screen [door] effect: *is* there a lcd that does not have this?!

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freestonew

Weaksauce
Joined
Jan 14, 2010
Messages
94
hi all.

sigh.

I began this Question several weeks ago.
I have become vexed. Here I have an otherwise wonderful NEC ea321wmi monitor and any photo or image that i look at, i see what looks to be a screen door effect over my image. I cannot deny to myself that it is there. if i peer closely, looks to be like a grid of tiny black lines covering the screen and i find this distracting as I am very sensitive to this sort of thing.

I am back now to my crt viewsonic A90fx. all of 18" and there is hardly a trace of this screen effect there.

I just recently read, and saw the image for, someone on the thread of the new dell S... series of ips/va monitors, he bought the s2440l model, the mva panel and the screen effect on his image is HORRIBLE!!
[page 16 of that thread.]
http://pcmonitors.info/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/S2440L-controls.jpg


*IS* there a monitor, other than maybe the high end apples or the very expensive Pro models, that does not have this screen door overlay effect?!

I realize that a high pixel count per inch usually means a high $$$ cost.

i guess I can dream, maybe some day i can afford one.

maybe though someone here has found a cheaper model, over 22", that does not have this effect. Otherwise my model-hunt might be over for a while.....

thanks...freestone
 
you have to choose: get an smaller acreen or drop the money for a higher resolution/higher dpi panel.
as long as your vision can discern pixels, there will be an screen door. photos taken make this worst because the light sensor can not "blend" the pixels as the human brain does. You dont need to go very high on the expense to achieve this: get an Achieva Shimian.

It is completely unfair to compare CRTs with LCDs. No LCD south of 27" can beat a regular 22" CRT image qualitywise.
 
How close do you sit to your LCD? If you can discern individual pixels, you may be sitting too close. Or you have superman quality x-ray eyes there...

Although I do agree in that pic of that s2440l there, it does look rather screen-doorish. Strange, usually it's less pronounced in VA models, or so I have read.

I personally haven't seen the screendoor thing myself with my monitors, but my vision isn't the greatest to begin with. I also keep them at least 2ft away, probably more like 30".
 
sensitive?!!
---why if i have even a tiny speck of dust on my glasses, i notice this right away.
one day, in my senior home, I sat next to a guy in such a way that i could see past his head through his eye glasses and it was a wonder that he could even see! the lenses looked so greasy-dirty that it looked as if someone smeared butter on them! he did not notice this, apparently!

I sit about 20 inches from my monitor. the crt i now use has it where if i look about 8 inches, i can see the pixels. far *far* better than my nec 23" monitor and that one is so highly rated too! if i look closely enough, why i can see a subtle screen effect on a 27" apple cinema!!

probably i will be haunting piles of old crts, in dim warehouses, in Goodwill shops, for years!

freestone
 
Try 24-30" away and dim the monitor a bit. That may help some.

And yeah, if you sit close enough to just about any monitor, even the ACD, you can discern the space between the pixels. Nobody normally uses a monitor that way though.
 
freestonew said:
sensitive?!!

I sit about 20 inches from my monitor. the crt i now use has it where if i look about 8 inches, i can see the pixels. far *far* better than my nec 23" monitor and that one is so highly rated too! if i look closely enough, why i can see a subtle screen effect on a 27" apple cinema!!
Click to expand...

You know I just took a close look at my monitor and I think I can see the transistors. There they be, hiding in plain sight! "Conned!" I thought, what a horrible piece of junk my zr30w is :mad:! Now if I look REALLY CLOSE I can ALMOST....

...no wait that's my nose squashing up against the monitor.

Why would your face be 8 inches away from a 23 inch screen, unless you are nearsighted? If you are, I recommend glasses.
 
Get an IBM T221, I haven't heard anyone complaining about the screen-door effect on it.
 
there is no lcd which will not have a screendoor effect, not even apple cinema display.here is why http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1723535

you should sit around 36 inches or around 3 feet away from the LCD. that is the only way to avoid this effect.

if you want to get close to the screen, crt is the only option.
 
I went through this same problem after going from CRT to LCD

The trick is higher density in smaller frame.

I am using a 2048x1152 resolution 23" LCD and there is no screendoor effect for me.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824009173

but 23 inch with 1920x1080 I can see the effect.

Unfortunately they stopped making this resolution for some reason.

I am betting the 27 inch with 2560x1440 has little to no screendoor.

