SCII: HOTS... Whos excited??

Sixthsense said:
Heh don't remind me, I still have to use corruptors or infestors to counter air.The speed upgrade doesn't even stack on creep
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I noticed that as well. Technically Hydralisks are "Queen-like" where they get a bigger bonus on creep than other Zerg units. I think Blizzard's original vision was for Hydralisks and creeps to synergize in a deadly manner with the 'extra speed'. In practice Hydralisks are just a bit too expensive to be very cost efficient I think.

They're a 'long' (relatively) ranged ground unit in a Zerg ground army composed mainly of shorter ranged units so really the only time they become cost effective is when you're so saturated on the front end that filling out the rear is a good idea (thus began roach hydra).

And a forced a tech path for anti air if your opponent happens to load up on air and you need something ASAP... otherwise queens are better for anti-harassment.

And yes, I would love the SC1 Hydralisk back... obviously ;)
 
The gas requirements are not in line for what it can do and why even bother with the speed upgrade when I'm going to spend for creep spread anyway. With the alignment ability of voids it's going to be an uphill battle for Zerg.
 
Intel_Hydralisk said:
APM is a very raw measure. I'll continue with the sports analogies since it makes the most sense... You need a certain level of raw athleticism in a sport to compete at different levels. That doesn't mean you can rely on it without any skill related to that sport. Chucking up random half court shots because you can, and running full speed at the rim without the ability to finish won't get you anywhere. Similarly if you spam actions without purpose in SC2 then yes it's meaningless, but if you don't have the raw ability to execute enough actions to be competitive at certain levels then that's your hard ceiling.
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I have no jump shot, and I can't dribble worth a shit. I'm still one of the first people picked when it comes to rec/IM basketball.

APM isn't going to make a difference until you are in scenarios where APM makes a difference (I know right?). You aren't going to see those scenarios until you get to Masters level of play. It's probably the least important aspect of the game. Macro play, decision making, reacting to your opponent, scouting and using the information effectively, etc are all WAY more important than your APM. You don't need high APM to do any of those things. You don't need to be able to split and stutter step your marines like MVP to be really freaking good at SC2.

I'm the perfect example. I average 60-100 APM in most games. My APM spikes to 150-200+ on occasion. I went from bronze to gold league in one season, yet my APM never really changed. I don't lose because of my APM. I lose because I let resources pile up. I lose because I didn't build production facilities. I lose because I don't know how to scout and effectively use the information. I lose because I'm not aggressive early. I lose because I get supply blocked. Hell, I don't even know the units/buildings/tech of the other races all that well. I lose for so many reasons, none of which are related to APM.

And you see wasted actions even at the pro level. They have 300+ APM and yet they still get supply blocked, still have idle workers, etc. The APM is just an inflated number that really doesn't matter. Anyone who can type reasonably well is capable of enough APM to be very, very good at Starcraft. Like I said, the reality of it is that your average APM would decrease dramatically as your skill level and game awareness increased IF NOT for spamming. APM spikes would occur in micro intensive scenarios because micro inherently requires more APM.

Don't even think about APM when playing multiplayer SC. It only matters at the very highest levels of play.
 
I find it interesting that a lot of people are so unwilling to spend time practicing to get better at a game. That in itself isn't a bad thing, but a lot of the names I've seen I also see a lot when I troll the PoE and D3 forums. Both of those games have massive time sinks to improve your character, but a lot of that improvement time does nothing to make you a player better.

Coming back to SC2, some how putting effort to get better (which for most people a few hours should yield noticeable results) is unacceptable, but just as many hours grinding ledge or alkaziers act 3 for hours at a time is?
 
Difference with D3 is that its just less competitive...or a different sort of competitiveness. You're trying to make your character the best instead of beating other people and being better than them. Its more of an MMO feel, even if you aren't very good, enough persistence will get you close to some of our goals. Whereas SC2 is more of a sports like feel, it is you vs 1 or a few others on a ranked ladder. Personally, I'm not very competitive and it just doesn't interest me to spend time to try to beat other people.
 
