Would this radiator be enough??

armyoffoo said:
Would this radiator be enough for a mildy overclocked C2D + 8800GTX?

http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=336&products_id=2023

I only have room for a dual 80mm radiator, if this is weak please let me know if there is a better one. Thanks!
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A single 80mm radiator would be enough for anything. However, if you're asking if a dual 80mm radiator would be sufficient enough to NOT be the bottleneck on your temps, then the answer is no.

If you don't mind lower than air, but higher than the average WC setup type of temps, then by all means. If silence is your goal, you're already half way there. However, if big overclocks and rock bottom temps aren't what you're looking for then you'll have to look elsewhere: swiftech MCR 220 or thermochill PA120.2.
 
Pretty sure a dual 80mm rad, even with Deltas, is never going to cool better than an equivalent 1x120mm rad. A dual 80mm rad just isn't big enough to properly dissipate that much heat - you're talking about well over 300 watts, approaching 400. Good air will most likely get you better temps. 80mm rads are so thick, incredibly weak, but quiet, 80mm fans are poorly suited to that thick of a rad. Either mod your case for a larger (at least 2x120mm) radiator, mount it externally (highly recommend a Radbox), or stick with aftermarket air until you can fit a large enough rad.
 
ikellensbro said:
Pretty sure a dual 80mm rad, even with Deltas, is never going to cool better than an equivalent 1x120mm rad.
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80mm rad, blue curve is a 31dBA fan

80QP%20CW%20vs%20FR%20SM.gif


120mm rad, a 34dBA fan is the solid blue line.

120QPvsOLD_CW-350X257.gif


2 x 31dBA fans = 1 x 34dBA fan noise wise.

2 x 80mm rads @ 1.5gpm => ~0.05C/W
1 x 120mm rad @ 1.5gpm => ~0.055C/W

Looks to me that noise-for-noise, pound-per-pound, that dual 80mm rads is a touch better than a single 120mm rad.
 
At 400W heat load, 0.05C/W => ~20C water temps above ambient.

The dual-80mm rad could therefore handle that heat load, although the water will be getting pretty warm (40-50C or ~100-120F). It'd be fairly borderline as to if water or air would be doing a better job, but if you consider it as a stepping stone towards getting a better radiator setup in future, it'd be a serviceable solution until that time.
 
OP, I would never consider using a double 80mm radiator in any situation. Regardless of where the math puts it.
 
Don't know why the prejudice.

8x8cm = 64cm² => 128cm² of radiator area for 2 x 80mm rads
12x12cm = 144cm² of surface area.

Dual 80mm rad has 90% of the surface area of a single 120mm rad.

80mm fans have really good pressure to push through restriction. They're typically quite a bit better at it than 120mm fans, and that's why when fitted with fans, the resultant dual 80mm rad will outperform the single 120mm rad, noise-for-noise.

Seems to me to be a perfectly reasonable solution in the event that a 120mm rad can't be fitted, but a dual-80mm rad can be.
 
Cathar said:
Don't know why the prejudice.

8x8cm = 64cm² => 128cm² of radiator area for 2 x 80mm rads
12x12cm = 144cm² of surface area.

Dual 80mm rad has 90% of the surface area of a single 120mm rad.

80mm fans have really good pressure to push through restriction. They're typically quite a bit better at it than 120mm fans, and that's why when fitted with fans, the resultant dual 80mm rad will outperform the single 120mm rad, noise-for-noise.

Seems to me to be a perfectly reasonable solution in the event that a 120mm rad can't be fitted, but a dual-80mm rad can be.
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dude, you need to cut it out.



By the time you use scientifically derived data, combined with common sense and logic, all mixed with a non-confrontational, easy going attitude, no one stands a chance at spreading FUD. :mad:
 
Cathar said:
Don't know why the prejudice.

8x8cm = 64cm² => 128cm² of radiator area for 2 x 80mm rads
12x12cm = 144cm² of surface area.

Dual 80mm rad has 90% of the surface area of a single 120mm rad.

80mm fans have really good pressure to push through restriction. They're typically quite a bit better at it than 120mm fans, and that's why when fitted with fans, the resultant dual 80mm rad will outperform the single 120mm rad, noise-for-noise.

Seems to me to be a perfectly reasonable solution in the event that a 120mm rad can't be fitted, but a dual-80mm rad can be.
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Better than a single radiator, yes... but I'd never rely on a single 120mm radiator to cool a C2D and 8800GTX. It can barely handle a 7800GT and a stock X2 3800 (been there, done that) and 34db puts it above most aircooling setups.

So, as I said, regardless of where the math puts it... It's going to be louder than a good air setup (Thermalright Uex + yate loon and the stock GPU cooler) and with it's 20c coolant over ambient delta, the temperatures arn't going to be anywhere near worth it.

