JediFonger
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I've got Asus Q170, if the CPU compatibility doesn't list Xeon Skylakes... that means I cannot just purchase one and install it into the board right?
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Will Skylake Xeons work with desktop boards?
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Shintai
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You need BIOS support to run them. So consider it as no support. I also think they got restricted to the Xeon chipsets.
Officially, no. It won't work. Unofficially, you take your chances. Sometimes they do work and sometimes they don't. ASUS "WS" motherboards and several from ASRock should support LGA1151 Xeons if I recall correctly. Xeons aren't necessarily restricted to "Xeon" chipsets as the consumer level chipsets are largely rebranded Xeon chipsets anyway.
JediFonger
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in the past (maybe i am remembering incorrectly) there used to be lots of hacking with pins and stuff to fool BIOS and board... not sure if that hanky panky is still going on lol... man i feel old.
No. The hardware is more or less the same now. The Z170 and C232 chipsets are virtually identical. The BIOS and what CPU microcode it supports are what determine what CPU you can use with a given socket. On a consumer motherboard, not all the Xeon features may work well or at all, but you can still run them like a regular Core i5/i7. For example the ASUS Z170-WS doesn't officially support ECC memory but does support Xeon CPUs. The E3 PRO V5 actually uses the C232 chipset if you are interested in that. Its basically like any Z170 motherboard. I'm not precisely sure why it even exists but it does.
JediFonger
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q170 has vpro out of band. none of the other chipsets offer that. and yes i know i can buy the separate dongable... but would rather work with integrated stuff. anywho... so it will power on and stuff? i'm looking for more cores... it's been slow going trying to get an official single socket xeon 2011r3 board.
The ASUS X99 WS and ASRock X99 WS or X99E-ITX/AC are all examples of motherboards that officially support Xeon v3 CPUs. There are a lot more that do as well. There is no trick or special hardware needed to support these CPUs. They simply have to support Xeon microcode. If you try a Xeon CPU in a motherboard that doesn't officially support it, one of several things could happen. The system could power on but give you an error about an unrecognized CPU. Another strong possibility is that the system simply won't POST at all. Stability and support of that CPUs features would be dicey at best.
JediFonger
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none of those have vpro/out of band access... but they are good for gaming i suppose.
The Xeon doesn't have a monopoly on vPro. Many Core i5 and i7 CPUs support it. That said, no "K" SKU processors do. Unfortunately, the only chipsets that support vPro are going to be Q170 and C236. A motherboard based on the Q170 chipset isn't likely to support Xeon CPUs. X99 doesn't support it either, so the LGA2011 v3 platform with a consumer chipset is a no go. Your only option is the C612 chipset. Most of the motherboards that use that are going to be fairly expensive.
Xeon support is an afterthought for consumer level motherboards. As I said, dropping a Xeon on one sometimes works but not all the features of said Xeon CPU will necessarily be available, even with official support for them.
JediFonger
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The C232 chipset doesn't. The C236 does.
lolfail9001
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I feel like you are confusing C232 and C236 for some reason.
Also, does it actually support Xeons? CPU Support list has none of those.
I see the confusion. My remarks about C232 and Z170. You are partially correct in that I've confused some of the names. That said, C236 chipset supports vPro. The C232 chipset does not. I said as much earlier. Again, chipset support doesn't have much to do with the CPU when the chipsets and CPUs are more or less the same across both market segments. Intel changes support for a handful of features for market segmentation. The C612 and X99 chipsets are more or less the same. Either can be used with Xeon CPUs. Again, the motherboard has to support it, but that has little to do with the chipset and much more to do with the BIOS.
I don't know of any Q170 chipset based motherboard that supports Xeons. All the motherboards I said support Xeon's specifically, support Xeon CPUs respective of their sockets.
lolfail9001
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No, i mean, i cannot find see any evidence Z170-WS actually supports Xeons, opposite to your claim.
