[PCPER] The NVIDIA GeForce GTX TITAN Z Review

[Relayer]

Yes, its a trade off. Personally I'd rather have more big slow fans than a few small fast ones. If exhausting the heat out the back means a single fast fan to blow it through the hsf stack its just not worth it when I can have 5 120mm fans running at half the noise level pulling the air through my case.


eh, I tend to define "blowers" as coolers that exclusively exhaust to the exterior, but I guess thats just semantics. Do you define this card as being cooled by a blower? The fins are in the same orientation so some airflow will be channeled out the back... Either way the point is that the Titan Z is also a compromised card from the sense of heat dump into the case since half the air flows out the back,

Generally a squirrel cage fan rather than an axial fan is one of the features that makes the extractor be labeled a "blower". So, just like you, I wouldn't call the Titan-Z cooler a blower.

 

[Brackle]

Titan Z VRM Temps 85.3 http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/nvidia_geforce_gtx_titan_z_review,9.html

295x2 VRM Temps 70 http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/amd_radeon_r9_295x2_review,14.html

Which one do you think would heat up a Case quicker? HMMMMM I dunno thats a tough one to figure out.

I mean 15.3c is very close!

295x2 is 1DB louder then Titan Z. MY GOD MY EARS WOULD BLEED over 1db http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/nvidia_geforce_gtx_titan_z_review,10.html

"The GeForce GTX Titan Z would have / could have been a successful product in the gaming segment if Nvidia didn't make two rather big mistakes. The first issue is heat. Nvidia tried to compensate for the tremendous amounts of heat that the two GPUs produce. Even a humongous 3-slot cooler could not save them. With their temperature target as such, a fairly low 705 MHz base-clock is the result."

 

[Relayer]

Titan Z VRM Temps 85.3 http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/nvidia_geforce_gtx_titan_z_review,9.html

295x2 VRM Temps 70 http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/amd_radeon_r9_295x2_review,14.html

Which one do you think would heat up a Case quicker? HMMMMM I dunno thats a tough one to figure out.

I mean 15.3c is very close!

295x2 is 1DB louder then Titan Z. MY GOD MY EARS WOULD BLEED over 1db http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/nvidia_geforce_gtx_titan_z_review,10.html

"The GeForce GTX Titan Z would have / could have been a successful product in the gaming segment if Nvidia didn't make two rather big mistakes. The first issue is heat. Nvidia tried to compensate for the tremendous amounts of heat that the two GPUs produce. Even a humongous 3-slot cooler could not save them. With their temperature target as such, a fairly low 705 MHz base-clock is the result."

The Titan-Z measurement is the heat at the edge of the PCB. The actual VRM are going to be a lot hotter.

 

[wonderfield]

Titan Z VRM Temps 85.3 http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/nvidia_geforce_gtx_titan_z_review,9.html

295x2 VRM Temps 70 http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/amd_radeon_r9_295x2_review,14.html

Which one do you think would heat up a Case quicker? HMMMMM I dunno thats a tough one to figure out.

Temperature is not a measure of heat being dissipated.

 

[Unknown-One]

So you think if the 295x2 @$1500 won't fit in my $49 case I should buy a $3000 GPU instead? /sarc

Nope, didn't say that. Go back and re-read my post. I clearly said the ncase M1 (not some $49 cheapie).

I also said I'd love to put a Titan Z in an M1, but ON THE CONDITION that it was cheaper. Since you missed it: that means I'm far from suggesting a $3000 GPU as a solution.

It's a rather nice $185 Mini-ITX case, but you can't physically install a 295X2 in it.

When we are talking this level of hardware, I don't think a case that will hold the 295x2 is a real big concern for 95% of the perspective buyers.

I never said it was. It was simply an example situation.

There are plenty of cases out there that can't fit 12.5" graphics cards. There are also plenty of cases where mounting the R9 295's radiator blowing into the case would be the only option. These are situations where it's cooling solution is NOT ideal.

Generally a squirrel cage fan rather than an axial fan is one of the features that makes the extractor be labeled a "blower".

Except squirrel cage fans only work properly with one exit, not two. A dual-ended blower (like the one on the Titan Z) has to make-due with a traditional high-static-pressure fan.

So, just like you, I wouldn't call the Titan-Z cooler a blower.

No, that's not like me at all. The Titan Z clearly has a blower cooler on it.

