ST45SF-G Fan Replacement

C

crABtoad

Limp Gawd
Joined
May 15, 2012
Messages
508
Wasn't sure if this should go in the PSU sub-forum, but I figured the right kind of builders would see it here.

Trying to wrap my head around picking a good replacement, I know that the Noiseblocker PC-P is recommended.

The SP120 (Quiet) moves more air but has lower pressure.

The SP120 (Performance) seems overspec for CFM, but almost has enough pressure to match the stock fan. It's possible that it would spin so slowly that the sound might be lower, don't know.

After looking at all the specs here, the Noiseblocker actually seems underspec for the job. It moves almost the same amount of air, and has 2/3rds the pressure.

Based on the research I've done, matching CFM and Static Air Pressure are the two most important things for swapping this PSU fan.

AD0812HB-D70:
Airflow 29.9 CFM
Static Pressure 3.2766 mm/H2O
Sound Level 33.4 dB/A
Speed 3200 RPM
Power Draw 12V 0.18A 2.16W

SP120 Quiet Edition:
Airflow 37.85 CFM
Static Pressure 1.29 mm/H2O
Sound Level 23 dB/A
Speed 1450
Power Draw 12V 0.08A 0.96W

SP120 High Performance Edition:
Airflow 62.74 CFM
Static Pressure 3.1 mm/H2O
Sound Level 35 dB/A
Speed 2350
Power Draw 12V 0.18 2.16W

Noiseblocker NB-BlackSilentPro PC-P:
Airflow 30.6 CFM (max)
Static Pressure 1.89 mm/H2O
Sound Level 25.8 dB/A
Speed 2500 RPM (max)
Power Draw 12V 0.13A 1.56W

Anyone have any insight here? Basically just trying to find a high performance, quiet fan that meets the thermal requirements for the PSU.

E: I have no idea how to format those numbers better. :confused:
 
Last edited:
I believe the stock fan is a 80x15mm fan. The replacement fans you mentioned are 120mm, no?
 
esseun said:
I believe the stock fan is a 80x15mm fan. The replacement fans you mentioned are 120mm, no?
Click to expand...

Yeah I would be mounting the larger fans on the outside of the PSU (outboard).

Noiseblocker is 80x80x15, rest are 120x120x25.

E: I could've sworn that I made a note of that in my OP, but apparently I didn't.
 
crABtoad said:
After looking at all the specs here, the Noiseblocker actually seems underspec for the job. It moves almost the same amount of air, and has 2/3rds the pressure.
Click to expand...

The goal is to make the PSU quieter at idle, but provide enough airflow at load. The Noiseblocker PC-P achieves this by having a wider range of RPM over the same range of voltage as the stock fan.

I've been running mine since January, at load (folding@home) 24/7 for nine months now. The longer it's running, the more confidence I have that this was the right choice of fan. Others have done the mod as well and I've seen no reports of the PSU malfunctioning.

Nivaku said:
I plan on buying this PSU but using the Noiseblocker fan because I was told it was much quieter then the stock fan. Pretty much going to buy http://www.amazon.com/Noiseblocker-...ckSilentPro+ITR-PC-P+80x15mm&tag=hardfocom-20 and http://www.moddiy.com/products/3%2d...-Mini-2%2dPin-GPU-Fan-Connector-(Female).html

Should make modding virtually painless
Click to expand...

Indeed. I soldered the wires originally, but bought two of those Moddiy adapter cables for future rigs. Can confirm the modding is a three minute job. However, you will void your warranty, so run the PSU unmodded a few weeks first to avoid disappointment if there is a problem.
 
As an Amazon Associate, HardForum may earn from qualifying purchases.
WiSK said:
The goal is to make the PSU quieter at idle, but provide enough airflow at load. The Noiseblocker PC-P achieves this by having a wider range of RPM over the same range of voltage as the stock fan.

I've been running mine since January, at load (folding@home) 24/7 for nine months now. The longer it's running, the more confidence I have that this was the right choice of fan. Others have done the mod as well and I've seen no reports of the PSU malfunctioning
Click to expand...

Cool, thanks WiSK. I wasn't really that worried about the Noiseblocker working because I've heard numerous reports from people running this PSU with that fan for 1+ years at this point.

Mostly I was trying to get my head around the different specs for fans, and trying to find out if the SP120 Quiet Edition would be an even better (larger) substitute. Would you recommend it even if it wasn't a ninja-mod?

Thanks for the reply!

E: In regard to that moddiy adapter...wouldn't you want the 4 pin to 2 pin for PWM? PSU fans do have variable RPM on them.
 
crABtoad said:
E: In regard to that moddiy adapter...wouldn't you want the 4 pin to 2 pin for PWM? PSU fans do have variable RPM on them.
Click to expand...

