cageymaru
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Youtube purchases Twitch.tv for 1 billion.
- Thread starter cageymaru
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Not actually that hard to believe. Twitch is the only place to catch official streams for International, League tournaments, Starcraft 2 tournaments, PAX panel coverage, and many other things. Twitch pulls in a ton of money from advertising. On average per month people watch a combined 64.2 million hours of content which averages out to an hour and a half for each of the 43 million unique visitors. It's the 4th largest source of traffic on the web as well. Twitch is freaking huge.
cageymaru
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When I originally heard the 1 billion dollar figure I thought that it was an extremely low figure. I could see Twitch.tv adapting and building onto it's streaming services with other technology. A website where you can experience other things that you don't have the money or time to do would have extraordinary potential.
There are games that you can play with the community already by issuing commands into Twitch chat. One such is Pokemon and Twitch chat was able to beat the game by working together. Imagine if a streamer has an Oculus Rift VR set on and you can tap into his feed and help interact within a game's world in virtual reality. That's why I think one billion is much too low as a price.
octoberasian
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As a friend posted on Facebook about this with his fears about the new copyright rules on Youtube, this is my reply in the [H] news forum post on this:
Let's not forget the new copyright infringement rules in place on Youtube. Can you imagine the number of streamers that use licensed music instead of game music for intros, outros, and during chat and gaming sessions that will get C&D (ceased and desist) orders, or get their channels taken down for violating these new rules?
It's going to be a fucking mess.
Not just licensed music, but game background music possibly getting streamers banned or their channels taken down for violating these copyright rules.
Let's not forget the new copyright infringement rules in place on Youtube. Can you imagine the number of streamers that use licensed music instead of game music for intros, outros, and during chat and gaming sessions that will get C&D (ceased and desist) orders, or get their channels taken down for violating these new rules?
It's going to be a fucking mess.
Not just licensed music, but game background music possibly getting streamers banned or their channels taken down for violating these copyright rules.
Let's not go weeping into a pillow just yet. Assuming Google does announce an acquisition, Twitch is not suddenly going to turn into Youtube. And if copyright holders were interested in seeking C&D's against the use of their music on Twitch, they'd already be doing it - they wouldn't care who the owners happened to be.
I don't think its feasible or even of interest to Google to realtime analyze hundreds of thousands, and eventually millions of live streams for signatures of copyrighted music. Static, hosted videos are one thing; live streams are quite another - and a moving target. The only exception I could see would be the archived videos of past streams, but I see Google dragging their feet as long as possible on any kind of automated scanning system if copyright holders were to suddenly get interested in filing claims against those. Its not something Google is interested in seeing happen because it doesn't benefit them.
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cageymaru
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Yes, if a game uses copyrighted music within the game then you have to dub another sound over it for Youtube. So Twitch streamers would have to do the same thing as streaming copyrighted music to the world would be considered a performance and not fair use.
cageymaru
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I can almost guarantee you that when Google owns it one will be put in place.
Dreamerbydesign
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I can just see it now... Twitch will be absorbed and re opened as a YouTube branded service... Like YouTube live games or something...
Wrong. You're thinking of what a Microsoft exec would want to do: slap "Xbox" in front of it and wear everyones patience real thin. And probably neuter the PS4 support
Thankfully Google Isnt that braindead. This is a good fit, and Twitch turned down MS and went with YouTube for the opportunity to piggyback a proven global video delivery infrastructure. Twitch CEO stated a big reason was they currently couldn't keep up with their explosive growth, and more venture capital wasn't going to solve their immediate problems.
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I believe the guys that made Twitch Plays Pokemon are working on something inspired by that experience. Supposedly a game that is influenced by Twitch stream viewers.
Ahh, found it. Here it is: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1451486150/choice-chamber/
Comixbooks
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I remember Justin TV not be confused with that twat Justin Tiberlake who made a fool of himself last night.
jonneymendoza
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Justin timberlake is fast becoming a legend. he is a fantastic singer and artist all round
wonderfield
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A proven poor global video delivery infrastructure.
Yeah, ok. History shows the opposite, and we will see. The Borg absorbs all.
Do you have a specific case in point of "history showing the opposite", or just basing that on a feeling? I remember the people complaining on engadget back in 2006 when Google bought Youtube (only a year after Youtube began, mind you), all worried that Youtube would be folded into Google Video and "it would, like, suck", and ofcourse that never happened - they proceeded to grow it into the juggernaut it is today. They seem to understand brand value.
