Thinkpad or Powerbook?

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Likvid

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I can't decide anymore which laptop to get but i have narrowed it down to the Thinkpad T41p, Thinkpad R50p or the Powerbook 17"

Currently i got a Thinkpad T20 and i like it, but im tired of Windows so i am running mostly Linux on it.

Please give me your input of what to get, the price is not important in this case as i can afford either of these three.
 
Well since you like linux .. all OSX is .. is gui ontop of BSD and i think the 17" powerbooks are great looking i would own one but on the other hand you got the t41p the best notebook made by man .. which ever you pick sell me your old one :)
 
To be perfectly honest some of the PC machines are more powerful and better built.

The mac laptops are pretty, however my experience with their durability has been less than rosy and the G4s just can't keep up. After comparing some image processing code on a new 17" powerbook to a 1.13ghz p3 laptop (about 2 and a half years old, dell) the processing time for a number of intensive operations were the same.

The IBMs are built like tanks and I think a better choice, I don't know how much the ones you priced are but you can get the same or better power in some PC laptops and then just slap Linux on it if you want access to Unix.
 
good choices you have, i go by if i have money i'd get a powerbook, if not, i'd buy a old ibm T series such as a t21 that i bought (still waiting thouhg =( ).

My reasons for pb is becuase of its looks, OS, and i just love the way you can put it to sleep, then wake it up instantly! :eek:
 
IBM

they're made for Linux, so why not?

plus you get a better warranty, better hardware, etc.

I'd give up those 3" for a better system any day.
 
Seems like almost all of you are recommending the IBM.

I can agree that it's built like a tank, can take nearly everything.

The Powerbook got a lovely design, but that's about it, can it hold the quality?

The Powerbook seems to be a pain when you want to changde HD and stuff as you need to open it up everywhere.......

Maybe i shall wait til the Dothan CPU comes out the beginning of February?

The Thinkpad T41p lacks DVD-R, Firewire which the Powerbook already got, so the upcoming T42p or what it will be called might have at least DVD-R in it....

I can say that i get the T41p and the Powerbook 17" at the same price.
 
Coming from a Powerbook G4 15" that I loved dearly...I'm just bought a decked out T40p.

They're both awesome, but I find the Powerbook to be less durable in the long run.
 
The 17" Powerbook, and all 17" Laptops are so dumb, they have a lower resolution than most 15 panels. Why would you lug all that bulk around for no real added benefit? (seems strange Dell and host of other manuafacturers can get 1920x1200 screens in their laptops, but not Apple, whose machines are targeted at designers who need more real estate than most…) If you're blind, go with the Powerbook, otherwise I would say get the IBM, best laptops ever made, and priced accordingly.
 
Originally posted by olaf2821
The 17" Powerbook, and all 17" Laptops are so dumb, they have a lower resolution than most 15 panels. Why would you lug all that bulk around for no real added benefit? (seems strange Dell and host of other manuafacturers can get 1920x1200 screens in their laptops, but not Apple, whose machines are targeted at designers who need more real estate than most…) If you're blind, go with the Powerbook, otherwise I would say get the IBM, best laptops ever made, and priced accordingly.
Click to expand...

I've always felt the same way about Apple's laptops. Simply a stupid thing to have only models with such low resolution, and they're not particularly stunning displays either.

The fact that their desktop displays are all LCDs now is equally mindboggling given what many Apples are used for.
 
IBM T series! At this point if you can wait get the Dothan chip. I guess will be the T50. It'll probably have a DVDR. I'd bet.

I have a T41 and really like it. Standard battery gets 4 hours and with a stick of 512MB from Crucial this thing runs slick. (Its the DJU2379)
 
Another vote for the Thinkpad. The Powerbooks have some nice eye candy, but the have a lot of quality issues. In fact, some frustrated Powerbook owners tried to protest in front of the MacWorld expo last week because of these problems.
 
Yes the Powerbook 15" had or still have screenproblems with white spots.

So which one of the Thinkpads should i go for then?

R50p or T41p?
 
i just bought a thinkpad A series on ebay, i cant wait till it arrives, ive been anxiously awaiting shipment
 
Okay, some of what people are saying (especially beachbum) are based more on things people have heard than absolute truths.

First: the PowerBook G4 will definitely be faster for some apps than others. It depends on optimization. Some companies make Mac ports almost as afterthoughts, while others try to get it right.

Next: remember that the 17" PowerBook has a Mobility Radeon 9600 in it, while the best you can manage with the IBM laptops is a FireGL 9000, and that's on the top-end system! The PowerBook will actually be the better gaming machine whenever an app is dependent on 3D acceleration (no lie - I've seen benchmarks with a T40 versus the current 17" PowerBook). There may not be as many games to play, but unless you're getting a clunky desktop replacement laptop (Alienware/Sager/some VoodooPC models) you're not about to use the thing primarily as a gaming rig. It may however mean something to have a good chipset for the sake of the occasional round of Warcraft 3.