The stock fan has only two wires and the PSU has a socket for only 2-pins. So it's voltage controlled and there would be nowhere to connect the fan sense wire, nor the PWM wire.

Having said that, you could connect the sense wire yourself and plug it into a motherboard header so that you can see exactly what speed the PSU fan is running. I might try that myself :)
 
Weird, I always assumed that the 4th pin was the one that allowed for voltage regulation, but it's sense data huh?

The more you know...thanks again WiSK.
 
crABtoad said:
Weird, I always assumed that the 4th pin was the one that allowed for voltage regulation, but it's sense data huh?

The more you know...thanks again WiSK.
Click to expand...

3 pin:
- GND
- VCC
- tacho signal (2 pulses per turn from fan)

4 pin:
- GND
- VCC
- tacho signal (2 pulses per turn from fan)
- pwm (0-100% duty cycle for fan)
 
JoanTheSpark said:
3 pin:
- GND
- VCC
- tacho signal (2 pulses per turn from fan)

4 pin:
- GND
- VCC
- tacho signal (2 pulses per turn from fan)
- pwm (0-100% duty cycle for fan)
Click to expand...

2 pin:
- GND
- VCC

So instead of combining the information from the sense pin, and the control signal from the PWM pin, 2-pin fans just change the voltage on the VCC pin?
 
Yep.

And to paraphrase what Joan says: black=ground, red=12V, green=rpm, blue=PWM.

A fan will run slower if it receives lower voltage, or by the PWM signal, if it is enabled to do so.
 
yes... 2 pin fans are the 'dumbest', they just run (according to VCC) and that's it. No checks, no further control.
 
WiSK said:
Yep.

And to paraphrase what Joan says: black=ground, red=12V, green=rpm, blue=PWM.

A fan will run slower if it receives lower voltage, or by the PWM signal, if it is enabled to do so.
Click to expand...

The part about the fan spinning slower/faster according to VCC volts seems obvious in hindsight. I thought there was some magic to PWM that allowed it, but power is power.

I know that larger fans can spin slower to move the same air, and that the RPM is what generates noise on a fan.

I'm still confused about the static air pressure vs CFM on fans, and what makes a fan a worthy substitute/replacement for doing the same thermal "work". I can figure that out some other day in the future though.

Thanks for the background info you two.
 
WiSK said:
However, you will void your warranty, so run the PSU unmodded a few weeks first to avoid disappointment if there is a problem.
Click to expand...

This is important! I've known people to mod hardware without even powering it on, and had it not work. Was it DOA? Did the mod kill it? They don't know. Besides voiding the warranty, without knowing a learning opportunity was lost.
 
Zap said:
This is important! I've known people to mod hardware without even powering it on, and had it not work. Was it DOA? Did the mod kill it? They don't know. Besides voiding the warranty, without knowing a learning opportunity was lost.
Click to expand...

Oh for sure. Any time I go about tampering with something I make sure to verify it has a clean bill of health first.

Thanks for the word of caution though!
 
crABtoad said:
I'm still confused about the static air pressure vs CFM on fans, and what makes a fan a worthy substitute/replacement for doing the same thermal "work". I can figure that out some other day in the future though.
Click to expand...

Firstly you should know that manufacturers measure those specs at the extreme. Static pressure is measured by putting something in front of the fan, blocking the airflow, and seeing how far the fan can push it. Airflow is measured with something very lightweight in the way, e.g. those rotating scoops that measure wind speed.

However, in your PC, the fan won't have 0% resistance, nor 100% resistance. It will be somewhere in between. Case fans will have closer to 0% resistance (just filters and mesh and internal pressure to get past), and radiator fans will have higher resistance because the radiator fins introduce turbulence, which blocks the smooth flow of air.

So it would be more useful if fan manufacturers would show the curve of pressure v. airflow.

You can read more about it here:
http://martinsliquidlab.org/2013/02...w-specs-are-poor-measures-of-fan-performance/
 
That's a really great link, and now I trust listed fan specs even less than I did originally. :p

It surprises me a bit that the pressure goes down as CFM goes up. I can tell there's a lot I don't understand about air flow after everything I've read in the last couple days.

What would you use for a high static pressure intake on this PSU? The last fan roundup I read seemed to indicate that those Corsair SP120 Quiet fans were excellent, and I know those Gentle Typhoons are well regarded.
 
all it takes is one major review site to test their case fans and heatsink fans in that manner and you might see manufacturers adopt it -- look at how techreport changed the vid card landscape w/ their microstuttering metric
 
I wasn't aware of techreport being instrumental in that, that's cool to know.

