Okay obviously the 670 is going to be much faster, but how much faster? I hear overclocked both of these are the best bang for your buck. I want to know is the 7850 going to go out of date really really fast? I don't absolutely need to run everything on full settings (mainly playing diablo right now and probably wont play too many other games for a year), but how long do you think it would last compared to the 670? I was thinking about getting the 7850 then selling it in a year or two and getting the next good card for the money. Is the 7850 overclocked going to handle pretty much most games on full settings or are games starting to become too graphic intensive for the card already. Also which brand overclocks the best?
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Overclocked 670 vs 7850
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SonDa5
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I've been looking at all kinds of benchmarks on both cards and from what I have seen it looks like HS7850 is about 20% weaker in performance. HD7850 is a very strong value looking at the price tag compared to other cards in this price range.
cannondale06
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a stock gtx670 is a little over 50% faster than a stock 7850. even if you get a great overclocking 7850 you are unlikely to touch the stock gtx670. most 7850 cards will not oc anywhere near what is needed to catch the gtx670.
I happen to have one of each of these cards in two machines at home, but with the same MB, CPU and memory, just different video cards. I have a MSI Twin Frozr 7850 and a Gigiabyte Windforce 670.
Bottom line is this, depending on what you play, what resolution, how much detail you want to see, and how much you want to spend. I'm using the 7850 oc'd to 1150/1450 in my desktop PC, at those speeds its very quick for a $260 video card, its not far behind my crossfire 5850 setup in this same machine and it complely smokes a single 5850 or 6870 that I also ran in that machine for a while. This is at 1920x1200 resolution and I like the highest detail settings in all my games.
That being said, the 670 is really quick too and it overclocks well also. I use this card in my HTPC in my living room which is also used for gaming. the 670 is an animal at 1920x1080, nothing it cant run at the highest detail settings and a solid 60fps V-sync capped.
If you've heard that the 7850 and the 670 are the best bang for the buck, I completely agree at their price points, I don't think either can be beat. Its simply a matter of how much power do you need and how much are you willing to spend. If you don't want to spend more than $260 or so, I promise you will not regret an overclocked 7850, its very quick, completely silent, and runs very cool even under load. I think the highest temps I've seen so far with the fan on auto setting is 62c looping Unigine Heaven. Most games its in the high 50's.
I couldn't be happier with both of my cards, I think they offer tremendous bang for the buck and I would gladly recommend either of them to anyone with confidence.
Bottom line is this, depending on what you play, what resolution, how much detail you want to see, and how much you want to spend. I'm using the 7850 oc'd to 1150/1450 in my desktop PC, at those speeds its very quick for a $260 video card, its not far behind my crossfire 5850 setup in this same machine and it complely smokes a single 5850 or 6870 that I also ran in that machine for a while. This is at 1920x1200 resolution and I like the highest detail settings in all my games.
That being said, the 670 is really quick too and it overclocks well also. I use this card in my HTPC in my living room which is also used for gaming. the 670 is an animal at 1920x1080, nothing it cant run at the highest detail settings and a solid 60fps V-sync capped.
If you've heard that the 7850 and the 670 are the best bang for the buck, I completely agree at their price points, I don't think either can be beat. Its simply a matter of how much power do you need and how much are you willing to spend. If you don't want to spend more than $260 or so, I promise you will not regret an overclocked 7850, its very quick, completely silent, and runs very cool even under load. I think the highest temps I've seen so far with the fan on auto setting is 62c looping Unigine Heaven. Most games its in the high 50's.
I couldn't be happier with both of my cards, I think they offer tremendous bang for the buck and I would gladly recommend either of them to anyone with confidence.
Thank you for all the info. I forgot to mention i'm running 1920 X 1200 and don't really plan on going higher than that. I don't really need to run games on 8X AA, but since its a new vid card I do want to run most current games at high setting. Right now I'm leaning more toward 670 so I don't have to think about changing the vid card in the future. What I wanted to know was how much more "future proof" the 670 was compared to the 7850. Seems like the difference is pretty large. I just didn't want to pay 150 dollars more for a card that wasn't significantly faster.
It is faster and if you don't need 8xAA and can live with 2xAA in a demanding title or even 4xAA in less demanding titles then save the money and get a 7850 because there will certainly be something faster in a year or two when you need it. The 670 will likely last you longer but you'll probably have the itch to upgrade before you actually need it so it may be money wasted unless you demand the highest AA settings.
You should be looking at a HD 7950 OC
Sapphire HD 7950 OC (950 Mhz) - USD 410
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102991
http://www.sapphiretech.com/presentation/product/?cid=1&gid=3&sgid=1157&pid=1551&psn=&lid=1&leg=0
from the product page
"The new design is HD 7970 class that enables more head room for overclocking".
