I find that hard to believe...maybe for a limited time you get the wow factor (like 30 minutes or so) but for a 2+ hour movie even if watching solo I can't see goggles ever being better than a large screen QD-OLED or projector...same as when 3D was trying to become mainstream...no matter how cool it was for 1 movie (Avatar) or as a tech demo I would not want that as my primary device
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The Apple Vision Pro goes on sale in the US on February 2 for $3,499
- Thread starter polonyc2
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I find that hard to believe...maybe for a limited time you get the wow factor (like 30 minutes or so) but for a 2+ hour movie even if watching solo I can't see goggles ever being better than a large screen QD-OLED or projector...same as when 3D was trying to become mainstream...no matter how cool it was for 1 movie (Avatar) or as a tech demo I would not want that as my primary device
this is definitely something ahead of its time...maybe so far ahead that most people can't see the possibilities...like the guy in the video linked below stated, this is going to be the worst revision of the Vision Pro Apple ever releases...it's only going to get better with each new model...Apple would not have jumped into the AR market if they thought it was going to fail...
View: https://youtu.be/UvkgmyfMPks?t=440
View: https://youtu.be/UvkgmyfMPks?t=440
If they can get this thing way smaller, it will be quite extraordinary.
UnknownSouljer
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Yes.... I've been stating for pages that the whole point of this device is the investment into AR (including posts of mine that you quoted and tried to argue). Which Apple is branding "spatial computing".
It's going to take another 10-20 years, but that's the goal. To be very early in and replace the cellphone before anyone else.
Once these get down to the size of a regular pair of glasses, it's over.
Night driving without any blindspot because you see through the car like military plane pilot and near daylight quality, with GPS and other control access without having to leave your eye from the road sound great.
"The Apple Vision Pro goes on sale in the US on February 2 for $3,499"
When I heard them say on the news that it was going to cost "34 99" I seriously thought they meant $34.99
1) Why do damn expensive?
2) WTF would the newscaster say "34 99" instead of three thousand four hundred and ninety nine dollars?
It is not a monitor-light client approach where you stream with a device you need to buy, but a high end computer (strong m2 chips) and a very high end VR display 2:1 each eye monitor is over 4k, there is at least 13 camera on it with a special other chip to pre-handle there input (and the lidar, movement sensor, etc...) it is a lot of hardware and a lot of R&D to amortize on a relatively small market (for Apple)
Sniper|3d-R|
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Looks silly and not worth the money imho.
Reminds me of Google glass, but fatter and more ugly.
Reminds me of Google glass, but fatter and more ugly.
If you were in the market for a Hololense 2, then this is a strong alternative. Lots of work use cases for this, but consumer ones, not on my budget that’s for sure.
UnknownSouljer
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What's over? The iPhone?
xDiVolatilX
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3499.99 
UnknownSouljer
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Cellphones in general.
Though to be sure it won't be overnight. With any changes in tech there is always a time that it takes for adoption and for other techs to fade out.
As an example: in the case of the smart phone rise, it took a long time for flip phones and even pagers to die out, which were alternative substitutions. Nearly 10 years in fact.
But, when an AR device that is visually indistinguishable from any "ordinary" pair of glasses exists for $700 (or whatever it will be adjusted for inflation) with all the future computing and spatial tech, yeah, cellphone death will just be a matter of time.
TangledThornz
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Exactly however I would not walk around a city (especially NYC!) wearing a expensive Vision Pro out of fear they could be stolen by some ahole lifting it off your head from behind and running. I'm also curious about peripheral vision, doubt there is any, as that could be important for safety too. I could just see some idiot influencer get themselves killed trying to drive wearing a Vision Pro.
On that note expect lots of disclaimers and warning for this device very soon, lol.
