AMD 7900XT and 7900 XTX Reviews

[SmokeRngs]

Agree to disagree. The fact remains that RT is here. AMD isn't. I would not buy a card that couldnt do RT as it should be. I am an early adopter, but its just writing on the wall at this point. It is a big issue for enthusiasts.

If you are happy buying a brand new card that is handicapped, that's fine. But i don't buy "top of line cards" to not have top of line features. You forgot quite a lot of AAA titles on that list as well just FYI.

And what, 85%+ of the market isn't you. Hell it's likely more like 99%+ of the market isn't you if you're talking 4k. And until ray tracing can be used on the vast majority of cards games aren't going to require it because the companies making the games could never recoup the development costs much less have a chance of making a profit. That's a fact and it's a fact which will hold back ray tracing for generations yet. That's why myself and many others find ray tracing to be moot at this time and for the foreseeable future. It's little more than a gimmick at this point. It should be something great down the line but the hardware to do it isn't here. Ray tracing is not "here" yet and that's a fact.

This is why I find it hilarious there are so many people out there who claim they won't touch AMD because of ray tracing performance. I'd be surprised if most of the people saying that even have a current card capable of turning on ray tracing and leaving it on. The irony is also great because by the time ray tracing becomes mainstream, both AMD and nVidia current cards will be considered sub-par.

But that assumes AMD and nVidia don't price themselves out of the market. The cost to make the cards keeps increasing and both companies seem to be doing their best to continually raise prices across product lines. Not only does that mean fewer cards sold in the long run, it also means adoption of newer features such as ray tracing will lag behind. We're already looking at waiting at least two or three generations before ray tracing might be properly useful on mainstream cards but if the adoption of those cards is retarded by continually increased prices it will be even longer before the software side catches up to use it. At least in this case AMD likely has a considerable advantage over nVidia with the use of chiplets on GPUs. The chiplet route is likely a hell of a lot cheaper which means AMD can afford to cut prices or at least stall price increases over time.

 

[scoundrel]

IMHO, enthusiasts are a crowd and regular gamers are some other folks. They don't mix. RT is great, but the fact is that if you are a normal gamer, who has strong preferences for some titles that you play online and gaming in community is your focus, then RT is disposable to this day. I don't know a single gamer that thinks RT is something worth 1600$ for a card plus more than that for an entire new rig to running it well. Take out all the "new" upscaling BS, along with RT and you end up with a majority of gamers that, besides not caring at all, just want their thing to play smoothly. That said, 60+ FPS @ 1080p is still the standard for non competitive games, so, all that cafofo involving "new" technologies is gonna be important only when it works well and doesn't screw the game for the vast majority of players. Other than that, it's still just cosmetic stuff and makes no difference for those who just wanna enjoy their gaming time.

 

[Armenius]

And what, 85%+ of the market isn't you. Hell it's likely more like 99%+ of the market isn't you if you're talking 4k. And until ray tracing can be used on the vast majority of cards games aren't going to require it because the companies making the games could never recoup the development costs much less have a chance of making a profit. That's a fact and it's a fact which will hold back ray tracing for generations yet. That's why myself and many others find ray tracing to be moot at this time and for the foreseeable future. It's little more than a gimmick at this point. It should be something great down the line but the hardware to do it isn't here. Ray tracing is not "here" yet and that's a fact.

This is why I find it hilarious there are so many people out there who claim they won't touch AMD because of ray tracing performance. I'd be surprised if most of the people saying that even have a current card capable of turning on ray tracing and leaving it on. The irony is also great because by the time ray tracing becomes mainstream, both AMD and nVidia current cards will be considered sub-par.

But that assumes AMD and nVidia don't price themselves out of the market. The cost to make the cards keeps increasing and both companies seem to be doing their best to continually raise prices across product lines. Not only does that mean fewer cards sold in the long run, it also means adoption of newer features such as ray tracing will lag behind. We're already looking at waiting at least two or three generations before ray tracing might be properly useful on mainstream cards but if the adoption of those cards is retarded by continually increased prices it will be even longer before the software side catches up to use it. At least in this case AMD likely has a considerable advantage over nVidia with the use of chiplets on GPUs. The chiplet route is likely a hell of a lot cheaper which means AMD can afford to cut prices or at least stall price increases over time.