I don't think you will have any problem getting this card to 1100+ in Sapphire Trixx at stock voltage. With extra voltage you can do 1200 Mhz. If you want a clue as to what performance you can get at 1150 - 1200 Mhz speeds
HD 7950 (1150 Mhz)
http://www.guru3d.com/article/radeon-hd-7950-overclock-guide/10
HD 7950 (1195 Mhz)
http://www.hardocp.com/article/2012/03/01/xfx_radeon_hd_7950_black_edition_video_card_review/8
I don't think you can get a better buy at the USD 400 price point. HD 7950 OC will beat GTX 670 OC in the most demanding games . Even in BF3 a 1200 Mhz HD 7950 can match a 1250+ Mhz GTX 670. Whereas in games where the GTX 600 cards hit bandwidth bottlenecks like Metro 2033, Crysis Warhead the HD 7950 OC will be clearly faster (15 - 20%).
http://www.guru3d.com/article/asus-geforce-gtx-670-directcu-ii-top-review/16
http://www.guru3d.com/article/asus-geforce-gtx-680-asus-directcu-ii-top-review/18
Metro 2033 1080p (Very high with DOF and AAA)
GTX 670 (1058 / 1137 boost) - 39
GTX 680 (1137 / 1267 boost) - 41
HD 7950 (1150) - 50
http://www.anandtech.com/show/5699/nvidia-geforce-gtx-680-review/7
from the review
"While Crysis was a strong game for the GTX 580, the same cannot be said of the GTX 680. NVIDIA is off to a very poor start here, with the Radeon HD 7970 easily outperforming the GTX 680, and even the 7950 is tied or nearly tied with the GTX 680 depending on the resolution. On the bright side the GTX 680 does manage to outperform the GTX 580, but only by a relatively meager 17%.
Given the large gap in theoretical performance between the GTX 680 and GTX 580, as it turns out we’ve run into one of the few scenarios where the GTX 680 doesn’t improve on the GTX 580: memory bandwidth. In our overclocking results we discovered that a core overclock had almost no impact on Crysis, whereas a memory overclock improved performance by 8%, almost exactly as much as the memory overclock itself. "
http://www.hardware.fr/articles/866-9/benchmark-alan-wake.html
Games like BF3, Alan Wake, Crysis 2, Witcher 2, Anno 2070, Shogun 2 Total war, Batman AC, Metro 2033, Crysis Warhead are the most demanding games. HD 7950 OC will win more than lose against GTX 670 OC. After spending US 400 you wouldn't want to be bandwidth constrained in any games in the future. Speak to HD 7950 OC users on these forums and then decide based on their feedback.
So Crysis 1 and Metro 2033 prove that an overvolted 7950 that uses about 50% to 70% more power than a cheaper and quieter GTX 670 is better because these two games are slightly better than the GTX 670?
Okay. Whatever dude. I guess if you put 1.5 volts into the 7950 and invest in a liquid hydrogen rig then you can enjoy your "better" AMD card. For the rest of us, here is what you will experience. http://enthusiast.hardocp.com/article/2012/05/14/geforce_680_670_vs_radeon_7970_7950_gaming_perf/3
Okay. Whatever dude. I guess if you put 1.5 volts into the 7950 and invest in a liquid hydrogen rig then you can enjoy your "better" AMD card. For the rest of us, here is what you will experience. http://enthusiast.hardocp.com/article/2012/05/14/geforce_680_670_vs_radeon_7970_7950_gaming_perf/3
You can forget Crysis Warhead and Metro 2033. The rest of the games are AAA games released in the last 12 months - BF3, Alan Wake, Crysis 2, Witcher 2, Anno 2070, Shogun 2 Total war, Batman AC. These games are popular and used in benchmarking because they really stress all the resources of the graphics card - shading power, ROP, bandwidth, tesselation.