It was a matter of time until someone bought it -- would you rather it had been Facebook? Microsoft? Apple? EA? *shudder*
Say good bye to music while streaming. I can see streams suddenly go offline with a message, "This user has violated the property rights of Viacom".
I really don't approve of this purchase but then again, I'm not mad at youtube either as it clearly is a business move -- a great one. Esports is gonna get huge once the generation of gamers have kids and allow their kids to game even more.
I really don't approve of this purchase but then again, I'm not mad at youtube either as it clearly is a business move -- a great one. Esports is gonna get huge once the generation of gamers have kids and allow their kids to game even more.
Technically they shouldn't be streaming copyrighted music in the first place. No matter how stupid the laws are it is still a violation of copyright. Twitch will already pull streams that stream copyrighted material like movies or music, at least as long as they're reported. So it's not like things would change, though Google might look for a way to improve the reporting and monitoring systems in place. An automated report and pull system really wouldn't work for streams (I'm not even sure if the current system works for streams on Youtube itself)
Godmachine
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They NEVER pull streams for copyright music , you are dead wrong about that. Technically they should also pull streams where anyone uses an HDMI splitter as well to bypass HDCP streaming issues ( even with the latest PS4 update it has issues ) but they don't. I've never seen anyone dumb enough to stream a movie.
I believe Twitch's lawyers hammered out a way to avoid being sued for things like what I've mentioned otherwise do you really think the copyright monster would just "ignore" almost everyone on Twitch who streams game play while listening to their music? The RIAA/MPAA has been known to sue dead people who've never used a personal computer during their lifetime...
What will happen is simple , Twitch will no longer archive broadcasts since YouTube can take care of that , anything archived with copyright music will likely be flagged by the Content ID bot on YouTube which will create a lot of panic in the beginning. Twitch streamers (especially successful ones) will make much more money (going from 2-3k viewers concurrently to 50k+ will help that along thanks to the massive size of YouTube's user base) but will likely have a much stricter rule set from Google on what they can and can not do, and they will be a much bigger target for copyright issues down the line. Google won't fuck with the company probably for a few years though and Google + is dead so no worries there.
However a competitor will pop up eventually as they always do and some will weather the storm while others will jump ship.
$1 Billion dollars is chump change for Google to lockdown a competitor ( in terms of live streaming ) and remain firmly the monopoly in streaming user content like this.
lilbabycat
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I see small time streamers getting ousted and treated unfairly, while sponsored and big names getting preferential treatment (just like YT).
sharknice
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I don't, have any examples?
octoberasian
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Future of Twitch.tv?
I have friends that are regular streamers on Twitch and post gaming "vlogs" (video blogs) on Youtube, including playthroughs and game reviews. Several have had C&D orders from Youtube because the game music in the background violated a copyright. Playing a licensed song for an intro and outro for their casting/streaming have also received copyright violations even if the snippet was less than 30 seconds.
I do not want to see Twitch devolve into that no matter what technology or benefits it'd bring to the video streaming site.
I have friends that are regular streamers on Twitch and post gaming "vlogs" (video blogs) on Youtube, including playthroughs and game reviews. Several have had C&D orders from Youtube because the game music in the background violated a copyright. Playing a licensed song for an intro and outro for their casting/streaming have also received copyright violations even if the snippet was less than 30 seconds.
I do not want to see Twitch devolve into that no matter what technology or benefits it'd bring to the video streaming site.
It would "devolve" to that by the nature of growing and becoming a higher profile operation, which was inevitable. Irrelevant who owns them, the media companies are happy to sue whatever owner it would happen to be. If you really think the C&D's on Youtube are because "google is evil" and other such childishness I see in comment sections about this topic, your understanding of the legal realities Google deals with when it comes to playing copyright cop needs some work. It's certainly not their preference and they get nothing out of it, all they really care about is being able to deliver ads.
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The sale is not even finalized and announced, only rumored. So there are no details. But there won't be any integration because it wouldn't make sense. Twitch will NOT be folded into Youtube, it would remain as separate. There certainly won't be any renaming happening.
Godmachine
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Anyone without Partner status is going to be "Wild Westing" it really. Without a Partner to back you up in case of a lawsuit or contract issue you'll be fucked. Getting Partner will also become harder and require even more concurrent viewers.