The only cards being sold new on the market that can't do ray tracing are the cheap ones basically made for just display output and video playback, like the 1630. If you're buying a video card for gaming today, it can do ray tracing.

 

[NightReaver]

If you're buying a video card for gaming today, it can do ray tracing.

lol, sure, technically. But according to some, 3090(ti) raytracing isn't good anymore. Therefore the only card that can apparently do it well is the 4090.

 

[NKD]

Agree to disagree. The fact remains that RT is here. AMD isn't. I would not buy a card that couldnt do RT as it should be. I am an early adopter, but its just writing on the wall at this point. It is a big issue for enthusiasts.

If you are happy buying a brand new card that is handicapped, that's fine. But i don't buy "top of line cards" to not have top of line features. You forgot quite a lot of AAA titles on that list as well just FYI.

if you took a survey I can promise you people grabbing 4090 aren't grabbing it for just RT. That is minority may be. People grabbing 4090 are the ones that don't care and want the absolute fastest card. There is nothing else to it. Its because they want the fastest and RT comes with it. Its not like 4090 is pumping 100+ fps in cyberpunk at 4k.

 

[NKD]

lol, sure, technically. But according to some, 3090(ti) raytracing isn't good anymore. Therefore the only card that can apparently do it well is the 4090.

Yea I don't get this. either way if you are playing heavy RT game at 4k you have no choice but to use upscaling then doesn't matter if its 7900xtx 4080 or 4090. Sure 4090 is nicer but it becomes playable with other cards too. To my eyes It don't matter so I just turn off ray tracing and I don't feel like I am missing out in the game lmao.

 

[FrgMstr]

I think how much RT will catch up will be link to how much Unreal 5 will work well or not and the next generation of consoles

This is what a lot of people are missing. The lighting engine in UE5 is going to be a HUGE deal and is very likely to "strike a blow" to RTX going forward. UE5 is going to simply dominate the PC/Console game engine world going forward most likely.

 

[ChadD]

if you took a survey I can promise you people grabbing 4090 aren't grabbing it for just RT. That is minority may be. People grabbing 4090 are the ones that don't care and want the absolute fastest card. There is nothing else to it. Its because they want the fastest and RT comes with it. Its not like 4090 is pumping 100+ fps in cyberpunk at 4k.

This is pretty much about it. The 4090 is very impressive. I'll give it to nvidia, their still monolithic designs means there good titan / 90 class chips can really push. There is still an advantage there if your designing a chip knowing 90% are going to be less then 100% but your ok with that because the top 1% can go into datacenter cards and the top 10% can become titans.

It is still underwhelming 3 generations in that RT is still not a just turn it on feature (at least at 4k). I guess if your gaming at 1440 with a 4090... but then your card is serious overkill in title without or light RT use. I will say the 4090 is the first time I have honestly said ya ok RT might not go the way of VR. (half joking on that last bit)

 

[csnv]

That's true; I'm mainly talking about the horsepower needed to provide a clear edge over current-gen consoles. You don't need an RX 7900 or RTX 40 series for that, of course, but even an RTX 3060 costs almost as much as a PS5. Don't get me wrong, a gaming PC or GPU upgrade can still make more sense in the right circumstances. I just think there's only a relatively small group of people who think that spending tons on their computer is a better value proposition than a console.

Look at it this way: the $899 you'd spend for an RX 7900 XT can get you a PS5 and a TV. Ask a budget-conscious gamer which of the two they'd rather have and they'll very likely pick the console setup.

a decent gaming pc with top cards can be built around 2k that can run any game from any console or PC. a PS5 can only do PS5 games. not counting folks who dont want to pay for games (and that's huge all by itself), that's still a much much much better option than a ps5 or xboxx..

 

[NKD]

So AMD just had a huge drop and I might have gotten two. I forgot to use the card that gave me cash back for me and stupid paypal used paypal credit instead of my amex that had bonus cash back so I did another one. Figured I would return the other and sell one here if anyone wants it with shipping only lmao. Thats if they don't cancel both being shipped to same address lmao.

I was surprised it didn't crash. I don't think bots or scalpers are after it that much lmao. Looks like AMD doesn't have a cancel button, its all refusing package or returning it for refund.

 

[Randall Stephens]

So AMD just had a huge drop and I might have gotten two. I forgot to use the card that gave me cash back for me and stupid paypal used paypal credit instead of my amex that had bonus cash back so I did another one. Figured I would return the other and sell one here if anyone wants it with shipping only lmao. Thats if they don't cancel both being shipped to same address lmao.

