Remember in 2015 we will turn it around... #nopreorders

Arct1c0n said:
Your forgetting people want instant satisfaction/results, and having to sell via ebay/craiglist takes too long/work. People are impatient and would much rather have trade in done instantly at a place like Gamestop, even if they know better. Thats just modern society now.

Hell, I know I could sell my games for a better price via craiglist locally or ship them, but honestly, the time and work involved simply isn't worth it, I value my time more nowadays being older then get a few extra bucks out of a physical item. But hey, do as you wish, and i'll do mine
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or because people aren't cheap skates and don't nickel and dime everything.
There are many other things we consumers waste our money on.
 
Eshelmen said:
So ONLY games with extremely high replay value are considered GOOD games? (100+ hours)
I heavily disagree with this statement.

There are numerous amount of games that are considered gems and being under 15-20 hours to finish.



From Resident Evil to the Last of Us.

From Bioshock to Half-Life 2.

From Vampire Masquerade to Splinter Cell

From Sonic to Mech Warrior

From Goldeneye to Syphon Filter

So many to list!


I don't see the point in keeping a game that I've lost interest in.
When I beat a game, I'm done with it. I don't like replaying the same thing over and over again. But that's me.

I'd prefer to get some money back on something I wont use again, than let it sit and attract dust.( And I'm not worried about losing a few bucks to other selling tools, I always buy my games from my local Gamestop, and I dont mind spending extra on them.)
My local gamestop has the best and funniest employees I can ever ask for. This adds value and social entertainent verse always relying on the internet and being a lurker.
As for your Civ game, RPGS, RTS, MMOs will always have higher play time involved. But doesn't make them the only choice to enjoy a game.
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I couldn't agree more. About 4 years ago a gamestop opened just down the street from where I live. I've been using it ever since and have had great experiences. I'm the same way once I'm done with a game I don't usually play it anymore, so I trade it towards something I want. Usually by the time I ever get the itch to replay a game, lately there has been a remastered version and I just get that one.

When I was younger teens and 20s I had no money and plenty of time. Well I'm in my 30s and I have more money and less time. For me 15-20 hours is plenty, I'm also ok with games that are 6-10 hours long if they're good. If anything I prefer them to be shorter in most cases.
 
Ducman69 said:
Then you should kick yourself for buying such a shitty game that it has so little gameplay value, lol! I think Steam says I've played Civ5 for 315 hours or something that I bought for $30! :D

Besides, if we're talking master-race platform, there's usually either expansions or sweet mods that can keep a game fresh.
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How is game lasting someone 2 weeks a shitty game? I'd rather have quality over quantity. For me I'm done with most of the games after 2-3 weeks.
 
I really have no sympathy for "power players" who sit for 8-12 hours at a time and plow through games within a few days and then bitch about how "short" the game is :rolleyes:

Get a fucking life/full time job
 
Arct1c0n said:
I really have no sympathy for "power players" who sit for 8-12 hours at a time and plow through games within a few days and then bitch about how "short" the game is :rolleyes:

Get a fucking life/full time job
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Who, what, where?
 
I support this too after getting burnt on preordering simcity.
 
Hi All

I too support this thread/movement.

Question, why are there very few demos from the companies. There use to be a lot more demos of games so you'd have a idea of what the game would be like.
 
DPI said:
Just preordered GTA5 on GMG.

tumblr_m95svb0l0y1rziwwco1_250.gif
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I'll just wait until release day and obtain it about ~4-12 hours after you have. Because I don't like giving away money interest free. :eek:

Preorders made some sense before everything went digital. I have no idea why people still do it. It's not like the preorder content they include is ever any good.
 
jtm55 said:
Hi All

I too support this thread/movement.

Question, why are there very few demos from the companies. There use to be a lot more demos of games so you'd have a idea of what the game would be like.
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Exactly. I know some piraters who pirate the game, then if they like it, buy it. They get pissed off that they have to spend $50 a year on a VPN though, and occasionally just play the pirated game instead to make up for it.

With demos, this wouldn't happen. Where the hell did they go?
 
dark_reign said:
Indie games. I can't remember the last time I saw a demo from a triple A game. Back in the late '90s they were everywhere.
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Evil Within had a demo, if you want to count that as a AAA release. Prior to that one ummm...Something.
 
Derangel said:
Evil Within had a demo, if you want to count that as a AAA release. Prior to that one ummm...Something.
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Yeah, I forgot about that one. They do exist but there's very few of them these days. But with gameplays on YouTube it's not a huge deal. One could argue it's not the same as playing the game but at least you know what to expect before buying. It has saved me a ton of money.
 
dark_reign said:
Yeah, I forgot about that one. They do exist but there's very few of them these days. But with gameplays on YouTube it's not a huge deal. One could argue it's not the same as playing the game but at least you know what to expect before buying. It has saved me a ton of money.
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Back in the demo tons of demos were exclusive to various PC magazines so you had to pay to get them. There weren't a ton released to everyone on the net, well at least not released by the publishers plenty found their way online.

