OEM gaming SFF

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matt167

[H]ard|Gawd
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I’ve been looking at all the low profile dual slot options available and the HP G4 EliteDesk and Z2 variants that can take those cards since my favorite Dells cannot.

I was hemming and hawing over it and a 4060 as a 4060 runs like my 6700 XT and it actually has enough power for some 4k gaming.. I still have my 6700 XT gaming rig, just not the urge to use it lately. I don’t game much anymore but when I do the couch is nice. Another play through of RDR2 is what got me thinking about it. And replaying darkest of days. Neither game I can play with the current hardware in my living room htpc

How can I power a 4060 low profile in an OEM system? Is it remotely safe to use a SATA adapter for power? I know the power supply would be on the edge but shouldn’t pull more than 40w off the Sata. Unless there is a power supply that I could mis match and install for GPU power.
 
matt167 said:
I’ve been looking at all the low profile dual slot options available and the HP G4 EliteDesk and Z2 variants that can take those cards since my favorite Dells cannot.

I was hemming and hawing over it and a 4060 as a 4060 runs like my 6700 XT and it actually has enough power for some 4k gaming.. I still have my 6700 XT gaming rig, just not the urge to use it lately. I don’t game much anymore but when I do the couch is nice. Another play through of RDR2 is what got me thinking about it. And replaying darkest of days. Neither game I can play with the current hardware in my living room htpc

How can I power a 4060 low profile in an OEM system? Is it remotely safe to use a SATA adapter for power? I know the power supply would be on the edge but shouldn’t pull more than 40w off the Sata. Unless there is a power supply that I could mis match and install for GPU power.
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Yes, you can. I've done it.

What's your psu's wattage? Some are very underpowered. My g4 has a 250w. It managed it, but, I didn't think the psu could handle it long term. That one is better suited for the 3050 or 1650.

HP makes a 450w psu, I have one in the g5 sff and had a 10700 and 4060 in it. The bigger issue in that style setup is heat. The g5 chassis is smaller than the g4. I had to mod mine to fit the 4060's length. Even gaming that thing throttled. So, pop the top and put a fan on it.

The good news is if you can keep it cool, the LP 4060 runs like a 4060 should.

You can see the sata to pci adapter here.

1711860014082.png

Found the g4.
20230923_193256.jpg
 
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pendragon1 said:
just move your unused tower next to the tv.
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Crossed my mind. But no optical drive, which I use frequently. Still not NVIDIA hardware so darkest of days won’t run and I have a nice Freesync monitor. Also gives the wife and I the ability to multiplayer some games. Steam link could possibly be an option if I were just after RDR2
 
wareyore said:
Yes, you can. I've done it.

What's your psu's wattage? Some are very underpowered. My g4 has a 250w. It managed it, but, I didn't think the psu could handle it long term. That one is better suited for the 3050 or 1650.

HP makes a 450w psu, I have one in the g5 sff and had a 10700 and 4060 in it. The bigger issue in that style setup is heat. The g5 chassis is smaller than the g4. I had to mod mine to fit the 4060's length. Even gaming that thing throttled. So, pop the top and put a fan on it.

The good news is if you can keep it cool, the LP 4060 runs like a 4060 should.

You can see the sata to pci adapter here.

View attachment 644857

Found the g4.
View attachment 644861
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Hmm that’s promising. A 3050 is probably enough power but the 4060 really isn’t terribly expensive being 3050s are commonly marked up to $209
 
If I had to choose between those two I'd get the 4060, hands down. They really gimped the 3050 LP. The 4060 doubles it's performance and you'll have a good gpu moving forward if you change setups. It'll improve with extra cpu power, cooling, psu, etc. It is more expensive and does require the additional power. Worth it, in my opinion.

I moved mine to a different sff case so it could stretch its legs.

20240303_093802.jpg
 
I knew the 3050 LP was a laptop chip and is not much faster than a 1060 in relative performance. It’s still great for 75w

I’ve thought about building a SFF but I wouldn’t know where to start. I require an optical drive for my uses
 
Have you thought about a mini pc? There are some that come with AMD 6600m, like Minisforum HX99G. These pc's can usually game at 1440p at high settings. As far as optical drive, the only thing I can think of, use external drive.
I gave up on optical media more than a decade ago, and by this point so have most people and manufacturers.
 
