[PCPER] The NVIDIA GeForce GTX TITAN Z Review

[trungracingdev]

You're right, the GPU puts out far more heat than any other component. It's a shame you missed a KEY point I made in that post about GPU heat that the AIO water coolers cannot soak up.

It doesn't matter how well you cool the GPU, it will still leak heat into the PCB. And since it's such an intense heat source, it's actually a fair amount of heat (that then radiates into the case / cooling plate). Anyone who's mined for altcoins on a card with an AIO water cooler can vouch for this, the PCB itself gets blisteringly-hot even though the core is being cooled by a water block.

So, on the 295X2, you have ALL of the heat from the VRMs, ALL of the heat from the RAM, and a chunk of the heat from both GPU cores being dumped into the case no matter what (since they're handled by the fan, heatsink, and cooling plate mounted directly to the PCB).
On the Titan Z, almost-exactly half the card's heat is vented out the back of the case. Half the RAM, half the VRMs, and a GPU core.

So no, it's NOT a simple comparison. There are a lot of variables that narrow the gap as far as "absolute heat released into the case" goes on these two cards.

I'm comparing them based on their hardware. Everyone already knows the prices are out of whack *yawn*


Uh... what?

I said right from my first post that the price of the Titan Z was unacceptable... so you're wrong outright. I'm not trying to justify anything related to its price


Because there's really nothing wrong with the product itself. The only problem is that it's priced too high for what it is.

This was, again, stated very early-on in this thread.


I already said the price was too high... seriously, did you even read the thread? It sounds like you missed the first 2/3rds of it.

Also, Nvidia isn't forcing you to buy the Titan Z. Totally your own choice to dish out $3000 if you want the thing, so I'm not show how this equates with "rape" exactly

We've also already established that neither the Titan Z nor the 295 X2 make much sense for ANYONE, and that a normal dual-card setup (either crossfire or SLI) makes more sense than either one in most circumstance... just in case you missed that too.

Wtf??? Just fucking speak for yourself. The 295x2 doesn't make sense to "you".
Personally, even I thought about getting the 295x2. If you actually read all the gaming forums, you can see a lot of interested buyers for the 295x2. You can't say the same about the Titan Z, rightly so....

 

[wonderfield]

Why is NVIDIA denying review samples? I'm fairly certain they knew they had something of poor value with the FX5800, but that certainly did not stop them from sending out samples to the press. Why, in this instance, are they withholding?

 

[Unknown-One]

Wtf??? Just fucking speak for yourself. The 295x2 doesn't make sense to "you".

As other people have already brought up in this thread, a normal dual-card setup makes more sense for most people. Faster and cheaper than the 295X2.

 

[CAD4466HK]

Looks like Origin is taking a leap of faith by offering a Titan Z in a Raven Z RVZ01.

http://www.legitreviews.com/origin-pcs-chronos-nvidia-gtx-titan-z-shown-e3_144683

 

[jbltecnicspro]

Why is NVIDIA denying review samples? I'm fairly certain they knew they had something of poor value with the FX5800, but that certainly did not stop them from sending out samples to the press. Why, in this instance, are they withholding?

Entirely different circumstances, I'm guessing. GeForce FX-5800 was Nvidia's answer to R300. Regardless of whether or not it beat the Radeon, it NEEDED to get out the gate (remember, it was late). This is entirely different. Titan-Z is out of reach for pretty much almost everyone. It's another "halo" product and isn't up against the ropes against anything except for the dual-Hawaii Radeon, which is another halo product. It (the launch, product, price - the whole package) is an embarrassment. Dual GPU cards are a limited market already, but this dual GPU can't really be justified by anyone. They really should just drop the damn MSRP to $2000.

 

[RamonGTP]

You're right, the GPU puts out far more heat than any other component. It's a shame you missed a KEY point I made in that post about GPU heat that the AIO water coolers cannot soak up.