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paradoxical
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Ah fuck it, after reading your comparison of it vs your LG OLED I took a risk and bought it specifically for TV watching. I live alone in a high rise with glass walls and even at night watching scifi can be annoying due to lack of light control and I already use Airpods Max for the audio. I also hate my 75in Samsung QN90A, it's a garbage TV - but I can't upgrade to a high end OLED due to it being literally invisible during the day with reflections from the glass walls. I am hoping I can get a high-fidelity solo video experience with this headset, if it can deliver in that regard I'll consider it worth the price. It's cheaper than a Sony A95.......I'll pick mine up tommorow.
That's for the base model with a paltry 256 GB of storage (nearly 4 grand after tax and Apple still gouges on the storage). The 1 TB model is $3899.3499.99
UnknownSouljer
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Apple devices all get locked to single users via icloud at the hardware level. So though someone could take the hardware, they’d be unusable.
The big issue is there are no “Find My” tracking features on Vision Pro. Making it hard to get them back.
It’s apparently based on fitment.
Maybe. People that drive properly and actually look before making moves won’t have problems. Though as you say peripheral vision, or lack thereof will intrinsically make it harder.
xDiVolatilX
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Or we wait for the market to flood with much cheaper options in the near future and not blow 4 thousand dollars on AR glasses lmao
Watch in a year or two Amazon will have alternatives that can compete at 1/10th of the price or less. (i think it already does but not as polished as these prolly ive seen oled AR glasses you can do a lot of the same things as these already) Buying these are silly unless like to throw money away and can afford to do so comfortably then more power to you.
To many hobbies to split disposable money into and dumping this much into AR glasses is just nuts but again if you're balling out of control then a Bugatti is in the cards for you also as a flex of luxury items. Silly but a flex.
Watch in a year or two Amazon will have alternatives that can compete at 1/10th of the price or less. (i think it already does but not as polished as these prolly ive seen oled AR glasses you can do a lot of the same things as these already) Buying these are silly unless like to throw money away and can afford to do so comfortably then more power to you.
To many hobbies to split disposable money into and dumping this much into AR glasses is just nuts but again if you're balling out of control then a Bugatti is in the cards for you also as a flex of luxury items. Silly but a flex.
The Vision Pro has over 5,000 patents. So it may be a while before we see comparable alternatives.
I mean compare the Vision Pro to the Hololense 2 which has been the gold standard of AR for a while now. And if it look this long to put out something that is better than it and also cheaper with the alternatives out there even failing to match the Hololense then I would certainly not be holding my breath for a cheaper decent alternative any time soon.
UnknownSouljer
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We’re a long way away from anyone getting devices like this for normal daily usage. But I’ll also say, Apple is way ahead of the rest on its tech.
While I expect people will find devices for 1/10th of the price, I would also expect significantly less performance.
EG: unlikely they will get anywhere close to 12ms total system lag. Or have the same level of visual fidelity where there are no visible pixels. Or have the same level of performance in interface without needing a device for your hands. In other words actually good spatial computing. This has an M2 and an R1 chip in it. Incredibly powerful visual and general processors. It also has the best internal eye tracking and an incredible short throw on its lenses.
These are techs that simply cannot be magically sold for less money. It’s physically not possible yet.
I would expect people buying these cheap devices to either figure out you get what you pay for, or not understand what the fuss is about because they’ve only had a poor experience.
xDiVolatilX
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I'll say this.
The past: The first apple iPhone was a revolution.
Present: Look at smartphones now. They are free and you throw them away and have drawers full of them.
Present: One of the first really good AR glasses is apples, cool. (Sarcasm intended.)
Not so distant future: AR glasses are flooded all over the world with many different options at different prices points. You now have a few different versions in your drawer debating about which ones are better value for the money online.
Just like every other tech, this is the same story. Don't fall for the hype.
Yes it's the best version now. So it's price reflects it. But just like electric vehicles were a premium at first, a few years later the market is flooded competing for lower prices value and now they are almost as cheap as gasoline powered vehicles.
AR glasses will be given away for free like phones are today with 2 year plans and 5G connected Internet in it. Let's not pretend boys, it's inevitable.