Titan Z VRM Temps 85.3 http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/nvidia_geforce_gtx_titan_z_review,9.html

295x2 VRM Temps 70 http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/amd_radeon_r9_295x2_review,14.html

Which one do you think would heat up a Case quicker? HMMMMM I dunno thats a tough one to figure out.

Actually, yes, that is a tough one to figure out. As Wonderfield pointed out, just because a component is hotter doesn't mean it's actually RADIATING that heat more quickly.

For example, a traditional blower cooler + base plate will soak up heat and blow it directly out the back of your case. The PCB might end up overall-warmer, but the surface area that radiates into the case is small (flat PCB) while the surface area that radiates into the blower cooler (the finned cooling plate) is large.

Now, if we look at the 295X2... well, it also has a cooling plate with a large surface area, but it doesn't direct air out of the rear-vent. They've effectively added a large amount of surface area that does nothing but radiate PCB heat into the case.

I mean 15.3c is very close!

Irrelevant when you fail to consider surface area.

Comparing just the PCB cooling plates, the 295X2 has more than double the surface area dedicated to blowing PCB heat into the case. So yes, I'd say heat coming from PCB components (RAM, VRMs, and any heat that leaks from the GPUs into the PCB) is being radiated more effectively into the case by the 295X2.

Again, just for clarity: That's speaking ONLY about what the PCB cooling plates are doing. The actual GPU-coolers are another matter.

295x2 is 1DB louder then Titan Z. MY GOD MY EARS WOULD BLEED over 1db http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/nvidia_geforce_gtx_titan_z_review,10.html

Interesting results, but it circles back to what I've said about AIO water coolers since they came on the scene. They don't make a system any quieter.

The first issue is heat. Nvidia tried to compensate for the tremendous amounts of heat that the two GPUs produce. Even a humongous 3-slot cooler could not save them.

What do you mean, exactly? There's a video review showcasing two of these things running in SLI without overheating. What's wrong with the cooler?

With their temperature target as such, a fairly low 705 MHz base-clock is the result."

Not really seeing the problem here. It never got hot enough to throttle (just hot enough to stop boosting).

Also, if you only have one usable expansion slot, a Titan Z and the 295X2 are still the fastest options, even when not running at boosted clocks. They'd have to actually throttle, severely, for other single-card solutions to pass them up.

 

[RamonGTP]

Having a cooling plate on the PCB vs a naked PCB is not going to radiate more heat into the case. The amount of heat is the same, the only difference is that it's spread across a larger area so the entire thing is cooler so the PCB and it's components don't get as warm. The amount of energy released is the same, just that that energy isn't all stored on the PCB killing the components on it.

Take a space heater, put it in a room for an hour and take before and after heat measurments. Take that same space heater, add some additional metal to it for more surface area, put it in that same room with the same starting temp for the same amount of time, and your average temperature will be the same.

The only difference is that with more surface area may heat up the room at a faster rate since the energy is released faster, but the AMOUNT of energy is the same.

 

[Brackle]

Nope, didn't say that. Go back and re-read my post. I clearly said the ncase M1 (not some $49 cheapie).

I also said I'd love to put a Titan Z in an M1, but ON THE CONDITION that it was cheaper. Since you missed it: that means I'm far from suggesting a $3000 GPU as a solution.

It's a rather nice $185 Mini-ITX case, but you can't physically install a 295X2 in it.


I never said it was. It was simply an example situation.

There are plenty of cases out there that can't fit 12.5" graphics cards. There are also plenty of cases where mounting the R9 295's radiator blowing into the case would be the only option. These are situations where it's cooling solution is NOT ideal.


Except squirrel cage fans only work properly with one exit, not two. A dual-ended blower (like the one on the Titan Z) has to make-due with a traditional high-static-pressure fan.


No, that's not like me at all. The Titan Z clearly has a blower cooler on it.


Actually, yes, that is a tough one to figure out. As Wonderfield pointed out, just because a component is hotter doesn't mean it's actually RADIATING that heat more quickly.

For example, a traditional blower cooler + base plate will soak up heat and blow it directly out the back of your case. The PCB might end up overall-warmer, but the surface area that radiates into the case is small (flat PCB) while the surface area that radiates into the blower cooler (the finned cooling plate) is large.

Now, if we look at the 295X2... well, it also has a cooling plate with a large surface area, but it doesn't direct air out of the rear-vent. They've effectively added a large amount of surface area that does nothing but radiate PCB heat into the case.


Irrelevant when you fail to consider surface area.