Intel_Hydralisk said:
I think overall a lot of missions were very forgettable to me since they made Brutal so easy... It also ended kind of abruptly I think. They really loaded on the achievements though. I figured I'd go back and get all the achievements but the list is gigantic. It also doesn't help that for the first ~15 missions I was disconnected from Bnet (and didn't realize it) so I missed a ton of achievements that you 'naturally' get (i.e. talk to all the people on the leviathan). I'll have to start a new campaign completely rather than just do the mission archive mode... Kind of bummed me out.
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Yeah I disconnected from bnet for 1 of the missions and didn't get credit from it either, but I stopped playing when I realized it lol. I'm probably going to go back to pick up leftover achievements that can be done on normal, give Brutal a once-over and probably try the "Mastery" achievements on Hard (aka take the path of least resistance :p). Some of them look pretty challenging.

Overall, even though I liked the storytelling HotS a tiny bit better than WoL, my impression of the game was that it definitely felt less polished and fleshed-out primarily due to the absence of fun things to do outside of the missions. In WoL, you had various interactive non-NPC objects (including a jukebox that changes the background music), more rooms (which were all beautifully decorated), mercs, a mini-game, news updates and so on. In HotS you have like 2 rooms, one which changes depending on the zone you're in, and various NPCs that come and go... that's about it. It felt pretty empty.
 
Breath_of_the_Dying said:
I find it interesting that a lot of people are so unwilling to spend time practicing to get better at a game. That in itself isn't a bad thing, but a lot of the names I've seen I also see a lot when I troll the PoE and D3 forums. Both of those games have massive time sinks to improve your character, but a lot of that improvement time does nothing to make you a player better.

Coming back to SC2, some how putting effort to get better (which for most people a few hours should yield noticeable results) is unacceptable, but just as many hours grinding ledge or alkaziers act 3 for hours at a time is?
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I put quite a bit of time into SC2 when I first started.

The thing is that no matter what, SC2 and other games are still just games. There are "pro" leagues and all that jazz, but in the end they're just video games. I play video games for enjoyment, relaxation, whatever. The problem is, I'm a highly competitive individual. I hate losing. You can't "lose" games like PoE or D3. There is no skill involved. When skill is invovled as it is in SC2, it awakens the competitive nature inside me which makes me frustrated when I lose. Sure, I COULD put lots of time in to keep getting better and I usually do waste a lot of time doing just that. So I play SC2 until I finally realize I'm wasting my time on a game that offers more frustration than enjoyment. If I want frustration, I can do many more meaningful tasks in the real world that offer real benefits when you over come those frustrations. Being a better SC2 player does absolutely nothing for you other than make you a better video game player.

So yea, I generally prefer to play games that require little or no skill simply because "practicing" video games is a waste of time. "Playing" video games is also a waste of time, but I find it fun and relaxing.

People make analogies to sports and such, but anyone who puts video games on the same level as sports is, in my opinion, completely out of their mind.
 
big_aug said:
I put quite a bit of time into SC2 when I first started.

The thing is that no matter what, SC2 and other games are still just games. There are "pro" leagues and all that jazz, but in the end they're just video games. I play video games for enjoyment, relaxation, whatever. The problem is, I'm a highly competitive individual. I hate losing. You can't "lose" games like PoE or D3. There is no skill involved. When skill is invovled as it is in SC2, it awakens the competitive nature inside me which makes me frustrated when I lose. Sure, I COULD put lots of time in to keep getting better and I usually do waste a lot of time doing just that. So I play SC2 until I finally realize I'm wasting my time on a game that offers more frustration than enjoyment. If I want frustration, I can do many more meaningful tasks in the real world that offer real benefits when you over come those frustrations. Being a better SC2 player does absolutely nothing for you other than make you a better video game player.

So yea, I generally prefer to play games that require little or no skill simply because "practicing" video games is a waste of time. "Playing" video games is also a waste of time, but I find it fun and relaxing.

People make analogies to sports and such, but anyone who puts video games on the same level as sports is, in my opinion, completely out of their mind.
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Agree with this 100%. I didn't play too much SC2 MP because I quickly saw that I would need to spend a significant amount of time researching the game and strategy and even more practicing actually implementing it. And as I'm competitive too, I don't enjoy losing, particularly badly early on. I also don't like the frantic nature of trying to keep everything going; I think I'd much prefer a turn based RTS where it's based on your strategy only, not the speed of your mouse.
 
See, I'm really competitive and like using video games as an outlet for that, because I just feel it has a whole lot of practical upsides vs. say...playing in my local intramural league.

I practice (not SC2, I quit because I burned out quick, but playing lots of CSGO and Dota 2) just to play better games, I get a lot of enjoyment out of a really close, tense game, and the best way to find those games is to play well and get into groups, or matchmaking pools, with higher skilled people.

