd every frame, but it should have never been done at the cost of core gameplay.
Alas, at least they're finally doing something. Maybe they finally realized that if they didn't fix BF4 and just left it to rot, that the poor lasting impression would seriously undermine sales of their next title.
Last edited:
collegeboy69us
Supreme [H]ardness
- Joined
- Jul 27, 2003
- Messages
- 5,255
id love to get in on this CTE thing --- but have no idea how.
At work now and can't really go digging around on game sites.
At work now and can't really go digging around on game sites.
Ever since naval strike came out I've had serious FPS issues, before that everything was silky with the rig in my sig on a mix of ultra/high settings @ 1080P. Now running the perfoverlay graph every once in awhile randomly I'll get a CPU spike so high it actually shoots off the graph. When this happens I drop to about 4 FPS. The longer I play the worse it gets.
I can't figure out why. I'm running the latest whql ati drivers, everything is up to date. I even went so far as to delete it off my SSD and install it on a brand new 1TB seagate drive. And yes this happens with my settings on stock or running slight over clocks. It's also the only game that does this.
Not sure how to fix it, and as I really enjoy playing it's been kind of a downer. Anybody else have this or a similar issue?
I can't figure out why. I'm running the latest whql ati drivers, everything is up to date. I even went so far as to delete it off my SSD and install it on a brand new 1TB seagate drive. And yes this happens with my settings on stock or running slight over clocks. It's also the only game that does this.
Not sure how to fix it, and as I really enjoy playing it's been kind of a downer. Anybody else have this or a similar issue?
Long-standing bugs are being fixed due to feedback, like being unable to revive people on inclines, and the issue with plane bullets not dealing damage at extremely high altitude.
verylostindeed
Gawd
- Joined
- Dec 27, 2004
- Messages
- 660
[Paragon];1040834507 said:
I have a somewhat similar issue. For the first two or three minutes every time I start the game, my FPS will cut in half of worse for 1 or 2 second bursts. This, of course, results in a jarring stutter and erratic movement. After the first few minutes, it stops doing this and everything is fine. Started around naval strike for me too. r290x in CFX.
WhyYouLoveMe
Supreme [H]ardness
- Joined
- May 24, 2005
- Messages
- 6,513
Had my first CTE experience tonight. Overall it was positive during the 5 rounds I played on a US server with 20-50 ping.
Zero lag/rubber banding, gun play was sharper, not once did I get the "behind cover then die", audio was more in sync with what was happening on screen and FPS was similar to the retail game.
The only persistent bug I ran into was the nade disappearing act after you throw and die.
Progress! (although 8 months late...eek)
Zero lag/rubber banding, gun play was sharper, not once did I get the "behind cover then die", audio was more in sync with what was happening on screen and FPS was similar to the retail game.
The only persistent bug I ran into was the nade disappearing act after you throw and die.
Progress! (although 8 months late...eek)