Subscription Growth Has Flattened claims games industry analyst

[Marees]

Microsoft mulling Starfield release on PS5 (& PS5 pro?)

According to our sources, Microsoft senior leadership have reportedly debated the various pros and cons of releasing more of their exclusive software elsewhere, and internally, not everyone is necessarily happy with the decision, but recouping the potential money “left on the table” by releasing elsewhere has arguably won out.

https://xboxera.com/2024/02/04/exclusive-microsoft-plans-starfield-launch-for-playstation-5/

While this all started with a report, and datamined confirmation, that Hi-Fi Rush was coming to PlayStation and Switch, it has now grown to the point where an apparent massive shift in Xbox’s entire gaming philosophy is on the way. Reports are that it may release its biggest game of the generation so far, Starfield, on PS5 some time in the coming year (via XboxEra). And past that, they may be doing the same with Indiana Jones and the Great Circle (via The Verge), the just-previewed actioner from MachineGames.

It also signals that perhaps Game Pass is not quite as healthy as Microsoft lets on, and to justify the enormous development costs of a game like Starfield or Indiana Jones, it turns out you do need to sell it for $70 to some amount of people outside of the Xbox/Game Pass ecosystem.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/paulta...tation-what-does-xbox-become/?sh=2401b98e6ac3

 

[Marees]

While this all started with a report, and datamined confirmation, that Hi-Fi Rush was coming to PlayStation and Switch, it has now grown to the point where an apparent massive shift in Xbox’s entire gaming philosophy is on the way. Reports are that it may release its biggest game of the generation so far, Starfield, on PS5 some time in the coming year (via XboxEra). And past that, they may be doing the same with Indiana Jones and the Great Circle (via The Verge), the just-previewed actioner from MachineGames.

It also signals that perhaps Game Pass is not quite as healthy as Microsoft lets on, and to justify the enormous development costs of a game like Starfield or Indiana Jones, it turns out you do need to sell it for $70 to some amount of people outside of the Xbox/Game Pass ecosystem.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/paulta...tation-what-does-xbox-become/?sh=2401b98e6ac3

One more:

Call of Duty May Not Be Coming to Game Pass, Leaker Claims​

An established leaker claims that the Call of Duty series may end up skipping Xbox Game Pass as part of Microsoft's major strategic shift.


As for the alleged decision to keep Call of Duty away from Xbox Game Pass, Timdog said the rumored move was part of Microsoft's reaction to realizing that its subscription service, in its current form, is not sustainable. According to recent analyst estimates, Xbox Game Pass hit 33.3 million subscribers by December 2023, six and a half years following its debut. Microsoft Gaming CEO Phil Spencer was recently quoted as saying that the subscription service is profitable, but requires $1 billion in annual content investments.

Timdog expects the company to announce its shift to multi-platform publishing at the next Xbox Games Showcase, which is said to be packed with new titles. When exactly that event is planned to take place is unclear. Prior to this report, Call of Duty was expected to reach Xbox Game Pass in 2025, according to Microsoft's previous regulatory disclosures.


https://gamerant.com/call-of-duty-game-pass-not-coming-rumor/

 

[Marees]

Timdog expects the company to announce its shift to multi-platform publishing at the next Xbox Games Showcase, which is said to be packed with new titles. When exactly that event is planned to take place is unclear.

Microsoft is reportedly considering bringing the Gears of War franchise to PlayStation.

That’s according to Giant Bomb’s Jeff Grubb, who was elaborating on recent claims that Microsoft is working on a new initiative to release more Xbox-exclusive games on other console platforms.

Over the weekend it was claimed that Bethesda’s Starfield and its upcoming Indiana Jones and the Great Circle could be released for PS5, in addition to previously rumoured Hi-Fi Rush and Sea of Thieves ports.

“The other one that I’ve heard that’s definitely under consideration—it doesn’t mean that it’s going to happen, but it’s in talks—is Gears of War,” Grubb said on Monday.

“Gears of War is being considered for this,” he reiterated.

Grubb also said that Microsoft was at one point planning to publicly explain its new initiative at the end of February, but that given the mounting speculation, there’s a chance that an official announcement could be brought forward.

“The other thing I can corroborate is a rumour that there will be something at the end of February when they’re going to explain this change – that is something that they definitely were talking about.”

https://www.videogameschronicle.com...idering-bringing-gears-of-war-to-playstation/

 

[DukenukemX]

While this all started with a report, and datamined confirmation, that Hi-Fi Rush was coming to PlayStation and Switch, it has now grown to the point where an apparent massive shift in Xbox’s entire gaming philosophy is on the way. Reports are that it may release its biggest game of the generation so far, Starfield, on PS5 some time in the coming year (via XboxEra). And past that, they may be doing the same with Indiana Jones and the Great Circle (via The Verge), the just-previewed actioner from MachineGames.

This is why both Sony and Microsoft have been putting their games on PC. It's hard to ignore such a massive market that is the PS5.

It also signals that perhaps Game Pass is not quite as healthy as Microsoft lets on, and to justify the enormous development costs of a game like Starfield or Indiana Jones, it turns out you do need to sell it for $70 to some amount of people outside of the Xbox/Game Pass ecosystem.

