Questions and concerns regarding HTPCs & More..

[PrometheuSBoxeR]

Disclaimer: Please forgive me ahead of time, I already know I may ask some very dumb questions – or make a dumb statement. I honestly wouldn’t ask the question if I wasn’t sure about the answer.

I recently have acquired the “itch” to build a HTPC and/or a WHS for Media Storage. I’ve done a lot of reading and research trying to absorb all the knowledge and information I can from multiple sources. One of the major sources, being here. Being relatively new to it all (I am just your typical PC video-gamer) I am still left with some questions, concerns, and a few misunderstandings. I’m hoping in creating this thread - I can get the answers to most, if not all of them.

1) Goals

a. I want to be able to store all my movies, music, photos, documents in a centralized location (server?) with access to them through any computer (personal and HTPC, and iPhone) on the network.
b. I want to be able to browse/view/edit/save files (Microsoft Office files mostly) from any location (ie: friends house in another state). I want to think of it as a massive USB flash drive that doesn’t move, but I can use it from any computer with proper access.
c. Rip my blu-ray and non blu-ray movies onto the server and watch them at a later time without the disk from my TV/stereo system HTPC.
d. Record HDTV onto the server and watch the shows my TV/stereo system HTPC.
e. Watch HDTV through the HTPC (while recording another channel if I choose)
f. Listen to my music collection through the stereo system via remote from the server.
g. Download a video from my personal computer, store it to the server, and be able to easily access and watch it through my TV.
h. Browse the internet via wireless mouse/keyboard through TV.​

So I guess a good first question, are all my goals achievable by building a home server, and a HTPC hooked up to my TV/stereo system?

2) Connections

a. I’m still not exactly sure on how WHS are connected to the HTPC/network. Is everything done wirelessly? Ethernet? Should the WHS be next to/near the HTPC due to connectivity concerns?
b. If my goal is to have a TV/home stereo/HTPC/WHS, what gets connected to what and via what?
c. It’s my basic understanding - I will have a TV with a AV Receiver hooked up to the via HDMI (through newer receivers). A subwoofer, center speaker, front right, front left, back left, back right hooked up to the AV Receiver. A HTPC with graphics card connected to the TV, and the motherboard sound (onboard) connected to the AV Receiver. The WHS is then connected to the HTPC, serving as a hub for the HTPC to “play” whatever is on the server through the TV/speakers whether it’s music/movies etc.
d. Overall, I just want to grasp the whole understanding of how everything syncs together. I am trying to visualize the big picture.
​

3) Windows Home Server

a. It’s my understanding a WHS is basically boiled down to a home computer, usually with lots of storage, a less than stellar CPU, integrated graphics/cheap graphics, decent RAM, running Windows Home Server operating system.
b. I am unsure of the other options if WHS is not the best, Linux based servers? NAS? I don’t really know the difference even after looking them up. Particularly NAS vs. WHS.​

4) HTPC

a. What is needed to use a wireless remote control? I read a few things regarding IR Receivers? I couldn’t find out what the acronym IR stood for or how it works.​

I’m sure I’ll be asking more questions or looking for clarification as the discussion goes on, but for now. This is all I can think of. I appreciate any time, energy, and insight you put into helping me.

Thanks,
PrometheuSBoxeR

 

[Dangman]

Yes your goals are achievable. But it will take some hurdles for Goals D and E:
- What kind of HDTV are you talking about? As in your local HD channles or the premium HD content like ESPN, Showtime, etc.
- What cable provider do you have now.

Connect the WHS to the network/router/switch via ethernet at all costs. If possible have the HTPC connected to the router/switch/netowrk via ethernet as well. If you can't, try to move the wireless router/adapter/access point to the HTPC as possible. In addition for HDTV, try to use Wireless N for optimal connection speeds.

Goal i of number 2 is fairly close but needs some modification: Many of the newer GPUs can output audio via HDMI as well. As such, you don't necessarily need to connect the motherboard sound to the AV reciever unless your reciever doesn't support audio via HDMI.

WHS is a file server OS. Occasionally the term "file server" is interchangeable with NAS.

For file serving duties, there is no "best" file server OS out there. It's usually depends on how/why the file server OS fits/appeals to the user. The more common relatively cheap/easy options now are:
- Windows Home Sever (there's a 120day trial available)
- Windows Home Server Vail (beta and therefore you won't be able to transform it into a full fledged system)
- FreeNas
- FreeBSD ZFS Fileserver using the Mesa interface
- Linux with Webmin and/or MDADM software RAID

Lesser common and/or more expensive options are:
- UnRAID
- FlexRAID
- Windows 2k8 or 2k3 with a true hardware RAID controller.

