Please critique my first system build

C

Citizen Snips

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jan 6, 2009
Messages
171
This is my first time building a system, so I'd appreciate any feedback from the forums. I've read about a lot of other people's i7 builds, so hopefully my choices don't need many changes.

1) What will you be doing with this PC? Gaming? Photoshop? Web browsing? etc

This PC will be used for gaming, movies, music, and general office work/web browsing. Obviously the gaming requirement will dictate the choice system components.

2) What's your budget? Are tax and shipping included?

The budget is $1200-$1500, including tax and shipping, although tax should be $0 if I order online.

3) Where do you live?

TX

4) What exact parts do you need for that budget? CPU, RAM, case, etc. Please be very specific.

See my complete list of chosen components below.

5) If reusing any parts, what parts will you be reusing? Please be especially specific about the power supply. List make and model.

I will not be reusing anything.

6) Will you be overclocking?

I will not be overclocking at first, however I have chosen RAM that should give me the headroom to overclock later. I will use the Intel stock cooler for now, and then upgrade if I decide to overclock and the stock cooler proves to be inadequate.

7) What size monitor do you have and/or plan to have?

I have a Dell 2408wfp.

8) When do you plan on building/buying the PC?

I'd like to have everything ordered by the end of March, unless there's some huge price drop coming up in April that I'm not aware of.

9) What features do you need in a motherboard? RAID? Firewire? Crossfire or SLI support? etc.

The most stringent requirement I have is that the board support SLI for a potential future upgrade. I say that is the most stringent because many board do not have SLI, but boards with SLI tend to have all other features anyone could want (RAID, onboard HD audio, etc.)

10) Do you already have a legit and reusable/transferable OS key/license?

Yes, I have a copy of Windows Vista Business x64 that has not been installed on any other system.



With that said, here is my choice of components:

CPU: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115202
Mobo: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128374&Tpk=Gigabyte%20GA-EX58-UD4P
RAM: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227365&Tpk=OCZ%20OCZ3G1600LV6GK
HD: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136319&Tpk=WD%20Caviar%20Black%20640%20GB
Video Card: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150330&Tpk=XFX%20GX260NADBF
DVD+-RW: http://www.mwave.com/mwave/DeepSearch_v2.asp?scriteria=Lite-ON+IHAS422&ALL=y&TP=
Case: http://www.mwave.com/mwave/DeepSearch_v2.asp?scriteria=antec+nine+hundred+two&ALL=y&TP=
PSU: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139005&Tpk=Corsair%20CMPSU-650TX
Mouse: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16826104244&Tpk=Logitech%20MX1100

The total for the above items comes to ~$1300 before rebates, and ~$1200 after rebates. I have also included $30 in that total for a new keyboard, although I haven't picked that out yet since it's not critical to the build.





Here are a couple of questions I have:

1. is the PSU sufficient for future growth, or should I get a 750W? This is my biggest concern with the above build.

I used the power supply calculator on this page [L=link]http://extreme.outervision.com/psucalculatorlite.jsp[/L] and assumed the following components:

High End Desktop Motherboard
core i7 920
85% TDP
CPU overclocked to 4 GHz (Vcore = 1.35)
3 sticks DDR
2 Nvidia GTX 260 core 216's in SLI
1 7200 RPM HD
1 DVDRW drive
1 BD-ROM drive
1 floppy drive
1 PCI sound card
fan controller
2 cold cathodes
3x120mm LED fans, 1x250mm LED fan
90% system load
20% capacitor aging

The calculator spit out exactly 650W for the above list of components. I have no idea how reliable that calculator is, but it's the first result when you google "power supply calculator", and it seems to be pretty detailed.

Note that the 650W figure above was made based on several assumptions about future upgrades. It assumes that I will:

- add a couple of cold cathode lights
- add a BD-ROM drive
- add a 2nd GTX 260 in SLI
- overclock my i7 to 4 GHz using a Vcore of 1.35V
- add a floppy drive
- add a fan controller


While some of these may have a negligble impact on power consumption, others may have a major impact. I'm not even sure if I will make any/all of these upgrades in the future; I'm just trying to plan ahead and include some overhead into my power supply to allow for potential future upgrades.

Having said that, should I stick with the 650TX, or move up to the 750TX? The extra $20 for the 750TX isn't a huge issue, but I don't want to pay for it if I don't really need it. I have also read that the 650TX is made by Seasonic, while the 750TX is made by CWT ([L=link]http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1383408&highlight=corsair+seasonic[/L]). Apparently Seasonic is a better brand than CWT.

2. Does anyone have any opinions on the IHAS422, particularly regarding durability and noise level? The drive received a very good review on CDFreaks, but if you read through the Newegg reviews for any DVD drive, you will find many people saying the drive is the loudest drive they have ever used, and many others saying it's the quietest drive they have ever used.
 
