The Real Value Of $100 In Each State

[amddragonpc]

Now we need a tax structure map overlaid on this map and the correlation will be clear. Taxes destroy the purchasing value of a dollar. Where I live, buy a drink that has sugar in it and it is not taxed at 2% (like food) but at 9.75% (general merchandise). Cigarettes are up to $13 dollars a pack versus in the next county its $7. Go across the state line and its less than $5. Buy fast food and its taxed at 9.75%. Buy a cigar and its taxed at 9.75% and then they throw in another .30/cigar fee on top of that. The list goes on and on.

 

[Thuleman]

I heat with free wood

I always knew that people didn't understand opportunity cost in MMOs when they farmed a drop for 10 hours and called it 'free', I just didn't realize that people do the same in the real world as well. Mindboggling, but does prove the stereotype.

 

[Thuleman]

Now we need a tax structure map overlaid on this map and the correlation will be clear. Taxes destroy the purchasing value of a dollar. Where I live, buy a drink that has sugar in it and it is not taxed at 2% (like food) but at 9.75% (general merchandise). Cigarettes are up to $13 dollars a pack versus in the next county its $7. Go across the state line and its less than $5. Buy fast food and its taxed at 9.75%. Buy a cigar and its taxed at 9.75% and then they throw in another .30/cigar fee on top of that. The list goes on and on.

Care to explain why states which don't have a state income tax, or no state sales tax, or neither (Alaska doesn't have state income tax nor state sales tax), don't end up on top of the most valuable dollar places if your theory is actually correct?

 

[farscapesg1]

I always knew that people didn't understand opportunity cost in MMOs when they farmed a drop for 10 hours and called it 'free', I just didn't realize that people do the same in the real world as well. Mindboggling, but does prove the stereotype.

I'll agree with this. As an example, my family was down and we had to run out and by beef and corn on the cob for grilling and they were like "you pay how much for corn? We still get ours free from the garden every year". They don't take into account the time spent in tilling and preparing the garden, purchasing seed/fertilizer/etc., watering/fertilizing/weeding, harvesting, canning/packaging, then storing it in a deep freeze. Sure, they didn't pay someone for it at the store, but they paid for it in labor and other costs.

 

[SRTie4k]

I always knew that people didn't understand opportunity cost in MMOs when they farmed a drop for 10 hours and called it 'free', I just didn't realize that people do the same in the real world as well. Mindboggling, but does prove the stereotype.

What cost would that be in reference to free wood?

 

[SilverSliver]

Bottom line is if you, for some reason, can't find a job and you have not moved to Texas, the Dakotas, or WY by now - you are not really trying. Pretty much any state that has an oil field has the best buying power coupled with the lowest unemployment rates and highest paying jobs.

 

[Thuleman]

What cost would that be in reference to free wood?

Seriously?
You have to pay for a chain saw, for lubricant and chain saw gas, for safety gear, you have to spend time to fell the tree, limb it, deal with the stuff you aren't using, cut the trunk into small enough log sections to transport it in a truck (which you have to buy, pay to operate), then you have to spend more time cutting the wood into whatever length fits into your store, split the wood. Then you have to store the cords and cords of wood somewhere for a year or two to season the wood. Then you have to reshuffle the dry wood down to your consumption area and backfill with new green wood.

You also have to accept the risk of injury (or death) inherent to all that activity, and believe me, it's ez to put too much strain on your back while working with firewood.

Monetary expense and risk aside, you have to consider whether your time would not be better spend doing something else instead. For example, I burn 3-4 cords of wood per year. Where I live 1 cord takes me about 2 trees cut on my property. I am not super fast at it, so I estimate that it will cost me 5-6 hours from start to finish to create one split and stacked cord of wood. Or I can just pay someone $180 to get a cord split, delivered, and stacked. So that's $30/hour. Is my time worth $30/hr to me? Well of course it is. I make more than that at work, and I'd rather pay someone $30/hr to deal with the firewood than spend what little leisure time I have on dealing with it.

 

[Stiletto]

So, more or less, the states where a $100 goes "farthest" are those with horrible economies, shitty job markets, and those most lacking in healthcare, education, and farthest behind in modern infrastructure... and there's also the glaring lack of civilization and anything aside from hillbilly culture in many of the highest ranked, but I suppose that part is subjective.

All in all, looks like the states you'd most not want to live in list to me.

Just about the most bigoted statement I've seen on these forums.