So basically what it boils down to is this: Which OS do you feel comfortable with for your file server.

IR stands for Infrared or Infrared Receiver

 

[Activate: AMD]

Everything Danny Bui said is pretty good. Like he said in regards to your second point, the WHS is just a server on your network. Anything that has access to your LAN/router would have access to the WHS. Media playback would be streaming over the LAN to the HTPC, and for this reason its best to have them wired up together, preferrably over gigabit ethernet. With a properly set up WHS (or other OS home server) you should be able to accomplish all your filesharing/media goals

As for recording shows directly on to the WHS, thats a little tougher, especially if you have cable. In that case you'd need a Ceton CableCard tuner, and they're both expensive and hard to get (the waiting list is hundreds of people long). The supposed SiliconDust cablecard tuner is networked so it'd probably be better in that case, but its pretty much total vaporware at this point. If all you have is OTA, then the HDhomerun might work

 

[PrometheuSBoxeR]

Yes your goals are achievable. But it will take some hurdles for Goals D and E:
- What kind of HDTV are you talking about? As in your local HD channles or the premium HD content like ESPN, Showtime, etc.
- What cable provider do you have now.

Connect the WHS to the network/router/switch via ethernet at all costs. If possible have the HTPC connected to the router/switch/netowrk via ethernet as well. If you can't, try to move the wireless router/adapter/access point to the HTPC as possible. In addition for HDTV, try to use Wireless N for optimal connection speeds.

Goal c of number 2 is fairly close but needs some modification: Many of the newer GPUs can output audio via HDMI as well. As such, you don't necessarily need to connect the motherboard sound to the AV reciever unless your reciever doesn't support audio via HDMI.

WHS is a file server OS. Occasionally the term "file server" is interchangeable with NAS.

For file serving duties, there is no "best" file server OS out there. It's usually depends on how/why the file server OS fits/appeals to the user. The more common relatively cheap/easy options now are:
- Windows Home Sever (there's a 120day trial available)
- Windows Home Server Vail (beta and therefore you won't be able to transform it into a full fledged system)
- FreeNas
- FreeBSD ZFS Fileserver using the Mesa interface
- Linux with Webmin and/or MDADM software RAID

Lesser common and/or more expensive options are:
- UnRAID
- FlexRAID
- Windows 2k8 or 2k3 with a true hardware RAID controller.

So basically what it boils down to is this: Which OS do you feel comfortable with for your file server.

IR stands for Infrared or Infrared Receiver

My current cable provider is Comcast digital cable, I am likely to go to FIOS with Verizon in the near future. I'd be interested in recording just my basic HD TV shows such as Lie To Me off Fox or something, however, if I wanted to record a football game off ESPN and watch it later, that was also a goal of mine.

WHS --> Router/Network <-- HTPC, all connected via ethernet. Is it common to just record the cable to the HTPC and then transfer it to the WHS? Assuming you wish to save it for later/as long as you want. My guess is most people just record it directly to the HTPC HDD and then delete it after they watch it?

Judging from what you said about 2c) knowing I would have a newer GPU, I would likely just direct connect a HDMI from the GPU to receiver?

From from what I've read and/or seen. Windows Home Server will be the operating system I'll go with. It looks most cheap/easy to use, and I'm not doing anything intricate. How does the HTPC interface with the file server, is that all managed through Windows Media Center via remote/keyboard/mouse choice?

Ah, Infrared - Is there a piece of hardware that must be installed to the HTPC that allows you to control it, like a PCI slot or something, or is that usually built into the case?

Thanks Danny,
PrometheuSBoxeR

 

[PrometheuSBoxeR]

Everything Danny Bui said is pretty good. Like he said in regards to your second point, the WHS is just a server on your network. Anything that has access to your LAN/router would have access to the WHS. Media playback would be streaming over the LAN to the HTPC, and for this reason its best to have them wired up together, preferrably over gigabit ethernet. With a properly set up WHS (or other OS home server) you should be able to accomplish all your filesharing/media goals

As for recording shows directly on to the WHS, thats a little tougher, especially if you have cable. In that case you'd need a Ceton CableCard tuner, and they're both expensive and hard to get (the waiting list is hundreds of people long). The supposed SiliconDust cablecard tuner is networked so it'd probably be better in that case, but its pretty much total vaporware at this point. If all you have is OTA, then the HDhomerun might work

If someone like my friend in another state wanted to access a word document stored on my home server, how exactly is that accomplished if it's all properly set up. Are there any restrictions when doing something like that? Is that just what one would call a FTP?