1920x1080 24" Pixel Density: 8428 pixels / sq. in. <<<<---- S2440L bad screendoor @ 8k
1920x1080 23" Pixel Density: 9176 pixels / sq. in.
2048x1152 23" Pixel Density: 10441 pixels / sq. in.
2560x1440 27" Pixel Density: 11845 pixels / sq. in.

So I guess 10k density is the magic point of no grid visible.
 
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vibe said:
I went through this same problem after going from CRT to LCD

The trick is higher density in smaller frame.

I am using a 2048x1152 resolution 23" LCD and there is no screendoor effect for me.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824009173

but 23 inch with 1920x1080 I can see the effect.

Unfortunately they stopped making this resolution for some reason.

I am betting the 27 inch with 2560x1440 has little to no screendoor.

1920x1080 24" Pixel Density: 8428 pixels / sq. in. <<<<---- S2440L bad screendoor @ 8k
1920x1080 23" Pixel Density: 9176 pixels / sq. in.
2048x1152 23" Pixel Density: 10441 pixels / sq. in.
2560x1440 27" Pixel Density: 11845 pixels / sq. in.

So I guess 10k density is the magic point of no grid visible.
Click to expand...

i never knew about this monitor till now. how is it? some thoughts please.
 
vibe said:
I went through this same problem after going from CRT to LCD

The trick is higher density in smaller frame.

I am using a 2048x1152 resolution 23" LCD and there is no screendoor effect for me.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824009173

but 23 inch with 1920x1080 I can see the effect.

Unfortunately they stopped making this resolution for some reason.

I am betting the 27 inch with 2560x1440 has little to no screendoor.

1920x1080 24" Pixel Density: 8428 pixels / sq. in. <<<<---- S2440L bad screendoor @ 8k
1920x1080 23" Pixel Density: 9176 pixels / sq. in.
2048x1152 23" Pixel Density: 10441 pixels / sq. in.
2560x1440 27" Pixel Density: 11845 pixels / sq. in.

So I guess 10k density is the magic point of no grid visible.
Click to expand...

the op gets quite close to the monitor from his description... probably a laptop screen like thw retina display would work... but i've read even iphone 4 has screendoor effect showing up on camera when recording its screen.. not sure if its visible IRL but probably is if you get too close like the op.
 
63jax said:
i never knew about this monitor till now. how is it? some thoughts please.
Click to expand...

There used to be one "2048 x 1152" monitors, from Samsung and two from Acer, but i guess they went out of production. it is a rare resolution for HDMI, and the point has become enterily moot with the korean 1440p
 
vibe said:
I went through this same problem after going from CRT to LCD

The trick is higher density in smaller frame.

I am using a 2048x1152 resolution 23" LCD and there is no screendoor effect for me.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824009173

but 23 inch with 1920x1080 I can see the effect.

Unfortunately they stopped making this resolution for some reason.

I am betting the 27 inch with 2560x1440 has little to no screendoor.

1920x1080 24" Pixel Density: 8428 pixels / sq. in. <<<<---- S2440L bad screendoor @ 8k
1920x1080 23" Pixel Density: 9176 pixels / sq. in.
2048x1152 23" Pixel Density: 10441 pixels / sq. in.
2560x1440 27" Pixel Density: 11845 pixels / sq. in.

So I guess 10k density is the magic point of no grid visible.
Click to expand...

hi all again.

this post has given to me Hope!
[i am now at a library computer where there is a printer, as i have no printer at home]
[and no spellchecker either!]

there is now hope for my nec ea 231wmi. i am going to try that 2048 x 1152 res, on it and see if my graphic card and the monitor can take it. then see if this screen door effect is still there.

I seem to have this "sensitive" quality to slight effects in the envirnment. I will notice a bug on the wall where 20 people pass by and do not see it. This in spite of my thick glasses.
maybe it is the genes comeing from my part red american Indian background; the Hunter and tracker!
when Iook at, say, a scenic photo, like the one I looked at the other day on the site "english Russia", they have good photos of Russian countryside and old ruined factories and such, why for example I brought up a photo of a Russian countryside with a view to the horizon with an old farmhouse in the forefront. I immediately nearly put my nose up to the screen so that i could see the hand pump over the well and the type of door knob on the house. then I peered deeply into the photo to sense that view to the far horizon to get a deep feel for the vast Russian countryside. the *Space* behind that house extends for near-vast miles.
Naturally my nose is inches away from the screen. Thus i wish for a monitor that has "nothing" between me and that photo-content!
the chrome browser has an extension that is for facebook and one of this extensions
features is a mouse-over enlargement of the photos, the photo "goes" to the users gallery to bring up the max size, in a new window. This excites me, when I first saw it; now i can get a more profound sense of "being there"!