 

[MavericK]

I never understood why they find the need to use shades that are so similar to each other that it's ridiculous trying to differentiate between them. Why can't they just use solid colors like white, red, blue, black etc.

Yeah, whoever designed that graph is apparently blind or something.

 

[SRTie4k]

Seriously?
You have to pay for a chain saw, for lubricant and chain saw gas, for safety gear, you have to spend time to fell the tree, limb it, deal with the stuff you aren't using, cut the trunk into small enough log sections to transport it in a truck (which you have to buy, pay to operate), then you have to spend more time cutting the wood into whatever length fits into your store, split the wood. Then you have to store the cords and cords of wood somewhere for a year or two to season the wood. Then you have to reshuffle the dry wood down to your consumption area and backfill with new green wood.

You also have to accept the risk of injury (or death) inherent to all that activity, and believe me, it's ez to put too much strain on your back while working with firewood.

Monetary expense and risk aside, you have to consider whether your time would not be better spend doing something else instead. For example, I burn 3-4 cords of wood per year. Where I live 1 cord takes me about 2 trees cut on my property. I am not super fast at it, so I estimate that it will cost me 5-6 hours from start to finish to create one split and stacked cord of wood. Or I can just pay someone $180 to get a cord split, delivered, and stacked. So that's $30/hour. Is my time worth $30/hr to me? Well of course it is. I make more than that at work, and I'd rather pay someone $30/hr to deal with the firewood than spend what little leisure time I have on dealing with it.

What I hear you saying is you don't like doing it, which is why you value it as time wasted. Someone else might value it as a hobby or relaxing. And not everything you listed can be considered an expense directly attributable to cutting wood specifically.

For instance, my brother in law has 26 acres, a lot of which is wooded, that he is foresting for his own fire wood. Almost everyone around here daily drives a truck (he is no exception) that also gets used to tow snowmobiles, or haul garbage, or carry furniture...point is you can't state the truck is an expensive exclusively towards carrying wood.

The chain saw? Sure, it's used for wood cutting, but a good chainsaw will last decades. It's a one time expense. And it also serves the purpose of cutting down trees for the sake of landscaping, so again, it also serves a dual purpose.

The gas? Completely negligible.

And who do you buy wood from that will stack it for you? You must live in a utopia, because around here when you buy a cord of wood they drive it over in a dump truck and dump it on your lawn, and you get to stack it.

And lastly, he enjoys cutting his own wood. He doesn't consider it a nuisance. Thus his time is not as valuable as yours apparently is.


If you want to get technical, nothing is free. Air isn't even free, since you have to waste energy to breathe it, and plants have to waste energy to produce it. But most of us consider air 100% free, just like some people consider wood that is self cut 100% free. It's all a matter of perspective.

 

[Carouselambra]

Another reason to hate New York.

 

[pigster]

Now we need a tax structure map overlaid on this map and the correlation will be clear.

The table on this page may be interesting. Shows raw per capita disposable income and per capita income after taxes

 

[GunzofNavarone]

Force apple to build a giant ipod factory in detroit.... give them every tax break and free land they want. Give Free Job training right on the plant site. Pay the workers a very good wage with benefits. Other Companies would follow. Then watch Detroit spring back to life and crime drop. These giant urban cities were built on the backbone of Big Industry. You ship a million jobs to China and put nothing in its place.. Urban decay is inevitable. The giant cities can come back.... but you have to build stuff in the USA again.

 

[gabhpr]

Spoken like the truly ignorant, arrogant, bigoted leftist idiot you are.

How's the job market in New York vs a "backwards" state like Texas or North Dakota?

Where's your family better off, surrounded by "hillbilly" culture or gang-banger culture?

YAY RACISM ON HARDOCP!!!

The Job market in New York is a lot better than the job market in Texas or ND if you remove all the oil jobs. Without oil neither of those two states could survive.
How is that low ranking education, healthcare, quality of life, insurance coverage, lack of workers rights, third world country government working out for you?

 

[Thuleman]

Thus his time is not as valuable as yours apparently is.

That's really what it comes down to, but anything you have to spend time on (even if you don't count the other expenses) comes at the cost of time. Just because you enjoy doing it doesn't make it free because while you are cutting wood you obviously can't do something else.

Pro tip on buying wood split, delivered, and stacked; don't buy from commercial loggers. Buy from some kid who just tries to earn a little cash. Around here wood from commercial loggers costs $250 split and delivered, but not stacked, if you buy one cord at a time, down to $200 for three cords and up, down to $170 for ten cords and up.