It doesn't matter how well you cool the GPU, it will still leak heat into the PCB. And since it's such an intense heat source, it's actually a fair amount of heat (that then radiates into the case / cooling plate). Anyone who's mined for altcoins on a card with an AIO water cooler can vouch for this, the PCB itself gets blisteringly-hot even though the core is being cooled by a water block.

I didn't miss any point... It DOES matter how well you cool the GPU. The better you cool it, the less heat gets dissipated into areas where you don't want them to. Whatever points you tried to make where rather pointless. You said the difference might not be as large as you think. The reasons you gave for this were nonsense. There's a reason no one is agreeing with you, and it isn't because we all missed your point.

 

[RamonGTP]

As other people have already brought up in this thread, a normal dual-card setup makes more sense for most people. Faster and cheaper than the 295X2.

And a LOT faster and a LOT cheaper than the joke that is a Titan Z... You left out that part of the equation.

 

[Unknown-One]

And a LOT faster and a LOT cheaper than the joke that is a Titan Z... You left out that part of the equation.

Didn't need to be said. Should be fairly obvious that, if a configuration is faster and cheaper than the 295X2, then it's also faster and cheaper than the Titan Z.

The point is, neither dual-GPU card from either company makes much sense in most use-cases. People are making bang-for-buck arguments about the 295X2, without addressing the elephant in the room: There are better bang-for-buck options than the 295X2 that are cheaper and perform better.

And again, how is the Titan Z a joke? Nobody can really seem to answer that. I see lots of points about the Titan Z's price being laughable, which I agree with.. but nobody has yet told me why the Titan Z is a "joke" of any kind.

I didn't miss any point... It DOES matter how well you cool the GPU. The better you cool it, the less heat gets dissipated into areas where you don't want them to.

Better cooling certainly helps, but it doesn't eliminate heat from the GPUs dissipating into the PCB. That was my point.

You said the difference might not be as large as you think. The reasons you gave for this were nonsense.

Uh, no they weren't? I laid out a straightforward comparison.

Heat that must enter the case on the 295X2:
- All heat from RAM, All heat from VRMs, some heat from two GPUs.

Heat that must enter the case on the Titan Z:
- Half heat from RAM, half heat from VRMs, one out of two GPUs.

This isn't nonsense, it's exactly what's happening with the cooling solutions bolted to these two cards. It's not just something you can dismiss
You might be surprised at just how much heat a 295X2 dumps into your case, even with the water cooler. It's probably more than you think.

 

[RamonGTP]

How Titan Z is a joke has been answered multiple times in this thread, and others where you've defended it. If you haven't gotten it yet, you won't ever. At this point, it's your responsibility to figure out what's been laid out in front of you time and again. If you can't, then you can't.

And as to your points... Yes, they indeed were nonsense. The fact that you said how well you cool it doesn't matter and now you say it certainly helps is just one bit of evidence of how you're all over the place with nonsensical arguments.

 

[Unknown-One]

How Titan Z is a joke has been answered multiple times in this thread

I just see the price being brought up over and over, but nothing that's actually a problem with the Titan Z itself.

And as to your points... Yes, they indeed were nonsense. The fact that you said how well you cool it doesn't matter and now you say it certainly helps is just one bit of evidence of how you're all over the place with nonsensical arguments.

I'm not "all over the place," you're simply not reading / missing context.

Go back and re-read what you originally quoted. I said "It doesn't matter how well you cool the GPU, it will still leak heat into the PCB"
Barring sub-zero cooling, this is true. The GPU will heat up the PCB.

Better cooling will help reduce this effect, but not eliminate it. Thus, what I originally said remains true (it will still leak heat into the PCB).

 

[Brackle]

I just see the price being brought up over and over, but nothing that's actually a problem with the Titan Z itself.


I'm not "all over the place," you're simply not reading / missing context.

Go back and re-read what you originally quoted. I said "It doesn't matter how well you cool the GPU, it will still leak heat into the PCB"
Barring sub-zero cooling, this is true. The GPU will heat up the PCB.

Better cooling will help reduce this effect, but not eliminate it. Thus, what I originally said remains true (it will still leak heat into the PCB).