I think it's more than just Game Pass. It's a sign that the days of exclusives are coming to an end. It's also a sign that the gaming console industry is slowly shrinking. During the Xbox 360 and PS3 era, both consoles had nearly equal amounts of market share, with the Wii being a very close contender. Those days are long gone, with Microsoft constantly trying to find a way to push Xbox back into the market. Palworld for example is on PC and Xbox, and the amount of people playing on PC is dwarfing that of Xbox. Palworld is even on Game Pass, but who would bother when the game is only $30 on Steam?

As for the alleged decision to keep Call of Duty away from Xbox Game Pass, Timdog said the rumored move was part of Microsoft's reaction to realizing that its subscription service, in its current form, is not sustainable. According to recent analyst estimates, Xbox Game Pass hit 33.3 million subscribers by December 2023, six and a half years following its debut. Microsoft Gaming CEO Phil Spencer was recently quoted as saying that the subscription service is profitable, but requires $1 billion in annual content investments.

Just like I said, you can't make this business model work without increasing the price. The only reason it's been $10 per month is to attract customers, but without access to the latest games available it just seems like a waste of a subscription fee that you'll forget to cancel 1 year later. Microsoft always had plans to increase the price beyond $10 per month, once enough consumers are hooked in the service. Like any subscription service, the monthly fee goes up while the quality goes down.

And to think this is all due to Microsoft trying to prevent customers from reselling their games back in 2013. That and forcefully including the Kinect while costing $500 and having worse graphics than the $400 PS4. How easy it is to screw up and lose your entire customer base for over a decade.

View: https://youtu.be/kWSIFh8ICaA?si=aB4Bvh6PlzndN7vF

 

[ManofGod]

Honestly, and of course I would be, I have no subscription beyond Game Pass Ultimate and nothing else. I have no streaming subscriptions whatsoever, only a Identity theft protection plan and that is pretty much it. I have no time to sit around and watch stuff, I would rather spend that money on fun, social type stuff.

 

[GoldenTiger]

Palworld is even on Game Pass, but who would bother when the game is only $30 on Steam?

7 million users have played palworld on gamepass per the devs, with 12 million steam sales. Who would bother with paying for it on Steam when they're already a gamepass subscriber? EDIT: I'm wrong, it is 7 million Xbox sales as DukenukemX says below.

 

[UnknownSouljer]

Microsoft is reportedly considering bringing the Gears of War franchise to PlayStation.

That’s according to Giant Bomb’s Jeff Grubb, who was elaborating on recent claims that Microsoft is working on a new initiative to release more Xbox-exclusive games on other console platforms.

Over the weekend it was claimed that Bethesda’s Starfield and its upcoming Indiana Jones and the Great Circle could be released for PS5, in addition to previously rumoured Hi-Fi Rush and Sea of Thieves ports.

“The other one that I’ve heard that’s definitely under consideration—it doesn’t mean that it’s going to happen, but it’s in talks—is Gears of War,” Grubb said on Monday.

“Gears of War is being considered for this,” he reiterated.

Grubb also said that Microsoft was at one point planning to publicly explain its new initiative at the end of February, but that given the mounting speculation, there’s a chance that an official announcement could be brought forward.

“The other thing I can corroborate is a rumour that there will be something at the end of February when they’re going to explain this change – that is something that they definitely were talking about.”

https://www.videogameschronicle.com...idering-bringing-gears-of-war-to-playstation/

If Microsoft actually reverts changes that Bethesda and Activision did, that is to say that they start porting to macOS again (and goes DRM free), I will have a reason to actually purchase some of these titles.

Could Whoopi Goldberg get her wish: could Diablo 4 come to macOS? Or is that a step too far and is Playstation the beginning and end of it?

 

[DukenukemX]

7 million users have played palworld on gamepass per the devs, with 12 million steam sales. Who would bother with paying for it on Steam when they're already a gamepass subscriber?

It's not 7 million Game Pass users, just Xbox. We don't know exactly how many of that 7 million were from Gass Pass. Also the Game Pass version is a version behind compared to Steam, which is probably also fueling the Steam purchases.

 

[GoldenTiger]

It's not 7 million Game Pass users, just Xbox. We don't know exactly how many of that 7 million were from Gass Pass. Also the Game Pass version is a version behind compared to Steam, which is probably also fueling the Steam purchases.

Their official Twitter said the 7 million was gamepass . EDIT: I am wrong, it did say Xbox. My bad.

 

[DukenukemX]

This is a pretty good explanation of new vs old games and how new games, particularly AAA games like to waste your time. Mentions Starfield, a game that was on Game Pass vs New Vegas. Modern gaming loves to waste players time, and with a subscription service, this game design element will certainly make it's way into other new games more often. The existing incentive is built in stores, because for some reason a single player game has a store. Imagine if the incentive is also now a monthly subscription. You'd have another Atari ET moment.


View: https://youtu.be/-8HGsmLYqnY?si=c9U5-e2ekS6a_KWv

 

[OutOfPhase]

YOU ARE IN A MAZE OF TWISTY LITTLE PASSAGES, ALL ALIKE.