The HP SFFs usually have an optical drive bay at least that can be added if it’s not there. I use the drive weekly at least as I actually use it to watch DVDs and it runs Plex as well and does all the encoding. My gaming rig hasn’t had an optical drive in a few years, but being I use my livingroom computer as a htpc. I want one onboard
 
matt167 said:
The HP SFFs usually have an optical drive bay at least that can be added if it’s not there. I use the drive weekly at least as I actually use it to watch DVDs and it runs Plex as well and does all the encoding. My gaming rig hasn’t had an optical drive in a few years, but being I use my livingroom computer as a htpc. I want one onboard
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Agreed the OEM sff designs are pretty good cost for performance for that purpose. Just limited due to the proprietary nature of their hardware. That's why I have a couple and keep playing with them. What cpu do you have?

The 4060 build above is in a Silverstone case that has a 5.25 bay. There are many cases designed for htpc use that incorporate space for an optical drive. I chose that particular one because it could fit an atx psu and an matx mb while being thin enough to mount vertically on the underside of a desk. The psu I have is modular but I hate looking for cables so I stuffed them in the drive bay.
1711906554767.png

I have another Silverstone that is larger, takes a full atx MB, etc, that I put a blue ray drive in. It can handle full height gpu's, too, and still fit in an entertainment center. Not an sff by any means, but a good htpc.

Inwin has a couple cases that are similar to the OEM versions, with PSU's. 300w but will handle general duties with a 75w card just fine. Also with an optical slot.
1711907219279.png

You could look at a fancy SSF case, there are some really slick looking modern designs, and get an external drive.

There are a ton of options out there. Puts the personal into PC, for sure.
 
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I’ll be getting something with 8th to 9th gen if prebuilt or Ryzen if I actually build something
 
matt167 said:
I’ll be getting something with 8th to 9th gen if prebuilt or Ryzen if I actually build something
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Ryzen diy for the best performance and customizability. OEM, you can get a G5 with a 10 series i5 for just over $200 now. 8's and 9's cheaper. Good price/performance and standard win 11 compatibility, if that matters.
 
wareyore said:
Agreed the OEM sff designs are pretty good cost for performance for that purpose. Just limited due to the proprietary nature of their hardware. That's why I have a couple and keep playing with them. What cpu do you have?

The 4060 build above is in a Silverstone case that has a 5.25 bay. There are many cases designed for htpc use that incorporate space for an optical drive. I chose that particular one because it could fit an atx psu and an matx mb while being thin enough to mount vertically on the underside of a desk. The psu I have is modular but I hate looking for cables so I stuffed them in the drive bay.
View attachment 644932

I have another Silverstone that is larger, takes a full atx MB, etc, that I put a blue ray drive in. It can handle full height gpu's, too, and still fit in an entertainment center. Not an sff by any means, but a good htpc.

Inwin has a couple cases that are similar to the OEM versions, with PSU's. 300w but will handle general duties with a 75w card just fine. Also with an optical slot.
View attachment 644933

You could look at a fancy SSF case, there are some really slick looking modern designs, and get an external drive.

There are a ton of options out there. Puts the personal into PC, for sure.
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I like silverstone's cases but a lot of their htpc cases really aren't designed to fit full sized GPUs. Looks like a few of their older case designs were updated to fit a larger lp gpu or full sized one on a rizer, though. I still like mine despite the poor gpu location, because it opens up one whole side for ventilation. Just wish there was a vent above the GPU.
 
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The other thought I have is use the motherboard tray and rear panel from a junk MATX case that I have and create a built in computer inside of an entertainment center that my wife wants to build
 
What are the thoughts on a Lenovo Thinkcenter M920 SFF? One is just over $100 on average and it looks like they just might be a great choice with 3x M.2 and 4x Sata ports + the graphics port allowing a dual slot card. There is a 450w GPU with a 6+2 that fits as well. They come with 210w or 265w and are rated up to an I9 9900. But looks like the drive cages that fit over top might need trimming to fit a longer card. But since 2.5” SSDs will fit anywhere double sided tape will stick, that shouldn’t be a problem
 
I'm a big fan of OEM SFF systems. Having said that, there is a limit where they become too small for my purposes, general use and "good enough gaming".