You want to be an early adopter and blow 4 or 5 THOUSAND dollars? Go for it! Make a crater sized hole in your bank account, and tell us how good the AR glasses are online. I'll wait 12-24 months and see how many options there are for a fraction of the price that get the job done just as good.
Deny it all you want.
The past: The first apple iPhone was a revolution.
Present: Look at smartphones now. They are free and you throw them away and have drawers full of them.
Present: One of the first really good AR glasses is apples, cool. (Sarcasm intended.)
Not so distant future: AR glasses are flooded all over the world with many different options at different prices points. You now have a few different versions in your drawer debating about which ones are better value for the money online.
Just like every other tech, this is the same story. Don't fall for the hype.
Yes it's the best version now. So it's price reflects it. But just like electric vehicles were a premium at first, a few years later the market is flooded competing for lower prices value and now they are almost as cheap as gasoline powered vehicles.
AR glasses will be given away for free like phones are today with 2 year plans and 5G connected Internet in it. Let's not pretend boys, it's inevitable.
You want to be an early adopter and blow 4 or 5 THOUSAND dollars? Go for it! Make a crater sized hole in your bank account, and tell us how good the AR glasses are online. I'll wait 12-24 months and see how many options there are for a fraction of the price that get the job done just as good.
Deny it all you want.
Mchart
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Early adopter if it was actually new game changing tech would be fine. For instance, if it was the first VR/AR thing of this quality to not need goggles. However, this much money for what is ultimately just another VR headset isn't worth it unless you're a professional who can make use of it. However, this is not a display replacement. The fatigue of wearing these goggles is not something that someone working desktop publishing, photo editing, etc can handle all day.
UnknownSouljer
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Yes, eventually. I think the part you're misunderstanding here is the leap in technology improvements that will have to exist for that to happen first.
Things like computers and cellphones are pretty straight forward devices to design and build. It's why companies such as HTC (when they started) or now Nothing Phone, can pop up with a 10-20 million dollar investment and create a flagship phone in a year. All you need is essentially buy "off the shelf" parts, slap them together in a semi-cohesive way and push out a device.
EG: you buy displays from Samsung, a camera chip from Sony, a processor from Qualcomm, and so on and so forth. Heck with Android even software optimization is relatively minimal if you only want to push stock on your phone.
AR/VR has literally none of that development stack. It also requires multiple different disciplines to operate properly.
Just as an example: eye tracking and optics design are not the wheel house of people building computers or cellphones.
Nor is multi-camera spatial tracking. Or spatial audio. Or head tracking.
More to the point, none of these technologies is well defined by anyone outside of the few bleeding edge devs working on this tech. There is no off-the-shelf AR software just as much as there isn't any off-the-shelf hardware.
There is also a big difference between Apple's devices and the VR space as well because Apple is putting all of its chips into AR and spatial computing. Meta is putting most of its chips in VR and doesn't have either the processing in place, the camera arrays, eye tracking... well anything really designed to compete with Apple to do what Apple is doing.
Can Meta catch up? Well now that they have a target (John Carmack stepped down and then quit writing a scathing letter about how Meta was aimless and wouldn't let him give directives to push Oculus forward), maybe Meta with Apple will have enough sense to have directives that will drive their products forward. They certainly have the billions to do it. I imagine that Zuckerberg has Vision Pro and is pissed at the difference between his tech and Apple's and likely will want to devote resources to compete.
But again, doing so will take spinning up of several years, lots of new tech, and whatever is produced at the end of it will be expensive. While Meta can just use a Qualcomm processor, they don't have a spatial computing processor (as an off the shelf one literally does not exist). And all the tracking stuff that Apple has put money into (even lidar for phones! Apple has been sneaking in AR into phones for a long time) for the past 5+ years can't easily be replicated. We're talking 1000's of lines of code, specialized processor design, optics, motors, etc. We are still very much in the early days of VR/AR.