So now you are trying to say that Heat from the PCB is a bad thing and will heat up your pc, which is why the 295x2 is a bad choice over a Titan Z.

Gotcha

 

[RamonGTP]

No one said heat won't get into the case, and you know it. You implied that because of this phenomenon, the difference in heat in the case might not be very large when comparing exhausting hot air out side vs inside the case. Which IS nonsense.

Trying to pretend the heat dissipation properties of the PCB is anywhere close to that of a water block with a large radiator and fan is the most desperate and retarded argument I've heard in a very long time. Perhaps ever.

The only thing you've succeeded in doing here is losing respect and credibility, and I highly doubt I'm speaking for just myself when saying this.

 

[RamonGTP]

So now you are trying to say that Heat from the PCB is a bad thing and will heat up your pc, which is why the 295x2 is a bad choice over a Titan Z.

Gotcha

It's amazing how willing some people are to dumb themselves down to defend a product.

 

[Unknown-One]

You implied that because of this phenomenon, the difference in heat in the case might not be very large when comparing exhausting hot air out side vs inside the case. Which IS nonsense.

How is it nonsense, exactly?

Both cards dissipate heat into the case. All I'm saying is that the hybrid cooler on the 295X2 doesn't eliminate as much heat from being dumped into the case as you might expect.

You keep dismissing that entire concept as "nonsense" without actually being able to offer up any reason as to why... so yeah, I'm just going to keep restating it because you've put up no contest.

Trying to pretend the heat dissipation properties of the PCB is anywhere close to that of a water block with a large radiator and fan is the most desperate and retarded argument I've heard in a very long time. Perhaps ever.

Who said it was close? That would be desperate and retarded, but I never made such a claim.

I said heat leaked into the PCB and dissipated by the cooling plate was significant to overall cooling, but I NEVER said it was going to be "close" to the heat dissipated by the water block.

I don't appreciate you making up arguments that I never made. Seriously, please read and fully understand what you're responding to before making baseless attacks.

Also, you might want to take a look at Arctic Cooling's current range of GPU cooling products, as they cool the RAM and VRMs through the PCB. Apparently, the PCB is a good enough conductor of heat that cooling the PCB near the VRMs and RAM is enough to cool the chips effectively.
I guess Arctic Cooling's engineers are "tetarded" now too, huh?

So now you are trying to say that Heat from the PCB is a bad thing and will heat up your pc, which is why the 295x2 is a bad choice over a Titan Z.

Gotcha

Where did I say that, exactly?

All I said is that the 295X2 will likely dump more heat than one would expect into a PC case. That's one small point among many that have been made throughout this thread.

It's amazing how willing some people are to dumb themselves down to defend a product.

What's more amazing is the lack of reading comprehension demonstrated in this thread.

The only thing you've succeeded in doing here is losing respect and credibility, and I highly doubt I'm speaking for just myself when saying this.

Says the guy who's making up arguments by putting words in other people's mouths... yeah, good one.

 

[trungracingdev]

As other people have already brought up in this thread, a normal dual-card setup makes more sense for most people. Faster and cheaper than the 295X2.

Its 2 x 290x in "one" card that's "water cooled" and "over clocked" with a "warranty"? You retarded? The alternative you've provided is 2 card (4 slots), slower (just look at [H] own review, the 295x2 is faster than crossfired 290x and 780ti in sli), runs hotter, throttles when temps gets intense (the 295x2 doesn't throttle unlike a crossfire 290x or the Titan Z), and a lot noisier (unless you do custom water cooling which cost $, voids warranty and easily installed incorrectly). You do save a lot of money going the 290x crossfire route but lose a lot of the benefits mentioned above.

780ti x 2 would cost ~$1400
290x x 2 would cost ~$1100
295x2 is $1500

With all the benefits going with the 295x2, $1500 is a fair price to pay. There's no way I would pay for a pair of 780tis and lose all the benefits of the 295x2 just to save $100. Let's not put the Titan Z in this discussion, it makes no sense whatsoever for a gamer.

 

[RamonGTP]

How is it nonsense, exactly?

