Without having to navigate the GUI to the other screen under MS Office.View attachment 344329
there are the key combos next to almost every menu option
View attachment 344330
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Without having to navigate the GUI to the other screen under MS Office.View attachment 344329
there are the key combos next to almost every menu option
View attachment 344330
ok, thats not what you said. if they do use the menu they are presented with the key combos next to the menu choices. so if 90% dont know its there, they arent paying attention OR the other menu is good enough for them.Without having to navigate the GUI to the other screen under MS Office.
If I only used one program at a time, I would agree with you. But then that's how we worked in dos.Used it since DOS and disagree with all your points except the control panel / settings. That's a hot mess. But, the rest of the UI? I get along with it fine especially since most of my computer use at home these days is either sitting on a couch with a gaming PC hooked up to a TV ... or using a Surface Pro. At work I hardly ever look at the start menu as the windows are open for weeks at a time.
If the workflow requires a lot of typing, it's best to use keyboard shortcuts. If the workflow requires mouse use, it's best designed of it doesn't require a lot of typing. Switching back and forth slows down work.If I only used one program at a time, I would agree with you. But then that's how we worked in dos.
But when doing real work, I have 6 to 12 programs running at the same time, spread across multiple displays.
Having to take my hand off the mouse to type in a search for a program is stupid - for me. Having to fumble on a window border when trying to resize (because it is invisible ) is stupid- for me.
Shutting down at the end of the work day is a best practice for my particular situation. That aint going to change no matter the os.
I wouldn't know, because I never was never running a Windows 10 PC on 4GB and only ran 7 with 4GB at work and it was painful, just like XP. Fact is that at home I was running 8GB with Vista in 2007. My then 70 something mother was running 8 GB around that time too. It's 2021, not 2007. Once you left XP, there wasn't a 4GB limit.Windows 7 was a metric tonne faster on 4GB of ram and a mechanical HDD than Windows 10, you can't argue that it wasn't. I run Linux on a Pi400 with 4GB of ram as do many other people, it runs great! In fact it's a totally recommended device for most of your daily tasks.
The average person could get by on something like a Pi400 just fine.
Control p has been a thing for a long time (probably pre 2007) and is the same in most programs, including, but not limited to, Foxit, Firefox, Waterfox, Edge, Chrome, photoshop, H&R Block tax software, Keepass, and likely every other program that allows printing.Perhaps Microsoft should put that in the title bar? As about 90% of all Windows users (fairly average Joe's) have no idea that exists! All they see is the GUI and the GUI is poor from a desktop screen real estate perspective.
But you're an enthusiast, and that's something most on these forums fail to consider. Either that or they try to compare their experiences with bulk numbers of Windows systems with corporate networks where the Windows core network is locked down and hidden neatly behind Linux servers and the users dont run administrator accounts relying on nothing more than UAC to keep the nasties out.I wouldn't know, because I never was never running a Windows 10 PC on 4GB and only ran 7 with 4GB at work and it was painful, just like XP. Fact is that at home I was running 8GB with Vista in 2007. My then 70 something mother was running 8 GB around that time too. It's 2021, not 2007. Once you left XP, there wasn't a 4GB limit.
SSDs are extremely low cost now, and are no longer hyper expensive like they were a decade ago - even a Samsung 980 500GB m.2 NVMe SSD can be had for less than $70USD on Amazon.Also consider that I'm not taking past tense, these 4GB/mechanical HDD systems are still being sold and are quite popular. Until the user gets one home, installs third party AV as the salesperson upsold them on it, and the machine virtually struggles to process the OS alone.
You shouldn't 'need' an SSD when other operating systems (*cough, not MacOS) run fine off spinners. That's the inherent issue here, the SSD is a BandAid on a sore knee.SSDs are extremely low cost now, and are no longer hyper expensive like they were a decade ago - even a Samsung 980 500GB m.2 NVMe SSD can be had for less than $70USD on Amazon.
It might actually be cheaper to purchase said computer with a HDD, then replace it with a SSD after the fact.
I do know what you are saying, though, and agree, especially after the AV software has been installed.
Modern AV solutions absolutely destroy whatever performance a HDD would have had, even for basic functionality.
Ok, eMMC or at least an SD card, then.You shouldn't 'need' an SSD when other operating systems (*cough, not MacOS) run fine off spinners. That's the inherent issue here, the SSD is a BandAid on a sore knee.
It's funny you mention that, I've started to notice some real limitations on SATA-based SSDs, even good ones.After switching to NVME SSDs on all my main machines, I don't even want to use SATA SSDs for any OS. As far as I'm concerned, spinning platters are for backups now.
None of the people you're referring to are ever EVER going to run Linux. 4GB and Spinners are old technology. You're essentially arguing we should run modern cars on the same engine that a Model T ran on (keeping in mind I have no idea what those engines were). It's 2021. Running on a specs that were on the low side 15 years ago is not an argument against Windows 10. Time marches on and we need modern hardware to run modern software. I'm sorry, but *nix is not good enough for the common man. If it annoys me, a Computers Scientist/Engineer, just imagine what it'd do to the average windows user.But you're an enthusiast, and that's something most on these forums fail to consider. Either that or they try to compare their experiences with bulk numbers of Windows systems with corporate networks where the Windows core network is locked down and hidden neatly behind Linux servers and the users dont run administrator accounts relying on nothing more than UAC to keep the nasties out.
