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It doesn't matter what your stance on Windows 8 is, people getting excited over a "boot to desktop" option is pretty funny.
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Windows 8.1 To Have A Boot To Desktop Option?
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DeathPrincess
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Then it wont be a big deal to click whatever button to open the start screen, so no making a big deal out of it.
Unfortunately, this is anything but assured. Yes, a code snippet exists--but that's it. The people "excited" about it are the people who have already purchased Win8Pro and like it fine with one exception: they don't care for the touch-screen interface (which makes no sense on a desktop) and would prefer the old Start Menu, instead. What bothers me is that if Microsoft had any sense people would not have to "ask for it" since it would already be an option in the OS for those that want it and we wouldn't be having this discussion. Emulating Apple's "my way or the highway" stance won't help Microsoft because its customers are generally far more savvy and *they know* when *they* are being short-changed.
Something's very wrong @ Microsoft if the Win8 Start Menu isn't a choice because Microsoft is afraid people won't accept the touchscreen interface unless it is forced on them. I find nothing at all illogical about people who don't own touchscreens not wanting a touchscreen UI. Knock-knock, Microsoft. Anybody home?
Something's very wrong @ Microsoft if the Win8 Start Menu isn't a choice because Microsoft is afraid people won't accept the touchscreen interface unless it is forced on them. I find nothing at all illogical about people who don't own touchscreens not wanting a touchscreen UI. Knock-knock, Microsoft. Anybody home?
Lamont Cranston
Gawd
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GAH they took away the start menu Microsoft Sux
Look we can maybe boot to desktop, microsoft might have listened to us! wait Microsoft Sux
Hey look a million dollars for free....its not enuf life sux
people just have to have something to bitch about i guess, kinda sad reading most of these posts, people are never happy, things change and people are even more un happy and want them back to the way they were bt then complain its the same old thing....
Microsoft needs to change their logo to a piece of fruit, start tripling what they are charging, and gain an air of arrogance and then people will flock to them
Look we can maybe boot to desktop, microsoft might have listened to us! wait Microsoft Sux
Hey look a million dollars for free....its not enuf life sux
people just have to have something to bitch about i guess, kinda sad reading most of these posts, people are never happy, things change and people are even more un happy and want them back to the way they were bt then complain its the same old thing....
Microsoft needs to change their logo to a piece of fruit, start tripling what they are charging, and gain an air of arrogance and then people will flock to them
Domingo
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Aren't there plenty of free add-ons in MS's own Windows 8 store that already do this?
If you don't like Windows 8 now and you're on a site like [H], I can't imagine this being a big deal.
At this point, I think nothing less than a "real" Start Menu from MS (not those klugdy add-ons) and a less disjointed App screen will win over people that hate Windows 8.
If you don't like Windows 8 now and you're on a site like [H], I can't imagine this being a big deal.
At this point, I think nothing less than a "real" Start Menu from MS (not those klugdy add-ons) and a less disjointed App screen will win over people that hate Windows 8.
Ashbringer
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It won't really do anything. It's just a win for customers, as Microsoft wasn't listening to them. Though a futile win, as there's the start button issue still. Not to forget the fact of WHY owning Windows 8 over Windows 7 to begin with.
Microsoft is just digging themselves out of a hole with a spoon.
heatlesssun
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Out of all of the issues that people have with Windows 8, this is one just don't get. I don't boot machines much so that's part of it. But the other part is that the programs that I startup all of the time at boot are on the Start Screen, be they desktop apps or Metro apps. There's no need to go to the desktop to start a desktop app. I have a feeling that a lot of people that talk about this issue my know actually get that.
DeathPrincess
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There's still the glaring issue of virtually no reason to "upgrade" (not enough so using the word upgrade is an not insult to actual upgrades). They need to add something worthwhile to make it a true successor, not just the same thing with some half assed crap and a stupid UI to trick morons that it wasn't the same stuff again.
ManofGod
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Agreed, it has already been shown that people don't actually hate windows 8 as much as the reports makes it sound. Sure it liked as much as windows 7 but it still isn't hated as much as Vista by actual people.
heatlesssun
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I've long said that Windows 8 on conventional a desktop or laptop doesn't bring a lot to the table if all one is interested in is conventional desktop and keyboard and mouse operation. With hardware like a hybrid or is altogether another matter where Windows 8 is vastly superior to 7. I do think the notion of hybrid computing is the best chance that Windows 8 and beyond have in terms of growth.
CreepyUncleGoogle
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They knew exactly what they were doing. They had to force people into using the Start Screen to make the floundering Windows Store that failed horrible in WinMo's days have a chance at generating profit. If the OS made it apparent that 3rd party programs were easily installed by maintaining the desktop UI, there'd be much reduced chances that people would spend money via the Windows Store and less appeal to developers to make applications available there versus using previous distribution models.