Ah, wisdom from 1976.

 

[chameleoneel]

I don't save my credit or debit cards on any storefront. I enter the details manually every time I make a purchase.

Tears of the Kingdom is $70 and always has been.

https://www.ign.com/articles/ninten...reflects-its-full-deeply-immersive-experience
View attachment 631133

Your Amazon link is for a third-party seller, one that has bad reviews at that.
View attachment 631135View attachment 631134

Scrolling down shows Amazon is selling it for $70, just like every other major retailer.
View attachment 631131

From Nintendo, themselves:

https://www.nintendo.com/us/store/products/the-legend-of-zelda-tears-of-the-kingdom-112383/
View attachment 631130

Zelda TotK is a $70 game and you can expect all Nintendo big games to be $70 from now on too. Also Nintendo almost never lowers the prices on their games. BotW is still $60 after what almost 7 years?

My link is to the game shipped by Amazon. The game is technically $70 off the digital store, but the physical copy lost value faster. You'd obviously want to buy the physical copy. I don't understand where the sellers rating looked bad. 98% positive looks pretty good to me.
View attachment 631248
View attachment 631249

Retailers have freedom to put Nintendo games on sale, as there are margins they can play with. However, they often do not, or only do small discounts. Because demand is usually strong for N games.

That said, the best way to get a new physical copy of ToTK since release, is being a new customer at QVC. Currently, you can get a $20 off $40+ coupon, for a new email subscription. When ToTK released, the new customer code was $30 off.

Or, Nintendo has a voucher deal where you can buy a double pack digital voucher for $100 and the individual price ends up being a great deal. But, you have to have an active sub to their online membership to be able to purchase vouchers. And its for digital games. Not physical.
https://www.nintendo.com/us/store/products/nintendo-switch-game-vouchers/

 

[Marees]

Microsoft targeted a 73 percent growth rate for Game Pass subscriptions for a single fiscal year that ended in June 2022, but only managed 28 percent. The company then dropped Xbox Game Pass growth as a target for Satya Nadella’s executive compensation last year, after first exceeding its ambitious Game Pass internal targets in 2020 and then failing to meet compensation targets for two years in a row

There are whispers of an Xbox handheld, with Windows Central’s Jez Corden claiming earlier this month that “Xbox literally greenlit several new hardware projects in the past couple of weeks.” Days later, Corden speculated about a potential Xbox handheld, and Spencer liked a post on X describing the handheld as “inevitable.” Microsoft has a habit of teasing future hardware: at E3 2016, it announced Project Scorpio, describing it as “the most powerful console ever” before it shipped 18 months later as the Xbox One X.

https://www.theverge.com/2024/2/12/24067370/microsoft-xbox-playstation-switch-games-future-hardware

 

[DukenukemX]

It should also be mentioned that Microsoft is thinking of porting their games to PS5. There's talk of Xbox being restructured, which is a nice way of saying that Microsoft maybe porting their games to their competitors platforms. You are looking at an end of an era, and I don't just mean for Xbox. How many more console generations is there left? The subscription model is clearly a failure if this is how Microsoft plans to go forward with Xbox.

View: https://youtu.be/aMiuAOJDUNs?si=CsjdIJTqVyVRkog3

 

[Shoganai]

It should also be mentioned that Microsoft is thinking of porting their games to PS5. There's talk of Xbox being restructured, which is a nice way of saying that Microsoft maybe porting their games to their competitors platforms. You are looking at an end of an era, and I don't just mean for Xbox. How many more console generations is there left? The subscription model is clearly a failure if this is how Microsoft plans to go forward with Xbox.

View: https://youtu.be/aMiuAOJDUNs?si=CsjdIJTqVyVRkog3

Microsoft said they still plan on making Xbox consoles, but the PlayStation 5 is outselling the Xbox 2 to 1. PlayStation's exclusives have always been way better than what's on the Xbox. Nintendo isn't really competing with either of them as they can continue making bank off their timeless IPs for the rest of eternity. I don't see an end to consoles, but I don't see where the Xbox is going to fit in with Sony and Nintendo right now.

 

[vegeta535]

So MS will exit the console market after being dominated for two generations to enter the handheld market that has been completely dominant by Nintendo for decades. Smart.

 

[DukenukemX]

Microsoft said they still plan on making Xbox consoles, but the PlayStation 5 is outselling the Xbox 2 to 1. PlayStation's exclusives have always been way better than what's on the Xbox. Nintendo isn't really competing with either of them as they can continue making bank off their timeless IPs for the rest of eternity. I don't see an end to consoles, but I don't see where the Xbox is going to fit in with Sony and Nintendo right now.

You will certainly see another Xbox, Playstation, and Nintendo console, but for how long? Another 2 or 3 generations? It's likely that future Xbox consoles may become Windows machines with a fancy UI. Microsoft still treats Windows and Xbox as two separate ecosystems, but they own both. Why is it that a Steam Deck can play all my existing PC games while an Xbox console can't? Rather than fixing the obvious, they created their Game Pass system. Why is Game Pass for PC not giving consumers access to games on Xbox and vice versa? Is Microsoft afraid that someone might play a PC and Xbox game at the same time? While Microsoft has also been working on a cloud gaming service, as if that's exactly what gamers want right now. Microsoft is avoiding the elephant in the room, and that's the need to remove Xbox as a console and just make it a Windows PC.