TLDR: looks good.

Trying to find a good pic of the internal layout for that Lenovo, but, it looks like the drive bays overlap the system, as you mentioned. So, for storage, it's looking fine. But, you'll have to mod the cage to fit many of the newer low profile GPU's. Maybe more heavily than is worthwhile. Older LP GPU's may fit ok.

I ran into this with the HP Z2, it needed an inch more for the 4060. Fairly easy mod. And it worked fine.

I have an HP Elitedesk that is similar size wise to the Lenovo and it fits a 1650 but needs modding for a 3050. An A2000 may fit, a 4060 will not. See pic.

You have a 450w GPU? Or PSU? The PSU on these are important considerations, many are underpowered for higher end CPU and GPU's combo's in this range. But, if you adjust your expectations and match up the components they can be a great bang for buck system. Keeping the power requirements to 35w CPU and 75w GPU puts the total power in the butter zone for these ~250w PSU's. Extra power connectors not needed. Having said that, you can go for more, if you have the juice.

Once the wattage is sorted, the next big issue is heat. These little boxes with even 65w CPU's and 70w GPU's generate a bunch of heat and these SFF cases rarely have enough cooling capability. The CPU cooler you have may be sufficient to keep it from throttling. But, putting an axial fan GPU in that case can reduce performance. I couldn't get the heat balanced in a Z2 with a 10700 and 4060. Have to pop the top off and use a fan to dissipate the heat. But a 6700 and 1650 will run flat out, still hot, but no throttling.
 

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The 920s generally seem to come with 210w PSUs but they also came with 265w units, and then there is a 450w unit for another model that fits them, and they have a 6+2 PCIE connector.

The PSU on the other side I think will aid in the airflow of the card. I’ve never had one but it looks promising and I think they may be flying under the radar at this point. Very little on YouTube about them
 
wareyore said:
If I had to choose between those two I'd get the 4060, hands down. They really gimped the 3050 LP. The 4060 doubles it's performance and you'll have a good gpu moving forward if you change setups. It'll improve with extra cpu power, cooling, psu, etc. It is more expensive and does require the additional power. Worth it, in my opinion.

I moved mine to a different sff case so it could stretch its legs.

View attachment 644865
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What is the HSF in that case? TIA
 
Im just about ready to pull the trigger on one of the Lenovos. I found I can almost go 10th gen for the cost of an 8-9th gen HP. Gotta figure out airflow. I’m spoiled in that the Dells have a front 80mm fan slot so airflow is good. I had to add the fan on my 3060. I don’t think the Lenovos have a slot. I have some molex powered 40mm fans though
 
I opted to get an HP Z2 G4 SF. It was about a $5 difference between it and a Lenovo M920S, but I think the HP just looks a little nicer and also has just a little more room for a graphics card. The Lenovo would need even more cutting
 
How matched does the Ram have to be to run in dual channel on one of these HP G4s? It’s only coming with 8gb and Crucial suggests it takes 3200 mhz ram. I only have 2666 MHz spares and I want to get 16 in it. Would a stick of the A Data ram work or should I just buy a 16gb kit? I could potentially get to 32gb though by buying 3 matched sticks and using the one it comes with
 
matt167 said:
How matched does the Ram have to be to run in dual channel on one of these HP G4s? It’s only coming with 8gb and Crucial suggests it takes 3200 mhz ram. I only have 2666 MHz spares and I want to get 16 in it. Would a stick of the A Data ram work or should I just buy a 16gb kit? I could potentially get to 32gb though by buying 3 matched sticks and using the one it comes with
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theyll typically just downclock it all to the lowest speed stick's settings
 
Pretty sure those HP systems will only run at Intel spec speeds. So, don't expect 3200, even if you have a matched set. You may be limited to 2666. So, use a slower kit with better timings, if it matters. Running in dual channel will help a little. Getting to 16G will help in some cases. So, an extra stick with at least 8G is good. Other than that, I don't think you'll notice much difference playing mix/match.
 
