Shipping First

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Pooky

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Lets say I've got something for sale and I get an offer, but the buyer wants me to ship first for whatever reason. Is there a general rule-of-thumb for how much feedback they should have? I have a decent amount myself (9+ Heat and 138+ eBay), but have lately been asked if I would ship first and I don't really like the idea of sending my stuff to another person without any confirmation that I will actually get paid and not get scammed. Normally, if they pay me and I send the items, if there is a problem I would ask that they send me the stuff back and I would refund their money. Now, if I shipped first and something goes wrong, they have their money and my items. What's doubly scary is that there is no record of the deal anywhere besides the two of us and things that places like Paypal offer aren't available.

Am I too worried over nothing?
 
It's all up to your discretion.
Most people will ship first to others with significantly more heat than themselves. It's also important to see what kind of heat the have, buying, selling, high-ticket items, etc.
 
9 heat isnt a significant amount of references. If the person that has made an offer to you has an actual "significant" amount, then you should ship first (of course, verifying identity through heatware).

Such as if someone has 100 heat and wants you to ship first, its probably safe. :)
 
some have shipped first to me and i've shipped first also.. get as much info from the person as possible. and always ask if they would be willing to pay half as that is more than likely to turn away someone with not so honest intentions. most important use your gut.. doesnt feel right then probably isnt.

Ed
 
Maybe have the buyer pay 50-75% up front and the rest after they receive the item and test it.
 
Shipping first is part of the deal when your new. IMO 9 heat is hardly a "decent" amount. 50% now/later or something.

Pooky said:
Am I too worried over nothing?
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Not neccesarily, HOWEVER IMO if the guy has 50-100 heat....I think you will be fine ;)
Is this a pricey item?
Alot of times, an established member will play middleman for 2 "noobies"
 
If you do it get ALL contact info up front, Then make a call and speak to this person....Also, a land line # is much better than a cell phone # .....
 
COD, Cash on delivery. They can not recieve the package without paying the mail person thingy.
 
COD is a no no usually, You can get sent a box of rocks, as the buyer is not allowed to open or inspect the package until its paid for. Once its paid for, your shit out of luck if you got a box full of tampons when you ordered a PC game.
 
up to you really- there are sometimes when i will NOT pay/ship first to a noob who has few refs. If they have built up a decent rep, then i will, but please follow the trading guidelines in the rules. Read them, follow them-

he doesn't have signifigantly more refs then you, so i'd probably go with a 50-50 type deal. AFTER I checked him out per the trading tips in the rules thread. Get the hint here? ;)

you'd be suprised how often people in TTT section talking about a trade gone bad haven't even done the "basics" of the smart trade practices :(
 
If it's a sale or a purchase I will make sure money changes hands first. If someone buys something from me, I will ask for the money first before I ship. If I buy something from someone else, I will send them the money first. But, I ALWAYS get a phone number and call them before money changes hands.

I don't do trades very often, so I dont have a set rule for them...
 
qbackin said:
Shipping first is part of the deal when your new. IMO 9 heat is hardly a "decent" amount. 50% now/later or something
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I agree. I'm a noobie and thats the way I've been doing. Not 50%, but like a third or something like that. It's been working pretty good for the most part other than one transaction that is pending.
 
I get a lot of 50/50 because most people have ~10 heat and i have ~30.

I just tell them I will send the full amount via paypal. This is of course items that are less than 150 dollars. I doubt anyone will screw someone over for 150 dollars...and if they do they probably desperately need the money.

Use common sense when dealing online trade. 9 heat is not a lot JFYI.
 
That's the problem with shipping first. Who came up with that concept? I don't like it.

Let's say I send my laptop to Billy first, because he has like 30 heat, and I have 10. Billy's car breaks down, so he needs to drop that $1000 into a motor, instead of my laptop.

Now - At the LEAST, assuming he returns it right away - I've wasted a week with the laptop, and, say, at least $20 in shipping. That's if he doesn't decide that he REALLY wants it and keeps it, or at least takes a REALLY long time to pay.

I really don't like the concept of shipping first. Regardless of heat, etc, stuff happens. Granted, someone with high heat is more likely to be a 'stand-up' kinda guy, but still.
 