I honestly think that there is a cultural difference in how people think about time in those states where $100 is "worth" $110+ and those states where the $100 is "worth" less than $100, and that is probably directly related to how much money middle class actually makes.

When you make 45k/yr (Hellooooo Arkansas, Missourah, Tennessee, etc.) then you wouldn't dream of paying someone for firewood if you had the capacity to cut it yourself just because you simply don't have the money to pay someone. When you make 90k/yr (for the same 40-50 hours of work per week) then you have plenty of cash to pay someone else for services that you could do yourself but don't have to do yourself anymore.

I could change the oil our vehicles myself, I certainly know how to do it, and in years long since past I regularly did it myself. Today I just pay the guy at Jiffy Lube $50 to do it for me while I sit in their comfortable waiting room, drinking the coffee they provide, and catch up on emails while they also vacuum the floor mats and wash the windows.

It absolutely is a matter of perspective, it's just that those who earn higher incomes tend to value their time more than those who earn lower incomes.

 

[gabhpr]

Just about the most bigoted statement I've seen on these forums.

Yupp. Not the racism, homophobia, or sexism.
Not at all!.
Pointing out that red states are closer to a third world country than a developed nation is soooo bigoted!

 

[c3141hf]

And I answered it. I can find a *good* job in New York a hell of a lot easier than fucking Dakota...

But if you're opinion of a good "job" is pumping oil, cutting down forests, or some other kind of mindless unskilled labor... then maybe you're right.

North Dakota has a booming job market. The fact that you are averse to hard work does not mean that they aren't good jobs. And if you think that working in oil drilling is mindless unskilled labor, I invite you to apply for one of the jobs; you wouldn't last a day. Just because a job involves physical labor dose not mean it is unskilled labor.

 

[farscapesg1]

"booming job market" is completely dependent on what type of work you are looking at. Sure, some areas might have tons of jobs for skill labor like oil drilling and such, but poor opportunities for someone more technically-oriented. Personally, working outside isn't my cup of tea, but to say that "the market is great here" because that is your line of work doesn't fly in my opinion. For a market to be booming, IMO, the opportunities need to cover multiple areas. I do IT for healthcare and have been very happy in the Houston area, but if I was back in my home state of Oklahoma I would be struggling.

How's the job market in North Dakota for a consulting systems engineer with 15 years experience in the healthcare area? If not so good... then it's market isn't booming in my opinion

 

[c3141hf]

"booming job market" is completely dependent on what type of work you are looking at. Sure, some areas might have tons of jobs for skill labor like oil drilling and such, but poor opportunities for someone more technically-oriented. Personally, working outside isn't my cup of tea, but to say that "the market is great here" because that is your line of work doesn't fly in my opinion. For a market to be booming, IMO, the opportunities need to cover multiple areas. I do IT for healthcare and have been very happy in the Houston area, but if I was back in my home state of Oklahoma I would be struggling.

How's the job market in North Dakota for a consulting systems engineer with 15 years experience in the healthcare area? If not so good... then it's market isn't booming in my opinion

Someone needs to provide healthcare for all of the new residents. And someone needs to provide computer support to all of the healthcare providers as they grow.

 

[SilverSliver]

"booming job market" is completely dependent on what type of work you are looking at. Sure, some areas might have tons of jobs for skill labor like oil drilling and such, but poor opportunities for someone more technically-oriented. Personally, working outside isn't my cup of tea, but to say that "the market is great here" because that is your line of work doesn't fly in my opinion. For a market to be booming, IMO, the opportunities need to cover multiple areas. I do IT for healthcare and have been very happy in the Houston area, but if I was back in my home state of Oklahoma I would be struggling.

How's the job market in North Dakota for a consulting systems engineer with 15 years experience in the healthcare area? If not so good... then it's market isn't booming in my opinion

Mechanical engineers, electrical engineers, petroleum engineers and geologists are all in extremely high demand. IT guys to set up field networks and accommodate the expansion of office networks are also in high demand. Sales positions and service positions are also in extremely high demand. You can come out into the oil patch and, regardless of expertise or experience, find a job and make at or very near six figures immediately.

 

[wabbitseason]

^ there is no end to the amount of people I have met who were sick of over priced big city living on the coasts and sought out good jobs in the Midwest to escape the rat race. The way I see it is if I want to experience the big city life, restaurants or whatever else. I will use some of the wads of cash I saved living somewhere cheaper to visit it. The young fools who think they are going to make it big in the big city can flush their money down the toilet to keep the economy and over priced everything floating so I can visit here and there.