Anyone seriously considering making a short term , part time or especially long term career from Twitch streaming needs to build up a concurrent set of about 500-800 viewers during every stream to get that Partner status quick .. unless you have a nice large set of tits in which case you'll get Partnered up in about a month of streaming. Its pathetic how quickly girls with busty chests get Partner status even with like 200+ viewers concurrently during broadcasting. But sex sells and its a big part of Twitch now. Most women wear anything that "accents" their natural features (not everyone though , I'm not trying to be sexist just pointing out the obvious).
So Twitch streamers without such assets have about 2 years before a real crackdown and change begins.
flashoverride
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Going to be interesting to see how many competitors pop up. I don't think twitch was the only game in town, just the biggest in that niche... now that folks see some dollar signs, we'll see a few more scale it up. Would be interesting to see an XBox branded one, wonder if that's in the works. Wonder if Twitch gave MS any notice or not.
I think you'll see quite the opposite, YouTube has been partnering people that aren't even applying while Twitch seems to be more stringent on requirements that need to be met to become a partner.
I think you'll see the partner flood gates come wide open and subscriber buttons will run rampent, and really why shouldn't this be the case. Wouldn't you stream a little more if you thought you could make a little scratch while you're at it? Doing so will generate more revenue for Google/Twitch at the same time and this is currently Google's view on YouTube partnerships.
I'm sure there will still be some requirements, but I would bet that the requirements will reduce drastically to increase the number of people streaming content to generate money for Google.
That's if the deal goes through that is ...
octoberasian
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I understand copyright issues and realities quite well. For Google and Youtube, it's a matter between generating ad revenue or losing it.
I prefer a more "laissez-faire" approach.
They can't expect every streamer to suddenly mute their game because the game music violates some copyright law in more than two countries. Should streamers suddenly start resorting to royalty-free music? Or, start composing their own?
What if I'm humming to the music of the game, will that get my channel banned?
It's gotten too far, too paranoid and too ridiculous to even think about policing the thousands if not millions of users out there streaming and recording games. The users-- both the viewers and streamers-- are their bread-and-butter, their income generator. Alienate them with overly strict rules and policies, and expect viewership to drop and users moving on to other sites that are a bit more "laissez-faire" to their users.
I'm sorry, but if I'm going to stream my favorite game on Twitch or do a playthrough and post it on Youtube, I'm going to be sure that the background music can be heard. I don't play many games muted, but for the games that have worthwhile music and sounds in it, I'm not going to mute it to satisfy the greedy ass of some corporation when I'm appreciating their game and not exploiting it.
cageymaru
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I've been collecting video game soundtracks because I heard them on Twitch. I hadn't even contemplated doing such a thing in my life before. I actually bought some regular music also that I heard on Twitch. Hadn't bought an album in a decade I guess. But it fit the mood of the game I was watching at the time and stuck in my head. Hell I actually pay a monthly fee for Pandora because some guy was jamming some tunes from it on Twitch.
One day the MPAA, RIAA, etc will realize that the reason that we spend money on music is usually because it inspires us in as social manner. In this case it was because I was hanging out in a 10,000 man listening party on a video game streaming website.
cageymaru
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Content ID on Youtube flags videos of the game Aqua Kitty - Milk Mine Defender.
The developer in this thread expresses his disdain for not having control over the flags. The musician that created the soundtrack for the game wanted to sell copies on Amazon and that got the music auto flagged by his publisher. The music publisher Zimbalam is dead set on collecting royalties for the game via Youtube even though the game developer has repeatedly told them that he doesn't want it flagged. Since the music publisher hasn't responded to requests to have the flags removed, the Content ID flag stays.
If the developer of a game can't get around a Youtube Content ID flag; what would a streamer on Twitch do to avoid getting banned? I don't even want to get into songs that are banned in some countries and not in others. How are you supposed to know as a streamer that some guys can't see your stream because they are banned from hearing the game's soundtrack?
The developer in this thread expresses his disdain for not having control over the flags. The musician that created the soundtrack for the game wanted to sell copies on Amazon and that got the music auto flagged by his publisher. The music publisher Zimbalam is dead set on collecting royalties for the game via Youtube even though the game developer has repeatedly told them that he doesn't want it flagged. Since the music publisher hasn't responded to requests to have the flags removed, the Content ID flag stays.
If the developer of a game can't get around a Youtube Content ID flag; what would a streamer on Twitch do to avoid getting banned? I don't even want to get into songs that are banned in some countries and not in others. How are you supposed to know as a streamer that some guys can't see your stream because they are banned from hearing the game's soundtrack?