What power supply would you pick?

I

ignitionxvi

Limp Gawd
Joined
Apr 17, 2004
Messages
324
Hey Guys,

I've been looking at power supplies and i've basically boiled it down to these three:

PCP&C Silencer 410 ATX
http://www.pcpowerandcooling.com/products/power_supplies/ultra_quiet/silencers/index.htm
Hopefully it would be quiet, have good lines and be very quality
$85

Antec True 430
http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=270007
This is what i had always assumed i would get, but now its price/performance doesn't seem so well especially compared to the PCP&C.
$76

Sparkle Power FSP400-60PNU
http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=270529
This is what i had been looking at also because its an FSP which is supposed to be high quality, and its cheaper than the competition.
$57.99

The big question is whether the PCP&C is worth the extra money over the sparkle. Right now i have an old Sparkle 400w power supply which has done me well over the past 3 years. Thanks for all the comments.
 
Another option to further confuse you would be a Sparkle/Forton 530/550w from newegg :)

You might actually want to look further into the matter. Comb some of these threads and you'll see what i mean.
 
The order you have them in is what I would consider the order of best to worst :)

Is the PCP&C worth the extra over the Sparkle, yes.
 
the PCP&C while a good supply aint no Turbo Cool
it has standard ATX12V rail specs at 5% regulation
same goes for ripple and it has a single +12V rail

My current Recommendations across the pricing range

Best
PC Power & Cooling Turbo Cool 510 (600 watt for comparision) ordered with a custom harness and adapters, with split +12V rails likely around $275 (Base price $200)
Im going to get some bids on this unit with the split rails so I can definatively say what it costs

High Mid
Antec NeoPower 480 Watt ATX12V v2.0 Compliant with all the assorted connectors to see you into the next gen of video cards and mobos $120 (w\ instant rebate)
(24 & 20 pin w\ adapter, 6 pin PCI Express Video connector, lots of SATA options)

Budget
Fortron Source FSP530-60GNA 530 Watt ATX12V compatible (not compliant single +12V rail) 20 Pin Main Connector $75
 
Ice Czar said:
the PCP&C while a good supply aint no Turbo Cool
it has standard ATX12V rail specs at 5% regulation
same goes for ripple and it has a single +12V rail

My current Recommendations across the pricing range

Best
PC Power & Cooling Turbo Cool 510 (600 watt for comparision) ordered with a custom harness and adapters, with split +12V rails likely around $275 (Base price $200)
Im going to get some bids on this unit with the split rails so I can definatively say what it costs

High Mid
Antec NeoPower 480 Watt ATX12V v2.0 Compliant with all the assorted connectors to see you into the next gen of video cards and mobos $120 (w\ instant rebate)
(24 & 20 pin w\ adapter, 6 pin PCI Express Video connector, lots of SATA options)

Budget
Fortron Source FSP530-60GNA 530 Watt ATX12V compatible (not compliant single +12V rail) 20 Pin Main Connector $75
Click to expand...

do you know when they are coming out with the 380watt neopower? My computer will only have 1 optical and 1 hard disk drive, so i don't think i need 500W+
 
ignitionxvi said:
do you know when they are coming out with the 380watt neopower? My computer will only have 1 optical and 1 hard disk drive, so i don't think i need 500W+
Click to expand...

You likely dont, but I wouldnt hold my breath
with PCI Express on the horizonAmps will be jumping quite alot
not to mention the power hungry CPUs and Video Cards
I dont see them undercutting their flagship soon,


an alternative Id recommend would be an Enermax NoiseTaker 420 (that is ATX12V v2.0 compliant w\ dual rails and a 24 pin main)
and a 24 pin to 20 pin main connector adapter (you can get a 6 pin PCI-Ex Vid adaptor when needed Id imagine)
only problem is I dont know where to get one, the ones at newegg are single rail according to the listing
the ones listed at Enermax USA (Maxpoint) are dual rail but have 20 pin mains (v1.3)
the ones listed at the maain Enermax site (tw) are 2.0 compliant (24 pin)
but I dont even see them at Enermax USA

