http://www.newsfactor.com/news/Toshiba-s-New-DVD-Format/story.xhtml?story_id=1020072S2XFI
The talks aren't going anywhere between the two.
The talks aren't going anywhere between the two.
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Xbox 360: Why would they use a DVD ROM?
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doublejbass
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WickedAngel said:
And from the PS2 to the PS3?
My POINT is you're assuming a linear evolution of game design in a PC-oriented way. You're unable to conceive of other usage for the space, so you feel that it's unnecessary. My point is to assume linear evolution with no leaps into new areas is boorish.
My "little formula" is based on the MOST conservative historical evidence. You're assuming even more, in what you're assuming WON'T happen.
I don't understand this at all. The point was, the requirements of a modern game were more than double the requirements of a modern game from the past generation, since 1.5GB is approximately double 700MB. I'm not debating what Nintendo achieved with the disc, but Capcom required approximately four times the capacity of the previous generation's media to achieve the most detailed environments seen yet. I wonder what they could have accomplished had the game been designed for an 8.4GB medium.
No, but it was a DVD9, which means it couldn't fit on a DVD5.
PopeKevinI
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azzkikur said:
I could care less, so long as I don't have to swap mid-game. I remember loading games from 10+ floppy disks, so the five CDs of Baldur's Gate (which came on DVD, but I couldn't find it at the time) didn't bother me at all. Do a full load, never have to swap CDs because all the media is on the HDD, and be happy
doublejbass
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Right, being able to load the whole game onto the system makes concerns over multiple discs useless. However, that opportunity does not routinely exist for consoles.
doublejbass
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Tiny said:
I would be willing to subscribe to that, since I don't know how big Halo 2 was, for one thing. I wonder what the 6% of XBox games that need two layers were.
Phone rings.....
"Hello Sony, this is Bill over at MS, can i speak to CEO xxxx
Hi xxxxx, this is Bill, i know we are making competing products, but ive been thinking about using "Your" Blu-ray technology in my machines to make them even more powerful and competetive. So how much will you charge me per license?"
"Hello Sony, this is Bill over at MS, can i speak to CEO xxxx
Hi xxxxx, this is Bill, i know we are making competing products, but ive been thinking about using "Your" Blu-ray technology in my machines to make them even more powerful and competetive. So how much will you charge me per license?"
http://www.macworld.com/news/2005/05/19/tdk/index.php
[QUOTE="Macworld]TDK Corp. has developed a prototype Blu-ray Disc that can store twice as much data, and record it at twice the speed, as existing Blu-ray Discs.
The disc, unveiled at a TDK exhibition in Tokyo this week, can record data at 72Mbps (bits per second), double the 36Mbps rate for current Blu-ray Discs. TDK increased the write speed by using a more powerful laser and making some changes to the material of the discs recording layer, said Nobuyuki Koike a spokesman for TDK.
The first generation of Blu-ray discs can already record data faster than it is transmitted in high-definition TV broadcasts, so the faster recording speed isnt needed there. But it will be advantageous when content is copied from a hard-disk drive to an optical disc for backup or archiving, said Koike.
The Blu-ray Disc Association, which is responsible for the disc formats, standardized a 2X version of the read-only BD-R disc and rewritable BD-RE disc in the latter half of 2004, said Taro Takamine, a spokesman for Sony Corp. in Tokyo. Sony is one of the major backers of the format.
To achieve the higher capacity, TDK added two additional recording layers to the disc to take it up to four layers. Blu-ray Disc stores 25GB on each recording layer and the standard currently includes single layer and dual layer versions.
No standard exists for four-layer discs and Koike said TDK is proposing its prototype to the Blu-ray Disc Association. Sonys Takamine said the current format road map calls for four-layer discs to debut in the market during 2007.
TDKs development comes hot on the heels of an announcement by Toshiba Corp. that it has developed a three-layer HD-DVD disc capable of holding up to 45GB of information. HD-DVD is a competing format to Blu-ray Disc and HD-DVDs maximum capacity of 30GB had been viewed unfavorably against Blu-ray Discs maximum 50GB capacity.
According to the Blu-ray Disc Association, a single-layer 25GB disc can typically hold 135 minutes of high-definition video in MPEG-2 format, with room for a further two hours of standard-definition video.