I was surprised it didn't crash. I don't think bots or scalpers are after it that much lmao. Looks like AMD doesn't have a cancel button, its all refusing package or returning it for refund.

Part of me suspected they might filter it out in waves.

 

[Furious_Styles]

So AMD just had a huge drop and I might have gotten two. I forgot to use the card that gave me cash back for me and stupid paypal used paypal credit instead of my amex that had bonus cash back so I did another one. Figured I would return the other and sell one here if anyone wants it with shipping only lmao. Thats if they don't cancel both being shipped to same address lmao.

I was surprised it didn't crash. I don't think bots or scalpers are after it that much lmao. Looks like AMD doesn't have a cancel button, its all refusing package or returning it for refund.

Yeah you just have to refuse it. I accidentally ordered the wrong thing and had to do it a year or so ago.

 

[NukeDukem]

So AMD just had a huge drop and I might have gotten two.

Too bad you can't CrossFire them. I kind of miss those days. Unwarranted nostalgia considering all the headaches, I know. But that powah! Imagine the 4k FPS!

 

[NKD]

Yeah you just have to refuse it. I accidentally ordered the wrong thing and had to do it a year or so ago.

I wish there was a way to do it through fed ex manager. Just refuse the shipment through it so I don’t have to do it at the door or track it Lmao.

 

[NKD]

Too bad you can't CrossFire them. I kind of miss those days. Unwarranted nostalgia considering all the headaches, I know. But that powah! Imagine the 4k FPS!

Lmao honestly I would probably do it. I really do miss those days lmao. For the kick of it. . Will probably sell one after playing around with it though.

 

[chameleoneel]

you don't even need these high end cards to play on a PC anyway. You can do it just fine, although at lower resolutions with older series cards. Long as you don't need 4k and maxed out graphics to be happy, you could be using a something older and do the same at 1080p.

Its only within the past couple months, that you can even get a GPU rougly equivalent to the PS5---for less than a PS5.

 

[Aurelius]

a decent gaming pc with top cards can be built around 2k that can run any game from any console or PC. a PS5 can only do PS5 games. not counting folks who dont want to pay for games (and that's huge all by itself), that's still a much much much better option than a ps5 or xboxx..

Any console? Er, no; you can use emulators to handle many, but "any" is a claim that just won't hold up if you're sticking to legal methods. And there's a difference between running a game and running it well. From what I've seen, it's not clear that 3D PS4 games even run properly in PC emulators.

And a PS5 can play PS4 games... you do know that, right? Some of the first games I played on my PS5 were unoptimized PS4 titles. We're a long way from the days when you had to keep an old console around to play your existing collection. Sorry, but a console remains a solid investment for many gamers. Arguably moreso than a GPU that you might feel pressured to upgrade years sooner.

 

[Furious_Styles]

I wish there was a way to do it through fed ex manager. Just refuse the shipment through it so I don’t have to do it at the door or track it Lmao.

It's certainly annoying. I caught the error hours after making it and had a hard time believing they didn't have an option to cancel. There's no way it costs them less to have stuff returned rather than simply not shipping it.

 

[LukeTbk]

This is what a lot of people are missing. The lighting engine in UE5 is going to be a HUGE deal and is very likely to "strike a blow" to RTX going forward. UE5 is going to simply dominate the PC/Console game engine world going forward most likely.

UE5 is doing RT..... It will likely democratize it and make it the norm (or it will look a bit strange and be too performance heavy and not be popular, looking/playing at their demo it is not obvious).

With what Plague Tale and COD just achieved to do without it.. could take a while.

 

[FrgMstr]

UE5 is doing RT..... It will likely democratize it and make it the norm.

Exactly. I should have said "RTX" in my post. Corrected.

 

[Lakados]

Any console? Er, no; you can use emulators to handle many, but "any" is a claim that just won't hold up if you're sticking to legal methods. And there's a difference between running a game and running it well. From what I've seen, it's not clear that 3D PS4 games even run properly in PC emulators.

And a PS5 can play PS4 games... you do know that, right? Some of the first games I played on my PS5 were unoptimized PS4 titles. We're a long way from the days when you had to keep an old console around to play your existing collection. Sorry, but a console remains a solid investment for many gamers. Arguably moreso than a GPU that you might feel pressured to upgrade years sooner.