I can barely play single player games anymore, that feels more like a waste of time to me, than spending a couple hours practicing my aim in CSGO. Slot machine games like Diablo and Borderlands get grow stale quickly for me.

If it's not skill based, I'm usually not even interested in a game anymore...
 
Casus said:
See, I'm really competitive and like using video games as an outlet for that, because I just feel it has a whole lot of practical upsides vs. say...playing in my local intramural league.

I practice (not SC2, I quit because I burned out quick, but playing lots of CSGO and Dota 2) just to play better games, I get a lot of enjoyment out of a really close, tense game, and the best way to find those games is to play well and get into groups, or matchmaking pools, with higher skilled people.

I can barely play single player games anymore, that feels more like a waste of time to me, than spending a couple hours practicing my aim in CSGO. Slot machine games like Diablo and Borderlands get grow stale quickly for me.

If it's not skill based, I'm usually not even interested in a game anymore...
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Like sitting on your ass and eating cheetos? :p
 
Is MP all about rushing in SC2? I used to play C&C and Red Alert 3 MP a lot and always hated when people did that. I'm more into building a big base and have epic battles with a huge armee.

I'm new to SC2 and still debating whether to get it or not but there are no other good RTS games with a very active community at the moment, End of Nations got canceled or delayed to an unknown date, C&C Generals 2 not coming any time soon either. Anno 2070 was great but the terrible AI made skirmish battles pointless it and its hard to find people for combat based gameplay in it.

Is SC2 alright to play at 1440p graphic-wise? I understand the very close camera zoom and limitation is because of esports fairness but I found it a bit offputting from what I saw in videos.
 
Milena said:
Is MP all about rushing in SC2? I used to play C&C and Red Alert 3 MP a lot and always hated when people did that. I'm more into building a big base and have epic battles with a huge armee.

I'm new to SC2 and still debating whether to get it or not but there are no other good RTS games with a very active community at the moment, End of Nations got canceled or delayed to an unknown date, C&C Generals 2 not coming any time soon either. Anno 2070 was great but the terrible AI made skirmish battles pointless it and its hard to find people for combat based gameplay in it.

Is SC2 alright to play at 1440p graphic-wise? I understand the very close camera zoom and limitation is because of esports fairness but I found it a bit offputting from what I saw in videos.
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If you prefer base building and huge armies, SC2 is definitely not for you.
 
Just ordered my first copy for little bro. Gonna hold it over him and get a free car wash out of it. :D
 
has anybody had any crashes? its crashed several times for me. like 5, and one time crazy wild artifacts covered the screen, never seen anything like it.. cept when i played bf3 on my 460 768 mb hahha
 
huxley said:
I wouldn't tell him that the game isn't for him. He just needs a casual audience or friends to play with.
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Yea I was going to ask if base building and longer battles are not encouraged by game design or by the way the MP community is playing. I'm probably starting SC2 with a few friends in MP until I get better.
 
Milena said:
Yea I was going to ask if base building and longer battles are not encouraged by game design or by the way the MP community is playing. I'm probably starting SC2 with a few friends in MP until I get better.
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Games tend to get longer the higher skilled the players are.

Someone in a lower league won't know how to stop, or simply doesn't have the skill to stop a lot of different rushes.
As you move up in leagues people know how to stop them and they become less viable so people tend to use less aggressive strategies.
When you get to the pro level the players know how to stop nearly everything and you'll often see each player get 3 bases and nearly maxed out armies before any major engagements occur.

Games between lesser skilled players can still last a long time and people will build up huge armies. But this is usually because they don't see the flaws in each other's play and the openings to attack earlier on in the game.

I'm a high masters fyi.
 
Milena said:
Is MP all about rushing in SC2? I used to play C&C and Red Alert 3 MP a lot and always hated when people did that. I'm more into building a big base and have epic battles with a huge armee.
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do yourself a favor and skip sc2. try supreme commander instead. to a sc2 player, an army is often like 20 units - it's silly. since you were into c&c, the arcadish feel of the game and camera shouldn't bother you though.
 
Wow I'm getting owned lol. Those spider / widow mines are insane, First I thought it was one time deal like banelings, but man lol fun fun fun
 
big_aug said:
Like sitting on your ass and eating cheetos? :p
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There's plenty of ass sitting and cheeto time in every activity, physical or not. :rolleyes:

More like: I get to dip into a massive pool of like minded individuals, instead of trying to round up 9 other real people. Minimal set up time. Easy to pick up, play, and put down. Fast, rarely will anything last more than an hour. Not seasonal. Not weather dependent.
 