The recent Toshiba announcement brought the formats much closer together and made capacity less of an issue for the Blu-ray Disc camp to trumpet when promoting their technology. The development of a 100GB disc by TDK will likely open up this avenue for the Blu-ray Disc supporters again.[/QUOTE]
We live in a woderful time. Soon we'll have box sets on single discs. The "LOTR" trilogy on 1 disc. A virtually unlimited world to "jack" cars in for the next Grand Theft Auto.
[QUOTE="Macworld]TDK Corp. has developed a prototype Blu-ray Disc that can store twice as much data, and record it at twice the speed, as existing Blu-ray Discs.
The disc, unveiled at a TDK exhibition in Tokyo this week, can record data at 72Mbps (bits per second), double the 36Mbps rate for current Blu-ray Discs. TDK increased the write speed by using a more powerful laser and making some changes to the material of the discs recording layer, said Nobuyuki Koike a spokesman for TDK.
The first generation of Blu-ray discs can already record data faster than it is transmitted in high-definition TV broadcasts, so the faster recording speed isnt needed there. But it will be advantageous when content is copied from a hard-disk drive to an optical disc for backup or archiving, said Koike.
The Blu-ray Disc Association, which is responsible for the disc formats, standardized a 2X version of the read-only BD-R disc and rewritable BD-RE disc in the latter half of 2004, said Taro Takamine, a spokesman for Sony Corp. in Tokyo. Sony is one of the major backers of the format.
To achieve the higher capacity, TDK added two additional recording layers to the disc to take it up to four layers. Blu-ray Disc stores 25GB on each recording layer and the standard currently includes single layer and dual layer versions.
No standard exists for four-layer discs and Koike said TDK is proposing its prototype to the Blu-ray Disc Association. Sonys Takamine said the current format road map calls for four-layer discs to debut in the market during 2007.
TDKs development comes hot on the heels of an announcement by Toshiba Corp. that it has developed a three-layer HD-DVD disc capable of holding up to 45GB of information. HD-DVD is a competing format to Blu-ray Disc and HD-DVDs maximum capacity of 30GB had been viewed unfavorably against Blu-ray Discs maximum 50GB capacity.
According to the Blu-ray Disc Association, a single-layer 25GB disc can typically hold 135 minutes of high-definition video in MPEG-2 format, with room for a further two hours of standard-definition video.
The recent Toshiba announcement brought the formats much closer together and made capacity less of an issue for the Blu-ray Disc camp to trumpet when promoting their technology. The development of a 100GB disc by TDK will likely open up this avenue for the Blu-ray Disc supporters again.[/QUOTE]
We live in a woderful time. Soon we'll have box sets on single discs. The "LOTR" trilogy on 1 disc. A virtually unlimited world to "jack" cars in for the next Grand Theft Auto.
WickedAngel
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^^^
The big question; when will it be affordable?
The big question; when will it be affordable?
Looks like the guys at Anandtech think Microsoft may have screwed the pooch also:
http://www.anandtech.com/news/shownews.aspx?i=24277
Anandtech said:
http://www.anandtech.com/news/shownews.aspx?i=24277
WickedAngel
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Halo 2 is about 2.8gb.
Remember, these are the days of maximum hype. It is not coincidence at all that news of 100GB Blu-Ray disc is being heard shortly after Sony's announcement of Blu-Ray support in the PS3. That being said, of course Sony is going to use Blu-Ray in the PS3, they'd look like idiots if they didn't because Blu-Ray is their baby, they developed it. Sony using Blu-Ray in the PS3 was never a serious question, it was a given.
Now with the announcement of TDK and the 100GB Blu-Ray disc, you have to remember that what TDK developed is non-standard, it hasn't been adopted by the Blu-Ray standards group, and they only just submitted it this week. So it's highly likely that the Blu-Ray drive Sony ships in the PS3 won't support 100GB discs.
Now on to Xbox360, just as it was a given that Sony would use the Blu-Ray disc, it was also a given that Microsoft won't. There are two primary reasons for this. First is that Microsoft is supporting the development of HD-DVD, and second is because Blu-Ray = Sony. Microsoft is not going to license and pay royalties to it's biggest rival in the console business to use a disc that is incompatible with the standard that it is helping to develop. If Microsoft ships anything other than a DVD-ROM, you can be pretty sure it won't be Blu-Ray, but will be HD-DVD. The only exception to this would be if Blu-Ray and HD-DVD really did come to a format compromise, but that is looking less and less likely every day.