And considering amount of these 1337 gaming mobos on C232/C236 chipsets that popped up this generation, there is a very solid reason to think Intel either found ability to lock down CPU support to PCH or strictly prohibited mobo vendors from supporting Xeons on consumer chipsets.
Looking at how BCLK turned out in the end, i take the former.
I was fairly certain the Z170-WS did support Xeon CPUs. The WS series usually does. In any case there are plenty of consumer motherboards that support Xeon CPUs. Usually with the X99 or C232 or C236 chipsets.
ASRock E3V5
ASRock E3V5 WS
ASRock X99-WS
ASRock X99E-ITX/AC
ASRock X99 OC Formula/3.1
ASRock Fatal1ty X99 Professional/3.1
ASUS X99-E WS/USB 3.1
ASUS E3-PRO V5
GIGABYTE X99-Designare EX
GIGABYTE X170-EXTREME ECC This one is actually based on the C236 chipset.
There are plenty of consumer motherboards that support Xeon CPUs. Not only have I reviewed many of them, but I generally mention support for it when I do a review of such a motherboard. The first clue is usually the Xeon logo on the box.
ASRock E3V5
ASRock E3V5 WS
ASRock X99-WS
ASRock X99E-ITX/AC
ASRock X99 OC Formula/3.1
ASRock Fatal1ty X99 Professional/3.1
ASUS X99-E WS/USB 3.1
ASUS E3-PRO V5
GIGABYTE X99-Designare EX
GIGABYTE X170-EXTREME ECC This one is actually based on the C236 chipset.
There are plenty of consumer motherboards that support Xeon CPUs. Not only have I reviewed many of them, but I generally mention support for it when I do a review of such a motherboard. The first clue is usually the Xeon logo on the box.
lolfail9001
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Mobos you list all use either X99, C232 or C236. None of these use "consumer" Skylake chipset. That's the ultimate reason this thread even exists: will same fate await Skylake Xeons and new HEDT chipset?I was fairly certain the Z170-WS did support Xeon CPUs. The WS series usually does. In any case there are plenty of consumer motherboards that support Xeon CPUs. Usually with the X99 or C232 or C236 chipsets.
ASRock E3V5
ASRock E3V5 WS
ASRock X99-WS
ASRock X99E-ITX/AC
ASRock X99 OC Formula/3.1
ASRock Fatal1ty X99 Professional/3.1
ASUS X99-E WS/USB 3.1
ASUS E3-PRO V5
GIGABYTE X99-Designare EX
GIGABYTE X170-EXTREME ECC This one is actually based on the C236 chipset.
There are plenty of consumer motherboards that support Xeon CPUs. Not only have I reviewed many of them, but I generally mention support for it when I do a review of such a motherboard. The first clue is usually the Xeon logo on the box.
In general, what I'm saying is that vPro isn't strictly a Xeon related feature. It's supported at the chipset level. Xeon support isn't strictly tied to the chipsets either. I pointed out consumer motherboards that support Xeon CPUs.
No, this isn't required any longer. Physically, C612 and X99 are the same electrically. C236 and Z170 are very similar. C232 is electrically similar as well, but has less features. C236 supports vPro, C232 doesn't.
This is the post that brought up LGA2011 motherboards. Again, plenty of X99 motherboards support Xeon CPUs officially. vPro isn't supported by the chipset.
I recall seeing support for Xeon's on the Z170-WS motherboard from ASUS. I couldn't find those listed in any official documentation. So I am wrong about that. In any case, vPro isn't supported by the Z170 chipset anyway. No Q170 chipset based motherboards I know of support Xeon CPUs. Again, this isn't a hardware lock down as much as it is a matter of Xeon's not being validated on Q170 motherboards by the motherboard manufacturers. They have to put in the work to support them in BIOS. Again, it isn't an electrical or design issue.