MP is not all about rushes but you can't expect people to not early rush or do timing attacks throughout the game. As you play and gain experience you'll learn how to fend off rushes timing attacks and control how the match goes. A lot f the best macro players in the world know how to get their opponent to do what they want. There will be bumps along the way. You'll need to do some research and also play to gain experience. For instance you'll learn that if you are being cannon rushed you need to pull 4 workers to kill the pylon before it finishes and kill the probe so it can't build more stuff. By this time you should have basic attacking units to help.
I'm a competative person and i love this game. Mainly because i can better my skills through practice. It's all on me. You're going to lose but you have to take those experiences and learn from them. Every time you lose watch the replay and see what happened. In tme you'll be able to analyze and correct your mistakes. It also helps you learn what to look for when you scout in game. I think people who get frustrated because they lose need to realize it's in their control to get better. Those loses are the best way to improve. Being competative doesn't mean you always win. It means you strive to better yourself through competition. Most people confuse being competative with being upset at losing. If you don't have the drive to get through loses and avoid a game because of it you're just a sore loser.
 
Whoever is up for some 1v1's.. I'd be down (granted, I'm nowhere near what I used to be.. haven't played sc2 in a damn long time).

PM me or let me know if interested!! I wanna get back into this!
 
dremic said:
has anybody had any crashes? its crashed several times for me. like 5, and one time crazy wild artifacts covered the screen, never seen anything like it.. cept when i played bf3 on my 460 768 mb hahha
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I had a BSOD in the first mission. I updated to the latest AMD beta drivers and haven't had any issues.
 
Milena said:
Yea I was going to ask if base building and longer battles are not encouraged by game design or by the way the MP community is playing. I'm probably starting SC2 with a few friends in MP until I get better.
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It's the same with all RTS games. It's pressure filled tit for tat. I'm the same way, I prefer to sit back, build huge armies and turtle in. That is why I usually play with a friend against computer players. I just enjoy it more that way (Same with Age of Empires 2, play with a friend or two against a bunch of computer players, tons of fun). I don't get much joy from beating someone else...plus its stressful.
 
Milena said:
Is MP all about rushing in SC2? I used to play C&C and Red Alert 3 MP a lot and always hated when people did that. I'm more into building a big base and have epic battles with a huge armee.
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It varies at the different levels. All strategies can be viable in SC2. Much like the fool's mate in Chess, it will work against novices and people who don't know what's going on, but once you get to the higher levels rushes are much less effective mainly because to get there you have learned how to defeat them.
 
Finally found the more challenging objectives, although its very stupid to access them. I've only completed a few masters challenges (requires hard difficulty) but I have to go through like 3 loading screens to get to my profile to access them.
 
Thanks everyone, i'm trying to get into it. So far the game is fun and i'm playing the campaign first. The graphics look really dated but gameplay makes up for that.
 
dgz said:
You're so competitive, you'd rather not play at all.

Liked the turn-based RTS bit as well. Perfect example of rationalization gone too far.

Please don't report me again for calling you out.
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I just lost 5 in a row. I hate the game right now. It's not fun at all. That's what happens when you care if you win or lose (aka - being competetitive). It's time to uninstall the game again as I've come to my senses. I'm wasting my time trying to get better at a video game LOL

That's not rationalization. That's reality.


Casus said:
There's plenty of ass sitting and cheeto time in every activity, physical or not. :rolleyes:

More like: I get to dip into a massive pool of like minded individuals, instead of trying to round up 9 other real people. Minimal set up time. Easy to pick up, play, and put down. Fast, rarely will anything last more than an hour. Not seasonal. Not weather dependent.
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Actually, physical activities are all about NOT sitting on your ass. Sounds like rationalization gone too far and pure laziness.

Anyways, I'm trolling. I couldn't help myself.
 
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big_aug said:
I just lost 5 in a row. I hate the game right now. It's not fun at all. That's what happens when you care if you win or lose (aka - being competetitive). It's time to uninstall the game again as I've come to my senses. I'm wasting my time trying to get better at a video game LOL

That's not rationalization. That's reality.
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I mean, if your only enjoyment in a game is winning against other players and you keep losing, then that's fine; you aren't going to enjoy the game. Fact is, in most player vs player games, 1/2 the people win and 1/2 the people lose (except in games that are set up to have more winners or losers, i.e. in a ffa there's only 1 winner and many losers). On average if you can't stand losing half the time then you shouldn't play a player vs. player game. If you must always win, then you should find a game where you can somehow play against weaker players the majority of the time. If you're losing the majority of the time in SC2 with how the match making works, then you're on the lower end of the skill spectrum and will continue to lose until the system finds your true skill level.