Both cards dissipate heat into the case. All I'm saying is that the hybrid cooler on the 295X2 doesn't eliminate as much heat from being dumped into the case as you might expect.

And how did you acquire this sixth sense knowledge of our expectations?

Sounds like more nonsensical arguments to me. Pretty sure you just went full retard here.

Says the guy who's making up arguments by putting words in other people's mouths... yeah, good one.

For someone complaining that others have reading comprehension issues, I'm surprised by this comment. If you practiced what you preached, you'd easily have recognized I'm not the only one saying this.

 

[wonderfield]

All I'm saying is that the hybrid cooler on the 295X2 doesn't eliminate as much heat from being dumped into the case as you might expect.

What would be your estimate for that? The statement won't mean much to anyone if you can't put a number to it.

 

[pcjunkie]

I think the major point here is if anyone tried shoving a Titan Z or 295X2 into a mini itx case they have more money then common sense. The other one is if anyone can do it it's Unknown-One because he has the hypothetical pulled out of my ass never owned either expertise on performance and thermals between AMD and Nvidia with that particular itx case that isn't even available yet.

 

[Unknown-One]

And how did you acquire this sixth sense knowledge of our expectations?

Never said I did. Note, I said "might expect" not "do expect."

You keep failing to read simple statements. It's getting annoying...

Sounds like more nonsensical arguments to me. Pretty sure you just went full retard here.

What's nonsensical about the notion that a cooler isn't as effective as well as you might expect from looking at it, exactly? That's a pretty simple notion.

What would be your estimate for that? The statement won't mean much to anyone if you can't put a number to it.

Already mentioned that altcoin miners have dealt with this exact problem. Putting an AIO water cooler on the core doesn't prevent the PCB from reaching temperatures hot enough to cause burns (and almost all of that heat is leaked from the GPU into the PCB)

That doesn't sound like a significant quantity of GPU heat ending up in the case rather than in the radiator?

Also mentioned that Arctic has decided to use PCB coolers instead of putting heatsinks on VRM's and RAM in their new lineup, so the PCB itself is obviously pretty decent as a heat-transfer medium. These PCB coolers not only remove heat generated by the VRM's and RAM, but also help prevent core heat from leeching through the PCB into surrounding components.

Its 2 x 290x in "one" card that's "water cooled" and "over clocked" with a "warranty"? You retarded? The alternative you've provided is 2 card (4 slots), slower (just look at [H] own review, the 295x2 is faster than crossfired 290x and 780ti in sli), runs hotter, throttles when temps gets intense (the 295x2 doesn't throttle unlike a crossfire 290x or the Titan Z), and a lot noisier (unless you do custom water cooling which cost $, voids warranty and easily installed incorrectly). You do save a lot of money going the 290x crossfire route but lose a lot of the benefits mentioned above.

Did you go back and read the thread? Because it looks like you still haven't.

1. As has been mentioned, anyone being "practical" would likely just get a slightly larger case and run two cards in SLI / Crossfire rather than get a dual-GPU card. One card vs. two cards becomes a moot point.

2. Water cooling is also a matter of preference, and you honestly couldn't pay me to use an AIO water cooler on ANYTHING (CPU, GPU, pre-installed, whatever. I don't like them, and I'm not alone there). This could actually be a negative aspect of the 295X2 for a lot of people.

3. In what way is it "over clocked"? Are you talking about OEM "factory OC" editions?

4. No idea why you're bringing up warranty, because two 290X's come with a warranty, just like one 295 X2...

5. You forgot to cite your source. Here's H's review. 295X2 doesn't really look worth the price premium over two 290x's at all, there.

6. On the topic of throttling, I have yet to see anyone actually post a link showing a Titan Z in an actual overheat/throttle state. I've seen it running on the warm side and running at base-clock, but never an actual throttle condition.

There's no way I would pay for a pair of 780tis and lose all the benefits of the 295x2 just to save $100. Let's not put the Titan Z in this discussion, it makes no sense whatsoever for a gamer.

