Tiny scratches on cpu heatsink copper plate. Will affect performance?

[Andrei_shaq]

Hello!

I recently moved to a new house and i had to take my pc with me so i decided to remove the CPU cooler ( a Cryorig R1 Ultimate) because i didn't want to damage the motherboard due to transport or anything. After i removed it and prepared to pack it, i saw some little scratches, most probably made by the cpu on the heatsink copper base:

http://imgur.com/m4O89Ki

Will those tiny scratches decrease cooling performance? Should i RMA it? I know i might sound a bit OCD about it, and maybe a bit stupid..but i just want to know if it's ok and it will do it's job as before http://m.**********************.com/sfp/images/design/usr/smilies/biggrin.gif

 

[Nebulous]

Nahh, it ain't gonna hurt cooling performance. Those marks are when you first clamp down the heatsink. Pretty normal wear. Nothing to worry about. Add a pea-sized blop of TIM in the center of the cpu and remount the sink back on it.

 

[DrLobotomy]

That is what CPU goo is for!!

 

[doyll]

Hello!

I recently moved to a new house and i had to take my pc with me so i decided to remove the CPU cooler ( a Cryorig R1 Ultimate) because i didn't want to damage the motherboard due to transport or anything. After i removed it and prepared to pack it, i saw some little scratches, most probably made by the cpu on the heatsink copper base:

http://imgur.com/m4O89Ki

Will those tiny scratches decrease cooling performance? Should i RMA it? I know i might sound a bit OCD about it, and maybe a bit stupid..but i just want to know if it's ok and it will do it's job as before http://m.**********************.com/sfp/images/design/usr/smilies/biggrin.gif

What Nebulous said. Those scratches are not going to make any difference, definitely not enough to measure.

Any good TIM applied properly will do the job. I normally use a dob the size of a cooked grain of rice in middle of CPU and know exactly where to set cooler on CPU so it does not move when tightening it's mounting screws. I usually do a 'practice' in dry install setting cooler in place and starting the mounting screws, then take it back off and I apply the TIM to center of CPU. It takes less than a minute and helps me know exactly where to set the cooler when the TIM is on CPU.

 

[Andrei_shaq]

What Nebulous said. Those scratches are not going to make any difference, definitely not enough to measure.

Any good TIM applied properly will do the job. I normally use a dob the size of a cooked grain of rice in middle of CPU and know exactly where to set cooler on CPU so it does not move when tightening it's mounting screws. I usually do a 'practice' in dry install setting cooler in place and starting the mounting screws, then take it back off and I apply the TIM to center of CPU. It takes less than a minute and helps me know exactly where to set the cooler when the TIM is on CPU.

Thanks a lot for your information, and thanks others too. I was a bit concerned because I used a h100i gtx before (until the pump died) and when I removedit, it was pretty clean, so I tough I made something wrong or applyed to much pressure on the heatsink when mounting it even if I was very careful and it's pretty hard to overtighten with Cryorig because the screws will stop at a certain point and it's very noticeable, letting you know when you must stop tighten them. I also emailed Cryorig and they reply ed me:

"The scratch on the copper base is a normal mark after metal interface contact and it will not affect the cooling performance. Thank you.
Have a great day."

I remounted it using the pea method and noctua nt-h1 compound and my idle Temps on 4.2ghz oc on 5930k are 27-29 and load 48-56 ( 1h aida64 ) at an ambiental temp of 24°C which is very impressive and I doubt they can go lower than temp his xD. I might also have won the sylicon lottery with my chip.

 

[Nebulous]

Very nice. You did great, pat yourself on the back!

 

[Elf_Boy]

You could spend a whole lot of time finding the right shop to properly mill and polish the heat-sink... pay lots and lots of money, if your a perfectionist and it has to be perfect well that is how.

Like all the above a little TIM and all will be good.

 

[doyll]

Thanks a lot for your information, and thanks others too. I was a bit concerned because I used a h100i gtx before (until the pump died) and when I removedit, it was pretty clean, so I tough I made something wrong or applyed to much pressure on the heatsink when mounting it even if I was very careful and it's pretty hard to overtighten with Cryorig because the screws will stop at a certain point and it's very noticeable, letting you know when you must stop tighten them. I also emailed Cryorig and they reply ed me:

"The scratch on the copper base is a normal mark after metal interface contact and it will not affect the cooling performance. Thank you.
Have a great day."

