Volition shutdown. Saints row dev.

Sucks for the employees, Embracer was really hoping for all that Dubai money and that got denied so I bet they are scrambling hard over there.
 
Embracer seems to be quickly becoming the new EA in terms of buying up IP and studios with successful IP, running them into the ground, and then killing them off.

I'm a little concerned what they're going to do with Deus Ex and Tomb Raider.
 
Ebernanut said:
Embracer seems to be quickly becoming the new EA in terms of buying up IP and studios with successful IP, running them into the ground, and then killing them off.
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Not at all. This is entirely self inflicted by volition, they got woke and went broke all on their own. They were literally apologizing for previous saints row games, and made the new one for "modern audiences". It also didn't help that the gameplay was utter garbage too.

So nothing of value is lost here. The volition of past died long ago.

Lakados said:
Sucks for the employees, Embracer was really hoping for all that Dubai money and that got denied so I bet they are scrambling hard over there.
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I have little sympathy for the employees who made the saints row reboot.
 
M76 said:
Not at all. This is entirely self inflicted by volition, they got woke and went broke all on their own. They were literally apologizing for previous saints row games, and made the new one for "modern audiences". It also didn't help that the gameplay was utter garbage too.

So nothing of value is lost here. The volition of past died long ago.
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I think you're right that they were no longer the Volition of old but that's because they drove off all the old talent with the way they handled SR4. Which is fitting in a way because while the game was alright it kind of felt like a jump the shark moment for the series.

They did the same thing with Risen(the Gothic successor) and went all in on the pirate thing because it was trendy but in the end killed the series off with that and the overall watered down nature over the last two games.

It seems like they've done the same to a couple of other series too that I can't recall because I didn't care for them personally but it's definitely a trend at this point IMO and it feels a lot like Bullfrog, Maxis, etc.(soon to be Bioware).
 
Hmm....yet another episode of "so that's why it's that way....."
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Hmm yes, at first I was shocked and sad, but after a little research into Volition's activities, I realize that shutting them down is the right move.
It would have been easy for a person at Embracer to go to Volition HQ and done a quick interview, and then leave that HQ with a sad, but knowing smile.

There's nothing there to save. Let it burn.

Oh, and one more thing: The original team behind Descent also created a 2018 game called "Overload." You can find it here. https://www.gog.com/en/game/overload

But on the other hand .... There's also this. https://www.dxx-rebirth.com/
 
1337Goat said:
The original team behind Descent also created a 2018 game called "Overload." You can find it here. https://www.gog.com/en/game/overload
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My single best memory of playing Descent was in the computer science lab in college. I was whipping down a square tunnel that twisted clockwise as it went (like you'd see on some wrought iron bannisters[1]) and I was rotating the opposite direction. Someone came up behind me, started to ask "oh, are you playing Doom?", got about half the question out, gagged, and ran out of the room.

I'm guessing he never got into VR in later years.

[1]

1693587033329.png
 
1_rick said:
My single best memory of playing Descent was in the computer science lab in college. I was whipping down a square tunnel that twisted clockwise as it went (like you'd see on some wrought iron bannisters[1]) and I was rotating the opposite direction. Someone came up behind me, started to ask "oh, are you playing Doom?", got about half the question out, gagged, and ran out of the room.

I'm guessing he never got into VR in later years.
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Oh yessss, I actually played Overload a little bit on my old Oculus Rift DK2, and WOWZA.

I'm lucky I was sooooo young when I first started playing Descent. My mind functions natively in 6DOF 3D space at this point.

Truth be told, I haven't actually played through the Overload singleplayer campaign yet because I'm still waiting for a "perfect" generation of VR.
I've been feeling like VR as a technology just needs a tiny bit more development time, but honestly, I think the time is literally next gen.

So I might as well start preparing for descent.
 
After Freespace 2 these guys really fell off their peak. I respect them for one of the great classics, but hey it is what it is.
 
What I never understood about Descent was why they didn't do something to correct the perspective on the miners you were supposed to be rescuing........you were the person in a space ship in these tunnels, ok that implies you're in something the size of, what, a modern fighter jet lets say...larger even. But you are in these massive mines, ok, got it.

Then suddenly you come upon a door and....it's like enormous, and the person behind it...enormous.....it's like my brain couldn't tell if I was suddenly a guy in a space-ship that was literally the same size as these mining guys, or they were fucking giants. It was this one little thing that kept deal-breaking my immersion in the game.

Dunno, anyone else or...just me....