As was said previously, it's your discretion. But understand also some will probably not want to deal with you if they are very established and if the user is a "noobie" with little heat. I personally have walked from deals I didn't feel comfortable with. Is it my loss? Who knows as the deal never happened. WHo knows what the outcome might have been. I can tell you in a couple instances I refused deals, and others did and were burned. I just feel better that I have never been scammed and use common sense. At the end of a day, if a deal didn't happen, it's alright. I move on.. ;)
 
I only have about a dozen heatware, and just under 100 ebay feedback, and I've never even been asked to ship first, and even if I was I wouldn't ship first without 50% of the cash & shipping up front. Granted I've never had any transaction go bad, but I've seen plenty of cases where established, good traders with lots of heatware went "bad" and took off with someones money or merchandise, and plenty of cases where someone has fluffed up their heatware using fake accounts and someone got burned bad.

I just PM or email the person back and forth a few times setting up the details, and if I don't feel comfortable or get that "feeling" that this person maybe shady, no matter what heat/ebay feedback they may have, I just back out, no harm in being too safe.
 
I had to do it when I was new and I feel other new traders should have to as well. Thats my simple opinion on the situation. I did not feel comfortable at first but but I also did not ship first to anyone but very established traders with heat over 200-300+. Maybe I just got lucky with who asked me to ship first I do not know but it makes a good impression on others when you do it.
 
I would NEVER send first. I would also NEVER expect anyone to send to me first. I think it's disrespectful to ask, for one. Sending first is very dangerous. If someone pays you they can get their money back (extremely easily via PayPal) but if you send the item and never get paid, you're SOL. Someone can steal another person's Heat account and use it as their own. It happens on eBay all the time. 10,000+ feedback sellers scamming people out of nowhere.
 
plmartin said:
I would NEVER send first. I would also NEVER expect anyone to send to me first. I think it's disrespectful to ask, for one. Sending first is very dangerous. If someone pays you they can get their money back (extremely easily via PayPal) but if you send the item and never get paid, you're SOL. Someone can steal another person's Heat account and use it as their own. It happens on eBay all the time. 10,000+ feedback sellers scamming people out of nowhere.
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Thats your opinion about it and I respect although I dont agree with it. Ebay is ebay, not the forums, it really doesnt belong in this conversation bcause your talking about being scammed, were talking about shipping first. You dont get asked to ship first on ebay. Ive heard all the stories about 10,000 ebayers scamming people but ive never seen it with my own eyes. Its one of the internet urban legends to scare people man. Ive never heard of a trader getting ripped off by shipping first IF they shipped to an established trader that has been around for 4-5+ years. It may have happened with sending stuff to a noobie first but thats their own fault and have no one to blame but themselves. You can get scammed anywhere and shipping first has nothing to do with it. If you really think asking someone to ship first is disrespectful then you must have REALLY soft skin dude heh. And if was so "disrespectful", I highly doubt it would be such a common practice as it is on this forum and many others. I would not take offense to some guy I dont know on the 'net asking me if I would ship first to them and you should not either, who cares? There are much bigger things to worry about in life then that bro. If someone asked you to ship first, politely say no and move on. Dont take offense to it, like I said its common practice so you cannot blame traders when they ask. They dont want to get ripped off by a noob that is trying to sell something that may be or may not be a working item. The point of getting it shipped first it to make sure it works and then you pay the person as soon as you test it and it checks out fine. Its not a big deal and no one is going to harass you for it if you say no. If they do then they really arent good traders to begin with and suggest you move on. I shipped first when I was new and only did it a few times with very established traders and with very small items. Nothing over $50. I shipped 2 sticks of crucial ram first to finkle, a very established trader and an athlon cpu to wampastompa, another established trader. Of course I would not send my laptop first early on in my trading days and I did not care if they hated me for it, oh well. I eventually sold it to someone that checked all my information, called me and talked on the phone for quite a while, checked and confirmed ebay feedback because he wanted to and then asked if I would do the transaction through ebay because he felt more safe that way. I had no problem as I wanted it sold and would have done whatever it took to make the buyer feel comfortable as you should when you are new. No one is asking you to ship first to some noobie with no heat, if they are then again, politely say no and move on. Sending first is not dangerous when you send to the RIGHT PERSON. No one "steals" heat, they just pass it off as their own and if you fall for it and dont check it out and verify everything then I feel you dont need to be trading anyway and whatever happens to you then you have to blame yourself for it. No one can pass it off as their own if you are thorough about it. If you are a person that likes to rush through deals and not back up information then yeah you will fall for it, but the smart traders do not and will not fall for it. Basically its like this, if you dont want to ship first dont do it but dont feel disrespected. Its fairly standard practice and until that changes, expect to get asked if you are new. If you want to build a reputation and be trusted by others then you may have to ship a few smaller things first to well known/established traders. If that is what it takes, then do it if you are serious about trading. And another thing that pisses me off is just because you have 50 heatware from BUYING stuff from other people it does not make you a good seller. Only if you start to get heat from SELLING stuff to others will you be taken seriously and respected as a seller by me and I am sure by others.
 