You did not look at the games at all
http://www.hardware.fr/articles/866-9/benchmark-alan-wake.html
HD 7950 (800 Mhz) faster than GTX 670 (1084 boost) .
http://www.hardware.fr/articles/866-18/benchmark-the-witcher-2-enhanced-edition.html
HD 7950 (800 Mhz) tied with GTX 670 (1084 boost). Given that the HD 7950 OC card I mentioned was at 950 Mhz it would clearly be faster.
http://www.hardware.fr/articles/866-15/benchmark-crysis-2.html
HD 7950 (800 Mhz) is slower than GTX 670 (1084 boost) by 6 fps. Given that the HD 7950 OC card I mentioned was at 950 Mhz it would be on par.
http://www.hardware.fr/articles/866-10/benchmark-anno-2070.html
HD 7950 (800 Mhz) ties GTX 670 (1084) at 1080p max. A HD 7950 OC is clearly faster.
http://www.hardocp.com/article/2012/05/14/geforce_680_670_vs_radeon_7970_7950_gaming_perf/3
Even BF3 is just 6% faster on GTX 670 (1234) compared to HD 7950 (1050 Mhz)
BF3 Ultra 2560 x 1600 FXAA
GTX 670 (1234) - 58.1
HD 7950 (1050 Mhz) - avg 54.7 fps
Even with a conservative 1050 Mhz HD 7950 is competitive. Hitting 1050 Mhz in AMD CCC on a HD 7950 OC card (950 Mhz) is straightforward. I don't know if you would have any problem with that cause thats at stock voltage. With Sapphire trixx or MSI Afterburner they could do more at stock voltage. Beyond that is upto the user and his choice.
I think you forgot to read the XFX HD 7950 DD review
http://www.hardocp.com/article/2012/03/01/xfx_radeon_hd_7950_black_edition_video_card_review/8
BF3 2560 X 1600 Ultra 2x MSAA - avg 54.2 fps min 35 fps
As you say the GTX 670 is power efficient. But that comes with a cost of being bandwidth constrained in few games. When somebody points out a bandwidth shortcoming don't say it does not matter. It matters when you are spending USD 400. If you look only at pros whats the big deal. If 2 people always think alike one of them is redundant. So if somebody has a different opinion its ok
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Just to make sure, what CPU do you have? Because pairing up either of those 2 cards with an C2D for example won't do you any good and you'll most likely end up making a thread about how dissapointed your are with the card
Yes, my stock q8300 is bottlenecking my 7850. Too bad I can't my overclock my cpu because computer is a prebuilt.
I'll probably upgrade soon to a 3570k.
lol, hardforum isn't the only place he's doing this. OCN/HardwareCanucks/you name it. And users on OCN/HWC have also called him out on his posts.
It just is hilarous how a 6% difference that favors the gtx 670 is "slight" yet a 6% difference that favors the 7950 is "clearly faster"
Back on topic: gtx 670 is the superior card and gives the kind of performances i would expect when putting together a computer of that price. It is also more expensive.
SonDa5
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I like both cards but prefer the HD7950 because it has more over clocking head room, 3GB of vram and higher 384bit memory interface top it off with higher power phase ratings. The Saphire card is going for under $400 and it comes with 3 game coupons. Seems like a better deal for a card that is more capable. I think with driver tweaks the HD7950 will be able to pass the NVIDIA performance on more games that NVIDIA normally does better on because of better driver support.
What good is more overclocking headroom if it means more heat, higher power draw and still less performance than a 670? I'm just confused why you would still want a 7950 just because it can overclock better if it still performs worse in just about every meaningful measurement.
cannondale06
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yeah you would have to oc the 7950 by 15% just to match a stock gtx670.
SonDa5
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That is subjective depending on what game or synthetic benchmark you are looking at. Drivers play a big role in performance and NVIDIA does do better on some games based strictly because of better drivers.
The strong points of the HD7950 being more capable power phase, higher 384bit memory interface and the larger 3GB of vram doesn't change. Looking at the hardware the HD7950 is the better card. I think in time better PCB design with more vram and improved power phase will make the GTX 670 the better card. For now the HD7950 interest me more for its over clocking potential.
'
So the 7950 is better than the GTX 670 because the GTX 670 "cheats" by getting more performance in games, and the 7950 is better because it has extra Vram and memory bandwidth that doesn't actually translate into higher performance in games that aren't Crysis 1?
Okay.
People will always have opinions. I say the extra bandwidth is worth it. You might say it does not matter. Games which struggle to hit 50 fps at 1600p like BF3, Crysis 2, Alan Wake, Witcher 2, Shogun 2 , Batman AC are more relevant than a Portal 2 or Mass effect 3 which even a USD 200 card like GTX 560 Ti can max out at 1600p. I don't look at games which are doing some crazy 100+ fps cause it won't matter which card (HD 7950 or GTX 670) runs that game, you won't be able to tell any difference.
There will be people who prefer perf and perf/watt. There will be people who prefer perf and would prefer not to run into any bandwidth constraints whatsoever even if there is a power cost you pay today for that advantage . The former will go for GTX 670. The latter will prefer HD 7950. Finally it depends on the user to make his choice. There is no rule which says the way you decide on a card is the way somebody else has to think and make the same choice.