Comparing just the PCB cooling plates, the 295X2 has more than double the surface area dedicated to blowing PCB heat into the case. So yes, I'd say heat coming from PCB components (RAM, VRMs, and any heat that leaks from the GPUs into the PCB) is being radiated more effectively into the case by the 295X2.

Again, just for clarity: That's speaking ONLY about what the PCB cooling plates are doing. The actual GPU-coolers are another matter.


Interesting results, but it circles back to what I've said about AIO water coolers since they came on the scene. They don't make a system any quieter.


What do you mean, exactly? There's a video review showcasing two of these things running in SLI without overheating. What's wrong with the cooler?


Not really seeing the problem here. It never got hot enough to throttle (just hot enough to stop boosting).

Also, if you only have one usable expansion slot, a Titan Z and the 295X2 are still the fastest options, even when not running at boosted clocks. They'd have to actually throttle, severely, for other single-card solutions to pass them up.

So basically you think Guru3d's review is all wrong and that you are right. gotcha

 

[Unknown-One]

Having a cooling plate on the PCB vs a naked PCB is not going to radiate more heat into the case. The amount of heat is the same, the only difference is that it's spread across a larger area so the entire thing is cooler so the PCB and it's components don't get as warm.

You missed a key distinction, which I pointed out numerous times. Here it is, one more time:

- The PCB cooling plate on the 295X2 radiates STRICTLY into the case. None of the cooling plate's heat is ducted out the back.
- The PCB cooling plate on the Titan Z radiates into the air-channel inside the blower cooler, so half of its heat is ducted out the back.

The Titan Z also has a smaller cooling plate overall, which means the 295X2 has more than double the cooling-plate-area radiating into the case. That's what you missed: surface area relative to exhaust location.

So even if the amount of heat being pushed into the cooling plate on both cards was absolutely identical, the 295X2 would STILL pushing more of that cooling-plate-heat into the case than the Titan Z.

Take a space heater, put it in a room for an hour and take before and after heat measurments. Take that same space heater, add some additional metal to it for more surface area, put it in that same room with the same starting temp for the same amount of time, and your average temperature will be the same.

The only difference is that with more surface area may heat up the room at a faster rate since the energy is released faster, but the AMOUNT of energy is the same.

Except your attempted analogy isn't relevant to the current situation.

You'd have to compare a heater with a small surface area (where half of its heat is ducted out a window) to a heater with a large surface area (where all of its heat is blown into the room) to get the same type of set-up as the PCB cooling plates on these cards.

So basically you think Guru3d's review is all wrong and that you are right. gotcha

Not necessarily, I never said that anywhere (never even mentioned Guru3d in that post).

What did I say in the quoted post that disagrees with their review? Which review specifically? Link?

 

[RamonGTP]

The points you're making are irrilivent. Heat plate vs naked PCB is not going to add more heat to the case unless you can show me how an inert piece of metal is somehow adding energy, which you cannot because it does not. In other words. You're wrong. Again

 

[cageymaru]

Titan Cooler woes explained.

http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/nvidia_geforce_gtx_titan_z_review,9.html

 

[Unknown-One]

The points you're making are irrilivent. Heat plate vs naked PCB is not going to add more heat to the case unless you can show me how an inert piece of metal is somehow adding energy, which you cannot because it does not.

I never said anything about adding energy, so I'm not sure what you're on about there.

And the points I've made are perfectly relevant. A naked PCB will radiate less heat into the case than a PCB with a finned cooling plate mounted to it ON THE CONDITION (and this is the condition that you keep missing) that said finned cooling plate is also part of a blower cooler.

Scenario 1, 100% of PCB heat stays inside the case:
- Finned cooling plate inside the case = more heat INSIDE the case, as heat is transferred efficiently to moving air that's NOT exiting the case.
- Backside of the PCB (bare) inside the case = more heat inside the case, but can't be transferred efficiently to the air due to a lack of surface area and/or lack of airflow over that surface area.

Scenario 2, less than 100% of PCB heat stays in the case:
- Finned cooling plate inside a blower cooler = more heat OUTSIDE the case, as heat is transferred efficiently to moving air that's EXITING the case.
- Backside of the PCB (bare) inside the case = some heat inside the case, but can't be transferred efficiently to the air due to a lack of surface area and/or lack of airflow over that surface area.

How do you keep missing that exhaust location for a given portion of surface area makes a difference to how much heat ends up in the case? Again, one cooler has expanded surface-area in an air-channel that evacuates heat from the case, the other does not.

Your current line of thinking is only relevant to a closed-system, which isn't even close to what we're dealing with here.