Again, another poster brought up LGA2011 v3 CPUs. That's where the comments about X99 came from. C236 and Q170 are the only chipsets that support vPro that you can use a Skylake CPU with. Again, Q170 isn't likely to support a Xeon as the motherboards that offer that chipset aren't designed with that CPU in mind. It could work, and it might be possible to make that work if you want to mod the BIOS yourself. I'm not making such a recommendation, I'm simply saying that the BIOS is what's stopping you here. The C236 chipset does support vPro according to the ARK from Intel. Again the GIGABYTE X170-EXTREME ECC supports both Xeon CPUs and uses the C236 chipset. That's the best bet for someone wanting vPro and to use a Xeon based CPU. I'm not guaranteeing you can do what you want with it, but that's the only board I've found that fits the bill. Again, the PCH and CPU combinations aren't hardware locked. Skylake CPUs, be it Xeon or Core i5/i7 are virtually identical. They are interchangeable between chipsets within the same socket type.
I'm not sure what you are trying to say about Skylake Xeons and a new HEDT chipset.
No, this isn't required any longer. Physically, C612 and X99 are the same electrically. C236 and Z170 are very similar. C232 is electrically similar as well, but has less features. C236 supports vPro, C232 doesn't.
This is the post that brought up LGA2011 motherboards. Again, plenty of X99 motherboards support Xeon CPUs officially. vPro isn't supported by the chipset.
I recall seeing support for Xeon's on the Z170-WS motherboard from ASUS. I couldn't find those listed in any official documentation. So I am wrong about that. In any case, vPro isn't supported by the Z170 chipset anyway. No Q170 chipset based motherboards I know of support Xeon CPUs. Again, this isn't a hardware lock down as much as it is a matter of Xeon's not being validated on Q170 motherboards by the motherboard manufacturers. They have to put in the work to support them in BIOS. Again, it isn't an electrical or design issue.
Again, another poster brought up LGA2011 v3 CPUs. That's where the comments about X99 came from. C236 and Q170 are the only chipsets that support vPro that you can use a Skylake CPU with. Again, Q170 isn't likely to support a Xeon as the motherboards that offer that chipset aren't designed with that CPU in mind. It could work, and it might be possible to make that work if you want to mod the BIOS yourself. I'm not making such a recommendation, I'm simply saying that the BIOS is what's stopping you here. The C236 chipset does support vPro according to the ARK from Intel. Again the GIGABYTE X170-EXTREME ECC supports both Xeon CPUs and uses the C236 chipset. That's the best bet for someone wanting vPro and to use a Xeon based CPU. I'm not guaranteeing you can do what you want with it, but that's the only board I've found that fits the bill. Again, the PCH and CPU combinations aren't hardware locked. Skylake CPUs, be it Xeon or Core i5/i7 are virtually identical. They are interchangeable between chipsets within the same socket type.
I'm not sure what you are trying to say about Skylake Xeons and a new HEDT chipset.
lolfail9001
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Well, i suspect that E5 v5s (assuming Intel won't change the naming on a whim) will not work with new HEDT chipset. Yes, just like that.
Why do you suspect that? That's not the way it currently is or has been for the last several chipsets / HEDT CPUs.
lolfail9001
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Because of what has happened with E3 Xeons.
Not the same segment. While it could happen, there is no reason to believe that it will.
It's very clear that Intel doesn't want any overclocking of Xeons. The inability to use the E3 V5 chips with a consumer chipset is one sign, but their refusal to unlock even the top SKUs clearly states their stance on the issue. The hard locking of the E5-1600 V4 chips also strongly reinforces their position that there will be no Xeon overclocking of any kind. As the roadmap for Skylake-W (supposedly) includes HCC processors for the first time, it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest to see Intel block the Xeon from running on the new X chipset to ensure that no BCLK overclocking takes place.
People have been saying this about all Intel's processors since the Pentium days or earlier. I don't think Intel is worried about base clock tuning given that the chips can't do much of it anyway. As long as the clock generator is external as is the case with Skylake, to some extent Intel can't do much about it.
lolfail9001
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I think Intel screwed up if you think avoiding OC was their intention with E3 v5 move. Because we do have OC-able E3 Xeons for the first time since Sandy Bridge now.