smut said:
Thats your opinion about it and I respect although I dont agree with it. Ebay is ebay, not the forums, it really doesnt belong in this conversation bcause your talking about being scammed, were talking about shipping first.

snipped for length


If that is what it takes, then do it if you are serious about trading. And another thing that pisses me off is just because you have 50 heatware from BUYING stuff from other people it does not make you a good seller. Only if you start to get heat from SELLING stuff to others will you be taken seriously and respected as a seller by me and I am sure by others.
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Here, Here!!
Very well said
I agree 100%
 
Locutus said:
Here, Here!!
Very well said
I agree 100%
Click to expand...
Thanks man, I was a lil' tipsy last night. Me and the girl had quite a few too many drinks and I went off on a rant :D
 
I think it depends on a lot of factors:

  • Cost of item being sold
  • Seller's feedback rating
  • Buyer's feedback rating

I was in the market for a processor last week and saw one. Over $200. The seller had a reasonable price, and reasonable Heat but was a n00bie on the forums here. I have a good Heat record (18-0-0) and a good Ebay record (103-0-0) so I asked if he'd ship first. He responded with a counter-offer, that I could pay $40-50, he'd ship, if I was satisfied, I could pay the rest. I agreed, and the transaction went very smoothly. We both took a risk, but it was reasonable in both our minds. I'd be willing to meet someone halfway myself if they had a good record; most people out to scam aren't willing to pay 50% of an item's cost, they want free, not cheap.

I don't ask if a buyer will ship first if an item is small potatoes (i.e., $50 or less). Most of the items I'd want to buy here aren't the kind likely to be used in a scam. Most people I buy from have excellent HeatWare, too. A good feedback rating hopefully lists both buying and selling (hopefully even a cross-trade or two if you're lucky) and has at least one recent transaction (say, within the past month if possible).
 
smut said:
Thats your opinion about it and I respect although I dont agree with it. Ebay is ebay, not the forums, it really doesnt belong in this conversation bcause your talking about being scammed, were talking about shipping first. You dont get asked to ship first on ebay. Ive heard all the stories about 10,000 ebayers scamming people but ive never seen it with my own eyes. Its one of the internet urban legends to scare people man. Ive never heard of a trader getting ripped off by shipping first IF they shipped to an established trader that has been around for 4-5+ years. It may have happened with sending stuff to a noobie first but thats their own fault and have no one to blame but themselves. You can get scammed anywhere and shipping first has nothing to do with it. If you really think asking someone to ship first is disrespectful then you must have REALLY soft skin dude heh. And if was so "disrespectful", I highly doubt it would be such a common practice as it is on this forum and many others. I would not take offense to some guy I dont know on the 'net asking me if I would ship first to them and you should not either, who cares? There are much bigger things to worry about in life then that bro. If someone asked you to ship first, politely say no and move on. Dont take offense to it, like I said its common practice so you cannot blame traders when they ask. They dont want to get ripped off by a noob that is trying to sell something that may be or may not be a working item. The point of getting it shipped first it to make sure it works and then you pay the person as soon as you test it and it checks out fine. Its not a big deal and no one is going to harass you for it if you say no. If they do then they really arent good traders to begin with and suggest you move on. I shipped first when I was new and only did it a few times with very established traders and with very small items. Nothing over $50. I shipped 2 sticks of crucial ram first to finkle, a very established trader and an athlon cpu to wampastompa, another established trader. Of course I would not send my laptop first early on in my trading days and I did not care if they hated me for it, oh well. I eventually sold it to someone that checked all my information, called me and talked on the phone for quite a while, checked and confirmed ebay feedback because he wanted to and then asked if I would do the transaction through ebay because he felt more safe that way. I had no problem as I wanted it sold and would have done whatever it took to make the buyer feel comfortable as you should when you are new. No one is asking you to ship first to some noobie with no heat, if they are then again, politely say no and move on. Sending first is not dangerous when you send to the RIGHT PERSON. No one "steals" heat, they just pass it off as their own and if you fall for it and dont check it out and verify everything then I feel you dont need to be trading anyway and whatever happens to you then you have to blame yourself for it. No one can pass it off as their own if you are thorough about it. If you are a person that likes to rush through deals and not back up information then yeah you will fall for it, but the smart traders do not and will not fall for it. Basically its like this, if you dont want to ship first dont do it but dont feel disrespected. Its fairly standard practice and until that changes, expect to get asked if you are new. If you want to build a reputation and be trusted by others then you may have to ship a few smaller things first to well known/established traders. If that is what it takes, then do it if you are serious about trading. And another thing that pisses me off is just because you have 50 heatware from BUYING stuff from other people it does not make you a good seller. Only if you start to get heat from SELLING stuff to others will you be taken seriously and respected as a seller by me and I am sure by others.
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I brought up eBay because eBay has a feedback system just like Heatware. Accounts can and do get stolen. Search eBay for high-end items and you'll see people with HUGE feedback ratings with very questionable descriptions. Just the other day, on my search for a laptop I read the questions to the seller and he was responding saying his account was hijacked and not to bid. He had thousands of positives. It's no urban legend.