I respect the math Cathar, but I think logically, the OP is going to be fairly dissipointed if he chooses to go this route. The reason I vehementally avoided it in my post.

topcat989 said:
dude, you need to cut it out.

By the time you use scientifically derived data, combined with common sense and logic, all mixed with a non-confrontational, easy going attitude, no one stands a chance at spreading FUD. :mad:
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Are you saying what I said was FUD? Go right ahead trying a double radiator. Been there. Done that. It didn't maintain an acceptable temperature on my ~280w heat simulator.
 
Arcygenical said:
........Are you saying what I said was FUD? Go right ahead trying a double radiator. Been there. Done that. It didn't maintain an acceptable temperature on my ~280w heat simulator.
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*sigh*

some folks are a little quick on the draw these days. My post was complimenting cather and his posting style, it was not aimed at you.
 
Arcygenical said:
Better than a single radiator, yes... but I'd never rely on a single 120mm radiator to cool a C2D and 8800GTX. It can barely handle a 7800GT and a stock X2 3800 (been there, done that) and 34db puts it above most aircooling setups.
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Thanks for taking the time to qualify your response. See, I was responding to this statement by you:

Arcygenical said:
I would never consider using a double 80mm radiator in any situation. Regardless of where the math puts it.
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I'm glad that you took the time to qualify your statement further, rather than issuing a blanket statement that is in fact, incorrect. We can use a double 80mm radiator in any scenario where it'd be suitable to use a single 120mm radiator.
 
Cathar said:
I'm glad that you took the time to qualify your statement further, rather than issuing a blanket statement that is in fact, incorrect. We can use a double 80mm radiator in any scenario where it'd be suitable to use a single 120mm radiator.
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I guess I completely ignored that the added thickness of a 2x80mm would make up for the lesser (overly exaggerated on my part) surface area. I also assumed a 2x80mm was too restrictive for quieter fans, with its added thickness.

To go back to armyoffoo's question, you'll be looking at 50*C or higher temps. On your 8800GTX, you're more likely to have lower temps than air, but air can keep your C2D cooler, depending on the fan.

Cathar said:
I'm glad that you took the time to qualify your statement further, rather than issuing a blanket statement that is in fact, incorrect. We can use a double 80mm radiator in any scenario where it'd be suitable to use a single 120mm radiator.
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Pretty sure Arcygenical is saying that 2x80mm or 1x120mm, he would suggest a larger radiator for that kind of a heat load. Not to put words in his mouth, but I agree that a larger radiator would be optimal.
 
ikellensbro said:
Pretty sure Arcygenical is saying that 2x80mm or 1x120mm, he would suggest a larger radiator for that kind of a heat load. Not to put words in his mouth, but I agree that a larger radiator would be optimal.
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As did I.

I just wanted to ensure that we weren't dismissing the dual 80mm rad as junk for all scenarios. It is far from such.
 
I did dual 80mm radiators for my HTPC and was not very happy with the outcome. It took so much fan noise it make it work I ended up going back to air cooling it.
 
R1ckCa1n said:
I did dual 80mm radiators for my HTPC and was not very happy with the outcome. It took so much fan noise it make it work I ended up going back to air cooling it.
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Yes - gotta be picky about the fans.

A pair of Panaflo FBA08A12L fans on each side of the radiator would yield decent results with the lowest noise.
 
Cathar said:
Yes - gotta be picky about the fans.

A pair of Panaflo FBA08A12L fans on each side of the radiator would yield decent results with the lowest noise.
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And the radiator placement. I think it is alot to ask for any computer to be shooved in an audio rack with very little ventalation.

I would say my experience was more application than product.
 
topcat989 said:
*sigh*

some folks are a little quick on the draw these days. My post was complimenting cather and his posting style, it was not aimed at you.
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I'm sorry, I was being a total douche bag this morning... I got home from work at about midnight, and had to be up at 3:45am to be awake enough for my 6am shift.

Cathar said:
Thanks for taking the time to qualify your response. See, I was responding to this statement by you:

I'm glad that you took the time to qualify your statement further, rather than issuing a blanket statement that is in fact, incorrect. We can use a double 80mm radiator in any scenario where it'd be suitable to use a single 120mm radiator.
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See above. Yeah, I was in a bit of a hurry yesterday when I wrote that, but I can't leave the WC forum unchecked at any time of the day :rolleyes:. But I still stand behind what I said, I don't believe the blanket statement is incorrect, but rather fully justified :). Maybe I'll be a bit more eloquent this time. I'd never use a double 80mm radiator, and I do dismiss it as pure junk, simply because the BTU/decibel rating is so much worse than a single 120mm radiator. As generalizing of a statement that is, I still would never use a 2.80mm radiator under any circumstance. In terms of pure cooling capacity (as your thermal resistance coefficent math has proven) it might best a 120mm radiator, but it seriously defeats one of the major benefits to watercooling, silence.

ikellensbro said:
Pretty sure Arcygenical is saying that 2x80mm or 1x120mm, he would suggest a larger radiator for that kind of a heat load. Not to put words in his mouth, but I agree that a larger radiator would be optimal.
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Yeah, you'll get intense heatsoak... a 20c delta over air temperature means idle temps a good 10-15c over ambient +~ 20... so you'd be idling in the 50s, loading in the 70s after a few minutes of warm-up. :eek:
 
I have an 80mm radiator here (MCR80-QP). Not a double mind you.