You're wrong. Again

Nope, you simply failed to read, again.

 

[Unknown-One]

Titan Cooler woes explained.

http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/nvidia_geforce_gtx_titan_z_review,9.html

From the article (the entire last paragraph on the page you linked):

When we position the thermal camera outwards we can see that the overall cooler design really works well. The hottest point is the top side of the card where there is some residual PCB heat detected. Overall it is a little so-so. The majority of heat is exhausted, but at the backside that backplate is collecting residual heat and at 80 degrees C it is dumping it into the PC chassis.

Though they can't actually claim to know exactly how much heat that back-plate is dumping into the case. It's not aggressively finned (not much additional surface area), and with no airflow, it will act as more of a heat-soak than anything else (radiated-heat similar to a bare PCB, but with the added benefit of being able to handle thermal variation more gracefully due to the additional volume).

 

[Relayer]

Nope, didn't say that. Go back and re-read my post. I clearly said the ncase M1 (not some $49 cheapie).


I also said I'd love to put a Titan Z in an M1, but ON THE CONDITION that it was cheaper. Since you missed it: that means I'm far from suggesting a $3000 GPU as a solution.

It's a rather nice $185 Mini-ITX case, but you can't physically install a 295X2 in it.

Oh, $185. That makes the extra 15Hundy worth it.

I never said it was. It was simply an example situation.

There are plenty of cases out there that can't fit 12.5" graphics cards. There are also plenty of cases where mounting the R9 295's radiator blowing into the case would be the only option. These are situations where it's cooling solution is NOT ideal.

Another example where an extra 15hundy is money well spent?

Except squirrel cage fans only work properly with one exit, not two. A dual-ended blower (like the one on the Titan Z) has to make-due with a traditional high-static-pressure fan.

Completely false and untrue. There have been double ended coolers with radial blowers on them. A radial blower blows equally 360°.

No, that's not like me at all. The Titan Z clearly has a blower cooler on it.

There's your problem. You think it's all about you. I was responding to the quoted poster.

 

[RamonGTP]

You're unsure of what people are talking about as well as having a bad memory of your own words in nearly every one of your posts In this thread. You're the problem. I know you don't know what I'm talking about. Like I said you're the problem.

 

[RamonGTP]

Lol

http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/nvidia_geforce_gtx_titan_z_review,9.html

 

[KazeoHin]

You're unsure of what people are talking about as well as having a bad memory of your own words in nearly every one of your posts In this thread. You're the problem. I know you don't know what I'm talking about. Like I said you're the problem.

Do you think Uknown-One is some sort of bot? Responding with these paragraphs of Nvidia defends based on certain AMD-friendly keywords?

 

[Brackle]

Do you think Uknown-One is some sort of bot? Responding with these paragraphs of Nvidia defends based on certain AMD-friendly keywords?

I think he is paid by Nvidia. If look you around hardware websites, they all have them. Problem is sometimes they are so trying to do damage control that they come across as ignorant and looking stupid.

Even when the evidence proves them wrong, they are right.

 

[Unknown-One]

Completely false and untrue. There have been double ended coolers with radial blowers on them. A radial blower blows equally 360°.

I said they only work "properly" with one exit, not that they fail to work at all.

So no, not completely false or untrue. The more exits you add to a squirrel cage fan, the less static-pressure you get per-exit (and the dense fin-stack on a graphics card needs a lot of static pressure).

You're unsure of what people are talking about as well as having a bad memory of your own words in nearly every one of your posts In this thread. You're the problem. I know you don't know what I'm talking about. Like I said you're the problem.

I have have a good memory of my own words. I'm unsure of what people are talking about because they keep referencing things I never said as if I said them.

Case in point, I'm able to go back and correct all of these misreadings and misquotes with my own words. That wouldn't be possible if I didn't have a handle on what I had said and/or the person had read properly to begin with.

Do you think Uknown-One is some sort of bot? Responding with these paragraphs of Nvidia defends based on certain AMD-friendly keywords?

Not really defending Nvidia here. I've already said that the price of the Titan Z (which seems to be everyone's largest complaint) is too high. I'm in agreement with all of you on that point.

The point of contention was weather or not the Titan Z itself is some kind of joke, and so far, it still looks like a decent piece of hardware. Like I said, if the price were sane, I'd very much like to stuff one into an M1. Not sure why that's so hard to understand.

I think he is paid by Nvidia. If look you around hardware websites, they all have them.

Not paid by Nvidia in any way (why would someone who's paid by Nvidia call one of their products overpriced, repeatedly?)