Ultimately I thought Forsaken was a better game of this "style"...but things got better with Descent 2, and ultimately Freespace (if my memory is not failing me)....
 
So we're not getting Freespace 3 now, well fuck me.
This would be a perfect time to the series free for the week on GOG, Steam or Epic.......
 
The Mad Atheist said:
So we're not getting Freespace 3 now, well fuck me.
This would be a perfect time to the series free for the week on GOG, Steam or Epic.......
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Eh, I wouldn't count that out just yet. You might still get a Freespace 3 eventually, but it won't be by what we used to know as Volition.
 
M76 said:
Not at all. This is entirely self inflicted by volition, they got woke and went broke all on their own. They were literally apologizing for previous saints row games, and made the new one for "modern audiences". It also didn't help that the gameplay was utter garbage too.
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The game was hardly that woke, it wasn't that much more woke than SR4. The problem was... everything was bad about it. Gameplay, mission design, story, bullet spongy enemies, loading screen & teleporting the player once accepting a mission, repeating Ubisoft style side activities, bad audio and even the graphics looked lame.
 
Flogger23m said:
The game was hardly that woke, it wasn't that much more woke than SR4. The problem was... everything was bad about it. Gameplay, mission design, story, bullet spongy enemies, loading screen & teleporting the player once accepting a mission, repeating Ubisoft style side activities, bad audio and even the graphics looked lame.
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The trailers suggested it was not just stereotypically but absurdly woke. If it really wasn't then why did they go out of their way to make you think that it was? Everything around the marketing and their interview tour was about "modern audiences" and how what they did in previous games is no longer acceptable.
 
M76 said:
The trailers suggested it was not just stereotypically but absurdly woke. If it really wasn't then why did they go out of their way to make you think that it was? Everything around the marketing and their interview tour was about "modern audiences" and how what they did in previous games is no longer acceptable.
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Yeah, I usually scoff at the "go woke, go broke" thing, but I think it actually applies in this case. It was almost a parody of a game going woke, but they meant it in earnest (within the context of a Saints Row game).
 
Markus Guitarus said:
Yeah, I usually scoff at the "go woke, go broke" thing, but I think it actually applies in this case. It was almost a parody of a game going woke, but they meant it in earnest (within the context of a Saints Row game).
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It's not really putting woke ideology in their game that makes a studio go broke, it's adopting it as a company strategy. Start hiring people based on politics rather than experience and talent and this is the result.
 
M76 said:
The trailers suggested it was not just stereotypically but absurdly woke. If it really wasn't then why did they go out of their way to make you think that it was? Everything around the marketing and their interview tour was about "modern audiences" and how what they did in previous games is no longer acceptable.
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I actually played the game. It isn't that woke at all. I think there is maybe one character who is gay, but you can say the same for SR4.

The problem is everything else. It does get a bit better at the end, but that "better" is still below average. Actual side gigs are copy/pasted from SR3/4. Which aren't awful, but they aren't that interesting and weren't in SR3/4. NPCs are dumb, mission design is poor, missions are short, lots of loading screens to set up a mission, just all kinds of things to pull you out of the game. Where it isn't outright bad, it is bland.
 
Flogger23m said:
The game was hardly that woke, it wasn't that much more woke than SR4. The problem was... everything was bad about it. Gameplay, mission design, story, bullet spongy enemies, loading screen & teleporting the player once accepting a mission, repeating Ubisoft style side activities, bad audio and even the graphics looked lame.
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Perhaps his idea of woke differs from yours?
 
I would say that whether or not a game has interesting or unique characters is less important than if it adheres to some sort of ideology, as if the game itself was propaganda for a specific agenda, rather than just the general feelings or ideas of the creators. So it's not so much a game being woke or not, but the same could be true for a game where you play as a medieval crusader, but it just happens to also have really irritating implications that the player should convert to a specific religion or political party sort of thing.

So in the case of Volition, it would seem as if the people at the top were really trying to get a certain "message" into the game, which would supersede a narrative that's actually intriguing or fun. That's my take on it, at least, based on how a game like Red Dead Redemption II can have the Irish, Native Americans, strong females, Blacks, Whites, crossdressers, and even a preacher, but the game itself never feels like it's preaching. It's simply sharing ideas that we as a player can admire from the perspective of our character, rather than feel like the game designers are trying to directly manipulate the player using media as the medium.
 