It's all about educating people, and if enough of them complain/give feedback, marketing people might get engineering to put some new graphs on the box.

This airflow stuff is voodoo as far as I'm concerned. :D
 
crABtoad said:
What would you use for a high static pressure intake on this PSU? The last fan roundup I read seemed to indicate that those Corsair SP120 Quiet fans were excellent, and I know those Gentle Typhoons are well regarded.
Click to expand...

When reading fan reviews make sure to note how the fans were tested. Was it in free air, or mounted on a case, or mounted on a radiator or heatsink? Those situations are quite different, and it could be that some popular case fans become disappointing when you give them some hard work to do.

Gentle Typhoons are the go-to fan for radiators because of the build quality. The design of the propeller is not dissimilar to a hundred other fans, but when you hold them in your hands it doesn't feel like a regular fan. What sets them apart is the high torque motor; the internal coil damper structure to reduce vibration; and mostly the metal propeller hub which acts as a flywheel, increasing momentum and hence air pressure. In comparison, most consumer fans have lightweight plastic hubs, cheaper motors running at higher current - more speed but less torque. Many also have flimsy construction around the rotor.

One model of plastic fan that does stand out is the Noiseblocker eLoop, because the propeller blades are joined, increasing the weight -> momentum -> pressure. I love these for the looks, but the ring around the blades somehow makes them noisy when pulling air.

If you really want to try a 120mm fan on the ST45SF-G, remember that the box is only 125x100mm, so you'll have some overlap.
 
Yeah, the more I dig into this case fan replacement thing and really try to wrap my head around their real-world performance, the more I realize how complicated/case-specific it is.

This is one of the few times in my life that I wish I had a test bench and some gear to read the internal temperature of a PSU.

I'll probably just get a Noiseblocker PC-P and do a ninja-mod. I'm really interested in trying a Gentle Typhoon as well.
 
I just got my st45sf-G (for my Ncase M1 build) and it is even louder than I expected. I am coming from a 160W fanless Pico psu so in comparison this thing sounds like I am at a Server Farm, lol.

Does the noiseblocker fan mod really make that much of a difference? I am just not sure if any 80mmx15mm fan will really be "quiet".

I am trying to decide whether to order the Noiseblocker fan and connectors to do this mod (after I run the PSU for a while and I am confident that it will probably last a while) or to just scrap it and just cram an ATX PSU with a 120mm fan into my M1.
 
Yes, at max load it's just a bit lower rpms as the stock fan, which is necessary for adequate cooling.

For load conditions the best way to reduce noise is to remove the grill.
 
WiSK said:
This is the V1.0 PSU but perhaps this will help you. Camera mic is right over the fan, so you hear the air noise as if your ear is right there.

Stock fan http://youtu.be/gwl-A0Cx6t8

NB PC-P http://youtu.be/9P02jVmMBuc
Click to expand...

Thanks, i'll go for it. Ordered the recommended parts.

FrozenCPU Noiseblocker NB-BlackSilentPro PC-P 80mm x 15mm $18.99 + 6.50 shipping(thru Amazon) = $25.49

modDIY Sleeved adapter cable $3.49 + $9.95 shipping = $13.44 US

Total for PSU mod = $38.93

Thanks for all the effort everyone has put in on this.
 
Has anyone tried running this powersupply without the fan connected? I was thinking of removing the internal fan and mounting a quieter 80mm fan on the outside. It is not a PWM fan so I would be powering it off of the motherboard. Just wondering if it has some failsafe mode where it won't run without the health status from the fan...
 
So I tried it and the PSU runs fine without the fan connected, in case anyone else is interested.

Also I did the NoiseBlocker fan swap. Is anyone else's NB fan kind of loud? It's an improvement from the old fan for sure, but mine makes a low frequency ticking noise that is pretty annoying. At first I thought the fan blades were hitting a wire in the PSU, so I reverse the fan direction so that's not possible. Its still making the same noise so its not that. Starting to think I got a bad one.

Anyone else's NB fan making a similar noise?
 
IncubusBob said:
Also I did the NoiseBlocker fan swap. Is anyone else's NB fan kind of loud? It's an improvement from the old fan for sure, but mine makes a low frequency ticking noise that is pretty annoying. At first I thought the fan blades were hitting a wire in the PSU, so I reverse the fan direction so that's not possible. Its still making the same noise so its not that. Starting to think I got a bad one.

Anyone else's NB fan making a similar noise?
Click to expand...

Mine are both silent, but I've seen this issue reported a couple of times by others.