I think the rise of Let's Player and Youtube personalities has contributed a bit to the fall of demos. Just give someone like Pewdiepie, TB, JesseCox, etc early access to the game or a preview build and boom instant mass hype. No need for companies to spend money on demos when they can get free promotion.
 
Don't tell me what the fuck to do/not do with my own money.

I just went and preordered Resident Evil Remake because of this post.
 
staknhalo said:
Don't tell me what the fuck to do/not do with my own money.

I just went and preordered Resident Evil Remake because of this post.
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You should pre-order more games right now!!! DO IT! I said f'n DO IT! And if you better not DARE cancel your Resident Evil pre-order or so help me.... :mad:
 
Ducman69 said:
You should pre-order more games right now!!! DO IT! I said f'n DO IT! And if you better not DARE cancel your Resident Evil pre-order or so help me.... :mad:
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If I see any other preorders that I want, or any that I fell offer me a good incentive to preorder, I damn well will! :)
 
staknhalo said:
If I see any other preorders that I want, or any that I fell offer me a good incentive to preorder, I damn well will! :)
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Good. For a second there I thought you might have the balls to disobey what I told you to do.
 
staknhalo said:
Don't tell me what the fuck to do/not do with my own money.

I just went and preordered Resident Evil Remake because of this post.
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Whoa, got an internet badass over here... :rolleyes:

You go ahead and pre-order potentially shitty ports, that'll teach them not to keep making them.
 
All I can say it is about time you guys get this through your heads. Fail and I fought this battle for over a year awhile back and pretty much every single person on this forum was for pre-orders. Pretty sad to see how much you got fucked over before you all started to see how bad it was getting.
 
I guess my thing is, what's the point of pre-ordering?

Is the fear that it won't be in stock when you want it?

It all seems a little stupid to me
 
Bdonedge said:
I guess my thing is, what's the point of pre-ordering?

Is the fear that it won't be in stock when you want it?

It all seems a little stupid to me
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Depends on the game:

Multiplayer - this type of game could make the most sense for preordering since people want to get characters leveled in RPGs, join with guilds, etc ... in shooters they want to get into the fray quickly

Single player - this is usually about the preorder bonuses ... unless you have a window to play this game specifically at launch that you don't want to miss (it is launching during your vacation or something) you can play the game whenever and there is no competitive element that requires day 1 participation (like with the multiplayer) ... if the bonus is attractive (extra levels, extra abilities, extra items like soundtracks or making of videos, etc) then one might jump on the preorder wagon to get the items ... although many here eschew the beta bandwagon, that can be an attractive preorder bonus for certain gamers as well

Crowd funding - this is usually about trying to get the developers to make something you think the general market is not offering ... the action RPG market is kind of hit and miss so I jumped on the Grim Dawn sponsor wagon in 2012 (I have been happy with their work to date and consider it money well spent) ... the isometric RPG is dead to the general publishers so I sponsored the Pillars of Eternity and Torment projects to help their developers deliver a quality product in that segment (with Eternity launching in a couple of months and Torment progressing I am satisfied with those investments as well)

Physical discs - with the PC market now being about 90%+ digital, to guarantee the availability of a physical copy you might have to preorder (as there are fewer and fewer of those available at launch or after)

Now a single player preorder with no bonus and no discount that one cannot play for months after the launch, that would certainly be senseless ;)
 
kbrickley said:
Depends on the game:
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We live in the digital age with online distribution.

1) When the game is released, its released to everyone, preorder or not. You literally save zero time downloading the game via pre-order than you do downloading on launch day without pre-ordering.

2) If you purchased a physical copy of the game with pre-order, you are still likely to get it after someone that downloaded it on launch day, since they can download as soon as the game goes live but you have to wait for the mailman to deliver it on launch day.

Nobody is waiting in line at Gamestop wrapping around the store hoping they will be able to get the game at launch before it sells out. That's not the reality in the digital world.

Now many developers do give out "trinkets", but they are generally of next to no value.

