SENTRY: Console-sized gaming PC case project

Thanks for looking into it SaperPL. Hopefully you find a good solution to fitting more drives in that area of the case. Personally, having those four 2.5" drives stacked on top of each other like that would be more than enough for my needs.

As for your GPU recommendations, the Galax 970 Mini is measured as having a length of 179mm, but the Zotac 970 Mini is measured at 203mm (brochure). So if your HDD/SSD bracket were to be used, the Zotac 970 Mini wouldn't fit, correct?
 
If you look closely at the photo of backside of VGA you'll see that last ~8mm of the card is just the top cover plate which probably is detachable, hopefully with fans attached to the radiator not the cover plate.
zotac-gtx-970.jpg

There are screws on the sides visible and you can see the metal piece its attached to through the right fan opening.
1167955.jpg


Oh, and theoretically I've got 202.88mm from wall to the hard drive package and I probably could move the whole air inlet 0.5mm if that were to be a problem.

EDIT:
I think I can get 210mm space for the card here but I must think on how some details will look because of that and what can I do about them.
 
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I've found a good configuration for those mounting holes, it doesn't break the looks of bottom inlet too much.
We have the 3.5" mounting holes and the mentioned earlier brackets which will leave a space for 210mm VGA with those four stacked 2.5" drives in the front.

Additionally I've made the bracket dual purpose, so we'll be able to stack two 3.5" drives with it.



So now this configuration would let us install inside VGA bay:
- 12 x 2.5" drives when no VGA installed
- 4 x 2.5" drives + 2 x 3.5" drives when no VGA installed
- 1 x 2.5" drive + 1 x 3.5" drive when single slot (short) VGA installed
- 3 x 2.5" drives + 1 x 3.5" drive when single slot (short) VGA installed with two 3.5"->2.5" bracket converters
- 3 x 2.5" drives when full length card is installed (physically possible, not recommended)
- 4 x 2.5" drives when short, 210mm max VGA installed
- 6 x 2.5" drives when short, 210mm max VGA installed (physically possible, not recommended)

I'll update the OP with with those configs when We'll be sure there's nothing more to tweak here at this moment :)
 
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Oh wow, that's a really nice feature having the same "mount" for both 2.5" and 3.5" HDDs, kudos on that one!
 
The changes sound good. Is the current HDD/SSD bracket still using the short 3.5mm long screws? What exactly is the issue when using short 3.5mm long screws? Noise from HDD vibrations?
 
SaperPL said:
We've already added those to the back, directly above IO shield. They are not entirely cut out so you'll need pliers to make two cuts, similar to those pci-e slot plugs that once removed cannot be mounted again.

sYa2WHV.jpg
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You may want to add a 3rd hole as 3x3 antenna configurations are definitely a thing.
 
Are there miniPCI-e or simillar non standard desktop PCI/PCI-e adapters with three antenna connectors?

EDIT: nevermind, already found one

centrino-ultimate-n-6300-2x1.png.rendition.cq5dam.webintel.310.155.png
 
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Hey Saper and Zombi, could you name your case design? Someone on a forum was asking for a list of console form-factor cases and I wanted to suggest your design, but I don't want to just call it "Unnamed".
 
hey you two,
i know im a little late to the party, but i just read the whole thread and for me this would be the perfect case. As i understand you have problems, with the price and quality of the production. i just wanted to tell you that i am honestly amazed what great things can be developed, without big companies.
anyhow just letting you know i would also be ok with a few euros more. I think at this point others are too, as all other projects have been discontinued or given up upon. So dont give up, and keep up the good work guys!

greetings dave :)

also, i have this exact mini graphic card shown above in case you need measuring or info ;)
 
FiDDy said:
hey you two,
i know im a little late to the party, but i just read the whole thread and for me this would be the perfect case. As i understand you have problems, with the price and quality of the production. i just wanted to tell you that i am honestly amazed what great things can be developed, without big companies.
anyhow just letting you know i would also be ok with a few euros more. I think at this point others are too, as all other projects have been discontinued or given up upon. So dont give up, and keep up the good work guys!

greetings dave :)

also, i have this exact mini graphic card shown above in case you need measuring or info ;)
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Noone said we are giving up :) At this moment we are finalizing our 3rd prototype. Everything takes time, and this is why we're not answering so often in this topic. Laser companies are making many mistakes and we have to "fight" with them to proove, that our design is good and their quality control is bad. With this 3rd prototype we think we've got a factory for our metal sheets (only 1 from 9 laser-cut bent parts came back with mistake).