And finally for the practical issues of capacity. I don't doubt that some developers would (and in several years many will) find a way to make use of 15GB, 25GB, 30GB, or even 50GB of space on an HD-DVD or Blu-Ray disc. However the reality is that up until now, whether PC or Console, none of them have even made use of the full capacity of DVD9 yet. I know there are people here saying that large capacity would mean that we could do away with compression. But you really don't want to do that. Not all compression is bad, particularly if it is lossless compression. Not only does compression allow you to more efficiently use storage space, but it also allows you to more efficiently use bandwidth for moving that data around, from disk and between memory and video. And of course these is the issue of cost. Neither Blu-Ray or HD-DVD hardware exists in any meaningful quantity right now. For MS to ship the Xbox360 before Xmas this year, they have to go with what's available now. Trying to cram 1st generation HD-DVD drives in these consoles would be a huge risk, and would drive up the cost significantly. Going with DVD-ROM for a Xmas '05 launch simply makes sense. And with those USB2.0 ports on the Xbox360, adding a HD-DVD later won't be that big of a deal, assuming it doesn't cost an arm and a leg.
Now with the announcement of TDK and the 100GB Blu-Ray disc, you have to remember that what TDK developed is non-standard, it hasn't been adopted by the Blu-Ray standards group, and they only just submitted it this week. So it's highly likely that the Blu-Ray drive Sony ships in the PS3 won't support 100GB discs.
Now on to Xbox360, just as it was a given that Sony would use the Blu-Ray disc, it was also a given that Microsoft won't. There are two primary reasons for this. First is that Microsoft is supporting the development of HD-DVD, and second is because Blu-Ray = Sony. Microsoft is not going to license and pay royalties to it's biggest rival in the console business to use a disc that is incompatible with the standard that it is helping to develop. If Microsoft ships anything other than a DVD-ROM, you can be pretty sure it won't be Blu-Ray, but will be HD-DVD. The only exception to this would be if Blu-Ray and HD-DVD really did come to a format compromise, but that is looking less and less likely every day.
And finally for the practical issues of capacity. I don't doubt that some developers would (and in several years many will) find a way to make use of 15GB, 25GB, 30GB, or even 50GB of space on an HD-DVD or Blu-Ray disc. However the reality is that up until now, whether PC or Console, none of them have even made use of the full capacity of DVD9 yet. I know there are people here saying that large capacity would mean that we could do away with compression. But you really don't want to do that. Not all compression is bad, particularly if it is lossless compression. Not only does compression allow you to more efficiently use storage space, but it also allows you to more efficiently use bandwidth for moving that data around, from disk and between memory and video. And of course these is the issue of cost. Neither Blu-Ray or HD-DVD hardware exists in any meaningful quantity right now. For MS to ship the Xbox360 before Xmas this year, they have to go with what's available now. Trying to cram 1st generation HD-DVD drives in these consoles would be a huge risk, and would drive up the cost significantly. Going with DVD-ROM for a Xmas '05 launch simply makes sense. And with those USB2.0 ports on the Xbox360, adding a HD-DVD later won't be that big of a deal, assuming it doesn't cost an arm and a leg.
Komataguri
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WickedAngel said:
Its not rumors, sony has stated that they are using Blu-ray in PS3.
Gamespot has it on their site, and its in the 2+ hour long PS3 pressconferance they have avalible for streaming on their website.
JethroXP said:
This is the best explination I have heard yet. Very un-bias. Plus he is right, compression helps move data faster on slower 'mechanical' devices, expecialy when you have 3 3.2ghz power pc processors to decode that information... Am I the only one who sees one crittical flaw on sonys part, 256mb of ram? I don't care how much larger blue-ray can hold, if you can only load 256mb worth of game data and textures. Your textures are going to be limited to the amount that is left...
Komataguri said:
Did anyone else watch that press conference? I was really surprised, the presenters all seemed stiff, and you could tell that they were all reading off the teleprompter. Then there was that film clip of the "Digital Decade" that left me asking, "WTF was that?". It was just so random, even the audiance was silent afterward, because they we probably asking themselves the same thing, "WTF was that?". Then there was slide after slide of raw numbers, followed by the ducks demonstration. I don't know, it really looked to me like Sony was pretty scattered, as if they are simply tossing all the latest gadgets they can into their box, and hoping that it gels and resonates with end users. To me, Xbox360 has a much more coherent vision.
