Upcoming SFF build... what would fit better?

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antaholics

Weaksauce
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Jan 9, 2009
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Hello,

I am new here... but I've read a few threads on this forum before :)

I'm thinking about building a SFF pc for light to medium gaming and to play around with hardware and tweaking a bit. I will be moving it around every 4 months or so, so I wanted something small and portable.

I've done some research in the past, and a few weeks more of research recently for this build. However, I'm still struggling with some component selections, mainly with how everything will fit/look.

Without further ado, here's my build (with parts in question listed at the end):

CPU: E5200 -- preparing to OC as far as possible with reasonable voltage... 3.8~4.0ghz (I want it to last at least two years, then I'll probably want to upgrade to a quad core anyway).
GPU: Geforce 9800gtx+ --whatever brand happens to be on sale, that would fit my case selection (see below)
PSU: OCZ ModXStream 600W -- unless the qpack2 PSU's are good enough, which people say it isn't.
HSF: Scythe Shuiken 3 -- not sure how well it would work in some cases if the PSU is right above it... or if my rig goes way below budget (it's sitting on the line right now), I could get a CNPS8700 for the looks
Internal Card Reader -- 3.5" or 5.25", depending on what case I get.
HDD: Seagate Barracuda 1TB -- bought 3 during boxing day, and one failed already (nothing was on it)... so I'm quite scared about using the other one in my build... might have to get a smaller drive to use for temporary primary drive (and wait for the seagate to fail), which would cost me more $$$....
RAM: 4GB (2x2gb sticks) of DDR 1066 or DDR 800, depending on what's on sale and what happens to be reasonable at the time of purchase... recommendations welcome

Case: Apevia X-Pack2 or Silverstone SG01F or SG02F (see below)
Mobo: Asus P5E-VM or DFI LP P45 T2RS (or P5Q-EM if they fix the video card issue by the end of this month) (see below)

Case:

Apevia QPack 2: (CAD $121)
- 14.7" x 11.2" x9" (DxWxH)
- 11lbs

Pros:
- looks very good (front panel and windows)
- 11lbs with PSU = VERY light!
- PSU not competing with HSF for air = better cooling for CPU
- 3.5" drive bay for card reader
- HD cage is nicely positioned

Cons:
- costs CAD$121 because of the power supply that I probably won't be using (although I'd be tempted to)
- because its light, the material is very thin and slightly cheap feeling
- won't fit 9800gtx+ if the power connectors are on the side of the card (unless I can use the second slot in the DFI board... would that work?), or if I get a shorter one (Palit 9800gtx+ comes to mind)

SG01F: (CAD $107)
- 263mm x 212mm x 393mm (10.4" x 8.3" x 15.5") (WxHxD)
- 4.9kg = 10.8lbs

Pros:
- decent looking
- excellent quality
- can fit up to 12" gfx cards, a lot more future-proof
- longer but shorter/narrower than QPack2

Cons:
- HSF competing for air with PSU
- no windows!!! (probably will mod my own windows in... which will cost another $40 or so to get acrylic and U-band...)
- SECC body = heavy
- no 3.5" drive bay

SG02F (CAD $88)
- 270mm x 212mm x 393mm (10.6" x 8.3" x 15.5") (WxHxD)
- 4.1kg = 9lbs

Pros:
- cheapest
- fits 12" GPU's
- good quality
- smaller than Qpack2

Cons:
- heavy
- will have to mod windows into the side ($40+ spendings)
- HSF and PSU competing for air = bad cooling
- plastic front, looks questionable compared to the other two
- flap open for USB and front panel peripherals -- debateable, but if I have something plugged in there all the time, it could look in the way... unless I get a 5.25" card reader with front audio too
- no 3.5" drive bay


Motherboard:

P5E-VM: (~$145 CAD)

Pros:
- Asus Quality
- 2nd slot PCI-E, good for the Sugo cases
- decent overclocker
- has firewire (i won't be using it yet, so i don't know how useful that might be)
- black PCB = sexy!

Cons:
- DDR2-800 only (if i OC enough, will I be able to just use 1066?)
- 2~4 of the SATA ports will be blocked, unless I can get some right and left angle connectors

DFI LP Jr P45: (~$160)

Pros:
- insane overclocking
- dual slot PCI-E = able to fit in second slot... might be able to fit 9800gtx+ in apevia case no problems!
- has its own unique colorful look, which I happen to like :)
- 3x front USB
- DDR2-1066 support
- all 6 SATA ports available (i've seen pictures of 4 of them being blocked in SG01-Evolution... does this happen in SG01F w/ the hard drive cage moved?)