Beyond that, they really genuinely thought that tablets would take off and they were right, but the problem is that their competition has already established brand recognition via premium products that have named the industry. Right now tablet = iPad. Microsoft has a long uphill battle on the premium/high price end and isn't able to compete in the budget end against Android devices since they're currently stuck with either an older Tegra or a dinosaur Atom design.
I've been using Windows 8 for months as my gaming machine (hooked up to my TV) and not a hitch with it. Matter of fact, the tiles as clickable icons are much better for me as a gaming machine while sitting on the couch because often I just grab the Xbox controller to game with on the PC and since it isn't as precise when acting as a mouse the big tiles makes clicking easier. The biggest issue I have with Windows right now is losing my Google calendar synch which has less to do with Windows 8 and more to do with a Google/MS pissing match. That is also why I'm holding off on a tablet upgrade because I really want a Windows 8 tablet but won't buy one until I can get my Google calendar interfaced with it properly.
At work? Not sure since I have no direct experience with it there. But, I tend to open the programs I need and keep them open for long periods of time. Clicking the one extra button to get into the desktop mode and launch CAD/Outlook/Explorer/Browser (my staple programs in the run of a day) would not be a disaster of epic proportions. I can count the number of times I use the start menu at work on one hand ... for the entire month. I only ever use it for those occasional programs and control panel. But, as long as things are humming along fine I never touch it. So, that said, my day to day work routine probably wouldn't be impacted at all by losing the start menu on the desktop.
That said, yes, it was primarily designed as a touch interface operating system and it could use some tweaks because of that. My criticisms are below but they aren't unreasonable and are fixable without getting rid of Metro.
1) The chimes aren't convenient for a mouse. Yes, it is easy to get to the corner but when you bring the mouse down to click on an item, if you're a bit sloppy with the mouse movement you might lose the chimes and have to go back to the top corner to get it back. Maybe adding a right click at the corner would leave it open?
2) The default metro email client desperately needs the ability to delete an email with the delete key on my keyboard. That, to me, was a touch interface oversight. It makes sense to click the delete button on a touch surface but no sense when using a mouse and keyboard. That needs fixing.
3) When opening a file/program in the desktop environment you shouldn't be shunted back to the metro environment. I realize that it is nice that they included a basic PDF reader, for example, in the basic windows package. That is certainly better than clicking on the PDF and getting the "Search for a program to open this file" thing. But, the experience can be jarring until you realize why that is. Overall, I think if you're in a desktop environment you should stay there ... PERIOD. Not be shunted back to metro at all.
4) A criticism on metro itself as a touch interface is this ... control panel still exists in a desktop mode. If you want to change settings beyond the most basic of things then you have to go to the tried and true desktop mode control panel. Then, if you make changes there it can affect your metro interface but the metro interface won't tell you how to change it back. Currently, for instance, my metro interface "Personalize" tab is effectively non-functioning because of things I've done in control panel but it won't tell me what those changes are to re-enable it.
Those are the few items off the top of my head. None require abolishing the metro interface and certainly don't make metro a complete failure or a disaster of epic proportions. They're minor annoyances. I think the metro interface is fantastic for touch and also fantastic for a home entertainment PC (or gaming on a TV) because the bigger tiles are better than clicking icons at that distance from the screen.
But, if they offered an option on install to default to desktop or metro ... excellent. Choice is good in my book. The start menu? As I said above, I can take it or leave it. With the way the taskbar works right now, unless you use a massive number of different programs in the run of a day there's only minimal need for the start menu at all. I do agree with one suggestion, though, regarding the search function. If, in desktop mode, they had a way for a fly-out from the side (like chimes) for the search mode for programs it would certainly make the search for a rarely used program less jarring than jumping back to full-screen metro.
At work? Not sure since I have no direct experience with it there. But, I tend to open the programs I need and keep them open for long periods of time. Clicking the one extra button to get into the desktop mode and launch CAD/Outlook/Explorer/Browser (my staple programs in the run of a day) would not be a disaster of epic proportions. I can count the number of times I use the start menu at work on one hand ... for the entire month. I only ever use it for those occasional programs and control panel. But, as long as things are humming along fine I never touch it. So, that said, my day to day work routine probably wouldn't be impacted at all by losing the start menu on the desktop.
That said, yes, it was primarily designed as a touch interface operating system and it could use some tweaks because of that. My criticisms are below but they aren't unreasonable and are fixable without getting rid of Metro.
1) The chimes aren't convenient for a mouse. Yes, it is easy to get to the corner but when you bring the mouse down to click on an item, if you're a bit sloppy with the mouse movement you might lose the chimes and have to go back to the top corner to get it back. Maybe adding a right click at the corner would leave it open?