Strong console options and the power behind the current ones is the sole reason that neither AMD nor Nvidia see a need to compete for mid to low-tier of graphics cards and are content letting their previous generations and the used market handle that space. There is not a lot you can do in the sub $1200 space that can rival the current gaming power of the consoles for modern titles, if you are content with titles 10 years or older then you have a plethora of options.

 

[Gulkor]

there is always something better around corner lol. UE5 might be new thing today, but it will be replaced with something new in few months to year, its way tech works..there is always something better coming out.

 

[FrgMstr]

there is always something better around corner lol. UE5 might be new thing today, but it will be replaced with something new in few months to year, its way tech works..there is always something better coming out.

Yeah.....UE6.

 

[Lakados]

This is what a lot of people are missing. The lighting engine in UE5 is going to be a HUGE deal and is very likely to "strike a blow" to RTX going forward. UE5 is going to simply dominate the PC/Console game engine world going forward most likely.

Lumen is awesome and is an extremely capable lowest common denominator for lighting, shadows, and reflections and it is something that is too often overlooked by most. The advancements to it and nanite in 5.1 and the fact they managed to work the methods to maintain compatibility with the consoles is a huge achievement and I know a lot of Unity developers who are actively looking at the options they have to port over because it is a very big deal.

 

[FrgMstr]

Lumen is awesome and is an extremely capable lowest common denominator for lighting, shadows, and reflections and it is something that is too often overlooked by most. The advancements to it and nanite in 5.1 and the fact they managed to work the methods to maintain compatibility with the consoles is a huge achievement and I know a lot of Unity developers who are actively looking at the options they have to port over because it is a very big deal.

My overall thought on this in total agreement. Desktop gaming will be moving to UE while Unity keeps its successful grips on mobile gaming.

 

[madpistol]

This is what a lot of people are missing. The lighting engine in UE5 is going to be a HUGE deal and is very likely to "strike a blow" to RTX going forward. UE5 is going to simply dominate the PC/Console game engine world going forward most likely.

I think Lumen is amazing, but from what I've seen, it's very expensive to implement every feature that UE5 has to offer, so expensive that it would make the PS5/XSS/XSX buckle. Devs are going to have to do a lot of optimization using UE5 to make the games look and run well. Hopefully these optimizations will also result in better looking and higher performance games on PC as well.

RT is obviously more expensive, but we now have dedicated hardware for it. We now have competing technologies in the PC gaming space again... which is very exciting. This is when the most progress happens.

 

[Lakados]

My overall thought on this in total agreement. Desktop gaming will be moving to UE while Unity keeps its successful grips on mobile gaming.

Unity has its versions of this in the works, but their answers in the developer forums make it sound at least 2 years out.

 

[SmokeRngs]

The only cards being sold new on the market that can't do ray tracing are the cheap ones basically made for just display output and video playback, like the 1630. If you're buying a video card for gaming today, it can do ray tracing.

Go ahead, turn ray tracing on on a 2060 and see what happens. Let's see how well it can "do" ray tracing. I doubt you're going to find very many people who enjoy the slideshow.

 

[madpistol]

Don't forget that Cryengine also has their own version of RT that does not require dedicated RT hardware to run.

 

[Lakados]

I think Lumen is amazing, but from what I've seen, it's very expensive to implement every feature that UE5 has to offer, so expensive that it would make the PS5/XSS/XSX buckle. Devs are going to have to do a lot of optimization using UE5 to make the games look and run well. Hopefully these optimizations will also result in better looking and higher performance games on PC as well.

RT is obviously more expensive, but we now have dedicated hardware for it. We now have competing technologies in the PC gaming space again... which is very exciting. This is when the most progress happens.

Yes and no, its more expensive yes, but it gives features you can't actually do on a current console or on its desktop equivalent of GPU, the fact they have methods for cutting it down further to maintain 60fps on the current consoles really shows how much thought they put into it. The material reflections and lighting that Lumen provides on the console are not something you can replicate with normal raster methods without blowing your budget on the art department. Trying to accomplish those tasks with normal raster methods is what leads to $70 games, which are hallway simulators, that last 8-12h of actual gameplay, looking at your Square...
Lumen and Nanite open up a lot of possibilities do developers to do different things with their budgets, like invest in more gameplay, environments, and story content.