Cons:
- will sacrifice 1 PCI slot for a PCI-E that I won't use, AND i won't be able to use PCI if I use second slot GPU
- costs more

I think this is getting too long.. so I will leave it at this for now. Please give me a few suggestions/experiences =)

(please don't tell me the apevia PSU is crap, I already know)
 
fyi, the SG02 comes rails to convert either of the 5.25 bays to 3.5 and the center of the lower blank can be removed to accommodate.

SG02W-F_1.jpg
 
By P5E-VM surely you mean P5E-VM HDMI (there are a couple of other P5E-VM). In that case, insane overclocking applies too.
CPU-wise, be prepared to have very high voltage to get to your target of 3.8-4.0GHz. Some E5200s reach it without a problem, some struggle past 3.6. Luck of the draw I guess. And if you do reach those frequencies with a high voltage, it will significantly impact the amount of cooling required, which I guess could become a problem in those cases (don't have enough experience with the cases, but I have a E5200 and it has been problematic to get a stable OC in the 3.6-3.75 region).
Also with regards to RAM: DDR2-1066 is always an OC'd spec. It's never the standard JEDEC data coded in the DIMMs (the one the boards pick up - it's usually something like 5-5-5-18 800MHz at 1.8V). So getting the 1066 is done manually (either by raising the FSB, or changing the FSB/RAM ratio, or both).
 
Yes, I meant P5E-VM HDMI. I heard that the DFI Lanparty Jr. would overclock a lot more (400-500 FSB)... but if DDR1066 is OC'ed anyway, it might not make too big a difference... any other reasons why I should choose one over the other?

Also, the reason I pointed out the 3.5" drive bay in the Qpack2 is because i could use that for a card reader, and have the option of later on adding another BD drive or w/e... OR it can be used to hold another HDD. However, that is minor, and the biggest issues are "how will things fit" and "how will things look".

I went to a computer shop today, but they only had sg02 in a box, I really wanted to see it in person, but if anyone can post a photo (not the CG'ed ones manufacturers put up), that would really help too!
 
The P5E... is as good an overclocker as the DFI, I believe. Besides, with the 12.5 multiplier of the E5200, you only need to reach 320 (thats a lot when you start from 200) or so to reach 4Ghz (if the CPU is stable, that is). Your concern should be: how good is the board with a FSB800 CPU. The fact that a Wolfdale FSB1333 reaches 550+MHz should be almost (!) irrelevant.
 
You're probably right, unless I plan to upgrade to a wolfdale quad later on, then it might make a difference.

Either way, I think the motherboard could really go either way (each one has its own very slight benefits over the other).

What I'd really like is a bit more advice/experience with the case selection... pictures of the sg02 and sg01 would REALLY help!

Also, how hard would it be to mod a side window into one of those cases, and would it be possible to mount another side fan?

Thanks!
 
I own both boards but haven't had the opportunity to play around with the DFI LP Jr yet but i have to stress to you that the P5E VM HDMI is capable of 500 FSB with little drama and many settings left on auto.

400 FSB is nothing to the P5E VM HDMI. It's really that simple. The limit for this board will be your CPU and RAM - not the board itself. It's extremely reliable - I haven't heard nor experienced any horror stories or disappointment with this board at all and i've witnessed insano overlocks on air on two of them peronsally with minimal hassle (mine and a friends 500 FSB with only 4 manual settings - the rest on auto. FSB, RAM Freq, CPU Voltage, DRAM voltage) .

Sure i've caused it to hang on POST or not even POST at all but i've never had to reset CMOS. 10 seconds off at the wall and bam she's back at a default speed.

About the only sore point for me is the placement of the SATA ports (though i personally only needed two anyway) and the inclusion of integrated graphics. It also uses Soundmax audio which i prefer over Realtek (in the DFI).

Good call on mentioning that the second slot position of the PCI E in the P5E VM HDMI is beneficial in SUGO cases. Excellent point.

I guess the DFI board is the more exotic, funky even, and there's something really cool about the lack on integrated graphics on a micro. Still the P5E VM is still one of the best boards you can buy for its price, mATX or otherwise.

Incidentally i payed far less for the P45 T2RS than i did the P5E VM HDMI ($180 AU vs $250 AU).