Just because a trader is established doesn't mean they won't rob you. I have seen people send first to high-Heat buyers and then never get paid. I only pay through PayPal so I'm protected as a buyer if the item doesn't come/doesn't work. If I send an item there is NO WAY I can get it back if the guy is a thief. I've been asked to send first and been flamed for my view on it. Whatever you do is your choice and it doesn't affect me either way so go right ahead and do what you want.
 
plmartin said:
I brought up eBay because eBay has a feedback system just like Heatware. Accounts can and do get stolen. Search eBay for high-end items and you'll see people with HUGE feedback ratings with very questionable descriptions. Just the other day, on my search for a laptop I read the questions to the seller and he was responding saying his account was hijacked and not to bid. He had thousands of positives. It's no urban legend.

Just because a trader is established doesn't mean they won't rob you. I have seen people send first to high-Heat buyers and then never get paid. I only pay through PayPal so I'm protected as a buyer if the item doesn't come/doesn't work. If I send an item there is NO WAY I can get it back if the guy is a thief. I've been asked to send first and been flamed for my view on it. Whatever you do is your choice and it doesn't affect me either way so go right ahead and do what you want.
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Dude of course its my choice. I never said you were wrong for not doing it so dont get all pissy about it. I never said my choice affected you, and I will go right ahead and do what I want just like everyone else will. I said I respected your opinion. No one told you to ship first if you dont want to. I was stating my point of view and that seems to bother you I guess. I never ever said there is a guarantee on anything on the forums and anyone who says their is guarantees is insane! And like I said in my post, if someone flames you for not shipping first, who cares? Obviously they are an asshole. And i've never seen an established (meaning been around for years, done many deals where they have had others ship items first and have paid immediately, have hundreds and hundreds of heat, cross traded, cross shipped and overall has a good reputation on the forums) trader "rob" anyone. I'd like proof, threads, whatever it may be please? What are the usernames of all of these people so I can put those people on my "do not trade" list.
 
9 Heat is a "decent amount" these days? Sorry but I'm laughing right now...

Things to know about shipping first:

1. Personal Choice - do it or don't your call - it may make or break a sale but it may also make or break you losing money. I've personally only had a problem once with shipping first that was when I was pretty new myself. The guy ended up paying but it took about 2 months.

2. Heatware is a thing of honor - don't bring up bs like people can hijack others heatware accounts. Have you ever seen it done personally? I've seen it done once by an individual and he was caught within about 30 minutes of posting his thread...With Ebay you get feedback and you have true clue if it was bs a one cent auction or for a pricey laptop after the 3 month period of archiving the items ends. If you think you can bs heatware go for it and try - it's virtually impossible...

3. Your rules (aka Personal choice continuation) - you should establish some rules early in your trading 'career'. Either always ship first when the user has alot of heat or never ship first and just stick to it. I decided that I ship first to anyone who has lower heat than me. If someone is new and will not ship first, I only pay them via CC PayPal because that way I'm protected. I also decided I do 50/50 with members that have close to the heat I have.

Good luck with your trade.
 
i think this has run its course, its up the the buyer and seller to work out shipping arrangments. Follow what some have said above and use your head and it should be ok
 
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