Actually, the only company here who's given me any free hardware is AMD. The 6970 I've got in my secondary PC was a gift from them. Does that make me an AMD shill?

 

[Relayer]

I said they only work "properly" with one exit, not that they fail to work at all.

So no, not completely false or untrue. The more exits you add to a squirrel cage fan, the less static-pressure you get per-exit (and the dense fin-stack on a graphics card needs a lot of static pressure).

They work perfectly "properly". Of course if you concentrate the output you are going to get more pressure. You can focus the output from an axial fan and increase pressure as well. It's a fairly common practice. That's completely irrelevant as to being "properly" working or not. I've seen centrally placed radial fans used in dual GPU cards that worked "properly".

 

[Unknown-One]

They work perfectly "properly".

They obviously don't work "perfectly" with multiple exits, otherwise they wouldn't bother shrouding ~50% of the fan on most blower coolers, as there would be no point.

Of course if you concentrate the output you are going to get more pressure. You can focus the output from an axial fan and increase pressure as well.

Yes, you can, but it doesn't work even CLOSE to as well on a normal fan. The overall output from axial fans drops pretty severely if you try to focus it, where as squirrel cage fans don't mind it as much.

It's a fairly common practice. That's completely irrelevant as to being "properly" working or not.

But the entire point of using a squirrel cage fan is for increased static pressure (especially since it provides airflow perpendicular to the axle by default). Opening up both ends removes most of that advantage. Can't really say it's working properly when it misses the entire point (and we'll see an example of the problems a centrally-mounted squirrel-cage fan has in just a second).

I've seen centrally placed radial fans used in dual GPU cards that worked "properly".

That will depend on a number of design choices. For example board layout will also determine weather or not it's even possible to do that. If there are hot components dead-center, it will also prevent you from using a blower fan.

What cards have you see with centrally-mounted squirrel cage fans? I've been looking through dual GPU cards, and it seems VERY rare.

In fact, the first (and only) instance I came across was the HD 6990... which is a terrible example of a centrally-mounted squirrel cage fan, because the card is EXTREMELY loud, screaming in at up to 62.3 dB under load... that's 20 dB higher than the Titan Z or 295X2 under load (and a 20db increase roughly equates to a 4x increase in perceived volume, yikes!). Clearly there's a reason nobody does this: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/radeon-hd-6990-antilles-crossfire,2878-15.html

Especially damning, in the case of the 6990, is that two 6970's in crossfire (with two end-mounted fans) end up substantially quieter than one 6990 (with one centrally-mounted fan). Again, there's clearly a reason almost nobody attempts to use this type of fan in this type of cooler design.

 

[Relayer]

They obviously don't work "perfectly" with multiple exits, otherwise they wouldn't bother shrouding ~50% of the fan on most blower coolers, as there would be no point.


Yes, you can, but it doesn't work even CLOSE to as well on a normal fan. The overall output from axial fans drops pretty severely if you try to focus it, where as squirrel cage fans don't mind it as much.


But the entire point of using a squirrel cage fan is for increased static pressure (especially since it provides airflow perpendicular to the axle by default). Opening up both ends removes most of that advantage. Can't really say it's working properly when it misses the entire point (and we'll see an example of the problems a centrally-mounted squirrel-cage fan has in just a second).


That will depend on a number of design choices. For example board layout will also determine weather or not it's even possible to do that. If there are hot components dead-center, it will also prevent you from using a blower fan.

What cards have you see with centrally-mounted squirrel cage fans? I've been looking through dual GPU cards, and it seems VERY rare.

In fact, the first (and only) instance I came across was the HD 6990... which is a terrible example of a centrally-mounted squirrel cage fan, because the card is EXTREMELY loud, screaming in at up to 62.3 dB under load... that's 20 dB higher than the Titan Z or 295X2 under load (and a 20db increase roughly equates to a 4x increase in perceived volume, yikes!). Clearly there's a reason nobody does this: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/radeon-hd-6990-antilles-crossfire,2878-15.html

Especially damning, in the case of the 6990, is that two 6970's in crossfire (with two end-mounted fans) end up substantially quieter than one 6990 (with one centrally-mounted fan). Again, there's clearly a reason almost nobody attempts to use this type of fan in this type of cooler design.