 

[Lakados]

Don't forget that Cryengine also has their own version of RT that does not require dedicated RT hardware to run.

Not quite they used a voxel-based global illumination process which Nvidia again sort of wrote the book on, 5 years prior to the Neon Noir release.
https://on-demand.gputechconf.com/s...el-Based-Global-Illumination-Current-GPUs.pdf

 

[madpistol]

Not quite they used a voxel-based global illumination process which Nvidia again sort of wrote the book on, 5 years prior to the Neon Noir release.
https://on-demand.gputechconf.com/s...el-Based-Global-Illumination-Current-GPUs.pdf

True, but that doesn't change the fact that Cryengine supports RT without the use of dedicated RT hardware. It's an interesting solution.

Also, the Crysis Remaster has some of the same technology in it.

 

[LukeTbk]

Exactly. I should have said "RTX" in my post. Corrected.

Considering the 3090Ti seem to be faster than the 7900xtx at Fortnite rt on at 4K and Nvidia giant team and money working on a NvRTX Unreal Engine branch and Unity RTX, could go either way I imagine. I can see them able to put some RTX branding on UE 5 and achieve to leverage enough of the RT and denoising hardware to have better result than the competition (probably at the margin, look at the absence of a small light leak here).
https://nvdam.widen.net/s/fdtdbfjc6s/ue5-raytracing-guideline

Seem for now a complete emptiness of performance advantage claim even from Nvidia too.

But the general notion of do not worry to buy an RDNA 2 or 3 card, the tech world will not make giant priced AAA game that do not work on Ps5-Xbox anytime soon so there is no risk even if you would be really bull on the tech ended up true, they will be very well playable without issue on your 6800xt at least until we are well into the PS6 era.

 

[Lakados]

True, but that doesn't change the fact that Cryengine supports RT without the use of dedicated RT hardware. It's an interesting solution.

Also, the Crysis Remaster has some of the same technology in it.

I suppose there is that at the very least, I doubt it will get used much, but I am sure Star Citizen will spend an extra year or two implementing it...
Note:
That was a low blow but I'm not really sorry.

 

[NKD]

Yeah you just have to refuse it. I accidentally ordered the wrong thing and had to do it a year or so ago.

well AMD did cancel my second order. I figured they caught it as second order to same address since there is one per houshold limit. I am glad the system works in a way lmao.

 

[FrgMstr]

Considering the 3090Ti seem to be faster than the 7900xtx at Fortnite rt on at 4K and Nvidia giant team and money working on a NvRTX Unreal Engine branch and Unity RTX, could go either way I imagine.

Not going to make any calls on day one drivers on a totally new architecture that has no implementation track record as of yet.

 

[NKD]

Not going to make any calls on day one drivers on a totally new architecture that has no implementation track record as of yet.

True. IDK if you can verify but the twitter and youtube rumors are driver team kinda disappointed so far and one employee said driver team has been told to work holidays as everyone was expecting more consistent performance and better efficiency. Apparently 23.1.1 driver (likely januaryrelease based on driver number) is suppose to bring performance/efficiency improvements.

 

[UnknownSouljer]

I suppose there is that at the very least, I doubt it will get used much, but I am sure Star Citizen will spend an extra year or two implementing it...
Note:
That was a low blow but I'm not really sorry.

Don't worry, they'll try and port everything over to UE 5.1 in a few months. And that process of moving from CryEngine to Unreal will only take a few years. And then when 6 is launched around that same time frame, they'll try to port to that.

 

[HumanBias]

Not going to make any calls on day one drivers on a totally new architecture that has no implementation track record as of yet.

There is a lot of backtalk about a respin of N31, so it would be prudent to hold of jugdement as I have doubts we have seen the full capabilities of the N31 if that holds true.

 

[FrgMstr]

True. IDK if you can verify but the twitter and youtube rumors are driver team kinda disappointed so far and one employee said driver team has been told to work holidays as everyone was expecting more consistent performance and better efficiency. Apparently 23.1.1 driver (likely januaryrelease based on driver number) is suppose to bring performance/efficiency improvements.

There is nothing "sudden" about the driver team work schedule. They are grinding, and have been grinding. There is a sense of urgency there.

The simple fact of the matter is that Radeon has no where near the resources that NV does and not near as many games and configurations are tested, it is just that simple.

To be totally honest, I can't even believe AMD is still in the discrete GPU business at all any more.