Taller mice = pain? Have you also felt pain with popular mice?

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aLcATRAZ

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I've been away from desktops for many years and recently got back. Been using my wife's Logitech M215 (generic cheap) and gotten used to it. I remember using an MX518 back in the days and so I thought, why not upgrade to one. So I did. I found my old one.

It's a lot larger and a bit taller than the M215. I'm noticing strain between wrist and knuckles in trying to get over its taller hump. My hand wants to move back to compensate and then I can't quite reach the wheel.

I'm curious about your opinion on what makes a good mouse for you? I know young people care about speed and less about comfort. I'm just thinking about comfort right now.

Razer mice seem not as tall as Logitech.

Instead of just saying what model mouse you like, please elaborate with why. What pain did you avoid by changing to the mouse you prefer?

Thank you so much for reading and commenting. I really appreciate it.
 
I have experienced wrist pain from mousing before. Generally switching my grip to a claw and lifting my wrist off the table significantly helped. Like demonstrated here, but lift your wrist off the desk.

It can be a bit uncomfortable at first, might have to adjust your chair, but it is worth it imo.
 
I experience major pain in my wrist and forearm tendons. I got a Logitcech MX Vertical mouse and it helps a lot due to a more natural arm angle.
 
There's a lot going on in mousing, but the short answer is if it hurts, don't do it. There's a bunch of mice shapes and sizes, and you kind of gotta try a bunch until you find one that you like (and it might change as you get older). But there's a lot of other important stuff too. There's all sorts of ergo advice out there, but the basic idea is you want your body to be in a good posture; but it's very hard to make everything perfect for everything, so like do the best you can and compromise less on things that are hurting, and do the best you can.

I'd setup the chair first; you want the seat height so your feet are flat on the floor (or a solid footstool), with your knees roughly 90 degrees, and your thighs roughly parallel with the floor. With your hips against the back of the chair, you want to have about two fingers room between the front of the chair and the back of your leg. (This is adjustable on an ergo chair, but something to check on any chair you buy)

Shoulders should be neutral (not forward or back), arms at your side, elbows roughly 90 degrees, forearms roughly parallel with the floor. This probably doesn't work, and is the area of biggest compromise. Most people's desks are too high, and if you can lower it, great... if you can get the height right that's a good start. Your keyboard should be at the edge of the desk, you don't want to reach over anything to get to it (that includes wrist rests, avoid those if possible; when you're not using your keyboard or mouse, you can rest your arms are the arm rest or your lap; you want your wrists floating while typing, not leaning on anything)

Then, most people don't have a split keyboard, so your arms are going to have to come in a bit, try to make that even if you can. Put the keyboard so g and h are in front of your belly button. If you can manage it, left mousing is a shorter reach if you've got a ten-key, but if you never use the ten-key, getting a keyboard without it will reduce the reach on the right side if you mouse there. Lots of mouse options of all shapes and sizes; trackballs work for some people and not others, there's vertical mice, etc; trackpoint means no reaching, but may be hard on your fingers. Having the mouse in the right spot is like ergo science, what the shape is, is more ergo woo, IMHO. Aligning your keyboard to you may make it look off center with your monitor, but function is more important than form. :p

The last thing is your monitor. Most people's monitors are too far away, and too low. Bring your monitor towards you, not so much that it interferes with mouse and keyboard, but otherwise pretty close. Height wise, you want your eye level to be somewhere around the top third of the monitor; if your monitor has adjustable height, you can play around and see what's comfortable, if it's a fixed height, old textbooks or reams of paper make great low cost risers, but they also make real risers that aren't too expensive either. You want a height where your neck is not leaning forward or back most of the time, and you're using your eyes to look up and down. The center of your monitor should also align with your belly button.

Note, if you're using a laptop directly, you've got to pick if want the mouse or the monitor to be ok ergonomically, because the keyboard isn't going to be right (99% of laptops from this century make you reach over the touchpad or a giant wrist rest or both to get to the keyboard), and if the touchpad is at an appropriate height, the monitor won't be). If you're working on the go, whatevs, it's hopefully a little here and a little there; but if you're mainly working from one location, set it up with a dedicated keyboard and mouse and monitor if you can. Or just a keyboard and mouse, and put the laptop on a stand for the monitor (it'll be too far away, but better than nothing), or open it flat, use the built in keyboard and touchpad and have a monitor higher (again, the monitor is probably going to be too far away, but oh well)

Sorry for the giant wall of text :p
 
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. A deep dive into ergonomics is maybe inevitable as we age.

MX Vertical. Interesting.

I don't have much I can add other than perhaps this. A thing that seems to have helped is to raise the mouse sensitivity and reduce physical movements.
 