Funny, two GTX 780 Ti's look like a better choice all-around.

GTX 780 Ti SLI offers you a cheaper setup that's significantly faster than the R9 295X2 in some instances. They come with Nvidia's already-quiet reference coolers, so the water cooler isn't needed to get around the noise levels produced by the stock heatsink AMD uses on the R9 290X. The reference coolers on the 780Ti channel all of their exhaust out of the case, so heat isn't any more of an issue than the 295X2 either.

What benefits does the R9 295X2 have over GTX 780 Ti SLI, exactly? It takes up a few fewer slots, but then you have to deal with mounting a radiator. Not sure it saves much space, overall.

 

[RamonGTP]

In that case... Allow me to retort with an equally retarded not to mention baseless statement...

The hybrid cooler on the 295X2 eliminates more heat from being dumped into the case than you might expect.

Sorry, but you aren't going to win any debate contests with that one. If your argument wasn't nonsensical, than neither is this.

 

[Unknown-One]

In that case... Allow me to retort with an equally retarded not to mention baseless statement...

The hybrid cooler on the 295X2 eliminates more heat from being dumped into the case than you might expect.

My statement was not baseless. I've cited my reasoning multiple times now, not sure how you keep missing it.

Your statement is admittedly baseless, however. Total nonsense as far as I can tell.

Sorry, but you aren't going to win any debate contests with that one. If your argument wasn't nonsensical, than neither is this.

You're the one attempting to contest statements with reasoning placed behind them with statements that, by your own admission, have none.

The basis for my argument makes perfect sense. What part are you having trouble with?
- Fact: Heat from the GPU core leeches into the PCB.
- Fact: Heat from the PCB has nowhere to go but into the case.
- Fact: Using an AIO water cooler to cool the core does not prevent some GPU heat from leeching into the PCB (Still enough heat to raise the PCB to scalding temperatures).
- Fact: There are legitimate heatsink manufacturers finding that cooling the PCB can be as effective as cooling chips directly.
- Fact: The 295X2 has a giant plate mounted to the PCB and various other components that's cooled by a fan. This will deal with some heat that originated in the GPUs.

All of this supports the idea that a not-insignificant amount of GPU heat is dealt with by the cooling plate on the R9 295X2 (and thus, dissipated into the case).

What supports your argument to the contrary?

 

[RamonGTP]

So my statement is baseless because you said so, and yours isn't because you said so. Even though we both used the same methodology, we just concluded differently.

Thanks for playing

 

[trungracingdev]

Never said I did. Note, I said "might expect" not "do expect."

You keep failing to read simple statements. It's getting annoying...


What's nonsensical about the notion that a cooler isn't as effective as well as you might expect from looking at it, exactly? That's a pretty simple notion.


Already mentioned that altcoin miners have dealt with this exact problem. Putting an AIO water cooler on the core doesn't prevent the PCB from reaching temperatures hot enough to cause burns (and almost all of that heat is leaked from the GPU into the PCB)

That doesn't sound like a significant quantity of GPU heat ending up in the case rather than in the radiator?

Also mentioned that Arctic has decided to use PCB coolers instead of putting heatsinks on VRM's and RAM in their new lineup, so the PCB itself is obviously pretty decent as a heat-transfer medium. These PCB coolers not only remove heat generated by the VRM's and RAM, but also help prevent core heat from leeching through the PCB into surrounding components.


Did you go back and read the thread? Because it looks like you still haven't.

1. As has been mentioned, anyone being "practical" would likely just get a slightly larger case and run two cards in SLI / Crossfire rather than get a dual-GPU card. One card vs. two cards becomes a moot point.

2. Water cooling is also a matter of preference, and you honestly couldn't pay me to use an AIO water cooler on ANYTHING (CPU, GPU, pre-installed, whatever. I don't like them, and I'm not alone there). This could actually be a negative aspect of the 295X2 for a lot of people.