As for Nintendo, they will eventually need to port their games over to PC. The amount of piracy the Switch has experienced is just beyond amazing, and it's not like it was happening late into the consoles life cycle. As successful as the Switch is, it still doesn't compare to the DS in sales, which is also not including the Wii sales of the time. Valve's Steam Deck is going to make things very difficult for Nintendo for many reasons. Nvidia could make a more powerful SoC than the Deck, while also being more power efficient, but that also costs more. I doubt Nvidia would offer their SoC for a discount as well. If Nintendo goes with someone else for their SoC or even on their own, it may break backwards compatibility with Switch games. A problem the Steam Deck won't have if Valve were to switch over to AMD or Intel. As long as the hardware is x86 and supports Vulkan, then compatibility doesn't change. While Nintendo still has their timeless IPs, it's not like emulation didn't happen quickly for the Switch. Whatever the Switch's successor will be, it will certainly be emulated within a year after it's release, just due to the sheer demand of people wanting to play them on their PC. Nintendo has to consider porting their games to PC or just leave a lot of money on the table, once again. Valve's Steam Deck wasn't just created to tap into a market that the Switch dominated, nor was it just created to expand Linux as a gaming platform. Valve wants to push Nintendo to port their games over to PC, specifically on Steam.

 

[Shoganai]

You will certainly see another Xbox, Playstation, and Nintendo console, but for how long? Another 2 or 3 generations? It's likely that future Xbox consoles may become Windows machines with a fancy UI. Microsoft still treats Windows and Xbox as two separate ecosystems, but they own both. Why is it that a Steam Deck can play all my existing PC games while an Xbox console can't? Rather than fixing the obvious, they created their Game Pass system. Why is Game Pass for PC not giving consumers access to games on Xbox and vice versa? Is Microsoft afraid that someone might play a PC and Xbox game at the same time? While Microsoft has also been working on a cloud gaming service, as if that's exactly what gamers want right now. Microsoft is avoiding the elephant in the room, and that's the need to remove Xbox as a console and just make it a Windows PC.

As for Nintendo, they will eventually need to port their games over to PC. The amount of piracy the Switch has experienced is just beyond amazing, and it's not like it was happening late into the consoles life cycle. As successful as the Switch is, it still doesn't compare to the DS in sales, which is also not including the Wii sales of the time. Valve's Steam Deck is going to make things very difficult for Nintendo for many reasons. Nvidia could make a more powerful SoC than the Deck, while also being more power efficient, but that also costs more. I doubt Nvidia would offer their SoC for a discount as well. If Nintendo goes with someone else for their SoC or even on their own, it may break backwards compatibility with Switch games. A problem the Steam Deck won't have if Valve were to switch over to AMD or Intel. As long as the hardware is x86 and supports Vulkan, then compatibility doesn't change. While Nintendo still has their timeless IPs, it's not like emulation didn't happen quickly for the Switch. Whatever the Switch's successor will be, it will certainly be emulated within a year after it's release, just due to the sheer demand of people wanting to play them on their PC. Nintendo has to consider porting their games to PC or just leave a lot of money on the table, once again. Valve's Steam Deck wasn't just created to tap into a market that the Switch dominated, nor was it just created to expand Linux as a gaming platform. Valve wants to push Nintendo to port their games over to PC, specifically on Steam.

Hundreds of millions of people prefer gaming on their TV with a controller. Nintendo is never going to need to make games for PC to stay afloat. They've been doing okay for four decades now. Most of what you've said is just white noise.

 

[DukenukemX]

Hundreds of millions of people prefer gaming on their TV with a controller.

I had no idea. I wish I could hook up my PC to a TV with a controller.

View: https://youtu.be/YoXyDD6bXK4?si=Fi6VKYLWpGEoYjSL

I also wish I could hook up my Linux PC to a TV with a controller. Too bad that isn't a thing... right?

View: https://youtu.be/fCdZNt2Oywo?si=X3k7oDAnZawOEoJP

Nintendo is never going to need to make games for PC to stay afloat. They've been doing okay for four decades now.

Who said Nintendo needs to? Nintendo's shareholders want this because they're just letting money sit on the table. Why you think Sony and Microsoft ported their games to PC?

View: https://youtu.be/flTi_XzT8o0?si=Q9HR9ngnSbstkcXM

Most of what you've said is just white noise.

All of what you said isn't a thing. You could always hook up a PC to a TV. You could always hook up any controller to your PC. Any controller, including WiiMotes. Nearly a decade ago Microsoft started porting all their games to PC, and Sony a few years ago has also been porting their games to PC. It's pretty clear where the gaming market is shifting, and that's towards PC. Microsoft is restructuring Xbox due to poor Xbox sales and no Game Pass growth. Not because PS5 is dominating them, but because the PC market absorbed Xbox. As good as Sony is doing with their PS5 console, it will never reach the amount sold of the PS2. As good as the Switch is doing, it's not as good as the Nintendo DS+Wii in sales, which was about 255 million total sold. The Switch is currently 139 million.