I'm currently using a Logitech G600. Before that I used a Creative Fatal1ty 2020 mouse for many years that had a similar shape. I have a strong preference for mice that have a real ring-finger button as the Mouse5 button, instead of having the Mouse5 button be some small button on the right or having Mouse4 and Mouse5 both as small buttons on the left side (as is the case with the MX518).

This is very synergistic with my preference for using a Claw-Grip. With a claw grip, my palm is basically hovering over the mouse at all times, with my wrist resting on the mouse-pad, and only the tips of my fingers touching the mouse. My Index, Middle, and Ring fingers all have a separate button to rest on, while my Thumb and Pinky fingers grip the sides of the mouse. Having a real ring-finger button helps with keeping my palm hovered over the top of my mouse without using muscles in my arm to make that happen. I'm basically always pressing down on the three mouse buttons (enough to support my palm above the mouse but not enough to actually press the buttons). This is a lot more feasible when you are spreading out the weight of your palm and fingers over 3 real buttons instead of two. The G600 is also a fairly short and stubby mouse compared to something like the MX518 and others, which makes it easier to keep my palm from touching the top of the mouse.

The real key to having no strain is not having to use any muscles in my arm. All mouse movement is done via my fingers as my wrist remains at the same location on the mousepad. It's also critical to have a good clean mousepad (I prefer hard mousepads over cloth mousepads) and good teflon mouse feet so that the mouse moves easily. This allows me to play World of Warcraft (a game where I am using and clicking the mouse a LOT) for 6-8+ hours in a row, multiple days in a row, without strain being a limiting factor. I'm glad that I have a setup where my hand can still do that despite being in my late 30's now.

Right now the only issue I'm working with is my mousepad. I used a Func1030 for many many years until it was so worn out that it was becoming a problem. The best replacement I've found in terms of surface texture and durability is the Logitech G440 Mousepad, but where the Func1030 had a rubber edge on the mousepad, the Logitech G440 has an edge that is almost as sharp as a razor-blade. If I rest my wrist too close to the edge it can cause my hand to start to fall asleep.
 
Depends on the size of your hands. I love large mice. Smaller ones cramp my head pretty quickly.
MSI Clutch GM20 is the only mouse I can use. It's pretty chonky in width and length. Feels great in the hand.
 
xDiVolatilX said:
Depends on the size of your hands. I love large mice. Smaller ones cramp my head pretty quickly.
MSI Clutch GM20 is the only mouse I can use. It's pretty chonky in width and length. Feels great in the hand.
Click to expand...

It depends on your grip style. With a claw grip, there is no downside to a smaller mouse, even with large hands. If your palm is already hovering over the mouse (instead of touching it), then it doesn't matter if there is a 1/4" gap or a full inch gap.
 
GotNoRice said:
It depends on your grip style. With a claw grip, there is no downside to a smaller mouse, even with large hands. If your palm is already hovering over the mouse (instead of touching it), then it doesn't matter if there is a 1/4" gap or a full inch gap.
Click to expand...
I use a claw grip lol that's why I like the larger size. With a claw grip if it's too small it makes your hand cramp down more with a larger mouse the clawing is less pronounced so it's easier on the hand muscles. The other issue is the weight. Heavier causes more strain but helps to stabilize aim for FPS games so I'll take the trade off for a nicely weighted mouse.
 
xDiVolatilX said:
I use a claw grip lol that's why I like the larger size. With a claw grip if it's too small it makes your hand cramp down more with a larger mouse the clawing is less pronounced so it's easier on the hand muscles. The other issue is the weight. Heavier causes more strain but helps to stabilize aim for FPS games so I'll take the trade off for a nicely weighted mouse.
Click to expand...

I guess we're talking about different things when it comes to size. I was talking about the length of the mouse; the part of the mouse closest to you (opposite end compared to where the cord comes out) that should never come into contact with your palm when using a true claw grip. If it's never coming into contact with your palm either way, then it doesn't matter if it's "too small" (not long enough), but it does matter if it's too long because then it's harder to avoid contact with your palm. I personally prefer a lighter mouse as otherwise my finger muscles are fighting against inertia created by the extra weight. The first thing I do every time I get a new Logitech G600 is open it up and remove the two metal weights that Logitech puts in there.
 
I have a terrible time getting a comfortable mouse, my grip is a hybrid between claw and fingertip. I tend to transition from claw to fingertip as I accelerate the mouse, and while I've tried to stop doing this its unconscious and I can't seem to "unlearn" it. I've settled on the Logitech GPX superlight, although I use it at a much lower DPI than most people that have a mouse like this would consider.

I upgraded the skates to a nice PTFE (I tried glass and its too slippery, I can't click properly) and it seems to be right in my sweet spot, no pain or strain even after several hours of gaming. I've been using a generic amazon mouse mat because it was cheap and huge, but I just moved to the Logitech G840XL fabric mat in magenta and its fabulous.
 
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