As I mentioned in the above post, it seems like the standard way to record is to HDTV --> HTPC HDD --> Watch Show --> Move to WHS if storing, otherwise delete?

Thanks

 

[Adidas4275]

To record premium HD tv content you need either the ceton cable card tv 4 tuner

Or a HD-PVR which works with your STB.

 

[Dangman]

My current cable provider is Comcast digital cable, I am likely to go to FIOS with Verizon in the near future. I'd be interested in recording just my basic HD TV shows such as Lie To Me off Fox or something, however, if I wanted to record a football game off ESPN and watch it later, that was also a goal of mine.

I think the other posters have already covered what you need to do here.

WHS --> Router/Network <-- HTPC, all connected via ethernet. Is it common to just record the cable to the HTPC and then transfer it to the WHS? Assuming you wish to save it for later/as long as you want. My guess is most people just record it directly to the HTPC HDD and then delete it after they watch it?

Actually not really. Most people just record the content and then move it over to their server.

Judging from what you said about 2c) knowing I would have a newer GPU, I would likely just direct connect a HDMI from the GPU to receiver?

Correct.

From from what I've read and/or seen. Windows Home Server will be the operating system I'll go with. It looks most cheap/easy to use, and I'm not doing anything intricate. How does the HTPC interface with the file server, is that all managed through Windows Media Center via remote/keyboard/mouse choice?

WHS just simply shows up as another "drive" or folder in WMC. That's pretty much it. No need to

Ah, Infrared - Is there a piece of hardware that must be installed to the HTPC that allows you to control it, like a PCI slot or something, or is that usually built into the case?

It can either be installed vis USB or some cases have it built in already.

If someone like my friend in another state wanted to access a word document stored on my home server, how exactly is that accomplished if it's all properly set up. Are there any restrictions when doing something like that? Is that just what one would call a FTP?

You can install a FTP server if you like. However you may not need to if you follow the instructions for WHS:
http://www.mswhs.com/2007/10/give-g...even-though-they-are-thousands-of-miles-away/

As I mentioned in the above post, it seems like the standard way to record is to HDTV --> HTPC HDD --> Watch Show --> Move to WHS if storing, otherwise delete?

Basically. Though some people don't need the TIVOlike function with live TV or have quite a bit of cash to burn so to simplify things even further, they just straight up have the TV tuners installed in the WHS server.

 

[Killroy]

1) Goals

a. I want to be able to store all my movies, music, photos, documents in a centralized location (server?) with access to them through any computer (personal and HTPC, and iPhone) on the network.​

Anything connected to your network (wired or wireless) will be able to browse the files on your WHS. What they have access to will be based on what user is logged in to the computer or what name and password you use when prompted. On any computer you configure to connect with WHS, it will create a shortcut to the shared files on your WHS. When you view the share it will have all of your files broken up into the main folders (Music, Videos, Recorded TV, Pictures, Users, Documents, etc.) and you set who has read and write access to each of these. The iPhone will probably require an app to be bought to browse the network. (I use a free app on my Droid but don't have one yet on my iPad)

b. I want to be able to browse/view/edit/save files (Microsoft Office files mostly) from any location (ie: friends house in another state). I want to think of it as a massive USB flash drive that doesn’t move, but I can use it from any computer with proper access.

The default way to access the WHS from outside of your personal network is through your *.homeserver.com website (very simple to do, basically just choose a name and it does everything for you). You can choose which accounts have remote access to the server, too. When you login to the website it is similar to an FTP site in that it lists all of the files and folders and you can download or upload to them easily. So to update an Excel file, you would have to download it, change it, and then upload it back to the server.

Alternatively, you could VPN onto your network and edit files like you would at home by just opening, editing, and saving them.

Accessing remotely with something like an iPhone isn't very good without a VPN.

c. Rip my blu-ray and non blu-ray movies onto the server and watch them at a later time without the disk from my TV/stereo system HTPC.

Very easy to do. All of your hard drives are seen as one big drive and you can add and remove drives very easily (though removing can take a while if there is a lot on the drive).

d. Record HDTV onto the server and watch the shows my TV/stereo system HTPC.