Yep, I watched the whole thingJethroXP said:
. It was pretty terrible. A couple of the guys were impossible to understand, and all of them where reading from a teleprompter the entire time. I wasn't impressed at all. The kept hyping up these demo videos, and then showing cut scenes, then expecting people to be excited. I don't think they showed any real gameplay footage at all. The crowd was pretty much silent the entire time, probably thinking "What the hell is this supposed to prove?" I did like the part with Alfred Molina though, very realistic looking. Overall, it was very poorly done, and you could tell it was very rushed. I think the PS3 has a lot of potential, none of which was shown during there little presentation.
then look at the nintedo conf. they showed very little, didnt show what wasnt ready, and people are all excited about it.azzkikur said:Yep, I watched the whole thing
Overall, it was very poorly done, and you could tell it was very rushed. I think the PS3 has a lot of potential, none of which was shown during there little presentation.
Komataguri
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JethroXP said:
They were a little stiff [ The Japanese guys atleast, The worse their english the more "Stiff " they seemed ]
But I thought the presentation was quite nice and played out...even tho I onoly watched about 1 and a half hours of it...cause it was fuggin long
On the Blu-Ray subject matter... Sony does own several movie studios which will also most likely be releasing movies on and supporting Blu-Ray... and how convinient, through the sale of PS3, there will be millions of households out there with consoles that can play Blu-Ray Movies... Sony is definately forcing Blu-Ray down the consumers throat... The fact that they will have an installed user base of Blu-Ray by the time movies get released will give them a huge advantage over HD-DVDs. Toshiba and HD-DVD will have to rely on consumers purchasing a dedicated HD-DVD player... Many of these people (early adopters) are "tech savvy" people who will most likely already have a next gen console, i.e. PS3 which will already play Blu-Ray...
cisobe said:
The competition against Blu-Ray is not as weak as you make it out to be (or Sony's position as strong). The bulk of DVD players in the market are standalone players and not PS2's, and if the current rumoured pricing for PS3 is even remotely true, I doubt saturation will be enough to sway a decision or come soon enough (PS3 won't be released till next spring in Japan, and who knows when for the rest of the world). I agree with earlier comments that MS can throw an addon drive for whatever format wins (and still be cheaper than the PS3 w/o a harddrive). MS can take more of a bath on their hardware than Sony can, since Sony isn't quite the cash cow they used to be.
Also some info on HDDVD culled this from Cnet article:
HD DVD entertainment partners stood up to support the HD DVD format Thursday and announced movie and TV series titles that would be available on HD DVD discs by the end of the year. Paramount Home Entertainment, Warner Home Video, Universal Studios Home Entertainment, HBO and New Line Cinema said that about 100 titles, including the "Harry Potter" movies, the "Batman," "Superman," "E.R.," "The West Wing" and "The Sopranos" franchises, would be available on HD DVD discs.
"The real-world benefits (of HD DVD) are apparent and obvious," said Jim Cardwell, president of Warner Home Video. Cardwell added that rapid time-to-market and dependability were significant factors in choosing to go with HD DVD.
HD DVD is based on technology similar to that of DVD, which can reduce the time and cost of manufacturing discs and recorders, according to HD DVD supporters.
I'm not too sure people will really go for an add-on optical drive... It's possible, but I doubt a large enough number of people will be willing to fork out another $100-$150 or so for the new HD-DVD drive, something they will need to play newer games.. It might end up being like the sega genesis or turbo grafx 16's cdrom drive... not too many people bought into it... I don't know, maybe times have changed... But I for one wouldn't mind spending $500 on a "media center" that would play next gen games, music, dvds, and blu-ray movies not to mention all my older titles...
Personnally I want HD-DVD to win, but I'll try to explain the differences as unbiased as I can and let you decide.
Blu-Ray currently supports 25GB layers, at up to two layers per disc, and is single sided only for a total of 50GB. TDK recently announced a 4 layer design, but it is only just now being looked at by the Blu-Ray Standards forum, so it isn't officially supported yet.
Blu-Ray relies on MPEG-2 video compression, just like DVD, so your video streams end up being about 24Mbps. On a dual layer disc that means you'll be able to get a little more than 4 and 1/2 hours of video.
Blu-Ray uses a different disc structure from DVD, so it requires a re-tooling of pressing and manufacturing equipment, making the intial cost more expensive.
HD-DVD currently supports up to 15GB layers, at up to three layers per disc, and is capable of being double sided, for a total of six layers, or 90GB. The third layer is a recent addition to the specification.