None of your Anandtech sytle links will work here on the VB forums.

But looking at the parts so far, I recommend the following changes:
- Get this cheaper RA< and slightly safer RAM (uses less voltage than the OCZ):
G.Skill F3-12800CL9T-6GBNQ 3 x 2GB DDR3 1600 RAM - $100

- Also I recommend getting the mobo and CPU together as part of this combo deal to save $20:
Intel Core i7 920 CPU and Gigabyte GA-EX58-UD4P Intel X58 ATX Motherboard combo - $539

1) Yes I recommend the 750TX due to its great price to performance ratio. It is totally worth the extra cash.

2) Never used that particular DVD drive. However I've worked with enough Lite On drives to know that they are pretty loud.
 
Danny Bui said:
None of your Anandtech sytle links will work here on the VB forums.

But looking at the parts so far, I recommend the following changes:
- Get this cheaper RA< and slightly safer RAM (uses less voltage than the OCZ):
G.Skill F3-12800CL9T-6GBNQ 3 x 2GB DDR3 1600 RAM - $100
Click to expand...

I saw that ram, but noticed its timings were 9-9-9-24, as opposed to the RAM I picked out, which has slightly better at 8-8-8-24. Is that less important than the voltage?

Danny Bui said:
- Also I recommend getting the mobo and CPU together as part of this combo deal to save $20:
Intel Core i7 920 CPU and Gigabyte GA-EX58-UD4P Intel X58 ATX Motherboard combo - $539
Click to expand...

Yeah, I saw they had a combo deal on that, and plan to get it.

Danny Bui said:
1) Yes I recommend the 750TX due to its great price to performance ratio. It is totally worth the extra cash.
Click to expand...

According to that link I posted, the 750TX is made by CWT, and the 650TX is made by Seasonic. According to some reading I have been doing on here, Seasonic is the better manufacturer of power supplies. Is that correct?

Danny Bui said:
2) Never used that particular DVD drive. However I've worked with enough Lite On drives to know that they are pretty loud.
Click to expand...

Is there any particular alternative you would recommend?
 
Citizen Snips said:
I saw that ram, but noticed its timings were 9-9-9-24, as opposed to the RAM I picked out, which has slightly better at 8-8-8-24. Is that less important than the voltage?
Click to expand...
Timings don't really matter and is less important than the voltage in the case of Core i7 CPUs. The max voltage for RAM for Core i7 CPUs is 1.65V.

Citizen Snips said:
According to that link I posted, the 750TX is made by CWT, and the 650TX is made by Seasonic. According to some reading I have been doing on here, Seasonic is the better manufacturer of power supplies. Is that correct?
Click to expand...
More or less yes. However in this case, the slightly higher quality of the 650TX does not warrant its purchase over the 750TX considering how much power the 750TX offers. Both are good quality PSUs.

Citizen Snips said:
Is there any particular alternative you would recommend?
Click to expand...

+1 to Everett1's recommendations
 
Until March 16, the Corsair 850TX costs just as much as the 750TX (both after rebate) after a $15 discount with code EMCLPML49. In that case, I'd surely go with the 850TX. Just got one myself.
 
Danny Bui said:
Timings don't really matter and is less important than the voltage in the case of Core i7 CPUs. The max voltage for RAM for Core i7 CPUs is 1.65V.
Click to expand...

Why is having a lower voltage important in the case of core i7 CPUs? What difference does it make, as long as it is less than or equal to 1.65V?

Why are the timings not important?
 
Citizen Snips said:
Why is having a lower voltage important in the case of core i7 CPUs? What difference does it make, as long as it is less than or equal to 1.65V?

Why are the timings not important?
Click to expand...

Since the Core i7 CPUs have an integrated memory controller, ram voltage now plays a part in the operations of the CPU. So to cut to the chase, having voltage any higher than 1.65V will kill the CPU. Hence why I recommend geting the G.Skill RAM since it only uses 1.6V at most to have a little headroom.

You honestly won't notice the lower timings in any real world app, well gaming at least anyway.
 
Danny Bui said:
Since the Core i7 CPUs have an integrated memory controller, ram voltage now plays a part in the operations of the CPU. So to cut to the chase, having voltage any higher than 1.65V will kill the CPU. Hence why I recommend geting the G.Skill RAM since it only uses 1.6V at most to have a little headroom.

You honestly won't notice the lower timings in any real world app, well gaming at least anyway.
Click to expand...

Are you supposed to increase the RAM voltage when overclocking (not over 1.65V obviously)?
 
Citizen Snips said:
Are you supposed to increase the RAM voltage when overclocking (not over 1.65V obviously)?
Click to expand...

Yes, but you increase it in reasonable limits. If the ram initially begins at 1.5v and runs stable at that voltage and advertised speeds, then you have some headroom and can increase it to about 1.6v and possibly even more. If the ram begins at 1.6v, then you have much less room to work with since 1.65v is the threshold.
 