Most people record the show directly to the HTPC and then rename it and move it to the server for archiving.

e. Watch HDTV through the HTPC (while recording another channel if I choose)

This can be done but there are a couple different ways to go about it. You mentioned that you have Comcast, which means that you could use a CableCard tuner and you wouldn't need a set top box. The downside is that these are expensive, hard to find, and will not work if you switch to FiOS. The other option is to use something like the HD PVR which is a tuner that connects to your set top box (has to have component out) and local network. Then you can watch live TV from any computer in the house. This method would require a set top box and HD PVR for each channel you want to watch/record at the same time.

f. Listen to my music collection through the stereo system via remote from the server.

This can easily be done from any HTPC or network streamer.

g. Download a video from my personal computer, store it to the server, and be able to easily access and watch it through my TV.

This can easily be done. If you download anything directly to the server, it is a good idea to create a "Scratch" folder to store files before you move them where they need to go.

h. Browse the internet via wireless mouse/keyboard through TV.

This is also very easy to do. I would recommend the Logitech diNovo Mini if you want a small keyboard with a touchpad.

2) Connections

a. I’m still not exactly sure on how WHS are connected to the HTPC/network. Is everything done wirelessly? Ethernet? Should the WHS be next to/near the HTPC due to connectivity concerns?​

It is best to connect everything you can with network cable and only use wireless if you have to. You would have your modem->router->switch (if your router does not have enough ports)->PCs. Wired connections will give you less trouble (driver problems, interference, etc.) and plenty of bandwidth to stream large bluray files. Distance doesn't really matter inside the house if you use wired connections.

b. If my goal is to have a TV/home stereo/HTPC/WHS, what gets connected to what and via what?

See answer for 2a.

c. It’s my basic understanding - I will have a TV with a AV Receiver hooked up to the via HDMI (through newer receivers). A subwoofer, center speaker, front right, front left, back left, back right hooked up to the AV Receiver. A HTPC with graphics card connected to the TV, and the motherboard sound (onboard) connected to the AV Receiver. The WHS is then connected to the HTPC, serving as a hub for the HTPC to “play” whatever is on the server through the TV/speakers whether it’s music/movies etc.

Like Danny Bui said, the HTPC will connect to the receiver via HDMI for both video and audio. The HTPC will have access to everything you allow it to have access to on the WHS, and essentially treats the files as if they are locally stored. If you use Windows 7 Home Premium, you will probably want to look at the different add ons for Media Center like Media Browser. You may have to install codecs to playback certain files or Arcsoft's TotalMedia Theatre if you want to playback blurays from ISOs or the disk directly.

d. Overall, I just want to grasp the whole understanding of how everything syncs together. I am trying to visualize the big picture.

Hopefully this helps some.

3) Windows Home Server

a. It’s my understanding a WHS is basically boiled down to a home computer, usually with lots of storage, a less than stellar CPU, integrated graphics/cheap graphics, decent RAM, running Windows Home Server operating system.​

Pretty much. A low powered dual-core with 2 or 4GB of RAM, one or more network cards, onboard or no video card, and plenty of SATA ports and hard drive slots.

b. I am unsure of the other options if WHS is not the best, Linux based servers? NAS? I don’t really know the difference even after looking them up. Particularly NAS vs. WHS.

WHS would probably be the simplest and best option for you.

4) HTPC

a. What is needed to use a wireless remote control? I read a few things regarding IR Receivers? I couldn’t find out what the acronym IR stood for or how it works.​

Several cases come with an IR receiver built in and a remote control. With an IR receiver you can use most universal remotes but the Logitech Harmony remotes are some of the best.

All of the above assumes that you will be using WHS for your server and Windows 7 Home Premium for your HTPC. Others are welcome to correct me if I am wrong or misstated anything above.

 

[PrometheuSBoxeR]

Thank you very much. I have a much, much better understanding of everything. Thank you for taking time out of your day - which I'm sure is busy, to help me out. That's to everyone.

 

[Dangman]

No prob. Feel free to ask more questions.

 

[Killroy]

You're welcome, we are all glad to help and having a well formatted and detailed initial post helps a lot. Just know that you can do so much more than has been mentioned so far. I would also not activate Windows on your HTPC or WHS until you have everything setup and working the way you want.

 

[PrometheuSBoxeR]

Question/Concern:

I have a personal PC, and plan to always have one. It is used for gaming, work, research, whatever I can get my hands dirty with. Mostly gaming/work.