Everything you said is completely irrelevant to properly working. Just because a card with centrally located VRM would not be suitable for a centrally located blower is not relevant. Because blowers are louder than axial fans is irrelevant. That doesn't mean the radial fan isn't working properly. The fact that there is any card with a centrally located radial fan blowing in 2 directions invalidates your claim that they don't work "properly" unless they only exit in a singular direction. You're simply wrong. You continue to type just because you like reading your own dribble.

There's no point in continuing as by your lack of any rebuttal that directly negates anything I've said is proof enough you are wrong. Have the last word, if you like. It'll likely just be a repeat until you are blue in the face of the same non factual dribble, but you'll have the last word and I know that's important.

 

[Unknown-One]

Everything you said is completely irrelevant to properly working.

How so? Explain how it's working properly if the only design using it is a spectacular failure as far as any sane measurement of noise-to-cooling-performance ratio is concerned?

Just because a card with centrally located VRM would not be suitable for a centrally located blower is not relevant.

Perfectly relevant to this thread, considering the location of components on both the Titan Z and the 295 X2.

Because blowers are louder than axial fans is irrelevant.

I never made that claim in any absolute terms. Blowers can be much quieter than axial fans when implemented properly.

That doesn't mean the radial fan isn't working properly.

Again, look at the 6990 review. With that cooler design (with both ends opened up), it operated 4x louder than TWO of the same fan cooling similar components with the ends closed.

Sorry, but a 4x increase in noise, with the same type of fan, to cool roughly the same components doesn't sound like that fan was used properly or was working properly. Opening up both ends totally nerfed it.

The fact that there is any card with a centrally located radial fan blowing in 2 directions invalidates your claim that they don't work "properly"

No it doesn't. Notice that I used it as validation for my claim that such a setup doesn't work properly.

It worked so poorly on the 6990 that AMD appears to have totally dropped the idea. Neither the 7990 or the 295x2 use a centrally-mounted squirrel cage fan on a dual-ended blower. Why? Because it doesn't work properly.

It'll likely just be a repeat until you are blue in the face of the same non factual dribble

What isn't factual, exactly? I've already shown that, in the rare instance where someone did attempt to use a centrally located squirrel cage fan in a dual-ended blower, it ended terribly.

Go ahead, read the review I linked. There's a very good reason almost nobody attempts that type of design. 295X2, GTX 590, GTX 690, and GTX Titan Z all use a central axial fan. This is not coincidence.

 

[RamonGTP]

I think he is paid by Nvidia. If look you around hardware websites, they all have them. Problem is sometimes they are so trying to do damage control that they come across as ignorant and looking stupid.

Even when the evidence proves them wrong, they are right.

I actually doubt nVidia would want his sort of representation. It's an embarrassment.

 

[Unknown-One]

I actually doubt nVidia would want his sort of representation. It's an embarrassment.

I already covered that point:

Not paid by Nvidia in any way (why would someone who's paid by Nvidia call one of their products overpriced, repeatedly?)

Actually, the only company here who's given me any free hardware is AMD. The 6970 I've got in my secondary PC was a gift from them. Does that make me an AMD shill?

 

[RamonGTP]

That wasn't my point, so no, you didn't cover it.

 

[Unknown-One]

That wasn't my point, so no, you didn't cover it.

Yes I did, it's right there in the quote.

In that quote, I pointed out that I've been calling their product (the Titan Z) overpriced for the entire duration of the thread, so it would make no sense for me to be any form of paid Nvidia rep.
You said you doubt Nvidia would want my representation... AFTER I'd already pointed out a glaringly obvious reason why they wouldn't want my representation.

What is there to doubt? Already covered.

Edit: Also, this is rapidly spiraling off-topic again. Are we done trying (and failing) to accuse me of being some kind of Nvidia plant?

 

[trungracingdev]

Yes I did, it's right there in the quote.

In that quote, I pointed out that I've been calling their product (the Titan Z) overpriced for the entire duration of the thread, so it would make no sense for me to be any form of paid Nvidia rep.
You said you doubt Nvidia would want my representation... AFTER I'd already pointed out a glaringly obvious reason why they wouldn't want my representation.

What is there to doubt? Already covered.

Edit: Also, this is rapidly spiraling off-topic again. Are we done trying (and failing) to accuse me of being some kind of Nvidia plant?

The general census of this threads believes u are, therefore u are. Even if u don't think so. Notice how every single reply is not supporting you? It's not a coincidence. You stand alone.

 

[Unknown-One]

The general census of this threads believes u are, therefore u are.

That makes no sense. Belief does not conjure truth.

Notice how every single reply is not supporting you? It's not a coincidence. You stand alone.