 

[Shoganai]

I had no idea. I wish I could hook up my PC to a TV with a controller.

The average person isn't going to hook up their PC to a TV to game. Consoles are much more convenient. They're not going anywhere. They haven't for 4 decades. You're being intentionally ridiculous. People who want to hook up their PC to their TV will do that. Those that don't won't. They never will. Consoles have a specific place and purpose and convenience level that PCs don't have.

 

[DukenukemX]

The average person isn't going to hook up their PC to a TV to game. Consoles are much more convenient. They're not going anywhere. They haven't for 4 decades. You're being intentionally ridiculous. People who want to hook up their PC to their TV will do that. Those that don't won't. They never will. Consoles have a specific place and purpose and convenience level that PCs don't have.

So you're saying the average person is an idiot? What's the difference from hooking up a PC with an HDMI cable vs a console? Most controllers are plug and play, including for Linux, and have been forever. The Xbox platform has failed and you're debating me why people still want a console, because somehow an HDMI cable is just different for a console? Isn't the Steam Deck an all in one machine that you can just hook up to the TV? The Xbox is dead Jim. Microsoft will still make consoles and you won't have to worry about the HDMI port looking funny on your PC. Microsoft will make changes in how they do business with the Xbox Platform, and I feel that Microsoft won't make good decisions.

View: https://youtu.be/83uR3y1Ev5k?si=ZV_a2IXKNd2r1hGN

 

[Shoganai]

So you're saying the average person is an idiot?

No, you're saying that. Nice straw man interjection. Troll harder.

 

[Darunion]

So you're saying the average person is an idiot? What's the difference from hooking up a PC with an HDMI cable vs a console? Most controllers are plug and play, including for Linux, and have been forever. The Xbox platform has failed and you're debating me why people still want a console, because somehow an HDMI cable is just different for a console? Isn't the Steam Deck an all in one machine that you can just hook up to the TV? The Xbox is dead Jim. Microsoft will still make consoles and you won't have to worry about the HDMI port looking funny on your PC. Microsoft will make changes in how they do business with the Xbox Platform, and I feel that Microsoft won't make good decisions.

View: https://youtu.be/83uR3y1Ev5k?si=ZV_a2IXKNd2r1hGN

It is more to do with practicality or habit. Many use their pc for more than just gaming and arent going to put it on the main living room tv for when they need to pay bills or browse the web etc. A game console is use specific and would be at home there by the tv.

I think it doesnt just "make sense" to the masses. Old habits and such. Like having your toothbrush in the room where you poop. Better places for it, but most put it in the bathroom.

 

[Lakados]

It should also be mentioned that Microsoft is thinking of porting their games to PS5. There's talk of Xbox being restructured, which is a nice way of saying that Microsoft maybe porting their games to their competitors platforms. You are looking at an end of an era, and I don't just mean for Xbox. How many more console generations is there left? The subscription model is clearly a failure if this is how Microsoft plans to go forward with Xbox.

View: https://youtu.be/aMiuAOJDUNs?si=CsjdIJTqVyVRkog3

I mean more platforms means more money and they all have far more similarities than differences and the development tools all get programmed at a high abstraction layer so porting between architectures is easy.
The hard part is dialing down graphics so things keep consistent on frame rates, the current console generation is not exactly underpowered by any stretch but 4K monsters they are not.

Xbox is not large enough of a platform to support the A/B purchase.

 

[DukenukemX]

No, you're saying that. Nice straw man interjection. Troll harder.

Then the average person who most certainly uses a computer, shouldn't have a problem using a computer on a TV. What do you think a smart TV is?

It is more to do with practicality or habit. Many use their pc for more than just gaming and arent going to put it on the main living room tv for when they need to pay bills or browse the web etc. A game console is use specific and would be at home there by the tv.

It being habitual makes more sense than box with fire is hard to make work.

I think it doesnt just "make sense" to the masses. Old habits and such. Like having your toothbrush in the room where you poop. Better places for it, but most put it in the bathroom.

I'm trying to make sense of the decline of Xbox, not sense make PC in a living room. Does that make sense?

 

[Shoganai]

Then the average person who most certainly uses a computer, shouldn't have a problem using a computer on a TV. What do you think a smart TV is?

It's inconvenient to do that, which is why consoles exist. I guarantee you the number of people that play consoles on their TV astronomically outnumbers the people hooking up their PC to their TV ... so much so that it's not even worth discussing. You're being intentionally vexatious.

 

[Darunion]

I'm trying to make sense of the decline of Xbox, not sense make PC in a living room. Does that make sense?

Ah, i think because IMO xbox competes on two fronts. One side is playstation and nintendo both offering a great selection of exclusives, where on the other side is pc which had many of the same exclusives as xbox. So i feel on one side it cant compete and on the other it cant differentiate.