HD-DVD can use MPEG-4 or WMVHD (a.k.a. VC-9) for video. These codecs acheive higher compression at the same or better quality than MPEG-2. Typical video streams on HD-DVD are 10Mbps. On a dual layer (single sided) disc that means you'll get about 6 1/2 hours of video.
HD-DVD uses the same disc structure as current DVD, so many current manufacturing components can be reused with little or no modification needed, meaning HD-DVD will be faster, and cheaper to produce.
In my opinion, HD-DVD is the better format. Sure, Blu-Ray has higher capacity, but HD-DVD makes better use of the capacity they give you. You get 50% more video on a 30GB HD-DVD disc vs. a 50GB Blu-Ray disc. HD-DVD is cheaper to produce, so you don't pay through the nose for it like you will with Blu-Ray.
Blu-Ray currently supports 25GB layers, at up to two layers per disc, and is single sided only for a total of 50GB. TDK recently announced a 4 layer design, but it is only just now being looked at by the Blu-Ray Standards forum, so it isn't officially supported yet.
Blu-Ray relies on MPEG-2 video compression, just like DVD, so your video streams end up being about 24Mbps. On a dual layer disc that means you'll be able to get a little more than 4 and 1/2 hours of video.
Blu-Ray uses a different disc structure from DVD, so it requires a re-tooling of pressing and manufacturing equipment, making the intial cost more expensive.
HD-DVD currently supports up to 15GB layers, at up to three layers per disc, and is capable of being double sided, for a total of six layers, or 90GB. The third layer is a recent addition to the specification.
HD-DVD can use MPEG-4 or WMVHD (a.k.a. VC-9) for video. These codecs acheive higher compression at the same or better quality than MPEG-2. Typical video streams on HD-DVD are 10Mbps. On a dual layer (single sided) disc that means you'll get about 6 1/2 hours of video.
HD-DVD uses the same disc structure as current DVD, so many current manufacturing components can be reused with little or no modification needed, meaning HD-DVD will be faster, and cheaper to produce.
In my opinion, HD-DVD is the better format. Sure, Blu-Ray has higher capacity, but HD-DVD makes better use of the capacity they give you. You get 50% more video on a 30GB HD-DVD disc vs. a 50GB Blu-Ray disc. HD-DVD is cheaper to produce, so you don't pay through the nose for it like you will with Blu-Ray.
But alas, Sony wants to shove their proprietary piece of crap down our throats. But is that any different than usual? I think it's a piece of shit that they don't let the talks continue to give us a single format, instead of this upcoming war that they're creating for us with their damn console.
azzkikur said:http://www.macworld.com/news/2005/05/19/tdk/index.php
We live in a woderful time. Soon we'll have box sets on single discs. The "LOTR" trilogy on 1 disc. A virtually unlimited world to "jack" cars in for the next Grand Theft Auto.
don't hold your breath... somebody would have to create that world, and with the gaming industry pumping out crap as fast as they can, don't expect too many in-depth games on the horizon... too much money is now involved, all the passion is gone
I disagree. Yes you can call me biased, but I think Nintendo's on the right track with their new system. Less "our system can process 2 teraflops, k let's show you some CGI" and more "don't worry about the other 2 guys, we're trying to make you real games over here"
There are a few developers that are fantastic that do that multiplatform thing, or are even exclusive to Sony and/or MS. But none of them match the passion of Nintendo's development teams. Why do you think they still walk so confidently considering they've shown almost nothing in the face of competition?
If you want my completely unbiased opinion though... between MS and Sony, Sony holds the cards hardware wise, most definately. However, I think Microsoft is desperate to gain the so-called "crown" and has a lot of money to throw around, and you can probably expect more from them. At least in the North American market. Sony isn't going anywhere in Japan, despite their George-Forman-inspired design with the batarang controller. I guess we just won't know until later next year... but I still am very angry at Sony for shoving blu ray out the door, in the face of a so called compromise they were working on. Thanks to them, we now have a format war on our hands, both with their own advantages of course... but nevertheless a war. And I'm not talking about "DVD + and -" here, I'm talking about separate pieces of hardware, and seperate price structures (HDs are much cheaper, Blurays hold slightly more but are more expensive). This is just so aggrivating, and horrible for us consumers.