Is it possible that in the future there will be companies essentially creating a product stack for this stuff for OEM's to buy? Yes. It's likely even. But that infrastructure doesn't exist today, and your time span for when it will be is wildly optimistic.
It's why a cheap Hololens doesn't exist. It's why you have products like the Meta Quest 3 for <$600, that doesn't do even half the things to the degree Apple does with its device.
If it was possible to create a product that Apple literally invested billions into over the course of 5+ years to be defeated in 12-24 months for "a fraction", then just from a tech standpoint we'd be in a very different place.
Apple does intend to release a "non-pro" device for the masses a few years after this one. So in 12-24 months there will likely be a new pro version on top of a consumer version which will likely have a least the major feature sets from this Pro level device. So I suppose in that sense, you're "technically correct" that there will be a cheaper model inside that 24 months that costs less than this Pro model. But it's so far away to know if it will be even close to 1:1 parity with this. Saying "a fraction of the cost" isn't a super meaningful statement either. 99/100th's would be a fraction of the cost, but not a significant price reduction.
However I absolutely do not think that that will be coming from anyone outside of Apple, because of the capital investment required to have this tech and again how multi-disciplined it is.
It's absolutely not that I don't think AR/VR prices will come down, we all of course think it will. It's just bleeding edge stuff like this likely won't become obtainable in the timeframe you're giving at least not from outside manufacturers. And when there is a consumer model in 24 months or whatever, there will be a newer Pro model that will shift the benchmark on what a top end device is as well. And I would imagine that it will likely maintain that $3000+ bleeding edge price tag too.
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TangledThornz
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You want TERMINATOR vision? You'll get TERMINATOR vision! Seriously though, I can see that happening as an app.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0vbTHd04gE
It’s a superlative solo movie watching experience in my opinion.
What I’m really liking is the ability to do work while having a large television positioned wherever I want it. Having an impromptu movie theater whenever I’m doing dishes, folding laundry, cooking, watering plants etc. is quite enjoyable.
The other thing I’ll mention is that there are some really interesting experiences brewing. The Disney app for example has immersive locales to watch movies - imagine watching Star Wars sitting in the cockpit of a speeder on nighttime tatooine, or a Marvel movie atop the avengers tower. These are IMO very interesting hints of what’s to come…
Hard to say. I don’t think it’s comfortable enough to replace televisions in its current state. Rather, what it gives you is the ability to simply drop a 90” state of the art OLED anywhere you want, for 30 minutes to 2 hours or so.
In terms of work and productivity, I put in a few hours today. As an auxiliary device to my MBP, it’s amazing - basically an instant large size 4K display seamlessly integrating with your laptop. I tried a few native apps - Keynote, Excel, Omniplan - and all were a bit limiting and janky with touch and camera-driven inputs to content creation. Eye tracking and finger gestures just aren’t as fast and precise as keyboard and mouse/trackpad. I’ll happy use this for reading email, viewing attachments etc., but not as a device for creating content—at least not yet. What I haven’t done yet is see how the experience might change if I paired a keyboard and trackpad with it so that I wasn’t so reliant on eye tracking.
It’s a pricey toy for certain. On top of the 1TB there is AppleCare (strongly recommended for something this expensive), the Zeiss inserts and $200 case which is definitely the largest and puffiest carrying case for an electronic device that I’ve ever seen or used. (It works well, although I’m a bit nervous about how stiff the zipper is.)
Definitely a pricey toy, but this is just par for the course. Anyone who bought that ~9” or 11” first Sony OLED TV knows what I am talking about. And, in a space that has a history of extravagant electronics (not to pick on Sony again but, uh, hello Qualia anybody?) Vision Pro’s price is not terribly outlandish given the HW it is carrying.