Next time I run a round of tests (coming up shortly), I'll whack it onto the testbed with some decent 80mm fans and doing noise vs performance tests.

The issue I have with sweeping statements is that for ages now people have hunted for good 120mm fans that are quiet. The same pursuit can not be said to hold for 80mm fans, but not all 80mm fans are equal. There are a number of good/quiet/strong 80mm fans on the market, and it is quite possible to make a dual-80mm rad perform the same as 120mm radiator, noise for noise. Swiftech's own tests confirm that, as they actually supplied the noise levels for the fans used to achieve those performances.

Arcygenical said:
IIn terms of pure cooling capacity (as your thermal resistance coefficent math has proven) it might best a 120mm radiator, but it seriously defeats one of the major benefits to watercooling, silence.
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Swiftech's data was saying that noise-for-noise, a dual 80mm rad can outperform a single 120mm radiator.

Just because the 80mm fans that most people think of are Delta's, doesn't mean that these are the only fans that are available.

(sigh) I think it's yet one more thing I'll have to add to my mythbuster to-do list.
 
R1ckCa1n said:
Don't tell me you are the guy with the red hair on that show!!!!! :D
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No, but I do reckon that there's enough out on the web in the form of myths about watercooling that there'd easily be enough material to base a one season show on.

Hmmm. I have a decent little solid state camera that puts out near DVD quality images. That's a thought. Could start doing little mini water-cooling myth-buster episodes. The only drawback would be people trying to decipher my rather thick Australian accent. I guess I could always fake up a Crocodile Hunter accent though! "Cor! Blimey! Look at this little ripper! She may be small (camera pans to an 80mm radiator sitting in some tall grass), but she sure can pack a surprising punch! I have to be really careful here, 'cos she's equipped with vicious 80mm Delta fans, and they'll rip yer fingers off, just like that!"
 
Cathar said:
No, but I do reckon that there's enough out on the web in the form of myths about watercooling that there'd easily be enough material to base a one season show on.

Hmmm. I have a decent little solid state camera that puts out near DVD quality images. That's a thought. Could start doing little mini water-cooling myth-buster episodes. The only drawback would be people trying to decipher my rather thick Australian accent. I guess I could always fake up a Crocodile Hunter accent though! "Cor! Blimey! Look at this little ripper! She may be small (camera pans to an 80mm radiator sitting in some tall grass), but she sure can pack a surprising punch! I have to be really careful here, 'cos she's equipped with vicious 80mm Delta fans, and they'll rip yer fingers off, just like that!"
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LOL... you can webcast the episodes and make a mint.
 
Cathar said:
No, but I do reckon that there's enough out on the web in the form of myths about watercooling that there'd easily be enough material to base a one season show on.

Hmmm. I have a decent little solid state camera that puts out near DVD quality images. That's a thought. Could start doing little mini water-cooling myth-buster episodes. The only drawback would be people trying to decipher my rather thick Australian accent. I guess I could always fake up a Crocodile Hunter accent though! "Cor! Blimey! Look at this little ripper! She may be small (camera pans to an 80mm radiator sitting in some tall grass), but she sure can pack a surprising punch! I have to be really careful here, 'cos she's equipped with vicious 80mm Delta fans, and they'll rip yer fingers off, just like that!"
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I think that's a good idea! The guys at AC Berlin (a distributor) did something similar called Mod my Machine and even got it broadcast over some cable channels in Germany.
 
I am installing this in a Cooler Master 541 case, dual 80mm in back (no room to mod-in 120mm) and one 120mm intake up front. So my options are limited. I'm not looking for incredibly low temps, or insane overclocking. I'm looking for a way to keep my components cool and happy for a long time without my PC sounding like a jet taking off. That, and I have never "built" a water-cooled system. I had a thermaltake big water, but that doesn't count. I want to piece together the pump, res, and blocks with a decent radiator to keep them cool. I planned on installing the radiator on the outside of the case with two fans exhausting air through the radiator and a 120mm up front feeding them fresh cool air.
 
Arcygenical said:
I'm sorry, I was being a total douche bag this morning... I got home from work at about midnight, and had to be up at 3:45am to be awake enough for my 6am shift.....
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np, i've posted while being less than 100% myself a time or 200:D
 
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