And about the price. Our target is to make a production version of our case with price below $180. We are trying to make a $149 case, because we think that, case which costs over $200 is some kind a mistake (in other topics designers are starting with prices like $190-$250, because they need to "slice the cake" with their bigger subcontractors). We are enginners, and a good engineer role is to make things as good as possible with the lowest possible price. Prices over $200 with the cases we are seeing nowadays in SFF aren't made by engineers... believe me.

And finally, about the minimum order quantity for the production start. If we would work with big companies like LianLi, probably we would need about 200-500 orders to make the case. In our project we plan to make a minimum number of orders <=25 per batch. At this moment, 25 orders is the number which allows us to keep the price <$150. We have some small additional costs which we don't know at this point, but according to our knowledge, they won't have a big influence on the price.

Please wait a little bit more. We are really trying, and most of the delays aren't because of our lack of time, but because we don't like compromises and we are still talking with the laser companies about their quality.
 
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well thats nice to hear!
reading this thread, i almost thought you two would just run of with the 2 prototypes youve got :D
its really refreshing to see that yoo two stick to your concept :)

ill guess the only thing that ive got left to do now is smile, wait and occasionaly check for updates ^^
 
Some info on the drives and brackets for stacking:

We've ordered those as well with 3rd prototype and it looks like it'll work okay even when using two 3.5" drives stacked.

Photos made with my potato phone:



Once again those are backup solutions to increase configuration options and are not really easy to install like the tool-less stuff we get in mainstream cases.
 
SaperPL said:
Some info on the drives and brackets for stacking:

We've ordered those as well with 3rd prototype and it looks like it'll work okay even when using two 3.5" drives stacked.

Once again those are backup solutions to increase configuration options and are not really easy to install like the tool-less stuff we get in mainstream cases.
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I will tell you that I absolutely LOVE that design. Freaking ingenious.

However, I have two questions about it, both relatively serious:

1: Can we have some way of isolating the drives, pretty please? Making it just a fraction wider and putting rubber grommets in the screw holes for the bracket would be fine, I just want something to help protect the longevity of the drive. (You would only have to give us four rubber grommets, really, and have us put them in ourselves.) If that's not possible, I'll probably look at a way to mod the case to secure the drives with rubber isolation bands - it shouldn't be too difficult to add hooks to the sides of it.

2: There is actually a pretty serious issue with the setup as you have it right now - there will be no possible way to plug in the bottom drive. With 90% of the power supplies out there, the end SATA power is at a right angle, not straight to the cable. That means you're trying to bend both ends of a middle connector back, which you won't have the bottom clearance for. It's physically not going to happen.

My suggestion to fix this is to turn the bottom hard drive over, so the connectors are on top. That causes an issue with securing the drive, though, so it might mean the bracket has to get more complicated.
 
The whole idea was to make it simple and let you install it using screw threads that are already there at the bottom of the hard drive. We don't really want to increase the complexity of this backup solution.

The problem with cables being angled is if you're going to have all angled connectors then you're going to have problem with installing one drive just above another anyway. Rather than making it more complex which would probably also make supporting the 3.5" harder with same bracket I'd advise to use some of those molex -> sata power convertes:

molex2xsata.jpg


Those cables are sometimes also supplied with motherboard and are relatively cheap. I know that it's a half measure but once again those brackets are the additional/backup solutions for those wanting to use more drives somehow.

SFX/SFX-L will most likely have at least 2 molex connectors like the silverstone's SFX-L:

7b-Box.jpg


So you should be able to support at least 4 drives with those straight connectors (1 x molex - > 2 x sata)

Don't get me wrong - it's not like wouldn't want to fix this but it would force us to redesign the whole thing for the support of 3.5" drives to not bend the bottom with their stacked weigh which currently doesn't happen because it's laying flat and force is spread on whole area of 3.5" bottom.

About the grommets - I'll think about this but I'm not really sure do you want to isolate drives from the vibrations or the current? I'm not really sure if there's a space to make the holes big enough to use grommets especially for the bottom drive. And adding holes for grommets to the bottom would definitely break the looks of the case for people using it in vertical position.

Anyway we'll think about those two problems. Thanks for the heads up.
 
The molex to sata converter is a decent option - I didn't think about those having flat cables. That could definitely work, and even if it wouldn't look beautiful, this isn't a case for displaying internals anyways. I would perhaps start making a list of the little things like this that you can print and put on a sheet of paper with each case that ships out. Things like that, what can and can't be used with X sized graphics card or a SFX-L power supply...

The point about the drives bending the bottom with more concentrated pressure is definitely a good one; I didn't even think about that. As for the grommets... those of us particularly obsessed with silence will probably jury-rig a form of vibration isolation, but for those who aren't, it's worse for the drive to be directly secured to the case, and it's noisier. I totally get where you're coming from, and it's probably not even worth worrying about; it's just a thought that's there.