I figured as much. Crucial usually has it right. I wanted to make sure it wasn’t low voltage ram or anything special when I checked their site. I don’t run computers with less than 16gb.. might just throw 16gb of matched 2666 in it since I actually have that in spares
 
Forgot to update this. The optiplex this replaces had 16gb of 2666 and it wasn’t matched brand and I never noticed.. I put that ram in the HP and it’s fine. The HP had a single stick of 8gb HP branded 2666.


I’m contemplating going 4060 and running a 2x sata to 8 pin adapter. The psu is 310w so the numbers actually jive. I’m only going to add a couple fans and one 2.5” HDD when I get a chance to fuss with the drive bays.
 
That should work fine. The 4060 is the best LP option, especially at it's price point. Heat is the big challenge with these particular setups.
 
I’m hoping the Fox 3 3.5” cooler I ordered does the trick. I have a chain of 3 40mm fans from an old 5.25 cooler I have. Which I can put in the front I think

I’m going to look into making the fan system thermostatic control so they only run if the case temp hits a certain temperature
 
Will the stock CPU cooler work okay with the 4060s heat emission? It’s a decent tower but the fan on it is indirect. I can remove the tunnel shroud from behind it and install a 60mm fan but I’m not sure if it would affect performance.

I have not bought the card yet but I ordered all the cables and adapters I need. I measured for the card and it appears it will slip right in
 
It'll fit fine in the Z2 G4. Getting heat out of that small box is a challenge. IIRC, the psu expels some and that will be close to the gpu. The cpu cooler will do fine for the cpu. Normal use it'll be fine. But, temper your expectations. If running hard it'll get hot and may throttle.
 
I run at 1080P with it and it’s just a TV so everything will be capped at 60 fps via vsync. That should keep it from overheating as well as giving buttery smooth game play.
 
Well I just bricked my WX4100. I found a bios for a Dell rx 560 which everything looked right ( my Wx4100 is a Dell card as well ) . Even had Samsung ram. Doesn’t work. I bet because of the 4x display ports. The cards are most likely very similar but it gets zero display…. With the HP evidently it shuts down the igpu when a graphics card is slotted in so I can’t use the Igpu to recover it… I don’t have a Dell set up which can do it. And I can’t find my RX 550 which I could slot in the second slot and recover it… I’ll be able to recover it eventually but I think I’ll buy the 4060 now lol
 
That sucks. Will the 4060 go in the HPZ2? It's the best bang for buck in the LP form factor, in my opinion. You might be surprised how much more gpu processing power it will bring to the table. It's crazy fast compared to the other LP options.

The optiplex was a single slot due to the position of the 16x pci slot, right? I have a single slot low profile 1050ti. RX6400 would be about the best single slot LP option, or the 380, if you can find one.
20240428_115756.jpg
 
Yeah the Optiplex has the x16 slot right next to the power supply. The WX4100 was the most power in a single slot without going to a 6400 or breaking the bank on a Quadro that was only marginally faster

I measured the Z2 and I have about 8” of usable length without cutting anything. So the 4060 most likely will work. I have seen multiple photos of 3050 LP that has a mile of clearance
 
matt167 said:
Yeah the Optiplex has the x16 slot right next to the power supply. The WX4100 was the most power in a single slot without going to a 6400 or breaking the bank on a Quadro that was only marginally faster

I measured the Z2 and I have about 8” of usable length without cutting anything. So the 4060 most likely will work. I have seen multiple photos of 3050 LP that has a mile of clearance
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The 4060 fit in my z2 g4 sff fine. No issues. I had to mod the g5 sff. Its shorter.

I moved it to an Antec case that's an oem knockoff, about the size of a g4, which allowed me to use a 12th gen cpu/mb and should be easier to upgrade later.
 
I went ahead and ordered the 4060. Onboard graphics Isn’t happy for some reason. Keeps switching resolution's on anything that uses graphics. Not sure why but I know it won’t be an issue with a new card. Wife couldn’t even watch a dvd ( yes it’s used for that too ) so told me I needed to do something.. perfect. Told her I’d get one that I don’t need to make faster without telling her how much it cost.
 
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