Boy this is my position on this 100%. Hate traffic, hate crowds, hate ridiculously expensive real estate, hate ultra-liberal 'progressives', and hate the rat race. I'm still in Cali, but eagerly seeking a way out. Dead-on Rudy.

 

[wabbitseason]

I don't think either living situation is right for everyone. My social activities are greatly different than big city living, but that doesn't bother me. Sitting around an evening fire drinking beers with friends is fine by me.

Some ignorant idiot earlier posted about good luck on minorities settling in with bigoted rednecks or something like that. First, fuck you. Second, I live in a very small town and have friends of all sorts of races. Third, fuck you.

Bravo sir. Bravo.

 

[Thuleman]

There are exactly 35 IT jobs posted on Dice for the entire state of North Dakota, just FYI.

 

[SilverSliver]

There are exactly 35 IT jobs posted on Dice for the entire state of North Dakota, just FYI.

If you are an IT guy, you need to be looking at where the offices are - not the wells.

 

[Riptide_NVN]

Pointing out that red states are closer to a third world country than a developed nation is soooo bigoted!

You're right. The red state I live in is about 1" closer to a third world country. If that third world country was about 1 mile away.

 

[Semantics]

The tax policy consequences of this data are significant. For example, because taxes must be calculated based on nominal income, the average New York resident pays significantly more in taxes than the average Kansas resident. But the Kansas resident actually has higher purchasing power, meaning that they get to pay lower taxes despite getting to have a richer amount of consumption.

Yeah but you have to live in kansas a flyover state.

 

[Benzino]

If you are an IT guy, you need to be looking at where the offices are - not the wells.

QFT ^^. Dice.com is not the end-all for finding IT jobs. I haven't touched in years.
As an IT guy in North Dakota, the eastern side of the state is booming for IT.

 

[Iching]

I love Texas. The energy industry will continue to pull the rest of the country up out of the mud while the Yanks and lefties hate us.

You are all the same to me since I am from Europe. But, seriously, why you are all so slow in Texas?

 

[Iching]

Boy this is my position on this 100%. Hate traffic, hate crowds, hate ridiculously expensive real estate, hate ultra-liberal 'progressives', and hate the rat race. I'm still in Cali, but eagerly seeking a way out. Dead-on Rudy.

Blame baby boomers. If you can take/transfer your job to a different state then go for it.

 

[SilverSliver]

You are all the same to me since I am from Europe. But, seriously, why you are all so slow in Texas?

Don't worry. You'll be thanking us slow Texans when Russia shuts off your gas in the winter time. But, we are awfully slow, don't know if we can get those LNG export facilities up and running in time.

 

[Thuleman]

The tax policy consequences of this data are significant. For example, because taxes must be calculated based on nominal income, the average New York resident pays significantly more in taxes than the average Kansas resident. But the Kansas resident actually has higher purchasing power, meaning that they get to pay lower taxes despite getting to have a richer amount of consumption.

Confirming that when you have 35k to spend after they taxed your 45k you are far better off than you are when you have 60k to spend after they taxed your 90k.

Some of the reasoning on these "lower ma taxes nao!" sites is just mindboggling. But as this thread has shown, stuff like that falls on fertile ground (get it?!) and people just spoon it right up.

QFT ^^. Dice.com is not the end-all for finding IT jobs. I haven't touched in years.
As an IT guy in North Dakota, the eastern side of the state is booming for IT.

Let me try to figure out whether I follow what you are saying:
1. ND has lots of open IT jobs.
2. Most of those jobs are not posted on Dice.
3. ND has trouble filling all the job openings, which is why they are still open.
4. Most of those jobs are not posted on Dice.
5. Presumably they are posted elsewhere, where someone who is currently not in ND can find them, because those who are already in ND are already employed and even if they were to take an open position it would create another vacancy elsewhere in ND.
6. ???
7. Profit

For shits and giggles I searched Indeed (probably the World's largest job posting aggregator) for "information technology" in ND, and found a whopping 113 jobs, some of which are were US Navy sponsored jobs not in ND, and some of which were national recruitments from IBM and such. Let's be generous and say that there are 100 IT jobs listed for the entire state. Just LOL.

C'mon, just leave it at that there are thousands of good jobs in ND, just not in IT. That's not bad, no need to argue otherwise.

