White House Calls for End to ISS Funding in 2025

mope54 said:
Sounds like a fantastic idea. Do you think anyone tried that before SS was implemented? Maybe there was a good reason for society to implement SS...perhaps there's something on wikipedia about the social and political context surrounding designing social security.
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You smartass haha.
 
For those too lazy to google it (this guy) once this is decommissioned what is the plan for it?

Is it going to just float around in space
 
Mike Hawk said:
For those too lazy to google it (this guy) once this is decommissioned what is the plan for it?

Is it going to just float around in space
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As of the last time I looked, the same way they do anything else in orbit. The bring it down on a trajectory that will burn it up, or one that will crash it in some remote location in the ocean.
 
SilverSliver said:
Easy. First strike of welfare fraud of any sort gets you 5 years of being off welfare. Second strike is permanent loss of benefits. Make the punishment for defrauding the system so severe, that someone who really needs the support would not even think about jeopardizing it. The people who are really good at hiding it will continue to do so, least for a while. The rest will get caught, eventually. Everyone else uses the system for its intended purpose.
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Welfare, for all intents and purposes, ceased to exist in the 1990s. But don't let that stop you. ;)
 
Well with the current administration I'd say there's a good chance of there being quite a few flat-earthers present, so this doesn't surprise me in the slightest.
 
Mike Hawk said:
For those too lazy to google it (this guy) once this is decommissioned what is the plan for it?

Is it going to just float around in space
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It will steadily lose altitude and eventually burn up after a couple years without reboosts. ISS is at a low altitude where atmospheric drag is still a major force over those time scales. Skylab was parked in a somewhat higher orbit and lasted 5 years before re-entry.

Some of the ISS partners (mostly Russia) have considered re-purposing their old ISS modules for new stations.
 
bugleyman said:
Just to be clear, are you suggesting that you'd be comfortable with hospitals turning away desperately ill people (and make no mistake, most uninsured very often are desperately ill by the time they go to the hospital) because they can't afford treatment?
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Desperately ill my ass. I have family members (and know many others) that do exactly what he is talking about and have the same issue he does.

Have a cough or little bit of a sore throat, instead of going to their dr like a normal person they go to the ER. Had an aunt once that had a burn and was supposed to change the dressing every other day for a week they gave her all the supplies day one. Instead of doing that she went to the ER every time to have them remove the old gauze and tape on a new one. The dr even yelled at her about people like her abusing the system causing people to have to pay out more in taxes for Medicare and Medicaid.

most people I know would run to the ER over any minor thing because as they put it "I am not paying for it".

If truly sick and in need of ER assistance that would be bad to turn them away. However for people that use the ER as their family dr because they don't care since they don't pay for it. I agree that at some point they should be able to be turned away id the ER staff doesn't think their illness is ER worthy.
 
Exavior said:
Desperately ill my ass. I have family members (and know many others) that do exactly what he is talking about and have the same issue he does.

Have a cough or little bit of a sore throat, instead of going to their dr like a normal person they go to the ER. Had an aunt once that had a burn and was supposed to change the dressing every other day for a week they gave her all the supplies day one. Instead of doing that she went to the ER every time to have them remove the old gauze and tape on a new one. The dr even yelled at her about people like her abusing the system causing people to have to pay out more in taxes for Medicare and Medicaid.

most people I know would run to the ER over any minor thing because as they put it "I am not paying for it".

If truly sick and in need of ER assistance that would be bad to turn them away. However for people that use the ER as their family dr because they don't care since they don't pay for it. I agree that at some point they should be able to be turned away id the ER staff doesn't think their illness is ER worthy.
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And all that means nothing.
This shit is studied, and individual fraud is quite low.. like when the expected outcome of drug testing welfare recipients was going to be everyone on welfare was going to be a drug user, guess what? they are not, the rates so low the programs usually can't pay for itself (beside eventually knocked down as illegal but whatever)
Fraud in government is talked about as if large companies don't suffer the same, at different sometimes higher rates, just WTF, these are big programs, shit is going to happen. Bullshit Fox News anecdotes mean nothing, and expecting 0 fraud in any large economic activity of our society is fucking ridiculous. What is the fraud rate of our military? 200%, 1000%? no concerns there right?
https://www.theatlantic.com/politic...ntional-wisdom-about-government-fraud/278690/
 
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Here is a story people need to understand. In college I was forced to read a book based on Brazilian culture back in the days of what would have been our cowboys and Indians. In that time if a woman cheated on a man the man was to kill her and her lover. The book was about a guy who did not do this and forgave her. Think carefully about that, not even the threat of death stopped them from cheating. Both parties knew what was expected and neither stopped. What I am pointing out is that a lot of people fail to understand just how powerful the emotional drive of many humans is. As I grew older more and more I came to appreciate just how lucky I was to not be susceptible to many things that might be termed mental disorders or addictive behavior and it can apply to anything. You can watch a person destroy everything great in their life over emotional issues, its not like the movies where people do bad things because there is some million dollar payout if they get away with it. Watch a couple divorce and destroy a home over not leaving a toilet seat down, oh the end result you hear is someone cheated, but why did they cheat? Because of an emotional rift because someone kept leaving the toilet seat up explain how people operating with those emotional drives are going to respond to rational decision making.


Ski said:
Everything you said was spot on and I agree with, mostly because I've witnessed and experienced this countless times before. Now... my question to you is how do you feel about Universal Basic Income? I'm only asking because your talking points in reference to cyclone3d's ideas squares mostly around the fact people are more resourceful and intuitive in terms of figuring out the loop holes to the system, and the more rules and regulations you put in place will never succeed. With that said, what are your thoughts on UBI and what kind of impact it would have on those recipients we've alluded to.
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Ultimately all systems are about implementation. I think UBI depending on the implementation could work and I would prefer that system but that would be a massive discussion for some other thread. The main thing I will say is that I do believe that UBI could be great if implemented well. And personally I think it would encourage a large number of people to manage their money better of the ones that are capable of doing so and just pushed the wrong way by the rules of the current system.

SilverSliver said:
Easy. First strike of welfare fraud of any sort gets you 5 years of being off welfare. Second strike is permanent loss of benefits. Make the punishment for defrauding the system so severe, that someone who really needs the support would not even think about jeopardizing it. The people who are really good at hiding it will continue to do so, least for a while. The rest will get caught, eventually. Everyone else uses the system for its intended purpose.
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Its going to cost a lot of money to catch people doing this, but here is the thing, it won't stop them see my first paragraph. The human mind is nowhere near that logical. Many of the people on assistance are mentally weaker and more susceptible to being misled, or just having weak moments and making a mistake that's how many ended up there, on top of the ones that are just malicious. Do you really want these people roaming the streets, destroying children's lives, and all the other issues that will happen if they don't have any help? Stop thinking about it as a person leaching off your hard earned tax dollars and start thinking about it as paying insurance to keep society more stable and safe so you and you kids can enjoy a better life in just the same way you pay for law enforcement or government services.
 
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bugleyman said:
I'm saying we need to stop arguing about what shouldn't be cut. Your'e going on about why we don't need to cut the military. What's hard to understand? ;)
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I think you are the one that is truly missing the point here. I wasn't going on about why we "shouldn't" cut the military, but where that is the scapegoat preventing real change. The politicians have used that to fool the public, since they know they actually can't feasible cut the military with the current world climate. But it presents a nice distraction so they don't have to cut domestic programs which is where they can actually start right now without the same repercussions.
 
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