and of course they all have the same model number :p

note the
EG710P-VE or AX
EG425P-VE or AX
EG375P-VE or AX
EG325P-VE or AX
EG275P-VE or AX all have dual rails that are pretty evenly split

but the EG475P-VE or AX has what amounts to a single rail
+12V1 @ 33A and +12V2 @ 1A (of course this is the most popular model)

so.....
You could get a EG425P-VE but might have Issues later since it has the 20 pin $69
and im not sure it actually has dual rails, and its listed at just 15A for the single rail ????
and has an invalid product link

clear as mud aint it :p

(AX designates a Power Factor Corrected (PFC) version of the same supply)
 
i've actually got one of Antec's new Neopower units on order...looking freakin' good too, i might add.

cheers,

dave
 
Ice Czar said:
You likely dont, but I wouldnt hold my breath
with PCI Express on the horizonAmps will be jumping quite alot
not to mention the power hungry CPUs and Video Cards
I dont see them undercutting their flagship soon,


an alternative Id recommend would be an Enermax NoiseTaker 420 (that is ATX12V v2.0 compliant w\ dual rails and a 24 pin main)
and a 24 pin to 20 pin main connector adapter (you can get a 6 pin PCI-Ex Vid adaptor when needed Id imagine)
only problem is I dont know where to get one, the ones at newegg are single rail according to the listing
the ones listed at Enermax USA (Maxpoint) are dual rail but have 20 pin mains (v1.3)
the ones listed at the maain Enermax site (tw) are 2.0 compliant (24 pin)
but I dont even see them at Enermax USA

and of course they all have the same model number :p

note the
EG710P-VE or AX
EG425P-VE or AX
EG375P-VE or AX
EG325P-VE or AX
EG275P-VE or AX all have dual rails that are pretty evenly split

but the EG475P-VE or AX has what amounts to a single rail
+12V1 @ 33A and +12V2 @ 1A (of course this is the most popular model)

so.....
You could get a EG425P-VE but might have Issues later since it has the 20 pin $69
and im not sure it actually has dual rails, and its listed at just 15A for the single rail ????
and has an invalid product link

clear as mud aint it :p

(AX designates a Power Factor Corrected (PFC) version of the same supply)
Click to expand...

here is the 2 rail enermax
http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=270321
edit: yeah its ATX 1.3
 
Ice Czar said:
the PCP&C while a good supply aint no Turbo Cool
it has standard ATX12V rail specs at 5% regulation
same goes for ripple and it has a single +12V rail

My current Recommendations across the pricing range

Best
PC Power & Cooling Turbo Cool 510 (600 watt for comparision) ordered with a custom harness and adapters, with split +12V rails likely around $275 (Base price $200)
Im going to get some bids on this unit with the split rails so I can definatively say what it costs

High Mid
Antec NeoPower 480 Watt ATX12V v2.0 Compliant with all the assorted connectors to see you into the next gen of video cards and mobos $120 (w\ instant rebate)
(24 & 20 pin w\ adapter, 6 pin PCI Express Video connector, lots of SATA options)

Budget
Fortron Source FSP530-60GNA 530 Watt ATX12V compatible (not compliant single +12V rail) 20 Pin Main Connector $75
Click to expand...
I think that the high-wattage recommendations are overblown, unless you intend to overclock the f**k out of your system. All three of those PSUs are extremely loud and noisy - can reach more than 100dBA SPL at a distance of 50 feet from the PC even at idle. (Okay, I'm just joking on the last part.)
Actually, they all are loud enough to be a nuisance, even in the average living room.

And the need to use separate rails makes sense only if you're planning to do anything insane with your PC. In fact, some PSUs with separate rails for each voltage turn out to be crappier and provide dirtier voltage than some PSUs that use shared rails. And among the shared-rail types, the PCP&C quiet PSUs are among the best of that type. The Antec TruePower 430 was good when it first came out, but has been falling behind the times somewhat. The Sparkle PSU is a rebadged Fortron unit, which should provide high, reliable power - if only its +12V rail were a bit stronger.