Try thinking of it as you are a sales person, and you make no commission and dont game yourself. Now talk to an ignorant customer when they ask you basically to pros/cons list all the consoles and pc. I feel like you find xbox doesnt have anything to stand out from any of its competition. I think the only thing is the xbox gaming sub where you can play on both console and pc the same games, which again is nice but also waters down the unique aspect of xbox.

Just my morning low caffeine perspective.

 

[Marees]

Ah, i think because IMO xbox competes on two fronts. One side is playstation and nintendo both offering a great selection of exclusives, where on the other side is pc which had many of the same exclusives as xbox. So i feel on one side it cant compete and on the other it cant differentiate.

Try thinking of it as you are a sales person, and you make no commission and dont game yourself. Now talk to an ignorant customer when they ask you basically to pros/cons list all the consoles and pc. I feel like you find xbox doesnt have anything to stand out from any of its competition. I think the only thing is the xbox gaming sub where you can play on both console and pc the same games, which again is nice but also waters down the unique aspect of xbox.

Just my morning low caffeine perspective.

It depends on if you look at it as Xbox or Microsoft

Phil Spencer loses but Satya Nadella wins

Handhelds/mobile = cloud gaming
Windows/xbox/desktop = recurring game pass subscription
Azure/Servers = Sony's online/cloud network business

 

[DukenukemX]

Ah, i think because IMO xbox competes on two fronts. One side is playstation and nintendo both offering a great selection of exclusives, where on the other side is pc which had many of the same exclusives as xbox. So i feel on one side it cant compete and on the other it cant differentiate.

I think Microsoft knew they lost the console generation back with Xbox One and had no choice but to port their games to PC, because game development is expensive and the PC outsells games compared to Xbox. At some point Microsoft realized they needed a new strategy and decided to offer Xbox as a service that works on multiple platforms and not just a game console. That's where Game Pass comes into play, which isn't doing that well either. So now Microsoft is considering porting their exclusives to Playstation and Nintendo as well, because again game development is expensive and the strategy has moved to timed exclusives. It just so happens that Microsofts exclusives like Starfield aren't that good. Hi-Fi Rush was considered a good game, but is it God of War and Demon Souls level of good? Probably not.

Try thinking of it as you are a sales person, and you make no commission and dont game yourself. Now talk to an ignorant customer when they ask you basically to pros/cons list all the consoles and pc. I feel like you find xbox doesnt have anything to stand out from any of its competition. I think the only thing is the xbox gaming sub where you can play on both console and pc the same games, which again is nice but also waters down the unique aspect of xbox.

It doesn't, and the numbers back me up. The reality is that the PC gaming market has grown faster than the console market. Xbox is a dead platform that isn't worth buying over a PC. Consoles only have value because of exclusives, and nothing more. The Nintendo Switch is an extremely outdated console for 2024, but because of Nintendo's exclusives, people buy the console. The console market overall is in decline. The Xbox is a dying console, and it isn't getting better. The Playstation consoles are still doing well, but again not as good as the PS2. Nintendo's Switch is doing well, but had to cannibalize their mobile console gaming market. The Switch can't even match the sales of the Nintendo DS, let alone the DS+Wii because the Switch is made to be a machine that is both portable and a home console. It took 15 people to make Mario 64 and Nintendo was perfectly fine to make it an exclusive, but Tears of the Kingdom took over 300 people and while Nintendo did bank, it could be much higher if ported to other platforms. It just doesn't pay to make games platform exclusive, which is a strategy that Microsoft is trying to do but can't due to sunk cost.

Just to give you an idea, in the UK Starfield sold 2/3rd of it's games on PC, compared to Xbox. This has been a pretty consistent thing since the release of the Xbox One.
https://twitter.com/chris_dring/status/1715324059112661432

 

[MavericK]

I mean, here's the thing. I only have so much money that I'm willing to spend monthly on recurring costs. Utilities and internet/phone are already a large chunk of that, so I'm not putting money into 10+ subscriptions for various crap. I think right now I only do Mullvad and Spotify. Used to do Netflix, but they cracked down on multi-household access, so fuck 'em - cancelled. I did Game Pass when they had the $1 deals, but frankly I don't have enough time to play the games I have on my backlog or buy at steep discounts, let alone a bunch of subscription stuff that leaves the service eventually.

These companies need to realize that they are not just competing with other streaming services, they are competing with every other subscription service out there.

 

[1_rick]

The Switch can't even match the sales of the Nintendo DS, let alone the DS+Wii because the Switch is made to be a machine that is both portable and a home console.

Oh my god.

The original DS sold 154 million units worldwide in 12 years (2004-2016). If you add the DS Lite, you get another 94 million in 8 years. The Switch has sold 140 million in 6 years, making it a significantly better seller than the original DS. The Wii had 102 million in 13 years, meaning the Switch was almost twice as popular as the Wii. It's not meaningful to add the DS and Wii numbers to compare them to the Switch, because they were two separate consoles, with a mostly distinct set of games.

 

[Shoganai]

Oh my god.

The original DS sold 154 million units worldwide in 12 years (2004-2016). If you add the DS Lite, you get another 94 million in 8 years. The Switch has sold 140 million in 6 years, making it a significantly better seller than the original DS. The Wii had 102 million in 13 years, meaning the Switch was almost twice as popular as the Wii. It's not meaningful to add the DS and Wii numbers to compare them to the Switch, because they were two separate consoles, with a mostly distinct set of games.