2) The default metro email client desperately needs the ability to delete an email with the delete key on my keyboard. That, to me, was a touch interface oversight. It makes sense to click the delete button on a touch surface but no sense when using a mouse and keyboard. That needs fixing.
3) When opening a file/program in the desktop environment you shouldn't be shunted back to the metro environment. I realize that it is nice that they included a basic PDF reader, for example, in the basic windows package. That is certainly better than clicking on the PDF and getting the "Search for a program to open this file" thing. But, the experience can be jarring until you realize why that is. Overall, I think if you're in a desktop environment you should stay there ... PERIOD. Not be shunted back to metro at all.
4) A criticism on metro itself as a touch interface is this ... control panel still exists in a desktop mode. If you want to change settings beyond the most basic of things then you have to go to the tried and true desktop mode control panel. Then, if you make changes there it can affect your metro interface but the metro interface won't tell you how to change it back. Currently, for instance, my metro interface "Personalize" tab is effectively non-functioning because of things I've done in control panel but it won't tell me what those changes are to re-enable it.
Those are the few items off the top of my head. None require abolishing the metro interface and certainly don't make metro a complete failure or a disaster of epic proportions. They're minor annoyances. I think the metro interface is fantastic for touch and also fantastic for a home entertainment PC (or gaming on a TV) because the bigger tiles are better than clicking icons at that distance from the screen.
But, if they offered an option on install to default to desktop or metro ... excellent. Choice is good in my book. The start menu? As I said above, I can take it or leave it. With the way the taskbar works right now, unless you use a massive number of different programs in the run of a day there's only minimal need for the start menu at all. I do agree with one suggestion, though, regarding the search function. If, in desktop mode, they had a way for a fly-out from the side (like chimes) for the search mode for programs it would certainly make the search for a rarely used program less jarring than jumping back to full-screen metro.
Domingo
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I agree with you here. I'm a desktop Win8 user. Whenever I browse the store I can't help but keep thinking "man...there are a dozen free desktop apps that already do this much better." In many cases those apps are just web front-ends that really don't have any place outside of a phone or tiny mobile device. For desktop users, the store is a bust outside of the games for sale there.
While I'm sure there are several reasons for pushing people away from the desktop, one of the biggest ones is to push people toward that store.
heatlesssun
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But most of those desktop apps probably don't work well with touch input. And there are a number of those apps that really can be nice on a desktop, the news and content readers and players are nice. The typography in the Bing News app is great and look great on a big screen desktop display.
It's going to take time and for now Metro apps aren't meant to replace the desktop, but they can augment the desktop experience.
Ur_Mom
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This is good news. I am very comfortable with the Modern UI and Start Screen, but there are a LOT of people that aren't, and really hate it. It's a huge barrier to Windows 8 adoption. Microsoft is seeing this, even if they are just testing internally. Regardless of if I and a few others (Heatlesssun, among the most vocal) have no issues with it, the majority of people are not liking it. This has been proven many times, in various forums, videos, direct MSFT feedback, industry reports, tech publications........ I can argue why the SS is so great, and works great for me, but if it doesn't work for you, I'm just wasting my breath. I think Microsoft is seeing that, as well. I think giving the option of a 'desktop mode' and 'touchscreen mode' would give amazing results. Satisfy both crowds. On a touchscreen, Metro is awesome. On a desktop, it works fine for me, but I can see how it couldn't for others.
ballistic90
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What I want from Windows 8 is to bring back easy switching between applications (especially Metro applications), bring back the X to close applications, and have the gestures make sense.
I don't give a shit if my computer boots to desktop. It doesn't bother me one bit, as the tiles aren't much of an issue to navigate.
I don't give a shit if my computer boots to desktop. It doesn't bother me one bit, as the tiles aren't much of an issue to navigate.
octoberasian
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It took me a while to figure how to close Windows Store apps until someone on [H] pointed out you drag from top to bottom to close it.
That's a move you do on a tablet, and it's so anti-mouse and keyboard.
I was actually looking for the X at the top-right corner, but it wasn't there.
So, I agree, Microsoft should work on making Windows 8.1 more non-touchscreen, desktop PC friendly because the touchscreen-centric UI is not going to work and it's not going to help bring more customers to Windows 8.
dgz
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I am going to quote myself from the news article MajorDomo posted.
You can do it in less than a minute. For free. No additional software needed.
You can boot straight to desktop right now without any 3rd party tools or anything. Just leave an open Windows Explorer window and voila. You just need to enable the Restore previous folder windows at logon.
I discovered this by accident as I've always found the option very useful.
You can do it in less than a minute. For free. No additional software needed.
Ocean
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yay, now they just need aero transparency so i can tell the window that im clicking on is an actual window im closing and not just a picture of one.