Oh and the DFI LP Jr has a black PCB too. ;)

Also for those wondering about an NT06 E and a DFI LP Jr P45 T2RS in a SUGO the answer is yes it lines up perfectly with a fan down PSU (in a vertical orientation - heatpipes at the top).

I'm waiting on a CPU so i can't speak to all the nuances of a P45 T2RS in an SUGO just yet but my advice would be that they are both killer boards and to buy whatever suits your graphics card setup best or which ever one is cheapest for you to source.

The rest of your prospective build is fine so no comments from me aside from SUGO all the way!

If you don't mind voiding warranty on your PSU, then turn its fan upside down so it no longer competes with CPU fan at all but assists it.

It's an option. I plan to experiment with an orb cooler with this PSU configuration if my NT06 E can't handle an OC'd Quad in my SG03.

I don't think you can go wrong either way.
 
Thanks for the input about P5E-VM!

As far as the motherboard stands....
DFI: all sata ports working, 1 PCI 1.0 blocked
Asus: 2~4 sata working, nothing blocked, will need modding for qpack2

I'm not a big fan of the NT06 fans (they look too simple and too expensive, and proprietary for the sugo cases)... but I saw many many many orb fans today at tigerdirect, although I don't know if they're any good (thermaltake ones, and a few others).

I also saw a Qpack2 windowless.... but the casing has a very rough feel (almost like sandpaper). Can anyone confirm this? If it's the case, I might stick with a sugo and mod it for windows... cuz the sandpaper feel doesn't cut it for me =/
 
the qpack does have a gritty finish... the sugo has a matte finish on the shell but the metal is much thicker than the qpack. I have owned both (as well as a LanboxLite) and I would say the SG02 is the pick of the litter. if seeing the guts of your case is that important, the sugo does have vents on both sides which will allow you to see any lights inside, especially if they are illuminating clear or silver parts.
 
As far as your mobo choices go I would suggest the DFI if you want to run dual video cards but if you only plan on a single video card then stick with the ASUS. The P5E-VM HDMI is a very good overclocker and performer. In my mind the single biggest thing the DFI brings to the table is its ability to run dual video cards. But thats just my thinking between the two mobos.
 
Right now I'm leaning towards SG02F with P5E-VM, or if by some miracle my budget allows, sg01f. I'm not sure what to do with the HSF though... I need to keep the CPU really cool for OCing... but it'll be competing with the PSU for air...

What solutions are there short of swapping the PSU fan around (and blowing hot air onto the CPU)? are there any low profile side blowing fans, or are short orb fans (e.g. Thermaltake Blue Orb, Zalman CNPS8700, etc) any good?
 
Ditch the ModXStream 600W PSU as well. It's a low quality PSU as well though not as dangerous for your system as the Apevia PSU. Good alternatives are the Corsair 520HX or 620HX, Silverstone ST60F, ST70F, or ST75F, or BFG MX-550 or MX-680
 
If you're talking about the ModStream (not Mod "X" Stream) PSUs, then that's understandable... but as far as I can find, there aren't very many complaints about the ModXStream PSUs, they are much more affordable than other brands, and in fact most people have said very good things about them...
 
antaholics said:
If you're talking about the ModStream (not Mod "X" Stream) PSUs, then that's understandable... but as far as I can find, there aren't very many complaints about the ModXStream PSUs, they are much more affordable than other brands, and in fact most people have said very good things about them...
Click to expand...

Unless these "things" were said by actual PSU reviews (like the ones done by JonnyGuru.com or HardOCP,com), then those reviews are not a good indication of the actual quality of the PSU. That ModXStream is made by Sirtec, makers of low quality PSUs. The 700W brother of the 600W ModXStream you listed failed horribly under testing:
http://hardocp.com/article.html?art=MTU2NiwsLGhlbnRodXNpYXN0
 
antaholics said:
http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDNews&op=Story&ndns_id=830
http://www.pcper.com/article.php?aid=644&type=expert&pid=1

Since my system will come nowhere close to loading the PSU (maybe ~350W as it is... but 600W is only $5 more than 500W version)... I think that's good enough for me. If I invest any more in the PSU than I am already, I will be going way over my budget anyways.
Click to expand...

The first link just links to a review done by Virtual-Hideout, not a credible PSU review. As for the PCPer link, nice job. So the ModXStream Pro series isn't totally a POS.
 
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