Durability and reliability with PowerBooks are better than it's been made out to be. Dropping a laptop from a significant height will cause cosmetic damage on most laptops, so that's not unique. But as far as general usage? I have a 15" titanium PowerBook (from late 2002, before the aluminum models) and it's yet to exhibit any sort of weird behaviour - knock on wood! I'll admit that I'm angry at Apple for not having done QA checks to prevent the 15" aluminum PowerBooks from showing up with white spots onscreen, but that's been cleared up and is apparently not unique to Apple (Dell had to deal with that, for example). The 12" and 17" PowerBooks have generally been immune to the issues.

As for display resolution, there are a lot of misconceptions. First, the resolution on the 17" isn't something that Apple can change even if it wants to. Notice how, mysteriously, every other 17" widescreen laptop on the planet has a 1440x900 resolution? That's because 17" widescreen LCDs are only available in that one resolution anywhere on the planet. The 15" displays are a different matter... but remember that Apple is using a slightly taller 15.2" display where Dell is using a longer 15.4" display. Apple would have to resize the case to make the 15.4" fit, not to mention that it would be awkward to have a sharper resolution on your 15" display than your 17". As for the useability: the 15" PowerBook's resolution is fine! It could stand to be a bit sharper (1344x850, for example) but it's not as though the computer is unuseable. In fact, I can't imagine why someone would want 1680x1050 or higher on a 15" display... either the text is too small, or enlarging the text knocks the GUI elements out of joint.

Having just gone on a pro-Mac tirade, I will say that the T41 may be best if battery life and utter compatibility with absolutely everything are the most valuable. Just remember that the 17" PowerBook is a good portable large-screen laptop, and has lots of features that are relatively unique and useful (built-in 802.11g with good reception, built-in Bluetooth, Firewire 400 and 800, backlit keyboard with auto-dimming display, and so on).
 
Originally posted by Aurelius

As for display resolution, there are a lot of misconceptions. First, the resolution on the 17" isn't something that Apple can change even if it wants to. Notice how, mysteriously, every other 17" widescreen laptop on the planet has a 1440x900 resolution? That's because 17" widescreen LCDs are only available in that one resolution anywhere on the planet. The 15" displays are a different matter... but remember that Apple is using a slightly taller 15.2" display where Dell is using a longer 15.4" display. Apple would have to resize the case to make the 15.4" fit, not to mention that it would be awkward to have a sharper resolution on your 15" display than your 17". As for the useability: the 15" PowerBook's resolution is fine! It could stand to be a bit sharper (1344x850, for example) but it's not as though the computer is unuseable. In fact, I can't imagine why someone would want 1680x1050 or higher on a 15" display... either the text is too small, or enlarging the text knocks the GUI elements out of joint.
Click to expand...

As I said, the Apple 17" and all the WIndows based ones as well. As for the usibility of a high-res display, I use an UXGA 15" on my Dell, and and 1920x1200 on an i8500 and it is wonderful, nothing is too small. I honestly don't know how you can get much work done on a disply with anything lower than 1600x1200, anything lower and I can't fit two pages side by side, but everyone's needs are different. But the point is, Apple gives you no choice, if you have a problem using a higher resolution, that's fine, that's why Dell offers 3 displays from low to high, I just wich Apple would do the same in the future.
 
Originally posted by Aurelius
Okay, some of what people are saying (especially beachbum) are based more on things people have heard than absolute truths.

First: the PowerBook G4 will definitely be faster for some apps than others. It depends on optimization. Some companies make Mac ports almost as afterthoughts, while others try to get it right.

Next: remember that the 17" PowerBook has a Mobility Radeon 9600 in it, while the best you can manage with the IBM laptops is a FireGL 9000, and that's on the top-end system! The PowerBook will actually be the better gaming machine
Click to expand...

Not true, the highend IBM T41p got a Fire GL T2 chip with 128MB which is the same graphics CPU as the ATI 9600.

Yes, the T41p lacks Firewire, but you can get it by getting a Minidock if you really need it.

T41p lacks a DVD-R that i wish it had, maybe the T42 or whatever it will be called will have it.

But the R50p got both a better screen and Firewire and DVD-R but it's larger and bulkier than the T41p.

Actually all games are faster on a x86 machine, not even a G5 dual 2GHz can't compete with a dual Opteron 2GHz in games.

However, newer games gets better and faster for each time for Apple, but they are not still there and there is a pretty huge gap between the platforms.
 
Likvid:

Could you try going to the IBM website and custom-building a T-series? They don't seem to let you go beyond the FireGL 9000 there.

And I wouldn't say that all games are faster on x86 hardware. If you have better video hardware and the CPU isn't absolutely atrocious, then the Mac will pull ahead. In many cases (at least with the G5) the Mac isn't exactly far behind.