Markus Guitarus said:
Yeah, I usually scoff at the "go woke, go broke" thing, but I think it actually applies in this case. It was almost a parody of a game going woke, but they meant it in earnest (within the context of a Saints Row game).
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"Go woke, go broke" is the opposite of reality. Ever heard of Blackrock, Larry Fink, or ESG scores? The reality of the situation is literally the opposite of what people are claiming here. Going "woke" is really about sacrificing artistic integrity for financial security.

Wouldn't be surprised if this thread gets closed for being too political, as if anything actually exists in a non-political context.
 
M76 said:
I'm not sure we are on the same page about what being woke is.
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Maybe, but I've yet to hear any real examples about what is "woke" about the recent SR game. Any examples?

1337Goat said:
So in the case of Volition, it would seem as if the people at the top were really trying to get a certain "message" into the game, which would supersede a narrative that's actually intriguing or fun.
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If they was their intent they absolutely failed at it, because it didn't come off like that in any way whatsoever.
 
Flogger23m said:
Maybe, but I've yet to hear any real examples about what is "woke" about the recent SR game. Any examples?
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I can only go by the trailers, as it was enough to dissuade me from even looking at the game itself.
It seemed woke because of the typical unfeminine girlboss protagonist with the mental illness haircut, the shirtless dude, who wants to pay off his student debt as a story arc. The shirtless dude is especially typical woke hypocrisy because they always advocate to not sexualize and cover up women, but then make these hypersexualized dumb macho dudebimbos for themselves. Or bestiality fantasies a'la BG3. It all comes down to if it makes a straight male horny it is bad, if it makes nonbinary alphabet community member horny then it is good.

This is basically wokeness in a nutshell.
 
One of my first FPSs and one of my favorite games to this day is Red Faction II. Was a fun single player game and a great multiplayer (if on console).
 
I'm not entirely wade into wakednes debate. I will say that I loved Red Faction: Guerilla and enjoyed Saints Row the Third. Personally even though I never played GTA online I think that in order for Volition to garner a any mind share, let alone try to compete. They would have to offer just as much content out of the box. It's like how every MMO post WoW was set up to fail.
 
t1337duder said:
"Go woke, go broke" is the opposite of reality. Ever heard of Blackrock, Larry Fink, or ESG scores? The reality of the situation is literally the opposite of what people are claiming here. Going "woke" is really about sacrificing artistic integrity for financial security.
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True. Raz0rfist sums it up nicely :


View: https://youtu.be/JF4ZFj3c76I
 
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M76 said:
I can only go by the trailers, as it was enough to dissuade me from even looking at the game itself.
It seemed woke because of the typical unfeminine girlboss protagonist with the mental illness haircut,
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Addressing this specifically, not the rest: the character creator in-game offers and absurd range of options (if you played SR3 or 4, it's more or less the same). So definitely a marketing choice and a bad one, but what was shown in the trailer as the boss character is not something being forced on the player. I didn't buy or play the new one, I don't think I ever finished SR4, it was just too absurd, so I looked up a video of character creation.
 
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LodeRunner said:
Addressing this specifically, not the rest: the character creator in-game offers and absurd range of options (if you played SR3 or 4, it's more or less the same). So definitely a marketing choice and a bad one, but what was shown in the trailer as the boss character is not something being forced on the player. I didn't buy or play the new one, I don't think I ever finished SR4, it was just too absurd, so I looked up a video of character creation.
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I know that, but I assumed their marketing is representative of the product. Even if I could create a character that looks any way I want, I'd still not enjoy the game if the characters talk like in the trailer, and the game has a similar tone.
 
M76 said:
I know that, but I assumed their marketing is representative of the product. Even if I could create a character that looks any way I want, I'd still not enjoy the game if the characters talk like in the trailer, and the game has a similar tone.
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Fair. I didn't dig into the voicing, SR3 had 3 voice options each for male and female.

Edit: fixed a stupid word swap.
 
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M76 said:
It seemed woke because of the typical unfeminine girlboss protagonist with the mental illness haircut, the shirtless dude, who wants to pay off his student debt as a story arc.
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You can make your character into almost anything, including very not so human looking. Practically every AAA game that gives a gender choice defaults to female these days. Ubisoft's Assassin's Creed Odyssey and Valhalla are good examples, despite how absolutely stupid that is given the time frames and settings. Far Cry 6 is another example. If you want to compare which games are more "woke", AC Odyssey is much more so than SR given its historical context and how it takes itself seriously.

The side characters were not good, but not far off from typical AAA games. Of the list of things wrong with the game I would probably place "shirtless NPC" on or near the bottom.
 
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