What are you talking about? I've had plenty of support in this thread.

My two primary points, right from the start:
- The price is too high
- The hardware itself is fine.

I think I've been almost 100% supported on that first point, and mostly supported on that second one.

 

[trungracingdev]

Here is a simple concept that u just can't seem to grasp. The main reason why we aren't praising the titan z is because of its insane asking price, plus inferior cooling. For those reasons, the Titan z is not a good product to "us". What's so hard to understand about that? "You" can choose to ignore the price, but everyone else can't.

20 pages later, and you still say the same shiet over and over...enough is enough!

 

[Unknown-One]

The main reason why we aren't praising the titan z is because of its insane asking price

Which I've said from the beginning. The price is most-definitely a problem. Never denied that.

plus inferior cooling.

That's still going to be situational. There are instances where the 295X2's cooling is the inferior choice too, you know.

For those reasons, the Titan z is not a good product to "us".

I never said it was a good product for you, I simply said the Titan Z doesn't seem like a joke.

Again, I totally agree that the PRICE of the Titan Z is a joke, but the Titan Z itself? Not really seeing anything damning about it.

What's so hard to understand about that? "You" can choose to ignore the price, but everyone else can't.

What are you talking about? I've done anything but ignore the price (I've acknowledged it constantly).

 

[RamonGTP]

Yes I did, it's right there in the quote.

In that quote, I pointed out that I've been calling their product (the Titan Z) overpriced for the entire duration of the thread, so it would make no sense for me to be any form of paid Nvidia rep.
You said you doubt Nvidia would want my representation... AFTER I'd already pointed out a glaringly obvious reason why they wouldn't want my representation.

What is there to doubt? Already covered.

Edit: Also, this is rapidly spiraling off-topic again. Are we done trying (and failing) to accuse me of being some kind of Nvidia plant?

There's a lot of reasons why they wouldn't want you as a rep, what you pointed out is the least of those reasons.

 

[RamonGTP]

What are you talking about? I've had plenty of support in this thread.

The rest of us must have most of these supporting members on ignore since there doesn't seem to be "plenty" of supporting posts showing up for the rest of us.

 

[Unknown-One]

The rest of us must have most of these supporting members on ignore since there doesn't seem to be "plenty" of supporting posts showing up for the rest of us.

So you don't support either one of these points? The two points raised by my very first post in this thread?

What are you talking about? I've had plenty of support in this thread.

My two primary points, right from the start:
- The price is too high
- The hardware itself is fine.

I think I've been almost 100% supported on that first point, and mostly supported on that second one.

 

[RamonGTP]

I think if you're honestly that confused about what we are talking about after this many posts, then you're simply not intelligent enough to have a conversation with.

 

[Unknown-One]

I think if you're honestly that confused about what we are talking about after this many posts, then you're simply not intelligent enough to have a conversation with.

I'm not confused at all.

I asked a simple question, you hit back with a baseless personal attack and no answer to said question.

Care to try again, or are you unable to answer?

 

[RamonGTP]

Its been discussed. Many many times. And no, I won't show you where, again.

You are confused, just look at the countless times you've had to ask who, what, where, when, and why. I'm done making your ignorance my responsibility. It's not an attack, no one has limitless intelligence and given the repetitive nature of your posts, and the number of times your bouts with confusion have been addressed time and again, I don't think its an attack to say that limit has been reached.

Feel free to chime in with the last word.

 

[Tamlin_WSGF]

Again, I totally agree that the PRICE of the Titan Z is a joke, but the Titan Z itself? Not really seeing anything damning about it.

Depends on what you measure it up against. As a paperweight, I think its a design win compared to the 290X2 or a bucket of water. If you think product placement from Nvidia which is the natural point of comparison for most people, its a joke.

1. The choice of using triple-slot instead of dual-slot is a bad design choice for SFF users wanting SLI in SFF.
2. It underperforms compared to similar solutions (like dual Titan blacks) for budget minded CUDA developers.
3. It underperforms vs. similar solutions (like the 290x2 from AMD) as a gaming card and also compared to dual card solutions like 780 TI in SLI.
4. Even in terms of noise, which you pointed out earlier, I would much rather prefer the 290X2, exchange the fans on the radiator and make a custom fan curve for the fan on the card itself. Objectively speaking, the potential performance/noise ratio is much better on the 290X2 then the Titan Z.
5. Its extremely overpriced compared to other choices within that price range, as you yourself has pointed out a lot of time, which makes the product placement of this card a joke by that point alone.