EDIT: I've seen a solution that's similar to the rubber pins that nanoxia and noctua use to install their fans. On one end, it's a hard drive screw, and on the other, it's a rubber push pin. I'll see if I can find them anywhere - it would be a simple and clean looking solution to this.
 
darksable said:
The molex to sata converter is a decent option - I didn't think about those having flat cables. That could definitely work, and even if it wouldn't look beautiful, this isn't a case for displaying internals anyways. I would perhaps start making a list of the little things like this that you can print and put on a sheet of paper with each case that ships out. Things like that, what can and can't be used with X sized graphics card or a SFX-L power supply...
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We have a quite decent solution for informing people what fits in what configuration, don't worry about that, it's just not there yet until we show you the case irl.

darksable said:
The point about the drives bending the bottom with more concentrated pressure is definitely a good one; I didn't even think about that. As for the grommets... those of us particularly obsessed with silence will probably jury-rig a form of vibration isolation, but for those who aren't, it's worse for the drive to be directly secured to the case, and it's noisier. I totally get where you're coming from, and it's probably not even worth worrying about; it's just a thought that's there.
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The problem is - its a backup idea, perfect for those who want to have for example four SSD's drives - there's no problem with vibrations in that config. As for the hard drives and 3.5" - we're sticking to standard old-school hard mounting and you'll probably have to bear with that unless you want to make your own brackets with anti vibration support, then it'll probably be easy to get your own bracket manufactured at your local shop after you get the case and it won't suck in looks inside the case :)

As for the noise tests - we have the testing equipment but we're simply not there yet to build the first fully working prototype. We hope to get that soon but we're still blocked by some external factors :|

Anyway you should note that as the console in front of tv it is a little bit further from the user than when you use it as pc in workstation configuration.

darksable said:
EDIT: I've seen a solution that's similar to the rubber pins that nanoxia and noctua use to install their fans. On one end, it's a hard drive screw, and on the other, it's a rubber push pin. I'll see if I can find them anywhere - it would be a simple and clean looking solution to this.
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You could probably use something like this

37447.jpg

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__37447__General_Purpose_Anti_Vibration_Rubber_w_M3_x_11mm_Screw_and_M3_Nylock_Nut_4pcs_set.html

But you should think about the length of the screws on the bottom drive because the side sockets and bottom sockets use the same area as I mentioned before.


By the way: We're talking about perfect solutions while other cases designers here consider using adhesive tape to mount drives :D
 
SaperPL said:
By the way: We're talking about perfect solutions while other cases designers here consider using adhesive tape to mount drives :D
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Double sided adhesive foam tape can be a great solution! It is lightweight, cheap, space efficient, doesn't require any screw holes in any panels to be visible from the outside, and is very versatile, because it allows the user to save space where they see fit.

Won't post a link to the case, don't wanna hijack your thread ;)
 
Yeah, I know, it's just that we're making our first case and people looking at that think we should be able to accommodate every case industry standard such as tool-less installation, high end filtering and vibration damping with noise cancelling. All of that simply cannot be done in our position at this point.

We're focusing on the function(fitting high-end components) and the form(external looks) first and secondly we're trying to make it a lasting product that you won't throw out when building next rig simply because of the "old looks" or plastics deterioration.

Because of that there'll be some different or even weird things in components installation such as those drive brackets and screwing the bottom one to the bottom wall. That approach lets us fit everything within those 7 litres, keep up the good price for everyone and simply not break the external looks of the case.
 
iFreilicht said:
Double sided adhesive foam tape can be a great solution!
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Only if it's the easy-to-remove non-tearing kind. Tearing foam tape is a major pain in the cornhole. :p

I prefer 3M's clear plastic mounting tape that doesn't tear on removal (but instead sometimes sticks so well that you may break the thing you've taped if not being careful).
 
SaperPL said:
Yeah, I know, it's just that we're making our first case and people looking at that think we should be able to accommodate every case industry standard such as tool-less installation, high end filtering and vibration damping with noise cancelling. All of that simply cannot be done in our position at this point.

We're focusing on the function(fitting high-end components) and the form(external looks) first and secondly we're trying to make it a lasting product that you won't throw out when building next rig simply because of the "old looks" or plastics deterioration.