Personally I haven't played a single ladder game so far in HOTS and I'm enjoying everything else the game has to offer.

Contradiction in terms, doesn't make sense.
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Hah... you're right.
 
just finished, pretty awesome. enjoyed the story and i cant wait to see what happens in the final expansion.
 
Intel_Hydralisk said:
I mean, if your only enjoyment in a game is winning against other players and you keep losing, then that's fine; you aren't going to enjoy the game. Fact is, in most player vs player games, 1/2 the people win and 1/2 the people lose (except in games that are set up to have more winners or losers, i.e. in a ffa there's only 1 winner and many losers). On average if you can't stand losing half the time then you shouldn't play a player vs. player game. If you must always win, then you should find a game where you can somehow play against weaker players the majority of the time. If you're losing the majority of the time in SC2 with how the match making works, then you're on the lower end of the skill spectrum and will continue to lose until the system finds your true skill level.

Personally I haven't played a single ladder game so far in HOTS and I'm enjoying everything else the game has to offer.


Hah... you're right.
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I can't stand losing in SC2. It doesn't bother me in other games. It is almost certainly because it's 1v1 against another human player with extended match times. I know exactly how the matching works. I suck at the game yet I play it and don't try to get better so I continue to be frustrated by it. I eventually learn my lesson and uninstall. Trust me, I've gone through the exact same process several times.

The single player is the most boring thing I've ever experienced. Even multiplayer is kind of boring. I just don't have any other good games to play really.
 
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big_aug said:
I can't stand losing in SC2. It doesn't bother me in other games. It is almost certainly because it's 1v1 against another human player with extended match times. I know exactly how the matching works. I suck at the game yet I play it and don't try to get better so I continue to be frustrated by it. I eventually learn my lesson and uninstall. Trust me, I've gone through the exact same process several times.

The single player is the most boring thing I've ever experienced. Even multiplayer is kind of boring. I just don't have any other good games to play really.
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Play some team games, and leave 1v1's behind. I think I've played about 10-15 1's in all of WoL, and the rest has been mostly 3's and 4's. 2's are fun too, but I think you might get frustrated with them as well, whereas 3's and 4's are just silly fun ;)
 
About a third of the way through masters achievements, they're much more challenging than playing some of the brutal missions. On some of them you really need to know the map to hit the time limits. It does help having a more-powerful-than-first-play-through kerrigan on the missions, but even them I'm down to the final 10 seconds on some of the achievements.

Having tons of fun with them, will probably complete everything but kerrigan achievements before really going MP.
 
big_aug said:
I just lost 5 in a row. I hate the game right now. It's not fun at all. That's what happens when you care if you win or lose (aka - being competetitive). It's time to uninstall the game again as I've come to my senses. I'm wasting my time trying to get better at a video game LOL

That's not rationalization. That's reality.
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You realize you sound like a spoil sport right?




Actually, physical activities are all about NOT sitting on your ass. Sounds like rationalization gone too far and pure laziness.

Anyways, I'm trolling. I couldn't help myself.
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Hear me out man, for shits and giggles :D

Football: You've got down time on offense/defense, or in backyard you're probably taking plenty of beer breaks.

Baseball: Uh, yeah.

Golf: Ohhhhh yeah.

Basketball: Helps my argument the least, but still highlights breaks of play.

Pool: Totally.

Darts: Hell yeah.

So even any actual physical activity that involves competing is probably going to have a lot more fat asses than me.
 
Abathur reminds me of that robot from the Animatrix. The one that makes the human UN sign the peace treaty and then blows up the building...even has a similar look with the man small hands/pincers.
 
big_aug said:
I can't stand losing in SC2. It doesn't bother me in other games. It is almost certainly because it's 1v1 against another human player with extended match times. I know exactly how the matching works. I suck at the game yet I play it and don't try to get better so I continue to be frustrated by it. I eventually learn my lesson and uninstall. Trust me, I've gone through the exact same process several times.

The single player is the most boring thing I've ever experienced. Even multiplayer is kind of boring. I just don't have any other good games to play really.
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Not to be offensive, but you sound like the kind of person that just doesn't really enjoy anything.
 
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