Don't encourage him. He'll just troll more.

 

[DukenukemX]

Oh my god.

The original DS sold 154 million units worldwide in 12 years (2004-2016). If you add the DS Lite, you get another 94 million in 8 years. The Switch has sold 140 million in 6 years, making it a significantly better seller than the original DS. The Wii had 102 million in 13 years, meaning the Switch was almost twice as popular as the Wii. It's not meaningful to add the DS and Wii numbers to compare them to the Switch, because they were two separate consoles, with a mostly distinct set of games.

The Switch is meant to take the place of both a mobile and home console for Nintendo, and it was a brilliant move. This was because the previous consoles the WiiU and 3DS were not doing well. Nintendo had to drop the price of the 3DS almost immediately from $250 to $170 because sales were low. The WiiU was well... the WiiU. So either Nintendo had to put more effort into mobile games or make a Nintendo Switch with AAA quality effort into games that can be played portable or at home. It was a smart move, but as of right now Nintendo isn't making as much money as it did when it had two consoles. On it's own the Switch is doing very well, but from Nintendo's perspective they wish it did better.

Don't encourage him. He'll just troll more.

Said the troll. But hey Microsoft is already adding Activision/Blizzard games to Game Pass. This is a much smarter move to promote Game Pass than putting Starfield. A lot of people play World of Warcraft and if they merge the $15 fee into Game Pass's $10 fee then more people can get a taste of Game Pass and see if they like the service. Of course a bunch of WoW players might just get a 33% discount in playing a game they already pay $15 for, while getting access to free games.
https://www.wowhead.com/news/diablo...ivision-blizzard-games-to-come-337740?webhook

"I'm excited to announce, with the coming together that we had with Activision Blizzard King, that Activision and Blizzard games are coming to Game Pass, starting with Diablo 4 on March 28th, which I'm super excited to share today. It's all part of our commitment to make Xbox, the Xbox experience, and the games that we build as widely available as possible."

 

[Shoganai]

Said the troll.

That's ... not a defense. You openly admit to being a troll in here. You get off on it. Good try though, I guess.

But hey Microsoft is already adding Activision/Blizzard games to Game Pass. This is a much smarter move to promote Game Pass than putting Starfield. A lot of people play World of Warcraft and if they merge the $15 fee into Game Pass's $10 fee then more people can get a taste of Game Pass and see if they like the service. Of course a bunch of WoW players might just get a 33% discount in playing a game they already pay $15 for, while getting access to free games.

https://www.wowhead.com/news/diablo...ivision-blizzard-games-to-come-337740?webhook

39330-diablo-4-coming-to-pc-game-pass-march-28-more-activision-blizzard-games-to-come.jpg

"I'm excited to announce, with the coming together that we had with Activision Blizzard King, that Activision and Blizzard games are coming to Game Pass, starting with Diablo 4 on March 28th, which I'm super excited to share today. It's all part of our commitment to make Xbox, the Xbox experience, and the games that we build as widely available as possible."

WoW is still a massive goldmine after all these years, so I don't think they're going to ever bundle it together with Game Pass. But anything is possible.

 

[DukenukemX]

That's ... not a defense. You openly admit to being a troll in here. You get off on it. Good try though, I guess.

I'm not gonna humor your raging insanity. Debate me on tech, not your ad hominem. It's fine if you don't like my opinion, but resorting to ad hominem is childish.

WoW is still a massive goldmine after all these years, so I don't think they're going to ever bundle it together with Game Pass. But anything is possible.

On one hand you have a lot of new people who get to use Game Pass but on the other hand, Blizzards subscription revenue drops by 1/3rd. I still think it's a smart move.

 

[Shoganai]

I'm not gonna humor your raging insanity. Debate me on tech, not your ad hominem. It's fine if you don't like my opinion, but resorting to ad hominem is childish.

Your attempts to deflect attention away from your trolling behavior at every opportunity are transparent and only serve to highlight your lack of substance in this discussion and most discussions that you participate in here. You've openly admitted to intentionally trolling. You say things that you very well know are absolutely ridiculous to get a reaction out of others. Although sometimes you do engage in somewhat meaningful discussions, most of the time it's just exhausting nonsense. I'm willing to engage with you if you're willing to talk like a normal human being.

 

[DukenukemX]

You've openly admitted to intentionally trolling. You say things that you very well know are absolutely ridiculous to get a reaction out of others.