By the way, my current system never needed more than 200W total. But most "400W" PSUs barely deliver more than 200 real watts, since most were rated at a temperature of 20°C or 25°C - and the typical operating temperture of most PSUs is in the 40°C to 50°C range.
 
generally Id agree, only there are alot of other variables
the increasing senitivity and exotic nature of the various VRM schemes on mobos
the increasing demands of PCI-E, and video cards
they too are drawing on the +12V very heavily adding additional dynamic load
and of course anyone running alot of drives

any PSU that has a decent transient response will do for now
but the spec was developed for a reason
thus when I make recommendations for futureproofing Im pretty cautious
 
Ice Czar said:
generally Id agree, only there are alot of other variables
the increasing senitivity and exotic nature of the various VRM schemes on mobos
the increasing demands of PCI-E, and video cards
they too are drawing on the +12V very heavily adding additional dynamic load
and of course anyone running alot of drives

any PSU that has a decent transient response will do for now
but the spec was developed for a reason
thus when I make recommendations for futureproofing Im pretty cautious
Click to expand...

yes E4g1e, Ice is right, you should buy for ATX12v 2.0, as it would be foolish to ignore an otherwise ominous change in hardware that is coming. Besides, if you were to look closely at the 1.4 and I think even the 1.3 specs, they call for seperate 12v rails. I suppose it took till 2.0 for everyone to actually produce seperate 12v rails.
 
O2Flow said:
yes E4g1e, Ice is right, you should buy for ATX12v 2.0, as it would be foolish to ignore an otherwise ominous change in hardware that is coming. Besides, if you were to look closely at the 1.4 and I think even the 1.3 specs, they call for seperate 12v rails. I suppose it took till 2.0 for everyone to actually produce seperate 12v rails.
Click to expand...
And with all that increase in power demands, it won't be long before every single power supply unit will produce greater than 130dBA loudness levels (in fact, much louder than even the most powerful home stereo system at full blast).

Okay, that paragraph assumes that the PSU makers change absolutely nothing at all whatsoever on their fan or heatsink designs. That fan would have to spin at tens of thousands of RPM just to keep all that heat under control. But it would take major - and ultra-expensive - changes in both designs in order to keep both the heat and the noise under control. And we all will end up paying dearly out of our wallets for that.

Oh, and by the way, ATX12V 1.3 or 1.4 didn't exactly require separate 12V rails - though those specs recommended separate 12V rails.
 
specs also call for more efficent designs to address that at least in part
some PSUs out there are at 80% currently under some loads
and there are switching power supplies that are above 90% but not for the PC yet
 
Oh, Ice Czar, I've just looked at the PCP&C Turbo-Cool 510 Deluxe, and its noise specs indicate that it should be no noisier overall than the same company's standard 250W PSU. Thus, most of the time the Turbo-Cool 510 should be moderately quiet.

My gosh, that really makes my current Antec TrueControl 550 feel lame - not only is it relatively noisy, but its +12V rail delivers only 24A. And it really produces only about 370 real watts. And though it uses separate +3.3V and +5V rails, it doesn't claim ATX12V v1.3 compliance (it cannot anyway, since it uses a single +12V rail).

Boy, did I feel dumb buying that TrueControl 550, seeing that I could have bought a PCP&C Silencer 360 ATX for a lot less $$$ - and get virtually the same level of performance as that Antec TrueControl/TruePower 550 PSU. :eek:
 
E4g1e said:
Boy, did I feel dumb buying that TrueControl 550, seeing that I could have bought a PCP&C Silencer 360 ATX for a lot less $$$ - and get virtually the same level of performance as that Antec TrueControl/TruePower 550 PSU. :eek:
Click to expand...
Nah, the Antec still has better regulation, the Silencer line isn't really very impressive
 
Vertigo Acid said:
Nah, the Antec still has better regulation, the Silencer line isn't really very impressive
Click to expand...
You may be right. The Silencer line uses that older design with a shared +3.3V/+5V rail - and that alone can degrade the overall regulation.