The Titan Z doesn`t belong anywhere in the market where Nvidia placed this product, and probably will mainly be bought by people who doesn`t have the foggiest idea of what they are buying.

PS. Please don`t microquote the hell out of my post in your reply.

 

[ragecase]

Only the most ardent and insane nvidia fanboy would defend the TitanZ. I use nvidia cards almost exclusively and still realize the TItanZ is completely pants on head retarded.

It serves no purpose whatsoever. If they cut the price by $1000 minimum you could start to make some argument for its relevance. As it stands now it is just a big joke on nvidia.

They ought to EOL it ASAP and try to save some face.

 

[Unknown-One]

Its been discussed. Many many times. And no, I won't show you where, again.

So you can't answer a simple question. Got it.

You are confused, just look at the countless times you've had to ask who, what, where, when, and why.

Nope, not confused. I asked a simple question, you can't seem to answer it. That's where we stand.

Also, if you'd actually read and respond in a way that makes sense (and doesn't pull misquotes out of thin air), you wouldn't have to deal with people having to sort through your confusion constantly.

I'm done making your ignorance my responsibility. It's not an attack, no one has limitless intelligence and given the repetitive nature of your posts, and the number of times your bouts with confusion have been addressed time and again, I don't think its an attack to say that limit has been reached.

Yet another personal attack. Still not answering the question. I'm no-longer surprised.


Ok, so now that we're passed that... onto posts with actual content:

1. The choice of using triple-slot instead of dual-slot is a bad design choice for SFF users wanting SLI in SFF.

Definitely not universally true

The 295X2's additional length (and the giant radiator hanging off of it) will, many-times, make it the poorer choice out of the two for SFF builds.

2. It underperforms compared to similar solutions (like dual Titan blacks) for budget minded CUDA developers.

Titan Black SLI is hardly a similar solution.

4 slots vs. 3 slots.
500w vs. 375w
2 PCIe slots required vs. 1 PCIe slot required.

And traditionally, dual-GPU cards barely match (or under-perform) a full SLI system built using top-end cards of the same generation. This is fairly normal.

3. It underperforms vs. similar solutions (like the 290x2 from AMD) as a gaming card and also compared to dual card solutions like 780 TI in SLI.

As I said earlier, an appropriate price-point makes that moot.

So, once again, price is the problem.

4. Even in terms of noise, which you pointed out earlier, I would much rather prefer the 290X2, exchange the fans on the radiator and make a custom fan curve for the fan on the card itself. Objectively speaking, the potential performance/noise ratio is much better on the 290X2 then the Titan Z.

You'll probably find you wont be able to get it much quieter before temps skyrocket. AIO water coolers really hate low fan speeds and/or pump speeds.

That's always been my primary complaint with AIO water coolers when using them for CPU cooling, they simply can't idle as quietly as a normal single-stack air cooler.

Also, cooling-preference is going to depend greatly upon the case that the card is going into. Doesn't matter how good the 295X2's cooling is if you can't physically install a 12.5" graphics card.

5. Its extremely overpriced compared to other choices within that price range, as you yourself has pointed out a lot of time, which makes the product placement of this card a joke by that point alone.

Right, so the price is a problem. But, as I've been saying, the price doesn't change a single atom of the hardware. Still the same card.

The Titan Z doesn`t belong anywhere in the market where Nvidia placed this product, and probably will mainly be bought by people who doesn`t have the foggiest idea of what they are buying.

Right, so a pricing-change would immediately cause it to make sense.

PS. Please don`t microquote the hell out of my post in your reply.

Sorry man, there wasn't really a better way to respond to a list like that..

Only the most ardent and insane nvidia fanboy would defend the TitanZ. I use nvidia cards almost exclusively and still realize the TItan Z is completely pants on head retarded.

Again, what's wrong with the Titan Z? It's a dual GPU card, it does what it's supposed to.

It serves no purpose whatsoever. If they cut the price by $1000 minimum you could start to make some argument for its relevance. As it stands now it is just a big joke on nvidia.

I've already mentioned a few places it can fit that other solutions can't. There are people who want it that simply don't want to pay $3000 for it.

So, once again, we're back to the price being a joke. That doesn't make the Titan Z itself a joke, though.

They ought to EOL it ASAP and try to save some face.

Or just drop the price and/or release a GTX 790 at a lower price point?

Same thing that happened with the original GTX Titan. Nvidia followed-up with a GTX 780 instead of dropping the price.

 

[cageymaru]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cdiz0k0Rudw