yes, i am rambling, but now you all have read why I seem to be "obsessive" about finding a monitor with a very good advantage for viewing photos and games in a good sharp clear detail! [ i have posted about four posts, now, on this personal quest-issue!]


the dell 27" s2740l ??
---why this one is a 1080 native resolution. may not "work".
yes a 2560x1440 will "ruin" some of my framerates for my games but if this is what it takes to remove screen door, i will have to do this!

to think that i nearly pulled the trigger on that dell s2440l !
probably that 27" dell will suffer screen effect as well, if 1080 is the top res it takes!

this post reply thus gives to me directions!

see, people, my 18" crt is nearly screen-free, but tis so small and "unimmersive"!
I am used to, i guess, the 22" viewsonic crt, that I had. it died an old age death, i lovingly carried it out to the dumpster/recycling area, of my senior Home, a month ago.

what I "really' need is a 22"-plus good crt. however.....I have been Burned! I have
tried to order a few on ebay and a few other places and.....

One arrived but the shipping ruined it, Returned....
Another arrived ok but it had soft focus because of old age.
yet another came, and while this One was ok, apparently the Thing was used in an industrial setting as the innards stunk of chemicals, chemicals that were in the air at the factory and now are Released into my room when the Thing was warmed up, as this monitor soaked up the fumes, and my COPD lung condition Complained!!
"cheap", all right, but Failures.

[there is a deal on ebay now. two rebranded sony 900, the best there is, under $200 and oh so heavy, oh the shipping cost!! the descriptions, of the two read something like..."worn. scratches on the anti-glare cover, but small. cracks in the bezel."
*old*.]

Me without a car too, maybe locally, here in this city of 200,000+ there would be a few crts. i really really need to Look at them first.
I tried the goodwill electronics store, here they have about ten goodwill stores and they send their electronics to one store. I went and yes they had crts, maybe 20 of them in a litteral Pile, in a huge box. All were maybe 12 to 15 inches! All old and "cheap".
models that were used in offices, mostly govenment offices in this state capital city of tallahassee. the tech guy says to me, "we rarely rarely get a large tube monitor, here"!


later today i am going to turn on both monitors and to try to take a photo shot of each, then I will try to change the resolution of the 23" nec to the 2048x1152 and see if this helps me. if not, or that if the nec cannot get that res very well, at least NOW I know, thanks to you all, just what I should be looking for in a lcd!

freestone
 
freestonew said:
there is now hope for my nec ea 231wmi. i am going to try that 2048 x 1152 res, on it and see if my graphic card and the monitor can take it. then see if this screen door effect is still there.

Naturally my nose is inches away from the screen. Thus i wish for a monitor that has "nothing" between me and that photo-content!
Click to expand...


the nec has a native resolution of 1080p... going to 2048x1152 wont make a difference it is an LCD.

LCD is a technology where you cannot get close to the screen without the screen door effect.

you can use the magnifier tool in windows.
 
The key issue, as has been mentioned, is it seems you sit way too close to the monitor.

If small fonts are an issue, you can increase dpi in Windows settings, and/or increase webpage sizes through browser options.

If you want to go with the super high ppi, you could try things like a 1440p display. If money is no object, I expect Eizo has some super high res screens with an insanely high ppi, but their prices will also be insane too.
 
OMG $30000

http://pcper.com/news/Displays/EIZO-DuraVision-FDH3601-4k-x-2k-Display-and-We-Want-It

look at the 3rd photo (http://pcper.com/image/view/9099?return=node/53018) closeup of the screen. no screendoor effect... but then not sure if you'll be fine in terms of screendoor as close as you get.


the cheap way is to get a regular lcd panel and sit farther back. 3 feet.. get new spectacles.

why dont you get a laptop the old thinkpads have the same high ppi of 125+ and go cheap since they are from 2003-2008 like the uxga 15 inch or sxga 14 inch panels of T series.
 
Pondering if TN might be the panel-type that has least distance between subpixels. But it doesent really matter if you're looking pure green, red or blue fields. They're always gonna look screendoorish with RGB pixel model, irregardless of DPI. Even my aperturegrille CRT gets 'stripes' when looking at pure green.
 
Yeah you aren't going to find 2048x1152 anymore. I've looked for awhile. Mine was only $180 new, I should have bought two!

Apparently the panels were made for awhile after Dell introduced a monitor at that resolution and a few vendors picked it up.

Then several months ago, it all ended. Short production run I guess.