I’ve watched a couple of two hour movies with it now and it’s not too bad. That said, we’re not in complete disagreement. I would not get rid of any of our televisions since beyond a movie my eyes and face are too tired to continue. And, usually I’m watching movies or television with my wife and Vision Pro is useless there. What I do think this does is kill the home theater projector concept for a person living by themselves, or a household with a theater “man cave” mainly used by one person. It’s better than a projector in virtually every single way.
I played a bit more and can answer a bit more. In a word, mixed.
For example, there is a fruit ninja game. Some elements about it are mind blowing. For example, when you chop a fruit, it leaves colorful, vivid splatter… on a random surface… the carpet at my feet, dripping from the coffee table in front of me, on the wall that I am facing! And there are interesting mechanics - different hand gestures to throw shuriken at fruit and the like, all with splatter quickly filling up your living room. The visual immersion is amazing. BUT—the actual gesture accuracy is not great. Especially if you’re playing in low light, blurring of hand movements are obvious and distracting, and detection becomes less reliable.
I can completely see these issues being fully nicked in a version 3 of the product using camera sensors from a few years into the future. And, all are largely absent if you’re in a well lit area.
Basically, this is the best combination of immersion and interactivity you can get if you’re in a bright setting - the cameras have enough to work with, and the good light sealing means you can completely immerse if you want.
I’ve tried some other slower paced games and these are all excellent. Regular Apple Arcade stuff works fine and my PS5 controller performed the same as it does with an Apple TV box running the same apps.
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The overpriced storage is very much exclusively an Apple thing. The RAM for their Macs is also ridiculous. They charge 4-5 times more than everyone else.
TangledThornz
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Called it, sort of! Stupid people are unbearably predictable, ugh.
https://electrek.co/2024/02/05/idiots-driving-tesla-autopilot-apple-vision-pro/
These people really need to crash horribly without hurting anyone else to jolt them into reality.
sfsuphysics
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So what you're saying is Apple planning to sue the snow goggle industry for infringing on its design patents
Cybertruck + Apple Vison Pro = Full dystopian
https://www.zerohedge.com/technolog...stopia-vision-pro-early-adopters-spotted-wild
Red Falcon
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File all of that under the dark cyberpunk future, wow!
https://twitter.com/ahuja_priyank/status/1754467322415194327
Everyone in this thread should watch this.
Combine this with what China has been since 2018 including CBDC, social credit scoring, AI, technocrats, etc., and you will see how fast the world will become Night City.
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DukenukemX
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That's making the assumption that a lot of people are going to buy a device like the Vision Pro. It's also making the assumption that people won't destroy the device when they see you wearing it, because it records them. This is what happened with Google's Glasses in that people got attacked for wearing something that also video records. The battery life is terrible unless you carry around extra battery packs with you, which means it's impractical away from a power outlet. It's also 23 lbs on your face, which is not something I see people wearing for very long without fatigue. Google tried this 10 years ago and it failed for the same reason why the Vision Pro will fail. I can also see people running up to someone wearing these in public, and then quickly taking them off their head and running away with $3500. You don't exactly have spatial awareness while wearing one of these. Side note, JerryRigEverything took one of these apart for science.
View: https://youtu.be/LmcWMjBpYBU?si=ZGEvecSAgWWhSUT1
It's 600-650 grams, which is 1.3 - 1.4 pounds.
The Meta Quest 3 is 1.1 pounds.
The weight isn't people's issue with the device, it's that most of the weight is in the front, so most of the pressure is on the face. The only thing that helps alleviate this is to use the strap that goes at the back and at the top of the head.
Watch about 1/2, that was enough hysteria of world doom. Same story, hyperbole, from ages past on new technologies. What ifs. Yes, a knife can be a vital tool in preparing food or can be used to slice and dice people, it is how it is used that makes the difference.File all of that under the dark cyberpunk future, wow!
https://twitter.com/ahuja_priyank/status/1754467322415194327
Everyone in this thread should watch this.
Combine this with what China has been since 2018 including CBDC, social credit scoring, AI, technocrats, etc., and you will see how fast the world will become Night City.