Funny how that works because what usually happens when a troll like you gets upset is that the company of current dicussion then releases information that backs me up. Apple fans got upset that I said the iPhone 15 overheats, then Apple agrees and releases a patch to fix the issue. Apple fans think that RCS on iPhone is ridiculous, and then Apple brings RCS to the iPhone. Huge threads where people were upset with me, to the point of blocking me and using ad hominem like it was going out of style, but they all look very stupid now. It's a recurring theme because the reality is that you're fanboys, and that includes you too Shoganai. So lets continue with that theme shall we. "Sony plunged $10 billion after its PS5 sales cut. But a bigger issue is its near decade low games margin." So we already see Sony having issues with the PS5 and game sales. So what does Sony do about this? "Sony Is Going to Get 'Aggressive' With First-Party PC Releases" I don't know what to tell you, it just works out that way. Maybe $70 games aren't working out for Sony? Maybe having $500 hardware that's only good for playing games is no longer working for Sony? Cloud gaming certainly isn't working for Sony. Whatever the case is, you're looking at the end of the console era. You have another 2-3 console generations... tops. Mock me again, and I swear it'll invoke Nintendo to go multiplatform as well. Fate spins along as it should -- Withers

"Players should expect to see more PC ports of first-party PlayStation titles, as Sony is promising an “aggressive” multiplatform strategy going forward. In recent years, Sony has been branching some of its biggest games out from the confines of its flagship console, with titles like Horizon: Zero Dawn and 2018’s God of War reaching PC after their PlayStation-exclusive debuts. 2023 was especially big for PlayStation PC ports, as Returnal, The Last of Us Part 1, and Ratchet and Clank: Rift Apart all found their way onto PC platforms like Steam."

 

[Shoganai]

Funny how that works because what usually happens when a troll like you gets upset is that the company of current dicussion then releases information that backs me up. Apple fans got upset that I said the iPhone 15 overheats, then Apple agrees and releases a patch to fix the issue. Apple fans think that RCS on iPhone is ridiculous, and then Apple brings RCS to the iPhone. Huge threads where people were upset with me, to the point of blocking me and using ad hominem like it was going out of style, but they all look very stupid now. It's a recurring theme because the reality is that you're fanboys, and that includes you too Shoganai. So lets continue with that theme shall we. "Sony plunged $10 billion after its PS5 sales cut. But a bigger issue is its near decade low games margin." So we already see Sony having issues with the PS5 and game sales. So what does Sony do about this? "Sony Is Going to Get 'Aggressive' With First-Party PC Releases" I don't know what to tell you, it just works out that way. Maybe $70 games aren't working out for Sony? Maybe having $500 hardware that's only good for playing games is no longer working for Sony? Cloud gaming certainly isn't working for Sony. Whatever the case is, you're looking at the end of the console era. You have another 2-3 console generations... tops. Mock me again, and I swear it'll invoke Nintendo to go multiplatform as well. Fate spins along as it should -- Withers

"Players should expect to see more PC ports of first-party PlayStation titles, as Sony is promising an “aggressive” multiplatform strategy going forward. In recent years, Sony has been branching some of its biggest games out from the confines of its flagship console, with titles like Horizon: Zero Dawn and 2018’s God of War reaching PC after their PlayStation-exclusive debuts. 2023 was especially big for PlayStation PC ports, as Returnal, The Last of Us Part 1, and Ratchet and Clank: Rift Apart all found their way onto PC platforms like Steam."

This entire response is a troll. All you do is respond to people with straw man arguments and then debate things that nobody ever said. To be honest, it's bizarre. If people are constantly blocking you, that says more about you than them. You also never take any accountability for anything for any reason whatsoever.

There are only two possibilities here. Either you're a troll, or you're being genuine and your lack of self-awareness is so profound that psychologists the world over should be using you as a case study.

 

[Flogger23m]

Whatever the case is, you're looking at the end of the console era. You have another 2-3 console generations... tops.

If streaming is doable during that time (15-20 years from now), it will be the end of gaming on localized hardware. PC might last longer as a niche premium option but I assume if console makers get out of the business in favor of streaming, they probably won't bother with PC versions either.

 

[DukenukemX]

There are only two possibilities here. Either you're a troll, or you're being genuine and your lack of self-awareness is so profound that psychologists the world over should be using you as a case study.

You're the one who thinks console gaming strength is hooking it up to a TV. The numbers back me up, not you. Don't forget that consoles already have a subscription fee for online play, so another subscription fee would be less than a good deal. PC gamers have so many sources to buy games at lower prices that a monthly fee is also not a good deal. The problem is that the cost of making a good AAA game is going to need to be on multiple platforms, and that's the problem you're seeing now.

If streaming is doable during that time (15-20 years from now), it will be the end of gaming on localized hardware. PC might last longer as a niche premium option but I assume if console makers get out of the business in favor of streaming, they probably won't bother with PC versions either.

Asmongold also thinks streaming will be doable, but the reality is that it'll never be a thing due to latency. You can't fix cloud gaming, no matter how much years you give it. It's a law of physics problem, not a bandwidth or better hardware problem. It's all about location, and that's really hard and expensive to do properly. Also PC isn't premium, no matter how much people here with RTX 4090's and water cooled PC's would like to believe. Steam's hardware survey is enough proof to show that people don't generally buy expensive hardware. The two most popular games right now Palworld and Helldivers 2, have a requirement of a GTX 1050 Ti. They aren't particularly expensive games either, with Palworld costing $30 and Helldivers 2 costing $40. While there are some demanding AAA games, they aren't particularly good games. Streaming is dead, and subscription based models are on life support. Subscription flattening might be more about everyone having too many subscriptions already.