Also consider that I'm not taking past tense, these 4GB/mechanical HDD systems are still being sold and are quite popular. Until the user gets one home, installs third party AV as the salesperson upsold them on it, and the machine virtually struggles to process the OS alone.
..but you also have to realize is that .. you just can't use Windows 10 and be secure .. because ..if you think you are not infected with something of some kind .. you in fact are infected .. because .. you just can't use Windows 10 .. and .. and be secure .. you know?None of the people you're referring to are ever EVER going to run Linux. 4GB and Spinners are old technology. You're essentially arguing we should run modern cars on the same engine that a Model T ran on (keeping in mind I have no idea what those engines were). It's 2021. Running on a specs that were on the low side 15 years ago is not an argument against Windows 10. Time marches on and we need modern hardware to run modern software. I'm sorry, but *nix is not good enough for the common man. If it annoys me, a Computers Scientist/Engineer, just imagine what it'd do to the average windows user.
I get what you're saying. I can remember making that argument 25 years ago about Windows 95, but eventually, you just have to move on. I liked some of the control I had with Dos, but I have no idea to go back to dos, Win9x, XP or even Vista. hell, I don't want to go back to 7, though it'd be acceptable.
FFS, I just looked at dell desktops, and an 8GB desktop is about $450. I'd argue for 16gb now, but I was arguing for 8GB with Vista and 7 and 16gb today is less than 8GB back then.
If those people want linux, than have at it, but my guess is the people who are buying 8gb machines, nevermind those who buy 4GB machines (whoever sells those) would be very unhappy if they ran Linux.
I currently, at work, have 8 windows open across 3 screens in Windows 10. That's probably a little on the low side for numbers of windows opened. That doesn't count multiple tabs in a browser. Why search for a program? 99% of my time is using the same programs every single day. They all sit in my task bar and I just click on them to open just like many versions of windows. I haven't looked at the Start Menu in months.If I only used one program at a time, I would agree with you. But then that's how we worked in dos.
But when doing real work, I have 6 to 12 programs running at the same time, spread across multiple displays.
Having to take my hand off the mouse to type in a search for a program is stupid - for me. Having to fumble on a window border when trying to resize (because it is invisible ) is stupid- for me.
Shutting down at the end of the work day is a best practice for my particular situation. That aint going to change no matter the os.
His complaint doesn’t even make sense. Unless the program you want is the first thing you see in the “classic” start menu, it’s quicker to type the name and hit enter. The only exception to that is if it’s a vertical app that doesn’t work with search (IME, that’s typically java programs).I currently, at work, have 8 windows open across 3 screens in Windows 10. That's probably a little on the low side for numbers of windows opened. That doesn't count multiple tabs in a browser. Why search for a program? 99% of my time is using the same programs every single day. They all sit in my task bar and I just click on them to open just like many versions of windows. I haven't looked at the Start Menu in months.
As for window resizing I'm not sure what you mean. I'm resizing no problems. The intelligent snapping is far better in W10 than previous versions so resizing is very easy I find.
Geez, I know. And then you get the people who use "classic start menu" software instead of learning to use pinned icons and search on the menu. Ok, Fred Flintstone, keep doing things the slow way.We literally have had these silly start menu bitch rests for at least 12 years (starting with 7).
His complaint doesn’t even make sense. Unless the program you want is the first thing you see in the “classic” start menu, it’s quicker to type the name and hit enter. The only exception to that is if it’s a vertical app that doesn’t work with search (IME, that’s typically java programs).
Under classic, I’d have had to click on multiple folders to get to my program (Unless i’t’s pinned to the start menu, and if that’s the case, just pin it to the start menu or pin it to the task bar and be done with it.
We literally have had these silly start menu bitch rests for at least 12 years (starting with 7).
If you have a keyboard, it's faster to type than hunt through a massive start menu tree with a mouse (or worse with a touchpad), which you either had to organize yourself, because Windows just tossed everything int it's own folder, or you just left them as windows put it, which is even worse.Ever stop to think that not everyone has identical use cases?
Not every computer is sitting on a desk in a clean office with a full keyboard available.
I like this: https://ueli.app/#/His complaint doesn’t even make sense. Unless the program you want is the first thing you see in the “classic” start menu, it’s quicker to type the name and hit enter. The only exception to that is if it’s a vertical app that doesn’t work with search (IME, that’s typically java programs).
Under classic, I’d have had to click on multiple folders to get to my program (Unless i’t’s pinned to the start menu, and if that’s the case, just pin it to the start menu or pin it to the task bar and be done with it.
We literally have had these silly start menu bitch rests for at least 12 years (starting with 7).
I like this: https://ueli.app/#/
I use Open Shell as well, I just like that I can use it as a calculator too. Coming from macOS so it's making the transition back to Windows a little easier. I absolutely hate the new Start Menu.I used Classic Shell when it came out and continue to use Open-Shell: https://github.com/Open-Shell/Open-Shell-Menu/releases
It has the Windows 7 menus which are pretty good and you just use the Super key like you normally would.