Anyways, this isn't very tangential to the discussion. If you can buy a T41p with a FireGL T2, that's great but it'll actually be substantially more expensive than the PowerBook (one of the three stock T40, not T41, configs on IBM's site is $3079 with a FireGL 9000). The question is: will the emphasis be on the laptop as a portable workstation, or as a game system?
 
Yes look here T41p


I can get it for $3199:)

No i won't use it for games at all actually so that doesn't matter to me, but i want much power anyhow for other stuff like coding and stuff.
 
IBM, nuff said.
the G4 is slow by today's standards.. back then when they were introduced..yeah.. they were untouchable in the laptop market..but now.. i don't think so.

if you had the G5 in a laptop, then that would be a challenger to the M$ platform

oh, IMO by the way.
 
I was at my local Appe Store today just to look at the Powerbook 17" before i make up my mind.

However i regret i visited the store, or wish i did you might say:D

After trying the Powerbook in the store i must say i am impressed of the kind of thing Apple brought to the market.

I went in to the store and thought this would be a slow ass laptop with just the design as the sellingpoint, boy i was wrong.

The laptop felt faster than my AMD XP2000+ that my father got and much more responsive, i also got a nice warm feeling when i tried OSX, it was elegant and smooth to work with, really liked it.

Then i started to compared the features in my mind compared to the Thinkpad T41p.

With Apple i get Firewire and DVD-R and 17" real estate Widescreen, great replacement for a desktop i might say.

Then i compared the price and actually you pay ALOT for the Thinkpad and you get "nothing" compared to the Powerbook.

Heck, where is the DVD-R, and where is the Firewire and 17"?

Well i could always buy the Thinkpad R50p, but can you call the R50p a laptop? it's thick like a stone.

So i am not still 100% convinced as the Thinkpad got one huge advantage and that is you can change hardware and upgrade easily, the Powerbook is a bit naughty and you need to ship it in to Apple if you want to change keyboard for an example or something similar.

But i will get the 7200rpm HD in the Powerbook as you need to fix that yourself.

OSX is Unix, good enough reason to change really and you can't get a nicer GUI today.

If anyone have anything more to add i would appreciate it as i haven't decided yet.
 
Depends what you're doing with the system. I wouldn't call the powerbooks fast, just marginal.

Again watch out for the durability, and you can expect the GUI to lock up just the same as Win 2k or XP do, so don't expect any magic bullet. A lot of people do and get upset when they find out they were wrong.
 
Ok, i took the plunge and ordered the Thinkpad T41p at $3,199

I will receive it in a couple of weeks and will post some nice pictures for you here.:D

First thing i will do is to install Gentoo on this beauty.
 
You guys keep saying IBM laptops are built like tanks but my buddy's IBM P3 laptop (don't know the model) is on it's 3rd hard drive. IBM claimed it was "excessive shock". Lucky for him he keeps buying extended warranties :p

And I have a bunch of friends at my universty who have the 12" powerbook and it is sick like dog :p such a nice laptop and seeing as how our comp-sci departments makes us all use lunix it's not that bad either :D

Anyways just wanted to throw some more info out there

Peace
 
Originally posted by Perrupa
You guys keep saying IBM laptops are built like tanks but my buddy's IBM P3 laptop (don't know the model) is on it's 3rd hard drive. IBM claimed it was "excessive shock". Lucky for him he keeps buying extended warranties :p

And I have a bunch of friends at my universty who have the 12" powerbook and it is sick like dog :p such a nice laptop and seeing as how our comp-sci departments makes us all use lunix it's not that bad either :D

Anyways just wanted to throw some more info out there

Peace
Click to expand...

What hard drive is in the laptop? A lot of laptops used IBM mobile drives, which IMO were unreliable. They make a killer computer but their drives weren't that great. Hitachi has taken that division over now and improved it. Last I remember I think apple had used the IBM drives.

I see a bunch more people with the 12" powerbooks now than I used to. I'd still say the iBook is a better buy, or a lightweight sony or IBM, but the Apples have "sex" appeal and that seems to be swaying even some of our comp sci students.
 
This is a very non-techie reply, but it goes like this:

PC and mac are like two pretty girls and YOU gotta decide which girl you wanna hang with. One girl can cook, the other is awesome in bed...oh...that doesn´t seem to be a difficult pick, but you get my idea ? !

First decide what platform you wanna roll with, then figure out what model to pick.
I love my PB G4 867mhz for music and other pro apps like Photoshop etc, but some times I really wanna kick my mac´s a** ´cos it can´t do pc stuff, but anyway...

My philosophy is that if you can afford it, why not get the best of both worlds?
 
The powerbooks do hold a slight advantage over the iBooks for things like Photoshop and some other media apps. If you absolutely had to have an Apple laptop and were doing a lot of photoshop, video or audio it might be worth considering the powerbook. From my experience with them, I'd personally prefer some sort of PC laptop for that purpose these days because I've found them to be faster but that's just me. :)
 
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