My next jump will be the 27" korean, I am waiting for Dell and others to introduce their budget 27" to put the pressure on prices and have more options for near A grade.

I tried a 30" from Dell once, I think the older 3007WFP ? a couple years ago and I didn't like it, sent it back.

30" 4:3 at 2560x1600 is Pixel Density: 9473 pixels / sq. in.

note how that is below the magic 10k pixels/inch number

but 27" 16:9 2560x1440 is Pixel Density: 11845 pixels / sq. in. so I have high confidence I will like it.

OP might want to try a perfect pixel from Overlord Computer if budget can justify, been debating that myself but can still wait another month or two to see what else shows up.
 
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freestonew said:
there is now hope for my nec ea 231wmi. i am going to try that 2048 x 1152 res, on it and see if my graphic card and the monitor can take it. then see if this screen door effect is still there.
Click to expand...

LCD only has one native resolution, it's not like CRT

you cannot run the nec 231 at 2048x1152 and make the grid go away
it will always be a 1920x1080 native resolution and will scale to that

Use this site to compare two monitors and get the pixel density:

http://tvcalculator.com/

people warn me there is some kind of malware or virus warning on that site but I block all ads anyway so I never see it, I just saved a local version of the page and edited it down to my needs - haven't found another site that does what that one does so well/simply

for example: http://tvcalculator.com/index.html?4409701a3dca9ca81c9611bc3c697f24
that's your 24" 1920x1080 vs my 23" 2048x1152
 
I know what you mean with regard to screen door. At work, I have a lower resolution desk top LCD, but I just couldn't get used to the rough picture. Ended up sticking with the small, but much higher dpi picture of my laptop. For a big TV, I still have DLP. I like the way it has a detailed and clear picture, but still manages to hide the pixels...

My computer CRT at home doesn't bother me in this regard, probably because the CRT is sharp, but not as sharp as LCD. For panels, I think the 4k and the so called "retina" ones are definitely the way to go...for example, difference between 2nd iPad and 3rd (now I guess 4th) one is very stark to my eyes...
 
vibe said:
My next jump will be the 27" korean, I am waiting for Dell and others to introduce their budget 27" to put the pressure on prices and have more options for near A grade.

but 27" 16:9 2560x1440 is Pixel Density: 11845 pixels / sq. in. so I have high confidence I will like it.

OP might want to try a perfect pixel from Overlord Computer if budget can justify, been debating that myself but can still wait another month or two to see what else shows up.
Click to expand...

op might want to note that considering how close he gets to the screen even 11845 pixels/sq.in are not enough.

here is the korean monitor with screen door effect up close. check the second pic here
http://www.overclock.net/t/1244273/...7-led-2560x1440-wqhd-s-ips-quad-hd-monitor/10
 
yes discouraging.

tradeoffs.

I did a look last night to see what the ultrascans of dell had, plus other monitors. every single one of them has tradeoff problems.

if i buy a crt on ebay, well i noted that many sites have a "we do not ship" policy, pickup locally only. i can see why, many come from california and the cost of $80....$100 is there, plus a good chance of breakage. plus the pig in a poke.

my videocard is a ATI HD5770. suitable for only a 1080 res.

the dell s2440l looks temping but oh that photo there on that thread showing possible screen door.
the s2740l is a real ips panel with no PMW led flicker. still at 1080.

a large image and i guess i could sit a bit further back.

the catleaps and the other Korean monitors? i suppose i could buy that version that is "preped" for american use. the posts i see says that a hd5770 video card is not good enough, but i dimly recall someone using such a card OK.

*could* i use this card with one of the 27" korean monitors?!

there is no store anymore to *look* at displays. oh bestbuy and office depot have some, but all the cheap tns.

so my small Odyssey continues......

freestone
 
Besides the screendoor effect, are there any issues with your current NEC LCD that bothers you? Did you try sitting further away, adjusting the monitor brightness and windows dpi levels (so fonts are easier to read)?

It's sort of rare for the screendoor issue to be the main cause of someone disliking LCDs. Typically (and was the case for me to), it's something like angle problems, motion blur, IPS glow, poor black levels, AG coating, or even the 16:9 ratio, that tends to bother people. Depending on the panel type you choose, you can at least minimize some of those problems.
 
just decrease the resolution of your 18" CRT (bigger image), something like 1280x960@85hz and let this issue RIP. LCD will give you so many issues you wont know where it starts and where it ends.
 
A 5770 should drive a 2560x1440 monitor with no problem. One of the DVI ports will definitely work, and the displayport would work if the monitor has one.
 
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