Because of that there'll be some different or even weird things in components installation such as those drive brackets and screwing the bottom one to the bottom wall. That approach lets us fit everything within those 7 litres, keep up the good price for everyone and simply not break the external looks of the case.
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Ah ok, it seems I misunderstood the implication you were making with that comment.

backfeed said:
Only if it's the easy-to-remove non-tearing kind. Tearing foam tape is a major pain in the cornhole. :p

I prefer 3M's clear plastic mounting tape that doesn't tear on removal (but instead sometimes sticks so well that you may break the thing you've taped if not being careful).
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I wouldn't want anyone to break their HDDs in half :D I'll definitely test different types, 3M seems to be quite generous with model orders from what I learned at work. Maybe they even have tape that sticks better on one side than on the other.
 
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iFreilicht said:
Ah ok, it seems I misunderstood the implication you were making with that comment.

I wouldn't want anyone to break their HDDs in half :D I'll definitely test different types, 3M seems to be quite generous with model orders from what I learned at work. Maybe they even have tape that sticks better on one side than on the other.
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I'm not reading every post in other threads so please tell me what did i miss? Adhesive tape? Really? Anyone thought about fastening some "heavy", heating and resonating electronic devices with adhesive tape? MacGyver?:confused:
 
ZombiPL said:
I'm not reading every post in other threads so please tell me what did i miss? Adhesive tape? Really? Anyone thought about fastening some "heavy", heating and resonating electronic devices with adhesive tape? MacGyver?:confused:
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You missed this.

As you may immediately notice, it will be quite hard to mount the HDDs, so the current plan is to use adhesive tape on both the top of the PSU and the inside of the top panel and have the HDDs sandwiched between them.
 
There are things you can skip like toolless features, noise cancelling and so on, but I would not use double sided foam tape at all. It may mean adding 2mm of thickness or whatever, and that's entirely up to you whether it's worth it or not.

Again, foam tape is crossing the line for me. It works in keeping things in their place, but I would hate to think about swapping parts, degradation of adhesive (with time and heat), dust collection etc.
 
yolostrats said:
There are things you can skip like toolless features, noise cancelling and so on, but I would not use double sided foam tape at all. It may mean adding 2mm of thickness or whatever, and that's entirely up to you whether it's worth it or not.

Again, foam tape is crossing the line for me. It works in keeping things in their place, but I would hate to think about swapping parts, degradation of adhesive (with time and heat), dust collection etc.
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+1

I think iFreilicht has to make this mistake before he'll understand this is a wrong way.
 
yolostrats said:
There are things you can skip like toolless features, noise cancelling and so on, but I would not use double sided foam tape at all. It may mean adding 2mm of thickness or whatever, and that's entirely up to you whether it's worth it or not.

Again, foam tape is crossing the line for me. It works in keeping things in their place, but I would hate to think about swapping parts, degradation of adhesive (with time and heat), dust collection etc.
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I see your points, and maybe ZombiPL is right, because right now, I don't think any of those points are real issues. :D I mean, how often do you swap your HDD exactly?
 
Look at it this way - your 'retail' case will have a semi-permanent mounting solution for the PSU and drives or whatever else.

Ultimately it's your case but I think it's not the right time to bring to market if foam tape is the best solution you have. I wouldn't if this was my case, but perhaps I have higher tolerances.

The way I see it - you juggle case dimensions/volume/size with features. You may need to add 3-4mm of height for a mounting solution. It's not a huge amount.

On the other hand, you can try explaining that foam tape mounting brings the cost of the case down.
 
yolostrats said:
Look at it this way - your 'retail' case will have a semi-permanent mounting solution for the PSU and drives or whatever else.

Ultimately it's your case but I think it's not the right time to bring to market if foam tape is the best solution you have. I wouldn't if this was my case, but perhaps I have higher tolerances.

The way I see it - you juggle case dimensions/volume/size with features. You may need to add 3-4mm of height for a mounting solution. It's not a huge amount.

On the other hand, you can try explaining that foam tape mounting brings the cost of the case down.
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You're probably right, and I think I've found a solution that actually doesn't require me to enlarge the case.
The thing is, I'm obsessed with size, I'd rather have my HDDs mounted semi-permanently than having the case 4mm thicker. And with 58mm of thickness, an increase by 4mm is actually quite a lot, close to 7%. I often forget that not everyone values size over everything else as much as I do.
 
Any news? Maybe I pick a Node 202 meanwhile you release your case.

U think R9 290 Tri-X will fit? (305mm long).

I'm thinking in a SFX-L PSU. And a 36mm CPU Cooler. Then I supone I can carry only one 2.5" unit. Right?

In that case i'll try to find a Mainboard with M2

Thanks
 
Not much at this point. We're working with metal parts manufacturer to ensure repeatability of our design.

They've got a problem with maintaining the cover dimensions and so we're still working that out with them to get a design that will work properly for manufacturing. That sadly takes time because until we launch and order whole batch it's a small project for them and it's not their top priority.



