The Hybrid Car Is Already Facing Obsolescence

Wouldn't this be a good thing and keep more money in your account? Just because there's a rise or drop in gas prices doesn't mean your hybrid is useless in terms of cost effectiveness... Duh.
 
Rob94hawk said:
Why do most hybrids look like rolling turds?
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this one is pretty.

:ROFLMAO:
 
Vercinaigh said:
Relative statement is relative, what is affordable to you is dirt cheap or insanely expensive to another. How about you try a argument that is not based on a pure opinion piece with little solid basis for comparative purposes and agreement chances.
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Thank you for this...

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sfsuphysics said:
Yeah, not putting down people who want new cars every 5-6 years but I drive mine until the wheels fall off, or the maintenance becomes too costly.

and the most recent hybrid I bought for my wife (Rav4) needs them every 10k miles.
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I try to replace my cars a few months before the wheels fall off. The resell value is a little better. :D

How do you like the Rav 4 Hybrid?
I've been considering one to replace our 11 year old minivan.
 
arthur_tuxedo said:
I do agree with the premise up to a certain point. Traditional ICE engines have become much more efficient over the last 10 years, especially on the highway. You can buy a non-hybrid and not feel like you've personally clubbed a baby seal to death using a smaller baby seal. If you want to be visibly green, a gas hybrid without a plug isn't going to win you many points, although these days they are often better cars than their non-hybrid stablemates.

In the long run, I believe that PHEV's like the Chevy Volt and Prius Prime will rule the 2020's and pure BEV's will take over after that, as it will finally become cheaper to include a giant battery than to shove in a gasoline drivetrain. Either way, even 20 miles of electric-only range will cover most trips and solve the passenger vehicle emissions problem. Pure BEV's are just icing on the cake for environmental impact.
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If you mainly drive the open highway, then don't both with a hybrid, as the 10% better mileage will make the payback period too long.

As for Plug-in hybrids, I have several problems.
1. The large battery & electric motors add significant costs.
2. I have yet to find a plugin that come with or has a place for a spare tire. I will never buy a car that doesn't at least have a compact spare.
3. The cost for electricity is so high here in Southern California that there are almost no savings over the gas a hybrid uses. Makes the payback period for the higher priced plugin even longer than a hybrid.

There are programs to charge your car with lower priced electricity, but most of them don't make sense if you have family at home all day.
You can also install a 2nd meter just to charge the car, but that will add even more years to the break even point.
 
MV75 said:
Hybrids, lol. The joke of all trades. Lip service to cater to morons who pay an extra $xxK to "save" $4/week in fuel. Plug in hybrids are even more of a joke. "Let's get 50 miles on a charge (not reality as that 50 miles stated is for short bursts, not continuous driving), while lugging around a full ice drive system"!
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Just show you really don't know that much about Hybrids.

I get almost double the mileage with my hybrid, and even with my short commute and the current low gas prices, it still saves me over $500 a year.

The Prius & Camry hybrids have a very simplified transmission when compared to many modern cars with 5 & 6 speed transmissions. They also have smaller electric motors and batteries than plugins. The Camry hybrid is only around 220 pounds more than the 4 cyl model, and as the hybrid is faster in the 1/4 mile it doesn't seem to have any problem "lugging" around the ICE.

The Honda accord hybrid (current) model uses an even simpler solution to replace the complex transmission.

With an all electric car, you are lugging around that huge battery, even when it has almost no charge left.

I'll consider an electric car when there is one with a 500+ mile range, I can recharge it (full charge) in less than 10 minutes, and it comes with a spare tire.
 
I mostly don't care much for hybrids because they been used to incentivize the wrong direction... They ideally would be more transitional, and less directional, as they've been employed...

I'm not saying we should all fall in love with pigeons, but this dude understood our relationship to energy...

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This direction makes more sense, eventually we won't need an on-board generator for range...

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I also think Mr. Lutz knows what's up...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_EV1
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VIA_Motors

I'm still trying to figure out what type of horse I should keep...



As for super/hyper cars, build whatever the fuck, because that's exactly what they're for...
 
Hybrid cars have to be one of the most idiotic attempts at solving a problem...

On the one hand, you have the environment - but a hybrid car creates several magnitudes higher levels of pollution in production just because of the batteries it carries and other components.

On the other hand, using one normally, they simply aren't that efficient at all, so you don't save much fuel anyway.

Totally ridiculous things and I hope they go away soon.
 
People who think the only purpose of a hybrid is to be fuel efficient or green are stuck living in a 10 year old mentality. Hybrids are simply better than pure ICE in every way. There is a reason more and more super cars are going the hybrid route.
 
I think many people confuse hybrids like a 'hybrid' Honda Civic for instance and a Prius. These are as closely similar as the vehicle in the Jetsons and a school bus. They can carry more than one people and that's about it.
Trying to gain performance with an electric motor is completely different from using it for powering a car. Sometimes only by itself.

I doubled my mileage with a used gen3 Prius some 3 years ago (standard, not plug-in). It has almost the highest level trim, so it is soo comfortable. Its price was lower than buying a very small, but new car with a basic trim.
I take it to Toyota for regular maintenance. I always get a complimentary one year of assistance service for all Europe and can extend the hybrid warranty for like $10.
It will turn 8 and is just below 110k miles, but still has its original 12V battery. Besides oil and filter changing and cleaning the AC, the only thing replaced was a bulb lighting the rear license plate.