There are a few developers that are fantastic that do that multiplatform thing, or are even exclusive to Sony and/or MS. But none of them match the passion of Nintendo's development teams. Why do you think they still walk so confidently considering they've shown almost nothing in the face of competition?
If you want my completely unbiased opinion though... between MS and Sony, Sony holds the cards hardware wise, most definately. However, I think Microsoft is desperate to gain the so-called "crown" and has a lot of money to throw around, and you can probably expect more from them. At least in the North American market. Sony isn't going anywhere in Japan, despite their George-Forman-inspired design with the batarang controller. I guess we just won't know until later next year... but I still am very angry at Sony for shoving blu ray out the door, in the face of a so called compromise they were working on. Thanks to them, we now have a format war on our hands, both with their own advantages of course... but nevertheless a war. And I'm not talking about "DVD + and -" here, I'm talking about separate pieces of hardware, and seperate price structures (HDs are much cheaper, Blurays hold slightly more but are more expensive). This is just so aggrivating, and horrible for us consumers.
steviep said:
But keep in mind who the target audiance of those "2 traflops" presentations were. It wasn't the general public, it was developers and publishers. I think a lot of folks here forget that E3 is a tradeshow. The whole point isn't to wow the public, that's marketing's job later on. The whole point of E3 is to get developers, publishers, and large volume retailers excited about your product. It's about convincing them that you have all the right components to support what they want to do, so that collectively you can all sell lots of units and make money. E3 is about the business of video games.
I guarantee you that the real marketing for Xbox360 will not mention anything about teraflops, because it means nothing to the consumer, but it means a whole bunch to the developers and other business partners.
With Nintendo holding back on the info, they are basically turning away all third party developers. Nintendo has made some great games, but to make a successful platform, you need 3rd party developers, because Nintendo simply can't do it all alone. If they try, they will fail, that's been proven time and again.
From what I have read and know
Blue Ray would cost a fortune, but like the memory stick they are going to try and force it on us.
To say Microsoft lost money selling the console yes they did, so did every other console maker The money is in the games.
I think fans of Apple and the iPod owners are gonna like Xbox better.
Xbox is coming out first and when PS3 comes out, thats when MSFT plans to drop the price
Xbox is meant to be a media center too, itll rip discs, and I thought of building a HTPC now I'll just wait. As for playing old games, um if you had old games wouldn't already have the old console. It would require MSFT to add extra compatability code which isnt economical.
Supporters of blueray do not want you to be able to use the content on their discs however you want. some of the backers of bluray wants it so you can't use it on a computer.
Blue Ray would cost a fortune, but like the memory stick they are going to try and force it on us.
To say Microsoft lost money selling the console yes they did, so did every other console maker
The money is in the games.I think fans of Apple and the iPod owners are gonna like Xbox better.
Xbox is coming out first and when PS3 comes out, thats when MSFT plans to drop the price
Xbox is meant to be a media center too, itll rip discs, and I thought of building a HTPC now I'll just wait. As for playing old games, um if you had old games wouldn't already have the old console. It would require MSFT to add extra compatability code which isnt economical.
Supporters of blueray do not want you to be able to use the content on their discs however you want. some of the backers of bluray wants it so you can't use it on a computer.
bigbadgreen
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I think the main reason that the x360 has a majorly supported drive right now is becuase microsoft doesn't want to get burned. If you look back through history there have been times when two new formats arrive. VHS vs Beta-Max for example. Beta was a better format in theory, but VHS was adopted. I think by sony going with a blu-ray, if they do. they stand a chance to get burned if HD-DVD catches on instead of blu-ray. the sad part of all of this is that the porn industry is pretty much deciding which format is going to be used.
This is why VHS prevailed over beta. the porn industry pushes out so much content that they are in the drivers seat. some "experts" are saying HD-DVD and others say blu-ray. Only time will tell. But this is the reason why the x360 has a dvd-rom only. I'm sure they'll make an upgrade if it comes to that. but for now multiple DVD's will hold more than enough info for games through 05, and probably 06. 2 dual layer discs still get you 19.2GB.
This is why VHS prevailed over beta. the porn industry pushes out so much content that they are in the drivers seat. some "experts" are saying HD-DVD and others say blu-ray. Only time will tell. But this is the reason why the x360 has a dvd-rom only. I'm sure they'll make an upgrade if it comes to that. but for now multiple DVD's will hold more than enough info for games through 05, and probably 06. 2 dual layer discs still get you 19.2GB.