3. In what way is it "over clocked"? Are you talking about OEM "factory OC" editions?

4. No idea why you're bringing up warranty, because two 290X's come with a warranty, just like one 295 X2...

5. You forgot to cite your source. Here's H's review. 295X2 doesn't really look worth the price premium over two 290x's at all, there.

6. On the topic of throttling, I have yet to see anyone actually post a link showing a Titan Z in an actual overheat/throttle state. I've seen it running on the warm side and running at base-clock, but never an actual throttle condition.


Funny, two GTX 780 Ti's look like a better choice all-around.

GTX 780 Ti SLI offers you a cheaper setup that's significantly faster than the R9 295X2 in some instances. They come with Nvidia's already-quiet reference coolers, so the water cooler isn't needed to get around the noise levels produced by the stock heatsink AMD uses on the R9 290X. The reference coolers on the 780Ti channel all of their exhaust out of the case, so heat isn't any more of an issue than the 295X2 either.

What benefits does the R9 295X2 have over GTX 780 Ti SLI, exactly? It takes up a few fewer slots, but then you have to deal with mounting a radiator. Not sure it saves much space, overall.

quote the [H] article

"All of the other games showed that there were distinct gameplay experience differences between all three configurations. The video card that provided the best experience all around was the new AMD Radeon R9 295X2. In every game, we were able to achieve the highest playable settings with it along with the fastest performance. "

I see now that you are mental and I wont waste anymore of my time with you. Have fun with your Titan Z (oh wait, you don't own one)......

 

[RamonGTP]

My statement was not baseless. I've cited my reasoning multiple times now, not sure how you keep missing it.

Your statement is admittedly baseless, however. Total nonsense as far as I can tell.


You're the one attempting to contest statements with reasoning placed behind them with statements that, by your own admission, have none.

The basis for my argument makes perfect sense. What part are you having trouble with?
- Fact: Heat from the GPU core leeches into the PCB.
- Fact: Heat from the PCB has nowhere to go but into the case.
- Fact: Using an AIO water cooler to cool the core does not prevent some GPU heat from leeching into the PCB (Still enough heat to raise the PCB to scalding temperatures).
- Fact: There are legitimate heatsink manufacturers finding that cooling the PCB can be as effective as cooling chips directly.
- Fact: The 295X2 has a giant plate mounted to the PCB and various other components that's cooled by a fan. This will deal with some heat that originated in the GPUs.

All of this supports the idea that a not-insignificant amount of GPU heat is dealt with by the cooling plate on the R9 295X2 (and thus, dissipated into the case).

What supports your argument to the contrary?

The heat dissipated into the case by the PCB is exactly what I would expect.

There... Your argument is null and void. Not that it ever wasn't, but I just made it official. Your ability to gauge my expectations need to be tuned further.

Look around you bud. How many different people have made comments to your mental state in this thread? How many have your back? It's not coincidence.

 

[Unknown-One]

quote the [H] article

"All of the other games showed that there were distinct gameplay experience differences between all three configurations. The video card that provided the best experience all around was the new AMD Radeon R9 295X2. In every game, we were able to achieve the highest playable settings with it along with the fastest performance. "

In what way does that impact what I said? I said "GTX 780 Ti SLI offers you a cheaper setup that's significantly faster than the R9 295X2 in some instances."

SOME instances. I did not say "all," nor did I even say "most."

Which is still a true statement, some of their benchmarks show the GTX 780 Ti SLI setup clearly ahead of the other options. That quote is less than 100% accurate when it says the 295X2 provided "the fastest performance" in every game.

I see now that you are mental and I wont waste anymore of my time with you. Have fun with your Titan Z (oh wait, you don't own one)......

You're the one who clearly hasn't read the thread. I've been saying the Titan Z is overpriced since my first post in here, so of course I don't own one (and don't plan on owning one unless the price comes waaaaay down).

Please try reading before making baseless attacks on people. It's getting tiring repeating everything over-and-over for people who seem to simply refuse to read.

 

[Unknown-One]

So my statement is baseless because you said so, and yours isn't because you said so.

No.

Your statement is baseless because YOU said it was baseless right from the get-go. You also failed to back it with reasoning or facts in any way.
Mine isn't baseless because I actually provided some information to back it up.