I remounted it using the pea method and noctua nt-h1 compound and my idle Temps on 4.2ghz oc on 5930k are 27-29 and load 48-56 ( 1h aida64 ) at an ambiental temp of 24°C which is very impressive and I doubt they can go lower than temp his xD. I might also have won the sylicon lottery with my chip.

Cryorig mount is one of the best and easiest to use of any on the market. The key to good heat transfer is to use as little TIM as possible and still get a round print that comes close to edges of IHS. TIM is supposed to fill voids between IHS and cooler base, not form a layer between them. As comparison, copper has a heat transfer ability of 400 W/m K, TIM is 3 - 10 W/m K and air is 0.024 W/m K

Just out of curiosity, what are your thoughts about H100 you had versus R1 you now have? Cooling ability, noise level, how long it lasted, etc.

 

[Andrei_shaq]

Just out of curiosity, what are your thoughts about H100 you had versus R1 you now have? Cooling ability, noise level, how long it lasted, etc.

First of all I want to thank you for your reply.

Sure, I will be glad to share my toughts with you comparing the Cryorig R1 ultimate with H100i gtx. I will try to put them un in categories down below:


Mounting:

-R1: easy, intuitive, took me about 5 minutes.
-H100i gtx: easy (maybe a bit easier than R1 because of the small pump block), intuitive as well, took me about 5 minutes.



Noise level:

-R1: maxed out (fans 100% speed) is equal or even more quiet than H100i on quiet mode, no vibration sound, with my case closed (corsair 780t I can't hear the fans.

-H100i gtx: quiet mode -> ok-ish; balance mode -> noticeable, a bit disturbing without headset on, nosy pump; performance mode -> loud, can hear them with my hyperX cloud on my ears, noisy pump; maxed out -> unbearable, my case used to vibrate also.


Cooling performance 5930k, 4.2ghz, 1.2v 1h aida64(most important aspect for me):

-R1: 27-29°C idle, 48-56°C under stress test load.
Temps go up faster than H100 but stop at a certain point and don't go beyond that point. Also dropping as fast as they climb up.
I feel a lot safer (no leaking, no dead pump, no fan rattle)
Depends a lot of ambient temp ( I can see it in idle Temps very easy when the temp in the room is higher for example)
In case of failure, less parts to change (fans/cables)

-H100i gtx: 27-30°C idle, 59-64 °C under stress test load
Temps going up and down slower but after 1hour of Aida they were far above the R1.
Always feared of leaking or pump malfunction.(which eventually happened after 1.5 years).
Didn't felt it so dependent of ambiental temp, Temps dosen't change that much from summer to winter.
In case of failure there is not much to do, just to change the whole AIO.

Never been a fan of air cooling in a modern pc build but after experiencing with both coolers I can't recommend any CLC/AIO under h110i/115i or kraken x61/x62 and if I would face the oportunity to choose between an R1 or noctua nh-d15 and those AIOs mentioned above, I wold go with air cooling any day any time.

So as a final conclusion, IMO air cooling is more reliable, more safe, offers the same performance as a high end CLC/AIO (even better performance in my case) and for the first time in 2 years I really apreciate a silent pc and I embrace it. It's awesome not to have a reactor noise near you when you want to relax and play some games or do some work at your pc.

That would be my comparison and rewiew about coolers ^^. Hope it helps.

 

[doyll]

Andrei_shaq
Thanks. Your 'review' is the same as everyone else who has actually compared CLC to upper level air coolers. The only point you didn't hit was cost. I assume the R1 cost same or less even with a few years of inflation.

When CLCs first came out and everyone jumped on the 'water cooling' hype advertising band wagon and gobbled them up I was ranting about on and on about how they were not cooling any better than top air, made way more noise (newer are quieter) did not last as long as air, were higher cost, when failed (almost always pump) system was DOA until new cooler was installed (air coolers still work with 1 fan, even no fan at low load & any fan keeps system operational) ** rant/fume/spit/stomp feet ** Lot of users argued with me saying I was wrong, but now more and more people are realizing the advantages of air coolers.

All that said, I am using a be quiet! Silent Loop 280mm and really like it. It cools as well and is as quiet as air. I got it wholesale so was not super expensive. Not sure I would pay more for one if it cost me more than top air.

FYI, Many of us have changed the R1 fans to ones that are lower sound level / nicer sounding. R1 Ultimate with 2x XF140 are not too bad, but the Univerals' thin XT140 is not a nice sound to many ears.

 

[Andrei_shaq]

Andrei_shaq
Thanks. Your 'review' is the same as everyone else who has actually compared CLC to upper level air coolers. The only point you didn't hit was cost. I assume the R1 cost same or less even with a few years of inflation.