I use Classic shell with Win8Pro and it's fine--except that it isn't supported by Microsoft or the OS. The traditional non-touchscreen UI is present and accounted for in all respects in Win8Pro *except* for the start menu. Agreed--why should Microsoft's non-touchscreen customers (who likely outnumber its touchscreen customers by 20-1) have to use a kludge for a start menu in Win8Pro?
One of the earlier Win8 consumer releases had code for bypassing the start screen entirely and booting directly to desktop--which Microsoft removed after the info was made public! What's the big deal @ Microsoft for the start screen for people without touchscreens? It doesn't make any sense for Microsoft not to offer both UIs and let the customer decide which one he'll use.
At first, prior to installing Win8Pro, I didn't think it would make much difference at all--it'd just be a start page instead of a start menu. Was I ever wrong about that...
Not having a start menu has made me value and appreciate the start menu like I have never done before! Frankly, the "start page" sucks--the menu is far more powerful and useful--not to mention incredibly better looking (I think the RT UI is just plain oooo-o-o-o-ogly.)
DeathFromBelow
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I think a big part of their reasoning behind forcing Metro was that it would encourage people to use their App store. They ended up shooting themselves in the foot since the radical changes put people off. Sales and app store submissions have flatlined.
Beyond that, even on touch products Metro is a terrible UI. I bought a little tablet PC to play with (MSI Windpad) and I still prefer the Classic Shell start menu. I never use Metro. Its incredible that Microsoft managed to make a 'start screen' that is less functional than tiny traditional menu.
That's great until you forget to close other windows at shutdown, too...
Then, they're going to be open, too, at boot-up. That's why I've never used the option.I like Win8Pro OK, especially the OS-supported & built-in iso mounting, but you'll never sell me on the idea that Microsoft is not bonkers for ensuring that for 98% of everything you do you won't need to use the touchscreen interface unless you choose to do so--but then simply omits the start menu...? Doesn't compute. People without touchscreens have no need or use at all for "Metro." Microsoft should not have to be told that.
Very interesting and thanks for the tablet info! Yes, like you, I never gave the start menu a moment's thought until Microsoft asked me to do without it...
I've come to appreciate it more than I ever thought would be possible--but I guess that's also paying tribute to just how *bad* Metro actually is--especially the start screen. Win7 (and the traditional desktop UI featured in Win7) is probably the most popular OS Microsoft has ever shipped--and that was what--2009, or so? I've never understood why Microsoft would think that suddenly people were going to loathe the desktop UI (especially people with desktops) and jump whole hog into Metro. To me, what Microsoft did is analogous to the first wheel maker garnering great success selling round wheels only to turn around three years later and decide his wheels ought be square, instead...
Very weird.heatlesssun
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At first, prior to installing Win8Pro, I didn't think it would make much difference at all--it'd just be a start page instead of a start menu. Was I ever wrong about that...
There's really nothing powerful about the Start Menu, it's just a list of static icons and a view of Start Menu folder. The Start Screen does make a lot of sense for a modern computer in that it can present information in addition to simply being an app launcher. There's certainly much that can be done to improve the app launching, management and local search aspects of it. I just believe that a modern PC can have its starting point be more than a small static list of icons.
ballistic90
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I agree with this. The start screen can BECOME something more than the Windows 7 start menu, it's just not there yet. If you ask Microsoft what benefit it offers over a start menu, all you'd probably get is that it's easier to use with a touch screen.
And that's not reason enough to learn to use it.
yelsewshane
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If I was head of Microsoft I would put in the start bar again but also get with NVidia and AMD to make a new dx 12 to make all you gamers cry and have to use the os if you want the latest and greatest tech.
RangerXML
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There are now rumors going around that they found code that the Start button maybe back (or an option to enable it).
Ur_Mom
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It can be something nice on the desktop. On my Windows Phone, the tiles give me a lot of information just by looking at my phone. I can see updates all on the home screen from multiple applications. It's great. Windows 8 attempts to do the same, but it isn't as elegant. That's not how desktops are used. Tablets? I can see it. With limited screen real estate, you can see what's going on in a single screen. Desktops, with larger monitors, you can have multiple applications running at once, so you can see those applications update live (or flash on the taskbar).
The Start Screen can be something great on the desktop, but it's not there yet. Phone & tablet - it works much better.
Start menu, on the other hand, is organized well. It's a proven way of accessing things. Live? No. It's very static. Which is great when you want it to be static. That's the point. You get in, start a program and you're out. Done, quick and easy. You don't want the live updates, you don't want to look at multiple tiles looking for the one you want. You know what you want - All Programs > Adobe > Acrobat. Done.
mynamehere
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It should have been touch screen aware from the beginning. No touch screen = boot to desktop (with an option to change the behavior if you simply must have metro on your non-touch screen. The reverse would also apply).
ShuttleLuv
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I don't get all the windows 8 hate. I guess they just shoulda stop talking about the ui so much and released it. The ui hype, both good and bad, destroyed it.