The heat dissipated into the case by the PCB is exactly what I would expect.

There... Your argument is null and void.

No, that just means that you agree with my point.

That a not-insignificant portion of the heat generated by the GPU's on the 295X2 is radiated into the case through the PCB (and associated cooling) rather than handled directly by the water blocks and radiator.

Glad we've reached an agreement, especially on such an obvious point.

Your ability to gauge my expectations need to be tuned further.

I never said I knew your absolute expectations. We've already been over this. Please read.

I said it MIGHT be more than you expect... but since since the additional heat radiation is in-line with what you expect, we're in agreement. Good show.

 

[wonderfield]

Already mentioned that altcoin miners have dealt with this exact problem. Putting an AIO water cooler on the core doesn't prevent the PCB from reaching temperatures hot enough to cause burns (and almost all of that heat is leaked from the GPU into the PCB) That doesn't sound like a significant quantity of GPU heat ending up in the case rather than in the radiator?

I don't know what amount of heat energy is required to raise the temperature of PCB to the point where it could cause burns (as dubious as that claim seems to me).

I'm not going to deny that, absolutely, some of the 295X2's heat is dissipated not through the water blocks and the heatsinks, but to what extent is that? What is an estimate of that, and based on what data is that estimate derived? Furthermore, is that really enough to be a point of concern for any system with case fans exhausting that heat?

 

[pcjunkie]

You guys I actually think Unknown-One is right on one particular point. If given the choice between a free Titan Z and a free 295X2 I would hands down take the Titan Z. Then I would go and sell it online for S3,000 and buy myself a 295X2 then pocket the extra $1,500. I see he actually is the smart one!

 

[Unknown-One]

I don't know what amount of heat energy is required to raise the temperature of PCB to the point where it could cause burns (as dubious as that claim seems to me).

I personally burned myself on my HD 6970's PCB while mining for dogecoin on it (the PCB had to be around 50c). The core will heat the PCB until it becomes saturated.

I'm not going to deny that, absolutely, some of the 295X2's heat is dissipated not through the water blocks and the heatsinks, but to what extent is that? What is an estimate of that, and based on what data is that estimate derived? Furthermore, is that really enough to be a point of concern for any system with case fans exhausting that heat?

We'd need someone with a 295X2 and an IR thermal probe to determine that for sure.

You guys I actually think Unknown-One is right on one particular point. If given the choice between a free Titan Z and a free 295X2 I would hands down take the Titan Z. Then I would go and sell it online for S3,000 and buy myself a 295X2 then pocket the extra $1,500. I see he actually is the smart one!

Why not sell it and get a proper dual-card setup

 

[RamonGTP]

No.

Your statement is baseless because YOU said it was baseless right from the get-go. You also failed to back it with reasoning or facts in any way.
Mine isn't baseless because I actually provided some information to back it up.

I said it was baseless because I provided exactly what you did. Absolutely nothing but misguided opinion, except I did it satirically to illustrate your ridulousness... But even that, was apparently over your head.

 

[LordEC911]

We'd need someone with a 295X2 and an IR thermal probe to determine that for sure.

Definitely be sure to have this huge argument before actually looking at proof...

R9-295x2 FLIR

ASUS GTX780 Strix FLIR

Backplate on the GTX780 gets just as warm as the 295x2 PCB.
Multiple points visible through GTX780 backplate are just as warm as the VRM area of 295x2 with many areas even warmer, reaching +100C.

 

[Unknown-One]

Backplate on the GTX780 gets just as warm as the 295x2 PCB.
Multiple points visible through GTX780 backplate are just as warm as the VRM area of 295x2 with many areas even warmer, reaching +100C.

I never said that a GTX 780 would radiate less heat from its backplate than an R9 295X2... so I'm not sure what point you're making here

That does back up my point about the 295X2 developing significant PCB heat, though. Those water blocks don't appear to make much of a dent in PCB temperatures at all.

Also shows that, yes, these PCBs can get hot enough to cause burns.