I'm definitely interested in building a HTPC, so I can watch streams/listen to music/watched ripped blu-rays through my big screen/stereo system in my living room.

I figured a server would also be nice to have to complete the "trifecta" of having a personal PC, HTPC, and a server all through my home network. However, I am still trying to understand the advantages/disadvantages of using a server. Is there any obvious reasons I am missing other than using the server as a large storage/archiving drive on a network? What's to stop me from just adding 2-3 more 2TB HDD's to my HTPC?

If I rip a blu-ray onto the HTPC, would it be more practical for me to just archive it on a big HDD in the actual HTPC rather than on a server?

 

[xrintrahx]

Servers can have parity or redundancy or other ways to restore data from drive failures. Do you have any sort of backup on your PC? If not, that is one advantage of a server. Another advantage is they can be built to consume very little power, something that a workstation rarely does, which may be important if this is something you want to keep on all the time. Finally, if you have someone watching an HD movie in one room, and you are working on your workstation, there could be resource conflicts, or otherwise, your computer may not be able to do all the tasks at the same time and keep a clean, stutter free HD stream. That said, I actually have my main PC doubling as a media server because I'm poor/cheap and don't really have the space for a server.

If live TV isn't something you want out of a HTPC, and you just want to stream media, nothing else, you may be able to get by with just a media streamer box. I know they exist, but I don't know enough about them to make specific recommendations.

 

[xFROSTx]

Question/Concern:

I have a personal PC, and plan to always have one. It is used for gaming, work, research, whatever I can get my hands dirty with. Mostly gaming/work.

I'm definitely interested in building a HTPC, so I can watch streams/listen go music through my big screen/stereo system in my living room.

I figured a server would also be nice to have to complete the "trifecta" of having a personal PC, HTPC, and a server all through my home network. However, I am still trying to understand the advantages/disadvantages of using a server. Is there any obvious reasons I am missing other than using the server as a large storage/archiving drive on a network? What's to stop me from just adding 2-3 more 2TB HDD's to my HTPC?

If I rip a blu-ray onto the HTPC, would it be more practical for me to just archive it on a big HDD in the actual HTPC rather than on a server?

You could easily add a couple drives to your HTPC to store your media instead of a server. As you are aware (Because it looks like you have a few on your mind), there are plenty of other reasons for a server. In the HTPC world though, storage and archiving is the main point, with everything else being icing on the cake.

Funny that you should ask this, because that's exactly what I was thinking while reading this thread. I don't know how much the other server functionality you mentioned matters to you, but when it comes to media storage on a WHS, you probably won't notice the benefits until you have accumulated a large, several TB, media collection. The main point of this is that those additional drives require extra space, more power and add heat. Basically, additional drives add to things that you already want to avoid with a HTPC. There are other reasons of course, but the point is that an additional storage drive or two should be a problem. When you start needing 4 additional drives, you will probably notice some performance and efficiency issues creeping up, which will make the benefits of a WHS more apparent.

Since you are just starting out with HTPC's, it might make things less confusing to do this in 2 stages. For stage 1, focus on the HTPC functionality and just add a couple of drives for extra storage. Once you get TV recording, ripping and everything else squared away on the HTPC, move on to stage 2 and add a WHS. Your storage drives will easily move over, so it's not like you will need to redo any work to add a WHS down the road.

 

[Dangman]

I figured a server would also be nice to have to complete the "trifecta" of having a personal PC, HTPC, and a server all through my home network. However, I am still trying to understand the advantages/disadvantages of using a server. Is there any obvious reasons I am missing other than using the server as a large storage/archiving drive on a network? What's to stop me from just adding 2-3 more 2TB HDD's to my HTPC?

Well aside from the noise, heat, and slight performance issues that xFROSTx brought up, it's also largely depended on HOW you're gonna be storing, protecting, and organizing your data. Some people may want to do a RAID array, have multiple drives show up as one big drive, or some other kind of redundancy/sort of protection of their data. As such, those are the situations where a HPTC with a bunch of storage drives would not work too well.

As for other pratcical uses, as a personal example, my WHS server does nightly baremetal backups of most of the PCs in my home. Baremetal backup is where an entire copy of the OS or drives in a PC are backed up/kept on the server. Should the hard drive die, all you need to do is pop in the WHS Recovery CD and you'll be able to reload your entire OS of that PC at the time of the last backup without issue. You really can't get baremetal backup done that well with a HTPC.