 

[Basheron]

I'm calling complete BS on some of the posters here.

For one, your ass is sitting in a jet made in a flyover state you are ridiculing.

 

[tetris42]

Yeah this thread is kind of a perfect storm of city elitists thinking they're superior in culture and making pompous statements about half the country or more v. overly proud rural residents willfully ignorant of how disastrous some of their states' policies are, even if the actual landscape can be nice. Combined with political preconceptions, I'm sure it will lead to intelligent discourse.

 

[heatlesssun]

Yeah this thread is kind of a perfect storm of city elitists thinking they're superior in culture and making pompous statements about half the country or more v. overly proud rural residents willfully ignorant of how disastrous some of their states' policies are, even if the actual landscape can be nice. Combined with political preconceptions, I'm sure it will lead to intelligent discourse.

Four words, population density and diversity. That's at the heart of all of this. I know diversity is a dirty word around, nonetheless, the world is full of people not like the average person in this forum. That said, in the eyes if God, we've all fallen short. We're different and yet the same. The paradox called life.

 

[nightfly]

Spoken like the truly ignorant, arrogant, bigoted leftist idiot you are.

How's the job market in New York vs a "backwards" state like Texas or North Dakota?

Where's your family better off, surrounded by "hillbilly" culture or gang-banger culture?

Those aren't the only two choices. But after doing both, I'd rather live close enough to NYC to avail myself of all it offers when I want it. Living out in the sticks, well, that's all that is available, sticks, hay, manure, etc.. Rural life is simply much more limited than suburban; and not all suburbs are like Ferguson, MO. I live about 12 mi outside of NYC, no gang bangers, no riots, peaceful for the past 50 years, yet a short ride to Manhattan whenever I want terrific entertainment choices. Food, everything is here. EVERYTHING.
Job market? We have a guy who travels up here from Tennessee because the salaries up here are double what he could make down there. There's always work out there available if you're really, really good at what you do. And if no one you know can get you an interview, or you can't land a job? Maybe you're not as good as you think you are.

 

[Stiletto]

YAY RACISM ON HARDOCP!!!

The Job market in New York is a lot better than the job market in Texas or ND if you remove all the oil jobs. Without oil neither of those two states could survive.
How is that low ranking education, healthcare, quality of life, insurance coverage, lack of workers rights, third world country government working out for you?

I like how "hillbilly" isn't racist but "gang-banger" is.

 

[Benzino]

For shits and giggles I searched Indeed (probably the World's largest job posting aggregator) for "information technology" in ND, and found a whopping 113 jobs, some of which are were US Navy sponsored jobs not in ND, and some of which were national recruitments from IBM and such. Let's be generous and say that there are 100 IT jobs listed for the entire state. Just LOL.

C'mon, just leave it at that there are thousands of good jobs in ND, just not in IT. That's not bad, no need to argue otherwise.

I feel for anyone trying to find a job off of spam sites like Monster, Indeed, and Dice.

I'm a local, I know the scene. I know the real websites you should be looking at for job hunting. I know the big employers, I know who's hiring, and I know who is doing well.

Maybe its a good thing outsiders can't figure out how to find IT jobs in North Dakota, more for the locals.

Anyways, I digress. There are other technologies that are booming (ag, oil, construction, wind energy). East side of the state is a good place to live, if you can tolerate the winters. West side of the state, not so much.

 

[maverikv]

How is hillbilly racist?

 

[Thuleman]

I feel for anyone trying to find a job off of spam sites like Monster, Indeed, and Dice.

I'm a local, I know the scene. I know the real websites you should be looking at for job hunting. I know the big employers, I know who's hiring, and I know who is doing well.

To a company that's trying to fill those thousands of booming economy jobs you are talking about it makes exactly ZERO sense to posts jobs only to a place that doesn't have any national reach or name recognition. Every minute a job is open the company is losing money if they have a need for that position to be filled.

So which is more likely; that there's an obscure web site only very few "in-the-know" people know about, or that there simply aren't hundreds or thousands IT of jobs.

Any major metropolitan area in the US will have hundreds of IT jobs within city limits, North Dakota doesn't have hundreds of IT jobs across the entire state. It doesn't take a rocket surgeon to figure this out.

 

[Benzino]

Any major metropolitan area in the US will have hundreds of IT jobs within city limits, North Dakota doesn't have hundreds of IT jobs across the entire state. It doesn't take a rocket surgeon to figure this out.

Take a look.