I said it was baseless because I provided exactly what you did.

No, you provided nothing... at all... and flat-out said your own statement was baseless...

Absolutely nothing but misguided opinion, except I did it satirically to illustrate your ridulousness... But even that, was apparently over your head.

It didn't go over my head, you're simply wrong.

I did not provide misguided opinion, I provided a list of the facts upon which my argument is based. Nothing ridiculous about it, especially since you haven't actually managed to shoot any of said reasoning down (you just keep trying to dismiss it... but I'll happily restate it until you address it or agree with it).

 

[wonderfield]

This seems like an awful lot of bloviation for something that a reasonable figure can't even be put to.

 

[Unknown-One]

This seems like an awful lot of bloviation for something that a reasonable figure can't even be put to.

What figure did LordEC911's link not cover? It has a full thermal map of a R9 295X2 under load. The PCB around the cores gets up to ~60c. That's all heat NOT being carried away by the water blocks.

 

[trungracingdev]

One guy went FULL RETARD to defend the Titan Z. Wonder who it could be?

 

[RamonGTP]

I never said that a GTX 780 would radiate less heat from its backplate than an R9 295X2... so I'm not sure what point you're making here

That does back up my point about the 295X2 developing significant PCB heat, though. Those water blocks don't appear to make much of a dent in PCB temperatures at all.

Also shows that, yes, these PCBs can get hot enough to cause burns.


No, you provided nothing... at all... and flat-out said your own statement was baseless...


It didn't go over my head, you're simply wrong.

I did not provide misguided opinion, I provided a list of the facts upon which my argument is based. Nothing ridiculous about it, especially since you haven't actually managed to shoot any of said reasoning down (you just keep trying to dismiss it... but I'll happily restate it until you address it or agree with it).

How can I be wrong? I'm telling you what my expectations are. You are so lost it's hilarious

 

[Unknown-One]

One guy went FULL RETARD to defend the Titan Z. Wonder who it could be?

Almost nobody actually attacked the Titan Z, actually. Nearly all the attacks have been centered around the Titan Z's pricing.

Then someone got hung up on me making the simple claim that the 295X2 might dump more heat into a case than one would expect. Apparently people are REALLY defensive of the 295's water cooler

 

[LordEC911]

I never said that a GTX 780 would radiate less heat from its backplate than an R9 295X2... so I'm not sure what point you're making here

That does back up my point about the 295X2 developing significant PCB heat, though. Those water blocks don't appear to make much of a dent in PCB temperatures at all.

Also shows that, yes, these PCBs can get hot enough to cause burns.
.

Well seeing as how you are trying to compare a product to another product that hasn't been reviewed... I am using with the closest comparison we have.

Yeah... no difference whatsoever...

140F? Gets hotter than that in my car. I'm surprised I have any skin left...

 

[Unknown-One]

How can I be wrong? I'm telling you what my expectations are. You are so lost it's hilarious

You're wrong that my statement was baseless (clearly isn't, has been explained multiple times).
You're also wrong that you provided the same level of information that I did when making your statement. (You clearly didn't, and even you said as much).

The you went on to say "The heat dissipated into the case by the PCB is exactly what I would expect."
- The heat-output is high.
- I argued that it would be high.
- It's "exactly what you expect," so you expected it to be high.
- You agreed with me.

Not lost at all.

 

[Unknown-One]

Yeah... no difference whatsoever...

I did say (quite a while ago) that better cooling would help reduce the heat the PCB soaks up.

There was obviously going to be some difference in PCB temperature vs. air cooling, but like I had originally put forth yesterday, not enough to eliminate GPU heat getting to the PCB and heating it up substantially.

So far, this all looks in-line with my expectations.

140F? Gets hotter than that in my car. I'm surprised I have any skin left...

Contact with a 140 F surface is hot enough to cause 2nd degree burns in 3 seconds. Touching a PCB that hot would cause immediate pain.

The air in your car is not a surface, and multiple mechanisms protect you from immediate danger in a hot-air environment.