The fan itself is PWM enabled, but inside the PSU the blue PWM wire is unconnected. I googled "PWM ticking" and see lots of issues where people are connecting PWM fans to non-PWM fan controllers. It might be the case that there is some electrical induction on the unconnected wire that the fan circuitry is interpreting as a PWM pulse.

According to the PWM spec http://www.formfactors.org/developer/specs/4_Wire_PWM_Spec.pdf the signal must be non-inverted 5V pulse. So I wonder if soldering the blue wire to a 5V pin inside the PSU will eliminate the ticking.

Unfortunately, even if that does help, it's not a very simple or elegant solution.
 
IncubusBob said:
So I tried it and the PSU runs fine without the fan connected, in case anyone else is interested.

Also I did the NoiseBlocker fan swap. Is anyone else's NB fan kind of loud? It's an improvement from the old fan for sure, but mine makes a low frequency ticking noise that is pretty annoying. At first I thought the fan blades were hitting a wire in the PSU, so I reverse the fan direction so that's not possible. Its still making the same noise so its not that. Starting to think I got a bad one.

Anyone else's NB fan making a similar noise?
Click to expand...

My fan makes the EXACT same ticking sound. If it did not make this sound I would be more than happy with the noise level.

I actually pulled the fan out and ran it on its own outside of the enclosure and it still made it, so it is definitely not a wire. I've noticed that at higher and lower speeds it doesn't seem to make much of a difference, the ticking is still there.
 
Smitty2k1 said:
My fan makes the EXACT same ticking sound. If it did not make this sound I would be more than happy with the noise level.

I actually pulled the fan out and ran it on its own outside of the enclosure and it still made it, so it is definitely not a wire. I've noticed that at higher and lower speeds it doesn't seem to make much of a difference, the ticking is still there.
Click to expand...

That sucks, but I am glad to know I am not alone. I ended up removing the internal fan and mounting a quiet 80mm fan on the outside (25mm thick so it wouldn't fit inside). It is dead silent now at < 800rpm. My ears are finally happy :D

P1040587.jpg
 
Smitty2k1 said:
My fan makes the EXACT same ticking sound. If it did not make this sound I would be more than happy with the noise level.

I actually pulled the fan out and ran it on its own outside of the enclosure and it still made it, so it is definitely not a wire. I've noticed that at higher and lower speeds it doesn't seem to make much of a difference, the ticking is still there.
Click to expand...

Mine as well and I'm not going to use it. Has anyone tried using a Noctua 92/14mm fan mounted on the outside of the PSU? The only main issue is that the startup voltage on the PSU fan header is not enough for the Noctua. It will start rotating only if helped by hand - when the PSU is idle, that is. Is the fan on the ST45SF-G load or temp controlled? I was just wondering if the fan would start spinning early enough when the load rises. Eventually it will of course, but would the PSU temps go too high before that?

EDIT: It's temp controlled. Used a hair dryer to blow hot air to an open PSU for ~10s and the fan started spinning. So I'll probably go ahead with the installation. :p
 
Last edited:
jusutus said:
Mine as well and I'm not going to use it. Has anyone tried using a Noctua 92/14mm fan mounted on the outside of the PSU? The only main issue is that the startup voltage on the PSU fan header is not enough for the Noctua. It will start rotating only if helped by hand - when the PSU is idle, that is. Is the fan on the ST45SF-G load or temp controlled? I was just wondering if the fan would start spinning early enough when the load rises. Eventually it will of course, but would the PSU temps go too high before that?
Click to expand...

If you are going to mount externally, just get an 80mm x 25mm fan. Should be quiet enough
 
I already have a spare 92/14mm Noctua. And correct me if I'm wrong but I should think that a 92mm fan is quieter than an 80mm. A 25mm thick fan would also be very close to my CPU waterblock/fittings
 
jusutus said:
Mine as well and I'm not going to use it. Has anyone tried using a Noctua 92/14mm fan mounted on the outside of the PSU? The only main issue is that the startup voltage on the PSU fan header is not enough for the Noctua. It will start rotating only if helped by hand - when the PSU is idle, that is. Is the fan on the ST45SF-G load or temp controlled? I was just wondering if the fan would start spinning early enough when the load rises. Eventually it will of course, but would the PSU temps go too high before that?

EDIT: It's temp controlled. Used a hair dryer to blow hot air to an open PSU for ~10s and the fan started spinning. So I'll probably go ahead with the installation. :p
Click to expand...

That is good to know. I had tried to run my 80mm Scythe fan off the power supply header but it appeared to not work, so maybe I will have to have another go at it.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top