<sarcasm>
Oh yeah, it is not efficient, overly complex making maintenance painful and expensive and it is responsible for a lot more pollution because of all the parts getting replaced during maintenance.
</sarcasm>

As others said: just look at taxis wherever in the world. Nearly all the new ones are Prii and not electric cars (yet). Doing millions of miles, requiring only standard maintenance.
ICE cars are mainly the older ones or luxury cars, vans, or others fulfilling a special need.

Various, even new, French and German ICE cars have electrical issues, need regular replacements of front bulbs, 12V batteries and repair of the drive train and clutch.
Most of the new stop&go ICE cars are a joke. Stopping the diesel engine even right after you powered on the car. Before the drive train is at normal operating temperature and lubricated. A DIESEL engine. Have fun getting the expensive filters and whatnot replaced every few years or so. This is because these manufacturers have fallen behind, but are still trying to grasp a few people. Only to lose them when these cars will fall to pieces internally.

If less people would bash the hybrids which are perfectly good, more hybrids would be manufactured than ICE-only cars, which in turn would make them cheaper, and even get rid of the 'break even' arguement altogether.
I hope hydrogen fuel cell cars or some other technology can cut through all these false arguements generated by fear, hatred and political reasons!
 
0neTwo said:
If your entire argument is based on what YOU can or cant afford, then its time to hit that X in the top corner and let people with logic and reason discuss the topic.
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I can technically afford some of them... I'm not interested in investing in something I don't agree with long term... That's all... Though I definitely can't afford any of the over 100k models like the P100D, NSX, etc... Yet...

I'm using it more in this direction:
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Worth of direction outweighs the worth of temporary/superficial benefits such as increased range/economy IMO... But whatever keeps people happy to some degree is usually how it plays out...

So I'll keep doing my thing, and everybody else can keep doing their own thing... Capisce?

#ThanksForBeingAnOfficialJudge #ThanksForSkimmingTheThreadAndNotReadingAnyFollowups
 
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MikeTrike said:
I won't buy them for the same reason I wouldn't buy a hybrid SSD... I can't justify spending money on something I don't like, but I won't tell others they're not allowed...
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Mike, you can get a used Chevy Volt, a car that has a sub 7 second 0-60, a 30 mile all electric range, and a hybrid mode that rivals any Prius or any other traditional hybrid for $15k or less. I got a 2013 model more than a year ago for $15k with only 8,000 miles on it.

If I put a full charge on the car every day my electricity bill will increase a whopping $20 a month. The only time my wife and I ever have to fill the gas tank is when we do long trips, at which point our gas mileage goes from 250+ for our normal daily driving to ~37mpg average for a trip to her mom's house.

It's a brilliant little car. The battery is the perfect size for most people's daily driving. Why pay for 7x battery that you only use a few times a year? Why plan those infrequent trips around where you can charge? It has a fairly small gas tank (7 gallons), but because the drive train is so efficient I can get ~230 miles out of those 7 gallons, so I only have to fill the tank those few times a year when I'm taking a longer trip.


Now, you'll probably want to respond by pointing to some gas vehicle that you think is better. Let me compare the Volt to the best selling sedan in the U.S., the Toyota Camry.

The Camry has a 0-60 of 7 seconds, no electric range but a 28mpg combined gas mileage efficiency, and you can get a three year old used one with ~8,000 miles for $16-19k.

So it costs more to purchase, keep filled with gas and maintain. A used Volt is a no-brainer for the consumer, even if you don't like it.
 
d_stilgar said:
Mike, you can get a used Chevy Volt, a car that has a sub 7 second 0-60, a 30 mile all electric range, and a hybrid mode that rivals any Prius or any other traditional hybrid for $15k or less. I got a 2013 model more than a year ago for $15k with only 8,000 miles on it.

If I put a full charge on the car every day my electricity bill will increase a whopping $20 a month. The only time my wife and I ever have to fill the gas tank is when we do long trips, at which point our gas mileage goes from 250+ for our normal daily driving to ~37mpg average for a trip to her mom's house.

It's a brilliant little car. The battery is the perfect size for most people's daily driving. Why pay for 7x battery that you only use a few times a year? Why plan those infrequent trips around where you can charge? It has a fairly small gas tank (7 gallons), but because the drive train is so efficient I can get ~230 miles out of those 7 gallons, so I only have to fill the tank those few times a year when I'm taking a longer trip.


Now, you'll probably want to respond by pointing to some gas vehicle that you think is better. Let me compare the Volt to the best selling sedan in the U.S., the Toyota Camry.

The Camry has a 0-60 of 7 seconds, no electric range but a 28mpg combined gas mileage efficiency, and you can get a three year old used one with ~8,000 miles for $16-19k.

So it costs more to purchase, keep filled with gas and maintain. A used Volt is a no-brainer for the consumer, even if you don't like it.
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While that's nice for you, and I applaud your good deal/find... I'll also agree that it's a decent vehicle, even up against Toyota...

However, IDGAF about GM, outside of ties to VIA...
 
Damar said:
Pfft, $2.40 a gallon. I remember in the 80's when regular gas was 0.98 cents a gallon... because I was pumping it for a high school job.
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Well... $0.98 in 1980 - 1989 is roughly equivalent to $1.98 - $3.09 in 2017 dollars when adjusted for inflation. That's actually well within the range we see for regular presently.
 
Damar said:
Pfft, $2.40 a gallon. I remember in the 80's when regular gas was 0.98 cents a gallon... because I was pumping it for a high school job.
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Damn, that was expensive. When I moved out of New Jersey in 1991 I saw 87 for $0.79 to $0.84 all along the east coast until we crossed into South Carolina. We were shocked that 87 was $1.15 here in Florida at the time.
 
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