If you're asking about our case (not the node 202) then yes - the target is to fit 305mm card and we have 306mm space for the card but that last millimetre might vary depending on precision - it might be a bit less or more.

Anyway by design we're letting you put a whole 305mm card inside but that's including the bracket thickness(excluding the bend for screwing and excludingconnectors) so you've got to figure out how long your card really is.

What I'm afraid of is that a 300W card such as the 290X might not be a good idea for such a build, but according to dondan's test if there's direct inlet from the outside it should be able to get cool enough. Probably we'll end up with supplying taller feet for such builds so it's easier to suck in more air from the bottom.

Rest's pretty much what as you said - one drive with SFX-L. Try to get a motherboard with cpu socket on the far side from the pci-e and you'll be able to use stock intel cooler and other such tall units.
 
Anyway by design we're letting you put a whole 305mm card inside but that's including the bracket thickness(excluding the bend for screwing and excludingconnectors) so you've got to figure out how long your card really is.
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I follow the official dimensions Sapphire made public. Dont know if the 305mm they said is including or excluding the bend for screwing

What I'm afraid of is that a 300W card such as the 290X might not be a good idea for such a build, but according to dondan's test if there's direct inlet from the outside it should be able to get cool enough. Probably we'll end up with supplying taller feet for such builds so it's easier to suck in more air from the bottom.
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Well its a Sapphire's R9 290 Tri-X 275W (not the R9 290X Tri-X 300W). It's the coolest R9 290 unit. More than Gigabyte's Windforce 3X and Asus DirectCU II. I know the tests dondan's did. I wish they come true in this case too.

Rest's pretty much what as you said - one drive with SFX-L. Try to get a motherboard with cpu socket on the far side from the pci-e and you'll be able to use stock intel cooler and other such tall units.
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Today i'll pay for this one. Is far from PCIE. I was thinking in the NH-L9i (good relation between cooling and silence) and cool i5 like 4440 or similar. Feel free to recommend another CPU or cooler if you think i'm wrong in my choice

Thanks
 
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I'm not really opting for the case to be supporting 250W+ gpu's since you can have now great performance with 980's 165W and 970's 145W so the power consumption should go down on this end, but still the inlets for the card are letting it get the air straight from the outside so it should work.

When we're ready with the working proto we'll test it with 270X windforce initially and we'll know how does it work for this target TDP around 175W.

As for the cpu cooler - I really didn't have any problems with stock intel coolers so far but again if there's high temperatures on those in our case we'll probably be testing more units.

Finally if you read the thread from the start, we're planning some initial batch for testing and we hope some more testing to be made by hardware media.
 
It was a good deal (180€, used with warranty). It's only 45W more than mi previous GTX770 :). But ill try to change it for a 970 if it's needed.
 
elshekar said:
It was a good deal (180€, used with warranty). It's only 45W more than mi previous GTX770 :). But ill try to change it for a 970 if it's needed.
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Please wait with changing your card. In our project, gpu card is so close to the case edge, that we think it might be considered as installed outside the case. We're waiting for the final 2 parts for our box. We can't make it faster. Laser company had problems with the bending of our sliding cover, so we had to redesign it, and that is why we are still waiting...
 
Does that mean that any GPU higher than PCIe reference height will not fit inside this case?
At least that's what it looks like from the renders on the first page.
 
iFreilicht said:
Does that mean that any GPU higher than PCIe reference height will not fit inside this case?
At least that's what it looks like from the renders on the first page.
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Our target is to make a case where 95% GPUs from the market will fit. Those 5% are some weirdos we found in the internet, which could have some problems with (for example) power connectors. At this moment, as Saper said, we have 270x windforce 3x edition as a testing card. This isn't the biggest one, but also not the smallest one. It's enought to show You how much space left. We're still waiting with showing You the interioir of the case, because we still don't know if laser company will get the manufacturing repeatability. If not, than we will have to change some things again.
 
To simplify this talk - this is how it looks:

ZfEoGIz.jpg


This is a mockup, I remember there were this kind of cards from MSI but I can't find the models. Now MSI tends to make those a lot more oversized where only SLI/Crossfire connectors stay within PCI-E standard outline.

We've left 19mm for power connector to fit with cable. Your card PCB can be oversized this way and of course your cooler can be oversized this way but the PEG connectors must stay within PCI-E standard outline. All the rest must fit within those additional 19mm.

If your card is a lot thicker than standard two-slot model than you will need to check that separately because of the 45 degree edge.

BTW, here's the standard dimension:

obfwGBa.png
 
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