PayPal is no longer safe against scammers...

T

trikat

Limp Gawd
Joined
Mar 5, 2006
Messages
228
PayPal will deny disputes as long as the scammer provides a "delivered" tracking number to your city.
Even their executive offices (via State DOJ complaint) said, "we conducted an additional review and confirmed no PayPal errors occurred when denying your Claim based on the evidence provided by both you and the Seller."

I submitted documentation proving they were scammers.
Even explained the scam page by page...

On 12/27 and 12/28 the scammer wrote the order was not processed due to an internal error and also said the product is out of stock.
On 12/29 the scammer uploaded a new scam FedEx tracking number showing delivery on 12/23.
The dates do not match up plus the scammer already confirmed the order was not processed / shipped.
FedEx tracking has a picture of the package showing a garage that does not match my garage.
I provided a picture of my house from redfin.com which uses Google maps.
My address is on the order and on my PayPal account.
The weight of the shipment does not match the estimated weight of the item I ordered factoring in shipping box + material, at least 2.6lbs difference.

PayPal either did not review my documentation or is completely incompetent.

Currently working on a dispute with Chase, credit card. Which is also frustrating to deal with since the "senior" dispute representative was rude.

I'm convinced scammers can say "I will scam you LOL" and likely get away with it.

Edit: Not sure if I can reply to this thread anymore so I won't, got a warning for off-topic / not allowed.
Some advice:
Do not use PayPal balance, always credit card as source.
PayPal will deny all disputes with a delivered scam tracking number. PayPal Global Customer Complaints & Advocacy said I need to file an appeal.
So file an appeal before considering bank dispute.
PayPal can (or you) contact the shipping carrier and confirm the address does match the victim's address.
PayPal and bank do not care about your conversations with the scammer. They will focus solely on the tracking number.
Edit2: FedEx (supervisor) was familiar with tracking number scamming. FedEx will email a letter stating the shipment is not addressed or delivered to your address.
Chase dispute is still in progress and ridiculously slow.
 
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Was this on the forum or something? PayPal protection is really a last resort against scamming, you shouldn't expect it to protect you.
 
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GoldenTiger said:
Shady website. This also has nothing to do with the fsft forum here....
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Aliexpress is not shady i have ordered many things through there. Sure there might be a shady seller on that site similar to how things go with amazon or ebay third party sellers. OP is just warn8nh of his paypal experience which may relate to those that ise paypal for fsft forum. trikat did you report the issue to alixpress? They should be able to adress issues with orders. I had missing thermal pads from a wb i ordered and reported it throught the order.
 
trikat said:
Aliexpress.
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This is why you got the warning on the forum.

That said, you continue to escalate it with PayPal until you get someone that will actually get on the phone with you and listen. Barring that, you deal with a chargeback with your CC, which you've done AND file a police report. Doing a chargeback will likely get your PayPal account suspended and you will also likely get sent to collections, but it's the cost of doing business with PayPal.
 
You say AliExpress... do you mean like, the company, or a third party seller there?

PayPal is useful but you really shouldn't be using it on businesses that even seem slightly dodgy for one reason or another. That's why you use credit cards with buyer protection instead. PayPal will only go so far.
 
Foxhack said:
You say AliExpress... do you mean like, the company, or a third party seller there?

PayPal is useful but you really shouldn't be using it on businesses that even seem slightly dodgy for one reason or another. That's why you use credit cards with buyer protection instead. PayPal will only go so far.
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I am guessing a third party shady seller on there. You have to do your homework when buying on Ali, and stick with trusted sellers (ones that don't have really strange names, ones that have been in business for awhile, ones that have lots of sales history under their belts). Just like Amazon, there are MANY shady sellers on there (not to mention third party sellers on other sites, like Walmart, Newegg, etc).
 
It's been this way for as long as I can remember. PayPal INR (item not received) cases will automatically resolve in the seller's favor if the seller can provide a tracking number for a shipment to a ZIP code that matches the buyer's ZIP. If the seller mails you an empty box, you can try to file SNAD (significantly not as described) but under current rules, PayPal will make you send the item back and it is unclear what happens when the seller receives an empty box. I've seen some pretty brazen stuff come out of Aliexpress, unlike for US sellers the chance of criminal penalties for overseas sellers is almost zero (shit like sending people empty boxes is mail fraud and carries a hefty criminal penalty)

Just use a credit card for anything shady, any half decent CC company will refund you and chargebacks work even for payments sent as F&F.
 
One time I was selling something, and the buyer charged back and even with evidence, Paypal did nothing, so a crook got an item and I lost my money.
Another time, I was buying something, and the seller didn't send the item, and even with evidence Paypal did nothing, so a crook got my money and I lost my item.

No matter which way it goes, Paypal never sides with justice. This was many years ago, so "no longer safe" is a bit of a thread title misnomer. They are 100% corrupt and cannot be trusted in any situation.
 
1337Goat said:
One time I was selling something, and the buyer charged back and even with evidence, Paypal did nothing, so a crook got an item and I lost my money.
Another time, I was buying something, and the seller didn't send the item, and even with evidence Paypal did nothing, so a crook got my money and I lost my item.

No matter which way it goes, Paypal never sides with justice. This was many years ago, so "no longer safe" is a bit of a thread title misnomer. They are 100% corrupt and cannot be trusted in any situation.
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You're a victim until you protect yourself. Use a credit card that has protection as a source to fund the purchase. Document everything. Make phone calls.
 
Paypal works fine for me and has helped me a couple times when i had issues as a buyer. First instance company never shipped it, the other instance, item was shipped to the wrong address, ups would do nothing, and the company i bought it from said sorry, i was able to provide all the logs of everything and paypal refunded me. Things take time and you have to do work on your own end but everyone has different experiences with things. And yes talk to people, be calm and understanding, good attitude goes a long way.
 
Darunion said:
Paypal works fine for me and has helped me a couple times when i had issues as a buyer. First instance company never shipped it, the other instance, item was shipped to the wrong address, ups would do nothing, and the company i bought it from said sorry, i was able to provide all the logs of everything and paypal refunded me. Things take time and you have to do work on your own end but everyone has different experiences with things. And yes talk to people, be calm and understanding, good attitude goes a long way.
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Yea, in like 21 years of using Paypal I have never lost a dispute no matter which side I was on. I upload every piece of documentation, as much as possible, overwhelm them with it, call them and work it out. If you just use the online stuff, they will never side with you usually because some rando employee is just clicking through things. When you call, it forces someone to actually look at the evidence and hear the story. They have call metrics to meet so they aren't going to spend all day looking at all your stuff so they poke at some of it and just so ok, done deal.
 
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