PC_User said:
Yes, but you increase it in reasonable limits. If the ram initially begins at 1.5v and runs stable at that voltage and advertised speeds, then you have some headroom and can increase it to about 1.6v and possibly even more. If the ram begins at 1.6v, then you have much less room to work with since 1.65v is the threshold.
Click to expand...

Would 1.65V RAM not need to have it's voltage increased when overclocking?

Is there any real good reason to go with 1.65V RAM over 1.5V?
 
No, since (as Danny mentioned earlier) going above 1.65v would kill the processor. In this case, you want RAM that can run on less voltage, since it gives you a higher threshold to use for overclocking. Even if you don't overclock, having RAM that runs on less voltage is a good insurance measure, since you'll know that you won't be hitting the voltage threshold.
 
tiraides said:
No, since (as Danny mentioned earlier) going above 1.65v would kill the processor. In this case, you want RAM that can run on less voltage, since it gives you a higher threshold to use for overclocking. Even if you don't overclock, having RAM that runs on less voltage is a good insurance measure, since you'll know that you won't be hitting the voltage threshold.
Click to expand...

So why do manufacturers even sell 1.65V RAM in the first place? Right now, there are more 1.65V DDR3 modules on Newegg than any other voltage.
 
That, I don't know. If I had to guess, many RAM manufacturers do just enough to ensure that their RAM kits follow the JEDEC standards for RAM timings and voltage (I don't know what they are for DDR3 RAM). However, many sets of RAM run at faster speeds than necessary (even for Intel's onboard MCH), so you could safely assume that the memory, if "clocked down" to run at a slower speed, would be able to run at a (somewhat) lower threshold.

But since I'm not using DDR3 RAM myself, I can't say for certain.
 
Here's the way I see it:

Many kits have timings of 8-8-8-21 and run at 1.65v. If you lower the voltage, there's the possibility of undervolting the ram and it may or may not work properly. It may not even boot at all if the voltage is too low. For some kits however, you can loosen the timings to 9-9-9-24 and have a 1.65v kit run successfully at a slightly lower voltage.

Other kits have voltages of 1.5-1.6. Those kits are well under the Intel barrier of 1.65v and will not damage the CPU at said voltages. However, the naturally have looser timings (9-9-9-24), but it can be argued that these do not have any noticeable difference in real-world performance (and in many benchmarks). That being said, these kits can also be overclocked (by increasing the voltage and setting tighter timings). The goal is to make your system as stable as possible. I would say there's a better probability that a 1.5v kit will run fine at 1.6v than a 1.65 kit running at 1.5-1.55v.
 
PC_User said:
Here's the way I see it:

Many kits have timings of 8-8-8-21 and run at 1.65v. If you lower the voltage, there's the possibility of undervolting the ram and it may or may not work properly. It may not even boot at all if the voltage is too low. For some kits however, you can loosen the timings to 9-9-9-24 and have a 1.65v kit run successfully at a slightly lower voltage.

Other kits have voltages of 1.5-1.6. Those kits are well under the Intel barrier of 1.65v and will not damage the CPU at said voltages. However, the naturally have looser timings (9-9-9-24), but it can be argued that these do not have any noticeable difference in real-world performance (and in many benchmarks). That being said, these kits can also be overclocked (by increasing the voltage and setting tighter timings). The goal is to make your system as stable as possible. I would say there's a better probability that a 1.5v kit will run fine at 1.6v than a 1.65 kit running at 1.5-1.55v.
Click to expand...

So basically, there is no downside to going with a 1.5 V kit?

What power supply do you think I should use? Will a Corsair 650W handle everything I have now, plus my potential upgrades, or should I get something more powerful? I mentioned the power supply calculator I used in my OP.
 
Citizen Snips said:
So basically, there is no downside to going with a 1.5 V kit?

What power supply do you think I should use? Will a Corsair 650W handle everything I have now, plus my potential upgrades, or should I get something more powerful? I mentioned the power supply calculator I used in my OP.
Click to expand...

No downsides.

The 650TX would be enough for your potential upgrades but if you can afford it, get the 750TX.
 
Danny Bui said:
No downsides.

The 650TX would be enough for your potential upgrades but if you can afford it, get the 750TX.
Click to expand...

On Newegg, the 750TX and 850TX are both the same price when you use the $15 coupon for the 850TX. It expires tomorrow. Both are the same price after rebate and the 850TX is better.
 
What speed of memory should I get? I see 1066, 1333, and 1600 options. I know 1066 is the core i7 default. Do I only need higher speeds when overclocking?
 
I agree with Danny, tiraides, and PC User.

Rebates are never guaranteed. If you can live with the pre-rebate price, go for it. If not, get something cheaper, but still good quality.
 
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