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Lazier_Said
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I don't follow the reasoning that a 7900 that's already on its third or fourth driver revision is going to get more out of future software tweaks than a card that was released two weeks ago.
The O.P. was talking about oc performance. the sapphire card HD 7950 OC 950 Mhz edition comes at pretty good factory clock settings. The card is mentioned as "HD 7970 class that enables more head room for overclocking ". With Sapphire Trixx even at stock voltage hitting 1100 would not be difficult . At those speeds you have a very competitive card.
There is no cheating. I suggest people look at a card individually before jumping into conclusions. Cards like Sapphire HD 7950 OC 950 Mhz edition are USD 410 price. The O.P. was talking about OC performance. Given that the product is mentioned as HD 7970 class with more headroom for overclocking , achieving 1100 Mhz using Sapphire Trixx at stock voltage is definitely realistic. I suggest you look at the games I talked about - Alan Wake, Witcher 2, Anno 2070. A 800 Mhz HD 7950 is tying up for performance with a GTX 670 (1084 Boost) . You realistically believe a HD 7950 at 1100 won't win against a 1250 Mhz GTX 670 in these games. Crysis 2 would be close enough to call a tie when you look at HD 7950 (1100 Mhz) against a GTX 670 (1250 Mhz) .
http://www.guru3d.com/article/powercolor-radeon-hd-7950-pcs-review/24
http://www.guru3d.com/article/asus-geforce-gtx-670-directcu-ii-top-review/23
DX 11 Ultra 4xAA 1600p
HD 7950 (1150 Mhz) - 43
GTX 670 (1280) - 40
the GTX 670 is a good card. But simply saying its the much superior card performance wise is not true. At best perf/watt is in the GTX 670's favour. But as has been shown there is a possibility of running into bandwidth constraints. It depends completely on the individual to choose what suits him.
The OP was also asking about a 7850 not a 7950 and trying to decide if it was worth the extra $. Is the 7850 OC vs a 670 a fair comparison? No, not at all, but that's what he was originally asking.
I picked up a reference 7950 for $315 from a forum member and I also bought a 670 on launch day for $435-ish (after tax). I ended up keeping the 670 after messing with both for a week. When watching Flash and mp4 videos ATI's drivers would sometimes cause my screen to flicker randomly (also happened on my 5850) - hasn't happened once with my 670. The 7950 (and 5850) ran hotter than my 670 at idle and on load; and the 7950 fan was louder when it spooled up past 40% vs the 670 at 40% fan speed. OC wise, I only got the 7950 to 1050-1100 before my system started bugging out, but then I had to bump the voltage and then the thing ran hotter and louder more often. Maybe if I had gotten a non-reference design it would have been better but no way was I going to put up with that. Also, for the record this is only my 2nd NV card.
I picked up a reference 7950 for $315 from a forum member and I also bought a 670 on launch day for $435-ish (after tax). I ended up keeping the 670 after messing with both for a week. When watching Flash and mp4 videos ATI's drivers would sometimes cause my screen to flicker randomly (also happened on my 5850) - hasn't happened once with my 670. The 7950 (and 5850) ran hotter than my 670 at idle and on load; and the 7950 fan was louder when it spooled up past 40% vs the 670 at 40% fan speed. OC wise, I only got the 7950 to 1050-1100 before my system started bugging out, but then I had to bump the voltage and then the thing ran hotter and louder more often. Maybe if I had gotten a non-reference design it would have been better but no way was I going to put up with that. Also, for the record this is only my 2nd NV card.
The OP was comparing 2 cards in different price brackets. 7850 is no match or competition for 670. the 670 OC vs HD 7950 OC is the right comparison. same price.
I have a HD 6950 2 GB and have had no issues with flash or mp4 videos. I use vlc player for my video playback.
Exactly. the Sapphire Dual X is the best cooling solution in custom HD 7900 cards.
http://enthusiast.hardocp.com/article/2012/04/10/sapphire_hd_7970_oc_edition_video_card_review/10
you can read the Dual-X Cooling System being praised for its quietness and for keeping the card relatively cool at high overclocks.
cannondale06
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that Sapphire fan quietness will let you enjoy the lovely 7970 coil whine.
You could also argue that in games that have lower average FPS, the minimum framerate is also VERY important, no one likes to see a dip into the 20's, the 670 seems to have better minimum framerates in most games as well. The extra bandwidth does help the 7950 and 7970 some, but not enough to overcome the 670 and 680's more efficient design.
Other than Batman AC can you show any game where there is a significant difference ? the Sapphire HD 7970 OC review in fact shows the contrary . check BF3 and Skyrim.