And yes, Dan is right, external BCLK generator avoids any chipset issues, and i am fairly certain that EVGA or someone else would jump on the opportunity to release an SR-2 successor.
Intel has shown great concern with the Skylake non-K processors being overclocked and spent the time amd effort to block it through microcode. To me, this shows that they'll allow overclocking on the processors they choose to unlock and aggressively block it on those they choose to lock. They've also disabled the ability to force the top turbo multiplier across all cores of an E3.
I also recall reading about anti-OC technology that Intel created around 2003 that would prevent overclocking.
Intel granted overclocking blocking patent
I'm sure Intel has investigated the overclocking of the E3 V5 chips on boards with actual C2xx chipsets and have engaged in aggressive and detailed research into how it can be blocked. And Intel has some of the best engineers in the world. Such investigation is unlikely to end well...for us.
Now don't get me wrong. If some board maker manages to create an uber-WS board with two 3647 sockets on it that is BCLK overclockable, I will be the first in line for it. Even if we get a single 3647 socket system that can overclock, it would be huge.
Dual Skylake-EX+Overclockable dual 3647 motherboard=fun...
What people fail to understand is that Intel and the motherboard manufacturers are engaged in a struggle not unlike that of software companies and software pirates. The former thinks of some DRM to protect their intellectual property while the other figures out how to break it. The DRM usually doesn't win out for very long before its beaten. CPUs and locking them down works much the same way.
Again, as long as the clock generator is external Intel can only do so much to prevent it. Motherboard manufacturers like ASUS can and have employed various BIOS code to work around microcode before. ASUS, GIGABYTE, etc. are very adept and keeping these chips overclockable. I've discussed this at length with Intel, ASUS and GIGABYTE. Intel has even stated that going back to an external clock generator was done because motherboard manufacturers (their customers) requested it.
Intel locking down specific CPUs is something they have done and will no doubt continue to do. Intel will still always maintain enthusiast friendly chips, even potentially in the Xeon line as long as it will make them money in the long run. Intel does a lot of things to appease customers for that reason.
Again, as long as the clock generator is external Intel can only do so much to prevent it. Motherboard manufacturers like ASUS can and have employed various BIOS code to work around microcode before. ASUS, GIGABYTE, etc. are very adept and keeping these chips overclockable. I've discussed this at length with Intel, ASUS and GIGABYTE. Intel has even stated that going back to an external clock generator was done because motherboard manufacturers (their customers) requested it.
Intel locking down specific CPUs is something they have done and will no doubt continue to do. Intel will still always maintain enthusiast friendly chips, even potentially in the Xeon line as long as it will make them money in the long run. Intel does a lot of things to appease customers for that reason.
I have spoken to Intel at fairly high levels on this point, and they assure me that the Xeon line (even the top SKUs) will not be unlocked in any way, shape, or form due to the potential risk that having any chips unlocked would pose to the Xeon brand. This is a weak argument at best on Intel's part, as the E5-1600 series have been unlocked for years with no detriment or harm to the Xeon line. Additionally, server boards, especially OEM boards, lack any kind of tweaking ability whatsoever. For Intel to even to consider unlocking some Xeons, a massive and monumental paradigm shift in their stance on the issue would be required and personally, I don't see such a change happening in light of their recent and past behavior on the issue. The ONLY way I can see something like this occuring is if AMD pulls a very large rabbit out of their hat with Naples and puts out a competitive 2x4 successor based on this chip. Given their rather tenuous financial position, I highly doubt AMD is capable of allocating scarse resources to such a product, even if they were willing to produce it.
JediFonger
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thx for the response!!
i see some c236 chipsets now but the specs dont always list vpro supported
i see some c236 chipsets now but the specs dont always list vpro supported