Oh, by the way, I was considering replacing the TrueControl 550 with a PCP&C TurboCool 425 Deluxe. But then, I've read its specs, and found out that its +12V rail delivers only 20A maximum. That is less than the 24A rating on the TrueControl 550's +12V rail.

And speaking of my TrueControl 550, it was the first PSU that I've ever bought which used separate +3.3V and +5V rails. Every one of my previous PSUs used the old-school design with a shared +3.3V/+5V rail.
 
Vertigo Acid said:
20a @ 40 degress vs 24a @ 25 degrees. That's a big difference
Click to expand...
Doesn't make me feel all that bad for wanting to upgrade my PSU.
 
As for noise my PCPower and Cooling 510 deluxe is just as noisy if not a little bit more than the Antec 550 W PSU I had before.

But Ice Czar Vertigo Acid says you have spoken with pcpower and cooling tech and they said the 510 deluxe don´t have 2 12 V rails? But now you say they have or is that just the custom built PSU they sell?

Is there any disadvantages with split 12 V rails? Say you have devices that needs a lot of Current like my Vapochill XE and 6800 ULTRA?
 
Twinkie said:
Ice Czar, could you please enlighten me as to what (not compliant single +12V rail) means here?
Click to expand...
The ATX12V 1.3 spec recommends split +12V rails. But PSU makers didn't have to follow that recommendation in order to claim compatibility with that spec.
 
oqvist said:
Is there any disadvantages with split 12 V rails? Say you have devices that needs a lot of Current like my Vapochill XE and 6800 ULTRA?
Click to expand...

well the advantage of a single +12V rail is that its available to any component connected to the supply
when you split it typically (and Id need to check the ATSX12V v2.0 spec) about half goes to the mobo (VRM>CPU, and AGP) the rest being available to the other components?
(Im a little murky on AGP issues and its under investigation, since part of that is through the bus, and then there is the supplemental power, and how that is dealt with on the cards in relationship to the seperate rails is something I havent determined)

in EPS12V its like this
6.1.1 12V Power Rail Configuration

There are two types of 12V rail configurations for systems: 'Common plane' and "Split plane' processor power delivery. The 'commob plane' system has both processors powered from a single 12V rail (+12V1) from the power supply. The 'split plane' system has both processors powered by seperate 12V rails (+12V1 and +12V2) one dedicated to each processor. The system in both cases, has an additional 12V rail to power the rest of the baseboard +12V loads and dc/dc converters. +12V1, +12V2 and +12V3 should not be connected together on the baseboard to ensure that 240VA protection circuits in the power supply operate properly

Table 6: 12V Rail Summary
........................................................................................................................................................................................
Common Plane System........................................................Split Plane System
+12V1........Processors.........................................................+12V1........Processor 1
+12V2........Baseboard components other than processors.......+12V2........Processor 2
+12V3........Drives and peripherals..........................................+12V3........Baseboards and components other than processors
...........................................................................................+12V4........Drives and peripherals
Click to expand...
with triple or quad rails, to isolate any transient load

with most PSU this would be a great advantage
but a PCP&C has a transient response in the 1% range so its isnt nearly the issue it would be in say a supply that is at 5%,
however, if you have a config where your introducing serious transient loads, there could be an advantage even with a PCP&C
say you running a whole hell of alot of HDDs
 
darktiger said:
PCP&C Silencer 410 ATX is my vote
Click to expand...

while undoubtably a very high quality PSU
in my mind its the Turbo Cools with the 1% voltage regulation and the 10mV ripple on the +3.3V, +5V, and +12V thats makes PCP&C the brand its is

having not seen if the 5% regulation and the ripple listed in the specs for that supply are overly conservative
Id at this point opt for a dual rail in that price range with similar or better voltage regulation
 
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