I suggest you also look at this
http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1038753441&postcount=13
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Some users have had less problems with coil whine. Some have had more. Few have resolved the problem by setting vsync and capping fps at 60. Anyway you can read more about it. Its not restricted to sapphire.
http://www.overclock.net/t/1223922/7970-does-yours-have-coil-whine
Knock yourself out, Bud.
http://www.hardocp.com/article/2012/05/14/geforce_680_670_vs_radeon_7970_7950_gaming_perf/2
Pure delusion on your part.
You would ignore a custom HD 7970 OC review just to prove what ? There is much hyprocrisy here. When there is evidence to the contrary to your statements you don't even bother to respond to it.
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You would ignore a custom HD 7970 OC review just to prove what ? There is much hyprocrisy here. When there is evidence to the contrary to your statements you don't even bother to respond to it.
NO ONE is listening to you. Why do you bother? Who are you trying to convince other than yourself?
NO ONE is listening to you. Why do you bother? Who are you trying to convince other than yourself?
http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1038753459&postcount=14
There are people who don't have the same opinion that you do. I am not convincing anybody. Why are you responding if you are not listening
http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1038753459&postcount=14
There are people who don't have the same opinion that you do. I am not convincing anybody. Why are you responding if you are not listening
Congrats man, you've got ONE person that shares your opinion. KUDOS, KUDOS!
Just because I respond to your nonsense doesn't mean I believe any of your BS. I guess you missed that. You've been trying to convince people of the 79xx series superiority for the last 1-2 months now and NO ONE believes you. Is that better for you than saying no one is listening? Some people read your BS, some people actually reply, but you're NOT convincing anyone so I fail to see why you continue with your campaign. Is it that lonely with a 79xx series card right now and you want others to share your love? I've owned both, a 7950 and now a 670. The 670 is just a better card in EVERY way, other than bitcoin mining which I don't care anything about.
I don't want anybody to believe whatever anybody says. Everybody is smart enough to come to their own conclusions based on their needs and based on their reasoning. There is no superiority contest. Its just what suits your needs. But to always praise the GTX 600 products and look only at its pros and neglect its cons while constantly talking about the cons of the HD 7900 cards and plain ridiculing the HD 7900 products no matter what its pros is not acceptable. Both cards are good products . It would be better if you stop with this AMD product bashing spree.
FYI I have a HD 6950 2GB for the past year and a half. And apart from Rage which took quite a while to work I have been fairly happy.
What AMD bashing spree am I on since I own a 7850? Just curious.
I've already stated in the past that the 7xxx series are good products, however the 7850 and 670 offer the best bang for the buck at their respective price points. I don't think that's bashing either manufacturer, I highly recommend one from each camp. I just don't agree at all that the 7950 or 7970 are better products or offer as much value at their current price points as the 670 or 680. Until a 660 or 650 card is released I think AMD has the best value at the moment with the 7850 at its current price point.
You are wrong, let me reiterate that the extra bandwidth is worth it. You might say it does not matter. Games which struggle to hit 50 fps at 1600p like BF3, Crysis 2, Alan Wake, Witcher 2, Shogun 2 , Batman AC are more relevant than a Portal 2 or Mass effect 3 which even a USD 200 card like GTX 560 Ti can max out at 1600p. I don't look at games which are doing some crazy 100+ fps cause it won't matter which card (HD 7950 or GTX 670) runs that game, you won't be able to tell any difference.
J/King lol, I'm just tired of the same crap being posted over and over (copypastas?) by the same users as much as you are. Sonda is already on my ignore list as is raghu, here's a link to add them if you haven't yet, it'll save you a lot of headache with the same shit thrown at you even when you argue with them:
http://hardforum.com/profile.php?do=ignorelist
Thats your point of view. There are others with a different point of view. Are you telling people purchasing the HD 7900 cards are all making a poor purchasing decision. Do you have a problem with people choosing the HD 7900 cards over the GTX 600 cards ? Do you have a problem at people looking at the HD 7970 overclocking performance as is evident from the hardocp sapphire HD 7970 OC review. Some buyers don't look at stock clocks and prefer to take their chances with OC.
http://www.hardocp.com/article/2012/04/10/sapphire_hd_7970_oc_edition_video_card_review/
Whatever you perspective in terms of perf/watt I can understand. But there are people who are buying these cards for top draw performance. Some prefer to run stock coolers while some do modding like watercooling. Perf/watt is not their consideration. Perf, acoustics and thermals are a concern. Custom designs like Sapphire Dual X are shown to handle well all of the above.