And you have to ask yourself, why are they pushing pre-orders so hard? What is the advantage to the developer over people buying it after it launches? The answer is pretty obvious, because they can spend a crapton on marketing to get a lot of people to buy a game sight unseen, with virtually zero chance of being refunded if the game sucks. And what does it cost them? Usually nothing as they give you some worthless DLC or something else digital of no value like fake in-game currency or an in-game costume or something. In the instances you actually get something that costs the developer, like a special box or figurine, you end up paying for it. Meanwhile those that didn't pre-order can see if the game even works properly at launch or not, and pick it up often for much cheaper even weeks down the road (usually within the first week there are vendors that will have the game for sale for far less than $60).

http://kotaku.com/5909105/stop-preordering-video-games-please
There once was a time video game reviews and word of mouth played the most important part in determining the success of a new title. There'd be a chance for either professional critics or like-minded peers to get their hands on a game and tell you whether it's actually worth your time or money. With games being so expensive, those opinions can be - and to be sure, are still in some way (especially word of mouth) - important!

They can also be bad for business if you're in the business of making or selling video games, though, so removing that roadblock is in both the publisher's and retailer's best interests. The cult of preordering is how this is achieved. By getting your commitment to purchase a game in advance, when all you've got to go on is a marketing campaign, you're signalling that you, as a consumer, are totally cool spending $40-$60 on a game simply on the strength of how it's been marketed.\

And it works, with many games tallying up preorder counts in the millions.

Want to know why there aren't any demos anymore? This is why. Want to know why content is withheld from everyone's game and is instead sprinkled across various competing retailers? This is why. Want to know why there's now an accepted norm where those paying more for a game can sometimes gain competitive advantages? This is why. Publishers don't need to sell you on their games, because by slavishly throwing money down before they're even out, you've signalled your intent to take whatever it is they give you
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Which amazes me that there are still people that openly admit that there is more and more of a problem with broken game launches and disagree with media blackouts and the like so you can't even see a review and have negative reviews censored based on nonsensical copyright grounds with free-demos or trial periods now unheard of, and yet they literally help create the problem by continuing to preorder games. If I keep pissing on an electric fence and get a painful shock on my dick every time, I don't get mad at the guy who put up the electric fence, I get mad at myself for not learning my lesson the first time, lol! :D
 
We live in the digital age with online distribution.

1) When the game is released, its released to everyone, preorder or not. You literally save zero time downloading the game via pre-order than you do downloading on launch day without pre-ordering.

2) If you purchased a physical copy of the game with pre-order, you are still likely to get it after someone that downloaded it on launch day, since they can download as soon as the game goes live but you have to wait for the mailman to deliver it on launch day.

Nobody is waiting in line at Gamestop wrapping around the store hoping they will be able to get the game at launch before it sells out. That's not the reality in the digital world.

Now many developers do give out "trinkets", but they are generally of next to no value.

And you have to ask yourself, why are they pushing pre-orders so hard? What is the advantage to the developer over people buying it after it launches? The answer is pretty obvious, because they can spend a crapton on marketing to get a lot of people to buy a game sight unseen, with virtually zero chance of being refunded if the game sucks. And what does it cost them? Usually nothing as they give you some worthless DLC or something else digital of no value like fake in-game currency or an in-game costume or something. In the instances you actually get something that costs the developer, like a special box or figurine, you end up paying for it. Meanwhile those that didn't pre-order can see if the game even works properly at launch or not, and pick it up often for much cheaper even weeks down the road (usually within the first week there are vendors that will have the game for sale for far less than $60).
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As I have said earlier, I actually agree that the publisher preorders should be stopped ... if developer preorders help break us out of the publisher model then that might be a good thing ... In the last 3 years or so I have only preordered 3 games (D3 and Reaper of Souls for the collectors editions with the books/soundtracks, etc ... and Might and Magic Heroes VI for the beta testing access) ... I have found no other games worth a preorder or Day 1 purchase

The best way to break out of the preorder paradigm is for gamers to step back on these super high budget titles ... 40 million or 50 million for a game is ridiculously high and perpetuates the publisher model ... if we were more accepting of titles in the 1-5 million range then we could eliminate the need for most publishers (who have the deep pockets for multimillion dollar funding) ... as long as we continue to support these multimillion dollar titles there will be a massive marketing push for preorders and mass appeal titles

These days it is the console gamer (not the PC gamer) who is driving most of the preordering as well ... I think the PC gamer is a little pickier and discriminating than their console counterparts
 
kbrickley said:
As I have said earlier, I actually agree that the publisher preorders should be stopped ... if developer preorders help break us out of the publisher model then that might be a good thing ... In the last 3 years or so I have only preordered 3 games (D3 and Reaper of Souls for the collectors editions with the books/soundtracks, etc ... and Might and Magic Heroes VI for the beta testing access) ... I have found no other games worth a preorder or Day 1 purchase