When CLCs first came out and everyone jumped on the 'water cooling' hype advertising band wagon and gobbled them up I was ranting about on and on about how they were not cooling any better than top air, made way more noise (newer are quieter) did not last as long as air, were higher cost, when failed (almost always pump) system was DOA until new cooler was installed (air coolers still work with 1 fan, even no fan at low load & any fan keeps system operational) ** rant/fume/spit/stomp feet ** Lot of users argued with me saying I was wrong, but now more and more people are realizing the advantages of air coolers.

All that said, I am using a be quiet! Silent Loop 280mm and really like it. It cools as well and is as quiet as air. I got it wholesale so was not super expensive. Not sure I would pay more for one if it cost me more than top air.

FYI, Many of us have changed the R1 fans to ones that are lower sound level / nicer sounding. R1 Ultimate with 2x XF140 are not too bad, but the Univerals' thin XT140 is not a nice sound to many ears.

Ops, I forgot the price. Yeah, in my country (Romania) price difference between H100i and R1 is about 40-50$.

I use the R1 ultimate with stock fans, I found them really good, anyways better than the ones used on h100i. And I chose them over noctua because of the aesthetics, after all they are symilar in terms of performance ( I saw benchmarks with croriginal doing better than noctua and vice versa, both being in the same boat at the end of the day)

Just imagine how a noctua would look in my rig: https://imgur.com/gallery/Px2zM

I ordered the white plastic covers to make it match even more with my black and white theme xD

Would you consider noctua over cryorig? Just curious cuz it took me 2 weeks to decide which one to buy ))

 

[doyll]

Ops, I forgot the price. Yeah, in my country (Romania) price difference between H100i and R1 is about 40-50$.

I use the R1 ultimate with stock fans, I found them really good, anyways better than the ones used on h100i. And I chose them over noctua because of the aesthetics, after all they are symilar in terms of performance ( I saw benchmarks with croriginal doing better than noctua and vice versa, both being in the same boat at the end of the day)

Just imagine how a noctua would look in my rig: https://imgur.com/gallery/Px2zM

I ordered the white plastic covers to make it match even more with my black and white theme xD

Would you consider noctua over cryorig? Just curious cuz it took me 2 weeks to decide which one to buy ))

That looks really nice!

Most testing is done in cases using room air temp. The air inside of case / going into cooler is warmer than room .. 3-20c warmer. Unless a cooler test is based the temperature of air going into the cooler they are not comparing coolers, but instead comparing how differnet coolers perform in their test system .. and unless your system is identical to theirs you will not get similar performance comparisons between coolers. What they are doing is like cooking a big dinner for 10 people in the kitchen and when we wonder what the temperature in the kitchen is we go look at thermometer in another room .. and wondering why it seem so hot in the kitchen when thermometer says it's only 21c.

I agree, D15 / D15S performs the same as R1. 10-15 of the top coolers have very close performance. Often the 1-3c difference can be traced to one having higher speed fan/s that move a little more air and give them a little extra cooling. I tested NH-D14, TRUE Spirit 140 Power, original Silver Arrow and Silver Arrow IB-E with TY-143 2500rpm 130cfm fans. All of the coolers gave 7-9c lower temps at 2500rpm than at 1200rpm. Obviously at 2500rpm they were as loud as H100i is. Here is H100i, Silver Arrow SB-E and Silver Arrow SB-E Extreme (TY-143 fans)

Here is R1 Universal with TY-147A fans. Fans clip same as stock fans

The R1 Ulitmate and R1 Universal both use the same fin packs and base. The only difference is the heatpipes are formed different so the front of cooler is set back 4.5mm closer to CPU. I have compared performance between them and find the perform the same. I sold my R1 Ultimate and use R1 Universal with TY-147A fans.

 

[Andrei_shaq]

I sold my R1 Ultimate and use R1 Universal

Why you sold the ultimate? because of the heatpipes interaction with ram?

I use to measure my temp in the room and in my case too and I noticed that after 2 hours of gaming for example, temp in my case is about 29°C and room temp 25°C so what you said is indeed very corect. ^^

 

[doyll]

Why you sold the ultimate? because of the heatpipes interaction with ram?

I use to measure my temp in the room and in my case too and I noticed that after 2 hours of gaming for example, temp in my case is about 29°C and room temp 25°C so what you said is indeed very corect. ^^

I had both R1 Ultimate and R1 Universal and only needed one.