The best way to break out of the preorder paradigm is for gamers to step back on these super high budget titles ... 40 million or 50 million for a game is ridiculously high and perpetuates the publisher model ... if we were more accepting of titles in the 1-5 million range then we could eliminate the need for most publishers (who have the deep pockets for multimillion dollar funding) ... as long as we continue to support these multimillion dollar titles there will be a massive marketing push for preorders and mass appeal titles

These days it is the console gamer (not the PC gamer) who is driving most of the preordering as well ... I think the PC gamer is a little pickier and discriminating than their console counterparts
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A lot of people are accepting of the cheaper indie titles, that's why there has been a huge shift in the industry in the last few years. However a lot of people also like those big budget AAA titles. I don't think the AAA market can sustain itself forever, maybe not even all that much longer with the way things are going, but it's still worth supporting the handful of good AAA games that do release. There is a major issue with the indie/small studio market though and on the PC that problem is Steam. Outside of the big indie darling titles it is very hard to sort through the mountain of shit released all the time. Beyond that the indie market is no better than the AAA market when it comes to bad marketing tactics, downright lying while advertising, and jumping on the latest trend to appeal to the mass market. Look at the dozens of zombie survival games, all the MOBAs, the retro platformers, etc. I've entirely given up looking at most indie games now days unless they come up highly recommended by people, it's not worth the effort to weed through the crap.
 
I have no problem with AAA titles, or even their ridiculously huge budgets, which is inevitable as the player base grows and more and more people are getting their entertainment through gaming than say television or movies (which is a lot more mentally stimulating anyway). After all, even really bad movies like Robocop had a $110 million budget, which makes gaming budgets look like nothing.

You can do a lot with a big budget, and I don't mind having fewer better games, and paying for them, as long as it has the right paying scheme that keeps a level playing field and ensuring that the money is spent on the game and its proper development before release to ensure it doesn't get BAD REVIEWS which dictate its flop/success, rather than spending it on MARKETING and getting a huge percentage of the total profit of the game all in pre-orders at which point you're not really even selling a game, you're selling the IDEA of a game. And since its a non-refundable idea, once you buy in, why does it matter how it reviews and plays or is supported long term? Hence the epic-fail of the pre-order business model we have dug for ourselves.
 
Bdonedge said:
I guess my thing is, what's the point of pre-ordering?

Is the fear that it won't be in stock when you want it?

It all seems a little stupid to me
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Depends I have my own reasons for preordering. Things like collector's edition of the game could be limited and sometimes they don't save any for the non preorders.

My reasons are if its a game I'm going to get day one why not preorder it and get whatever extras come with the preorder. I like to put my money down early, then when it comes out its paid already for me. It works well for me when it comes to the holiday release games they're already paid, and it doesn't affect my budget for the holidays.

That is just my reasons its been working well for me the past few years. I also haven't had a bad experience from preordering a game in the past 10 years or so.
 
Ur_Mom said:
I have that! My wife got it for me for Christmas last year from Amazon for $9.00. :D Game was shit, and it went on sale quick.
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The closet thing I can compare that to is like owning a piece of nazi memorabilia. Like theres really no justifiable reason to have it other than owning a piece of terrible history.
 
I honestly don't see the purpose in pre-ordering MOST games. I still do it, but only if it's for stuff that has some kind of limited edition like Majora's mask with the skull kid, xenoblade, etc. Otherwise, games are so common these days that you can walk in and pick it up WITHOUT a pre-order unless you're going to Gamestop.
 
if you're definitely planning on buying a game then there's no harm with pre-ordering...in fact it might benefit you...people don't buy games based on pre-order goodies, that's just a bonus...they have to be interested in the base game...so in reality this #nopreorder movement is silly...you buy games based on the game not the preorder...change the hashtag to #nogames
 
polonyc2 said:
if you're definitely planning on buying a game then there's no harm with pre-ordering...in fact it might benefit you...people don't buy games based on pre-order goodies, that's just a bonus...they have to be interested in the base game...so in reality this #nopreorder movement is silly...you buy games based on the game not the preorder...change the hashtag to #nogames
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There is a ton of harm. I seriously can't believe you don't think any harm is done. Think about it then come back with a response.
 
Youn said:
Why do they pre-order then? Are people afraid they'll forget to buy the game later or something?
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pre-ordering can mean 2 months before the game comes out or 2 hours before...no difference...I recommened waiting as long as possible but it's still technically a pre-order
 
Climber said:
There is a ton of harm. I seriously can't believe you don't think any harm is done. Think about it then come back with a response.
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This. Every preorder just means the game is going to suck that much more. But whatever, I just end up wasting $0 on those games. But I'd still like some good games to come out once in a while. I really do miss the days when reviews of the final product determined the success of a game. At least publishers had to try a little bit back then.
 
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